Debate and Discussion

How will Obama's presidencey change America?
bravo1102 at 8:25AM, Nov. 3, 2008
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The woman obviously listens to talk radio. So do I, have to know what the enemy is thinking. ;) Mark Levin among others have been painting Obama as a Marxist after his remarks to Joe the Plumber. Spread the wealth around, “from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs.” OMG Obama's a commie! Bill Ayers is a commie! So Obama must be a commie! Then there is Rev. Wright. Imagine being a middle-American Chirstian and hearing anything about either. Rush, Hannity and Levin say it enough and *boom* it must be true after all they speak for me, not the liberal drive-by media!

Racism (say racialism in the US and you get blank stares) may be a factor as as much as a third of Americans have it in the back of their minds especially in areas of the nation where they have no personal exposure to other colors of people and just the media's interpretation (Not news channels. e.g. My Grandmother got her ideas about blacks from sitcoms and just the negative examples)

Millenial Christians have a dark secret too. A lot of what they believe and what their Born-again Chirstian ministers say is inspired by White Supremecists and Neo-nazis (chronicled by Richard Abanes among others) Is it such a leap of logic?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Ronson at 5:34PM, Nov. 3, 2008
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Wasn't Marx about “sharing the wealth” not “spreading it”? Isn't that a huge difference?

Spreading wealth is just what taxes do. It allows more people to have more an equitable amount of jingle in their pockets while the necessary investments are made to keep our country running.

Sharing would be like trying to take all the wealth and then splitting it up equally - something no one is suggesting.

But I guess that's too hard to explain to Republitards.

Republitards believe that there should be no taxes, and that if there are taxes, everyone should pay the same amount regardless of income. So a single mother making $15,000 should pay the same taxes as a billionaire. Even though the billionaire reaps more reward from the system.

Bleh. One more day…
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
humorman at 9:21PM, Nov. 3, 2008
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ozoneocean
It'd be interesting to see what the racialists do.

Racialists? There's no such thing as a “racialist” here in America. As you can see in this video, you'll see that race has no influence to the average American citizen. Notice how the majority of the voters are democrats!


Billy vs. Tree – The epic struggle of boy versus tree.
Sonic Colores – It looks like it's going to be a good game because I love how the way it makes me grow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:51PM
mike_mcpeeper at 4:47AM, Nov. 4, 2008
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humorman
Racialists? There's no such thing as a “racialist” here in America. As you can see in this video, you'll see that race has no influence to the average American citizen.

I don't know how that statement could be any more wrong. Many people are democrats but in places like the Bible belt there are AVERAGE people who's basic reason for not voting for him is because he's HALF black. Trust me, I've met some of these people.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:01PM
humorman at 7:47AM, Nov. 4, 2008
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humorman
Racialists? There's no such thing as a “racialist” here in America. As you can see in this video, you'll see that race has no influence to the average American citizen.

I don't know how that statement could be any more wrong. Many people are democrats but in places like the Bible belt there are AVERAGE people who's basic reason for not voting for him is because he's HALF black. Trust me, I've met some of these people.

You didn't even try to watch the video.

Billy vs. Tree – The epic struggle of boy versus tree.
Sonic Colores – It looks like it's going to be a good game because I love how the way it makes me grow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:51PM
Kilre at 11:40AM, Nov. 4, 2008
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mike_mcpeeper
humorman
Racialists? There's no such thing as a “racialist” here in America. As you can see in this video, you'll see that race has no influence to the average American citizen.

I don't know how that statement could be any more wrong. Many people are democrats but in places like the Bible belt there are AVERAGE people who's basic reason for not voting for him is because he's HALF black. Trust me, I've met some of these people.

Sometimes, irony strikes when you least expect it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
JustNoPoint at 3:12PM, Nov. 4, 2008
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Facts about Obama I discovered at work over the last month.

He's a socialist

He will take all of my money and give it to people that won't work for themselves.

His hero is a terrorist that stated he wished more than just the towers were hit. (It's in Obama's book)

The only reason Obama is going to win is because he bought his way and the media is paid off.

He will take away everyone's guns. Only criminals will have them.

After he is elected he will be assassinated or attempted to be assassinated. If he lives he'll declare himself “anti-Christ

He's going to change the US national anthem to a Muslim prayer and force everyone to convert.

Their should be a secession again and the Confederacy should easily beat the liberal North that would not fight back.
———————————

These people are dead serious about all this stuff. It's crazy. I don't keep up with the media much. I don't really like the things they want to show and how they want you to see it. But this is ridiculous….
How can people really be this stupid? The worst I think of McCain is ”Oh God, another Bush" I don't spout this type of stuff.

I honestly never thought Arkansas was that bad on racism until this. Guess people are showing their true colors (is that a pun?)
Maybe there is some truth in some of that they said. But the more extreme stuff is absurd. I almost fear Obama being elected just because of the people like this. :-\

Here are 2 kinda funny links to go with the topic you may enjoy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/Godrockdj/Obama/obamamccainclintonpokemkl8.gif

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1888086
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
Ronson at 9:32PM, Nov. 4, 2008
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JustNoPoint
Facts about Obama I discovered at work over the last month.

Well, the new thing you learned today is that he is now President Elect of The United States of America.

Time before Republitards who insisted on blind obedience for the President when it was one of their guys but start sliming the new guy? Oh hell, I'm sure it's already happened.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Kohdok at 11:23PM, Nov. 4, 2008
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Ronson
Well, the new thing you learned today is that he is now President Elect of The United States of America.

Time before Republitards who insisted on blind obedience for the President when it was one of their guys but start sliming the new guy? Oh hell, I'm sure it's already happened.

Hey, at least McCain resigned gracefully. I watched his concession speech and he managed to turn the boos from his crowd towards Obama into cheers by the end with great aplomb. It was relieving to watch seeing as the endings of the previous two elections were rather ugly. I think this quick release of tension will be healthy for party relations, as I think a lot of us have had our fill of politics for a while.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
ozoneocean at 11:50PM, Nov. 4, 2008
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Kohdok
Hey, at least McCain resigned gracefully.
It's good that he got that grace BACK after losing it quite disgracefully towards the end of the campaign with increasingly nasty and crazy accusations directed toward his opponent… ;)

This time there's a lot less doubt as to the result.
——————

But generally, as per the subject of the discussion, it'll be interesting to see what changes. …Whenever he finally does become president. How long now? 70 days or something?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Willicus at 12:31AM, Nov. 5, 2008
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I'm glad I'm not a part of it, and so I'm not expected to have an opinion on it.
If any Americans are looking to hunker down in Canada for a while, I can pull out the fouton.
Not really.
In fact, I think anyone who's planning on it is highly unpatriotic and insecure. But, there are people who are doing it anyways.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:50PM
bravo1102 at 9:47AM, Nov. 5, 2008
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America might become a better place. We've had two decades of moderates or Conservatives about time we got a true Liberal back in office. Thanks to all around here (especially Ronson) who got me to get back to my core beliefs.

It will be a change. Free speech on the airwaves will be curtailed with the so called “Fairness Doctrine”.

Extremist, survivalist militia types will probably make a big come-back. I wonder how many more assassination attempts there will be? I really have to start reading the white-supremecist websites again. It should be very entertaining as to how these twits twist it.

The World is already over! The White European is to be eradicated once and for all! Hunker down in that bunker and get out the guns to protect our rights as white Americans! lol!
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Ronson at 6:04PM, Nov. 5, 2008
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bravo1102
America might become a better place. We've had two decades of moderates or Conservatives about time we got a true Liberal back in office. Thanks to all around here (especially Ronson) who got me to get back to my core beliefs.

It will be a change. Free speech on the airwaves will be curtailed with the so called “Fairness Doctrine”.

Extremist, survivalist militia types will probably make a big come-back. I wonder how many more assassination attempts there will be? I really have to start reading the white-supremecist websites again. It should be very entertaining as to how these twits twist it.

The World is already over! The White European is to be eradicated once and for all! Hunker down in that bunker and get out the guns to protect our rights as white Americans! lol!

The fairness doctrine is not going to come up even once in the first term of the Obama administration, and I'd be surprised if it came up in the second. If it did, it would suffer a quick defeat. Like it or not, the fairness doctrine is impossible to enforce with today's media.

Obama isn't liberal. He has some liberal ideas, but ultimately he's a Goldwater style Republican. This country has moved so far to the right that people consider his moderate positions to be liberal now. If you want to see liberal, look at Dennis Kucinich.

You may be right about the militias, but I think there won't be any serious attempts on Obama. He's part of the system, and it's only when you seek to overturn the system that you start becoming a target.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Hawk at 6:17PM, Nov. 5, 2008
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Ronson
Time before Republitards who insisted on blind obedience for the President when it was one of their guys but start sliming the new guy? Oh hell, I'm sure it's already happened.

You know what, Ronson? I'm sorry to say this, but I've met people with half your intelligence who still have a better outlook on their fellow Americans.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Ronson at 4:06AM, Nov. 6, 2008
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Hawk
Ronson
Time before Republitards who insisted on blind obedience for the President when it was one of their guys but start sliming the new guy? Oh hell, I'm sure it's already happened.

You know what, Ronson? I'm sorry to say this, but I've met people with half your intelligence who still have a better outlook on their fellow Americans.

This has no relation to my fellow Americans. This is in regards to the hateful, spiteful, racist right wing pundits and radio hacks. You know the list: Limbaugh, Hannity, Malkin, etc.

I'd like to see all the right wing and left wing extremists out of our media.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Hawk at 9:14AM, Nov. 6, 2008
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Okay, sorry… just thought you were calling all republicans “retarded”. Yeah, we could use less pundits on either side. They've not only made it harder to tolerate this election, but they have more than often muddied the water to make voters' decisions more difficult.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
bravo1102 at 10:23AM, Nov. 6, 2008
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Ronson I beg to disagree but Obama is a classic liberal in the mold going back to 19th Century Progressives to the New Dealers etc. At least according to the accepted definitions accepted by historians of the US politcal process and I ain't talking about wikipedia. (Liberalism and its Challengers, The Lion and the Fox, Truman, classroom notes US II,(professors Gilette and O'Neil) Lies my Teacher told Me, Howard Zinsser, Arthur Schlesinger, etc)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
dueeast at 12:51PM, Nov. 6, 2008
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You know, once upon a time, I would have defended Limbaugh, Hannity, Malkin and the like but no more. And yes, there are plenty of left wing extremist pundits to go around, too. Ever since I stopped listening to talk radio and got more involved in making webcomics, I feel that I look at them through a different lens than I used to. I got tired of reading Michelle's blog, too, it just got a little too off the chain for me.

Hmmmmm, more and more, we seem to be agreeing, Ronson…

…what's UP with that?? lol!

Ronson
I'd like to see all the right wing and left wing extremists out of our media.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
6497315 at 5:03PM, Nov. 6, 2008
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OH NO! BARRACK HUSSEIN HAS BEEN ELECTED PRESIDENT!!!



Haha, I know it's too late to argue about it now.
I guess it is now time for me to go back into hibernation about my political beliefs (Since I now know I know jack squat about the difference between state and legislative powers.)

But I feel I should warn you all. Obama will more than likely never go as “left” as you want. I mean, sure, he will go left, but not to the extreme that the democrats demand of him. The change you need isnt going to come from just one man, you know.

But either way, I'm sure that Obama's presidency isnt going to hurt any of us that much. Just as long as he doesnt tax my small business to Hell, like democratic heavy wieghts tend to do, I am content.


Sorry if I offended anybody and I apologize if I sounded completely retarded for my idiotic post (honestly, I only care about Illinois politics. Anything outside of Illinois I dont know or care about.)
“WHAT IS THIS MICKEY MOUSE SH*T?!”- R. Lee Ermey
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:44AM
Ronson at 5:41PM, Nov. 6, 2008
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bravo1102
Ronson I beg to disagree but Obama is a classic liberal in the mold going back to 19th Century Progressives to the New Dealers etc. At least according to the accepted definitions accepted by historians of the US politcal process and I ain't talking about wikipedia. (Liberalism and its Challengers, The Lion and the Fox, Truman, classroom notes US II,(professors Gilette and O'Neil) Lies my Teacher told Me, Howard Zinsser, Arthur Schlesinger, etc)

Hey, if he is I'm glad for it. But he isn't so far as any of the policies I've heard him talk about. He certainly thinks that citizens have responsibilities towards eachother, and that growing the middle class is the only path to economic growth - but that's a moderate conservative view from the late 60's to early 70's.

Of course, definitions shift as the parties shift. But I just don't see him as liberal. Progressive, maybe, but not liberal as I am accustomed to hear it described. We should discuss each ideology in different threads. Now that the election is over, that could be pretty interesting.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
kyupol at 11:43AM, Nov. 11, 2008
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Obama =

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iRxZox4GFoIweckPDP1oRhKBlHOwD94CCDU00

“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set,” Obama said in July. “We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

Obama likes to disarm the public and create a secret police force. Hmmm…

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
Ronson at 4:10PM, Nov. 11, 2008
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Nothing you cited or quoted reflects your conclusions. Bizarre.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
bravo1102 at 5:09PM, Nov. 11, 2008
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Now the probelm I have with this civilian defence force is don't we already have that? Wouldn't it be redundant? Aren't the Police, State Police, Federal Marshalls, FBI all part of that or is he asking for a civilian paramilitary group like the Iranian Republican Guard? Or would it be a return to a true 100% all adult state militias (but on a federal level) like that which existed in the USA before the National Defence act of 1903? Maybe a WPA type group?

Come on, one off the cuff remark doesn't prove anything.

The checks and balances of the US government are designed to prevent a president taking a nation too far one way or another. Within the constraints of the US Constitution Obama can't go as left (or as right) as one would like him to. Look at the presidentcy of the great Conservative Icon Ronald Reagan, he couldn't go as right as he wanted. Even with the Congress supporting Obama, will they really rubberstamp everything he says? Pelosi et al. ,because of the system, could rein him in.

That is how the US government was designed to work. An executive with a cabinet suggesting legislation for Congress to consider under the watchful eye of the Federal Court System. The pundits can say what they will but the US government is always one of compromise which always skews it to the middle. Look at the elections of 1932, 1980 for example as well as the great watershed 1800 for how they changed the USA.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
himynameischris at 11:22PM, Nov. 11, 2008
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I feel Obama's Presidency will not completely reform the US, but it will take us in a different direction. A lot of morons like to say that we are all going to die, or we are screwed because our president is African American. How can anyone say the dumb things they say about him, and forget about what Bush has done to us? During the entire campaign and before the election I supported Obama. I was open to people that liked McCain, but I wanted to know why. The answers I got were “Obama is a terrorist,” or, “Obama is black, and I'm racist.” This usually led to arguments. I got no sort of response with what they liked about McCain, or anything. Anyways, Obama will help start leading us out of the hole we are in. He has great plans for us, but it will only get worse before it gets better. Just give it time this won't be anything like Bush's presidency, hopefully. Oh, and for the people saying they want to move because Obama won. I will help you pack. I'll never understand why nobody was going to leave when Bush got elected, especially his second time…
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
himynameischris at 11:37PM, Nov. 11, 2008
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JustNoPoint
Facts about Obama I discovered at work over the last month.

He's a socialist

He will take all of my money and give it to people that won't work for themselves.

His hero is a terrorist that stated he wished more than just the towers were hit. (It's in Obama's book)

The only reason Obama is going to win is because he bought his way and the media is paid off.

He will take away everyone's guns. Only criminals will have them.

After he is elected he will be assassinated or attempted to be assassinated. If he lives he'll declare himself “anti-Christ

He's going to change the US national anthem to a Muslim prayer and force everyone to convert.

Their should be a secession again and the Confederacy should easily beat the liberal North that would not fight back.
———————————

These people are dead serious about all this stuff. It's crazy. I don't keep up with the media much. I don't really like the things they want to show and how they want you to see it. But this is ridiculous….
How can people really be this stupid? The worst I think of McCain is ”Oh God, another Bush" I don't spout this type of stuff.

I honestly never thought Arkansas was that bad on racism until this. Guess people are showing their true colors (is that a pun?)
Maybe there is some truth in some of that they said. But the more extreme stuff is absurd. I almost fear Obama being elected just because of the people like this. :-\

Here are 2 kinda funny links to go with the topic you may enjoy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/Godrockdj/Obama/obamamccainclintonpokemkl8.gif

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1888086

People are idiots. I am only 15, and I have learned this. lol So many people with their false accusations about a guy they probably know nothing about. If he was Asian he would have gotten “He is going to feed all of us Cats everyday,” and, “He will blow up our entire country with a nuke he has stored away somewhere.” The only thing I have said about McCain is the same as you said he is just another Bush. People need to pay attention to facts and not silly opinions about people.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
rufus_edge at 7:15PM, Nov. 13, 2008
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bravo1102
Now the probelm I have with this civilian defence force is don't we already have that? Wouldn't it be redundant? Aren't the Police, State Police, Federal Marshalls, FBI all part of that or is he asking for a civilian paramilitary group like the Iranian Republican Guard? Or would it be a return to a true 100% all adult state militias (but on a federal level) like that which existed in the USA before the National Defence act of 1903? Maybe a WPA type group?

Come on, one off the cuff remark doesn't prove anything.

Are you saying that it would be a problem if this were more than “one off the cuff remark”?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
ozoneocean at 8:54PM, Nov. 13, 2008
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bravo1102
Now the probelm I have with this civilian defence force is don't we already have that? Wouldn't it be redundant? Aren't the Police, State Police, Federal Marshalls, FBI all part of that or is he asking for a civilian paramilitary group like the Iranian Republican Guard? Or would it be a return to a true 100% all adult state militias (but on a federal level) like that which existed in the USA before the National Defence act of 1903? Maybe a WPA type group?

Come on, one off the cuff remark doesn't prove anything.

Context is everything. From what I remember of the vague guff, piss and wind that was blowing around at the time, this would concern terrorists. :(

So what he'd have been referring to would be an imaginary idea of s big police force/task force type group that'd be domestic and international.

Of course that's part of a throwaway line. There could be some theories or ideas about it that people were discussing at the time that caused him to produce the throwaway line, but that's all it was.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
rufus_edge at 4:14AM, Nov. 14, 2008
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That isn't context.
This is:

Youtube also has the entire 25+ minute speech.

It was part of a campaign speech, it was rehearsed, and he was serious about it. He said it in the middle of a list of things he hopes to do as president. Everyone applauded the comment.

This is from his website change.gov:
America Serves
Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school, and 100 hours of community service in college every year.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
ozoneocean at 5:21AM, Nov. 14, 2008
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Exactly as I said Rufus, although you might define throwaway differently. ;)

I'd love to see him try something like that idea in the U.S. and watch it fail so hard it'd never get up again lol!
That sort of thing works with certain audiences, it depends on who you're trying to appeal to really, politicians come out with all sorts of crap. Watch it evaporate when gets into office.

Or maybe he will try it and then you can watch it fail. :)

As bravo says- checks and balances. But something like that in the U.S. is only fantasy anyway. It couldn't work there. Not these days.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
rufus_edge at 7:35AM, Nov. 14, 2008
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Why would he bring it up at all if it's such a unrealistic and redundant idea?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM

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