Debate and Discussion

How will Obama's presidencey change America?
ozoneocean at 7:29PM, Oct. 30, 2008
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So what will change? Will things be basically the same, just with a different guy at the top?
-Really, I don't think things will change too much, at least to start with. And it won't be nearly as good as anyone was hoping… Expectations were too high, and there's just too much damage to recover from. Bush Jnr and Co are going to exit stage right leaving the U.S. in rather a dire situation -Perhaps not completely their faults, but they did have a hand in it.

Then again, perhaps it will be surprisingly good, because the bar Bush Jnr has set is rather low… But I doubt it. I think people haven't fully come to terms with how dire things really are yet, but when Obama finally doe come it, then they will… And people will blame their woes and problems on him.

————————
Or McCain will win and this will be silly… But who cares? At this stage it's unlikely.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Kilre at 10:04PM, Oct. 30, 2008
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This might be off topic, but McCain funded terrorists. So stop bringing them up. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/28/mccain-funded-work-of-pal_n_138606.html
PS, ninja edit: read the blog you smudging smudger.

This is in the same vein of thought that since Obama even stood near a terrorist, he must be a terrorist.

McCain's also said he "would rather have a clean government than one where, quote, First Amendment rights are being respected, that has become corrupt. If I had my choice, I’d rather have the clean government.” He's also authored a bill that restricts political speech http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1252 . Yay free speech. What's that? Irony? Why yes!

We're going to stay in Iraq with McCain? Yes, let's continue to have our boys die for our business interests.

Obama wants to give tax benefits to companies that stay in the U.S. McCain would rather see our current system of tax evasion in other countries stay in place.

McCain's going to let the current tax cuts on the richest of the rich stay in place; they're paying less per tax bracket than the rest of us due to the money they're getting back. Awesome. I'd much rather see things back the way they were before the cowboy came into office.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
Ronson at 10:23PM, Oct. 30, 2008
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Let's not go there. I already decided with the last Obama smear merchant to basically just say that they're delusional and wrong. That they get their information from sites and media that is borderline crazy and definitely hard right wing, and that they just don't know what they're talking about. They don't understand politics. They don't understand history. They don't understand anything outside of their own lives really, they just have “feelings” about it.

I will say that it is almost certainly true that the Bush administration is doing everything it can to leave a very difficult situation in the next president's hands. I figure we're looking at a minimum of 2 years in a very serious recession. So whoever the president will be, the first term will be just trying to deal with Bush's mistakes.

If Obama wins, I think he will actually start to work WITH our allies, instead of trying to strong arm them and alienate the United States from them. I think through sheer necessity he will draw the Iraq occupation to a close, and hopefully accomplish something worthwhile in Afghanistan so we can withdraw from there. That's all predicated on Bush not starting a war with Iran or Syria, of course. If he does, Obama will have a whole new shitstorm to deal with and a difficult thing (honorable withdrawal) may become even harder.

He'll also listen to experts, and not pollyanna theoreticians who tell him that their world vision is correct and the world will have to adjust to it. In other words, we'll be back to the “reality based community”.

Do I think everyone's life will get better overnight? No, but he's talking about the things that will make it better - a motivated citizenry and growth of the middle class. What he does will depend on shrewd diplomacy and a cordial relationship with the Republicans.

Most of all, Obama promises a change of tone and an obedience to the Constitution. Something the war criminals in the Bush Administration have ignored for much too long.

Personally, I hope that the new congress persues Bush and impeaches him so that future presidents might think long and hard before incarcerating, murdering and torturing innocent people. But as much as I dream of a just America, I don't think it'll go that far. There is too much entrenched power.

Right now I'll be satisfied to have a presidential administration that doesn't seem to be constantly undermining American interests like the Bush administration has done for so long.

I guess my hope is just that America's standing in the world improves, and that he'll be able to grow the middle class in spite of the destruction from the Bush administration.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Kilre at 10:23PM, Oct. 30, 2008
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Hmm… I see…
A republican blog.

Shouldnt listen to everything you see on the internet, boyo, especially when it is a republican. They tend to smudge the truth.

So I've read. And your reaction is just as I feared it would be. Complete denial.

I wonder how Faux News is taking it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
Ronson at 10:31PM, Oct. 30, 2008
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Kilre
I wonder how Faux News is taking it.

Fox news will love it! They'll no longer have to cover for the Criminal President Bush, and they'll be able to distort to unrecognizablility every Obama administrative action.

Imagine their take on the Clinton administration on steroids.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Kilre at 10:38PM, Oct. 30, 2008
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Ronson
Kilre
I wonder how Faux News is taking it.

Fox news will love it! They'll no longer have to cover for the Criminal President Bush, and they'll be able to distort to unrecognizablility every Obama administrative action.

Imagine their take on the Clinton administration on steroids.

Wrong one, I'm afraid.

The reference to McCain's ties to Rashid Khalidi. I just can't wait for the shitstorm of irony that's coming.

And I can only hope the Daily Show will have some good material either way.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
6497315 at 11:21PM, Oct. 30, 2008
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^It's like you never even saw me! sorry, didnt like what I posted earlier.^

Anyways, in order to fully appreciate Obama's not-ready-to-be-presidentness, you have to live in Illinois, Obama's good ol' state.

50% of all historical sites closed, 80% of historical workers laid off, deep backruptcy, raising the toll road taxes, and the highest income tax in the U.S! You may say this is the work of the evil governer, Rod Blagojevich , but does Obama have no word in the works of the state? He is the senator, you know.
“WHAT IS THIS MICKEY MOUSE SH*T?!”- R. Lee Ermey
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:44AM
DAJB at 1:00AM, Oct. 31, 2008
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I suspect his presidency could well be a disaster but inspite of anything he does, not because of his actions.

Whoever becomes the next president, he's going to inherit a couple of wars from which it's going to be very difficult to withdraw, increasing hostility from a disillusioned Russia and a world economy in meltdown. If he's very, very lucky he might earn kudos for his handling of those problems but - the media and the electorate being as fickle as they are - I doubt it will be too long before he's being held responsible for them.

In times of hardship, people like to blame the guy at the top, not the guy who used to be at the top!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
ozoneocean at 2:49AM, Oct. 31, 2008
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That might be so DAJB… But I tend to think the American media is a little bit more… what's the word? Um… submissive? respectful? nooo… Deferential I think.

Yeah, that'll do. A little bit more deferential in their treatment of the guy at the top in the U.S. even if they hate him. Unlike the British press which is like a pit bull towards everyone and everything without exception all the time.
So they'll blame him for Bush Jnr's troubles and anything new he does will also be blamed for causing the existing troubles, but I think they'll always retain some respect for him while doing so… At least some of them will. lol!
Some still do for Bush Jnr.

He might do better with Russia, it depends. A great deal of Russia's “hostility” is mostly to do with them being deliberately encircled and emasculated by the U.S. lead N.A.T.O. If Obama's presidency isn't so hot on muscular abrasive foreign policy as the current administration, we might see a thaw in the East, especially if he's a little more reluctant to get into bed with the modern right-wing AXIS of Sarkozy, Merkel, and Berlusconi, along with their toadying neuvo-E.U. members from Eastern Europe looking to latch onto whatever bigger power they feel will advance them more.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Kilre at 8:08AM, Oct. 31, 2008
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^It's like you never even saw me! sorry, didnt like what I posted earlier.^
I saw and understood everything you said. I'm sorry you feel that way, but McCain has the same problems. Calling someone a terrorist simply because he either spoke at a party in someone's benefit or served on some committee with them somewhere? I thought it took more than that; get your head out of Fox News' ass. McCain donated $400,000 to Rashid's organization. By your logic that must make him a terrorist.

Fail logic. Don't bring that up again if you want me to take you seriously.




6497315
Anyways, in order to fully appreciate Obama's not-ready-to-be-presidentness, you have to live in Illinois, Obama's good ol' state.

50% of all historical sites closed, 80% of historical workers laid off, deep backruptcy, raising the toll road taxes, and the highest income tax in the U.S! You may say this is the work of the evil governer, Rod Blagojevich , but does Obama have no word in the works of the state? He is the senator, you know.

U.S. senators don't have the responsibility for their home state's governing. That's the state government's job. U.S. senators just look pretty and say things are good or bad and pass laws at the national level. You want something to change fix your state's government.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
NickGuy at 11:26AM, Oct. 31, 2008
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it wont, really. people will still kill and rape each other. no one will listen to the law.

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
SarahN at 12:35PM, Oct. 31, 2008
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NickGuy
it wont, really. people will still kill and rape each other. no one will listen to the law.

Bzuhh? Well I don't think either candidate has a “no more death and rape. EVER.” promise.

I don't have my expectations too high with Obama, things are already a mess as many have said. The main reasons I'm voting for Obama is because I don't want a buddy of Bush in there, and the troops will actually be pulled out of Iraq with Obama. Or at least I hope he keeps that promise. =/ Don't see why he wouldn't…

Why do I have a horrible feeling McCain is going to win?

-Sorry I didn't exactly answer/debate the question. Basically I think “I don't know. Probably will be ‘meh’.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:23PM
NickGuy at 1:08PM, Oct. 31, 2008
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NickGuy
it wont, really. people will still kill and rape each other. no one will listen to the law.

Bzuhh? Well I don't think either candidate has a “no more death and rape. EVER.” promise.



well that would sure as hell get me to vote for them. my answer was sarcastic, but kinda true. in the overall view, its just four years. america wont be overrun and ruled by china in that timespan, so im not too worried.

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
“Kung Fu Komix is…so awesome” -threeeyeswurm
“Kung Fu Komix is..told with all the stupid exuberance of the genre it parodies” -The Real Macabre
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
StaceyMontgomery at 8:55PM, Oct. 31, 2008
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ozoneocean
So what will change? Will things be basically the same, just with a different guy at the top?


Obama as president won't change anything - it will be a way that the electorate responds to changes that are already underway.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
cartoonprofessor at 10:45PM, Oct. 31, 2008
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Why do I have a horrible feeling McCain is going to win?

Maybe because Dibold (the company that owns and builds the voting machines) is republican.

I don't know how true this is (being an aussie and all) but I read numerous reports after the last election of huge discrepancies between who people said they were going to vote for on their way into the booths and who they (according to the machines) actually voted for.

This discrepancies were notable to have only occurred at booths where the only option was to vote electronically with a Dibold machine.

Anyone else hear about this?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:36AM
kyupol at 10:54PM, Oct. 31, 2008
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I'm scared of Obama.

Because he is a good talker and has legions of fanatical followers. A recipe for a charismatic commie dictator? Hmmm… he isnt even president and look what he's doing…

http://governor.mo.gov/cgi-bin/coranto/viewnews.cgi?id=EkkkVFulkpOzXqGMaj&style=Default+News+Style&tmpl=newsitem


As for him being “anti-war”, I doubt it:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1027578.html

I also don't like his stance on the environment:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=alHWVvGnkcd4&refer=canada


——-
Btw I'm no McCain supporter either. Don't get me wrong and start calling me a bush neocon.

I don't like someone who aspires to be a dictator:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cMnpCZfMJ8

And who is an obvious warfreak who sings about bombing Iran. lol!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg




NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
ozoneocean at 1:49AM, Nov. 1, 2008
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kyupol
links
Man… Those links to stuff about Obama are pretty ordinary. I don't see too many problems there. I'm sure those positions will change a bit when the hard realities of life in office meet those soft airy fairy ideas, he'll see what a paper tiger Iran really is for a start. The stuff about Iran is funny in that they'd like to “prevent a second holocaust” by basically making a “second holocaust” IN Iran of Iranians. Real smart that one. But as I say, things change and not even Ahmadinejad is likely to stay in power too much longer thankfully.

And those things about McCain are ]unfair and WAY out of context. If anything, they show him to be more human and likeable than a mad war freak with aspirations of being a dictator. :P
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
lothar at 3:13AM, Nov. 1, 2008
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my only major thing i disagree with Obama on is Ethanol !
he supports using corn to make ethanol .
i can see why he supports the ethanol industry , to get votes from those greedy farmers . hopefully he changes his position on it.
Ethanol is INSANE , it's just about the most immoral and illogical agricultural policy ever . it's causing more severe food shortages and hunger all over the world , just so people can drive cars and corn farmers can get rich .
but i would still vote for him , if i was gunna vote , but i'm not
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
bravo1102 at 6:58AM, Nov. 1, 2008
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It's now within the margin of error yet again! If Obama is so great and McCain evil incarnate why isn't the American public flocking to Obama?

If McCain the war Hero and so wonderfully experienced and God's gift to government versus the terrorist's friend Obama why hasn't McCain pulled ahead?

Obama is saying a lot of things that FDR said running against Hoover. (Hearing the sound bites of the two next to each other was amazing)
Obama with have both houses of Congress possibly with a fillabuster proof majority.

1. Out of Iraq. Considering that the exit plan is already in place, big deal. But… back to Afganistan. Afganistan is the most unwinnable place in the world. No Western power has ever come close to a victory there.

2. Overhaul of domestic economic policy. See taxes go up. How that affects the economy is anyone's guess. Laffer says it'll throw us into another Great Depression. His name says it all.

3. Additional social programs. Good, bad or indifferent? The Great Society didn't work. Will Obama's programs? America's attempts at socialized healthcare have been a disaster. I'd like to see it enacted but I don't trust the US government to run it right. Great intentions but horrible executions.

4. Probably another backlash mid-term election that gives the two houses of Congress back to the Republicans. Obama could be hamstrung like Clinton.

With the election so tight, whoever wins will probably have to deal with a Congress that is the other party as the voters will be fickle. Who will be better at reaching across the aisle? Who will be better at reaching out to potential allies?

Holy shit, a lot points to Obama being a successful president. After G.W. Bush anything would look better except maybe Millard Filmore or Calvin Coolidge.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Ronson at 7:03AM, Nov. 1, 2008
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It isn't GREEDY farmers, it's just farmers who want to get a good buck for what they do. Of course, there are very few independently operated farms anymore, but even the ones who work for the corporate farms want to know they'll have a job.

It's the same problem with the military industrial complex. Generally, Americans are against war, but if a town's main source of income is a weapons plane then they usually do better when there's a war.

I'd like some sanity put back into our system, but I don't think anyone should expect Obama to do more than give our country a bit more direction.

As for Obama's “fanatical” followers - I'm sick of hearing about that. In general, the Obama supporters I talk to are not wild eyed cult members. They have hope that Obama can undo some of the damage of the Bush administration, that's all.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Hawk at 9:48AM, Nov. 1, 2008
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lothar
Ethanol is INSANE , it's just about the most immoral and illogical agricultural policy ever . it's causing more severe food shortages and hunger all over the world , just so people can drive cars and corn farmers can get rich .
but i would still vote for him , if i was gunna vote , but i'm not

One of my friends is an intern working for Toyota in Ohio. He says they're actually working on some pretty incredible alternate fuel sources, many of which he can't mention, but oil companies have been buying off politicians and blocking them every step of the way. According to him, they let ethanol slip by because it's such a poor fuel solution and distracts people from anything that would actually pose a threat to oil.

So yeah, I'm no fan of ethanol either.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
cartoonprofessor at 6:07PM, Nov. 1, 2008
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bravo1102
After G.W. Bush anything would look better except maybe Millard Filmore or Calvin Coolidge.
After Dubbya Elmo would look better
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:36AM
mike_mcpeeper at 8:52PM, Nov. 1, 2008
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Hopefully a lot will change. But we all know in the span of four years that won't happen. Especially with the eight years of damage that our-soon-to-be-previous president George W. Bush has done, it will take at least double the time he'll have in office to start putting things right. I mean, with the economy in its current state, I doubt any of the two candidates would be able to put into action any kind of solution because of a lack of money to do so. Its inevitable that the debt this country has dug itself into will outlive the country itself. In the words of most actors in B-Movies about the Apocalypse, “God help us, God help us all!” But we all know that he won't.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:01PM
mike_mcpeeper at 8:54PM, Nov. 1, 2008
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^^^
This is of course excluding the hopeful immediate withdrawal from Iraq.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:01PM
bravo1102 at 2:46PM, Nov. 2, 2008
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mike_mcpeeper
“God help us, God help us all!” But we all know that he won't.

As Adams said in 1776. “God help us.”
To which Franklin replied “If He doesn't no one else will.”



cartoonprofessor
After Dubbya Elmo would look better

Elmo would certainly give better speeches with less gaffes. Count Count as Sec'y of the Treasury? Big Bird as Sec'y of State? Grover as VP. Much better than the past 8 years.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
ozoneocean at 5:31PM, Nov. 2, 2008
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Elmo as pres and Grover as VP. No way! The other way around surely. Elmo's a damn johnny come lately kiddy version of Grover, he sucks.

But anyway, If Obama wins when they finally finish counting the votes, whenever that will be (sometime long after Tuesday I suspect), how will America react? It'd be interesting to see what the racialists do. :)
But my fave thing that I hope for will be a little bit of a cooling on the relationship with all those fascist bastards in N.A.T.O. at the moment that love war so much; Sarkozy, Merkel, Berlusconi…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Hawk at 8:50PM, Nov. 2, 2008
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ozoneocean
It'd be interesting to see what the racialists do. :)

I wonder that, too. A few nights ago I was working on my comic and CNN was playing in the background. They were making a huge deal about how race comes into play, and how many of the undecided people might be “decided”, because they were racist and weren't going to vote for a black person anyway. The whole conversation and assumed racism ticked me off enough to make me get up and change the channel. There is no way that there are enough racist undecided people cement a victory for McCain.

I don't think this is going down like the last two elections. At least I hope not. Here's hoping for a fair vote and no sore losers this time around.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
ozoneocean at 10:17PM, Nov. 2, 2008
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Hawk
I don't think this is going down like the last two elections. At least I hope not. Here's hoping for a fair vote and no sore losers this time around.
Funny when you think about it that way. With the last two elections in the U.S. the vote was almost perfectly even, so Bush Jnr has never been a popular guy, even before he was elected. If Obama does win, with any sort of a decent margin, that'll mean he'll have a bigger “mandate” than Jnr ever had.

Or it'll be even like before…

Or It'll be so even McCain will sneak through with the help of those few racialists you were talking about. Because then they would definitely come into play ;)
And today's McCain, unlike the honourable man he used to be, will embrace that constituency and welcome their vote as warmly as any other if it'll help him win. To his great shame he's proven himself without much grace, poise, or honour as things have scrambled towards the end. He's lost much of my respect and I don't think he'll ever regain the position he once had in people's eyes as a statesmanlike figure.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
lothar at 12:22AM, Nov. 3, 2008
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Hawk
There is no way that there are enough racist undecided people cement a victory for McCain.

i agree , But it is the perfect excuse for a huge dsscrepency between the recent polls and whatever numbers DIEBOLD decides to hand out to mccain

just why is the media ,making such a big deal about this supposed racism anyway ? could it be they are preparing us for a surprise mccain upset ?

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
ozoneocean at 5:26AM, Nov. 3, 2008
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Good point Lothar… shades of the Onion, but hopefully it doesn't come to pass that way.
I just heard some woman being interviewed on the BBC, and when asked why she didn't like Obama she replied very seriously: “I believe he's a Socialist and a Marxist.”
WTF? That sort of idiocy is almost as bad as racialism. Obama is to the right of every single left leaning leader in the world. Jebus. The things he supports and stands for are actually on a par with most centre conservative governments throughout Europe.

That seems to indicate that the next republican leader will have to be to the right of General Franco in order to get people's vote…

If that's the case, hopefully Obama will get elected and politics in the U.S. will move more to the centre; the REAL centre… Not the traditional right of centre it usually defaults to.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM

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