Debate and Discussion

HPV or not to HPV---Sorry, what's the question?
maritalbliss at 8:26PM, May 19, 2007
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My thoughts on the HPV vaccine that the government is tryin' to inject the teenage female populace with:

I don't have kids right now and I am too old for this to effect me…But, I really want your thoughts.

How creepy it seems to me and too new for me to endorse such a mass innoculation. My imagination is too sci-fi in nature and I am imagining a group of pasty old white men in a room plannin' to make teenage girls more docile and easy to control with this new “miracle” preventive “cure?” But, naawww—that's just silly, right?

It's a hot topic in Texas right now. (Where I hang my hat.) For those not aware:
Many states are trying to require mandatory vaccinations of pre-teen girls against the human papilloma virus (HPV), a common sexually transmitted disease believed responsible for 70 percent of cervical cancers. I know how I honestly feel; but, that's not what's important…I want to know how YOU feel about it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
Aurora Moon at 11:40PM, May 19, 2007
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well, I have an mother who happens to be an nurse….

And she's told me that she found that whole thing to be ridiclious, snice there's actually never been any actual sereve cases that she's heard of that would demand an mass vaccination forced upon anybody. Far as this goes, it's still basically just an theory backed up by flimsy evidence. (hell, there's plenty of scienicsts who still haven't figured out how cancer works in terms of what the trigger is).
So she has this theory that it's just all some form of scare tatics caused by the super-conversate congress to make the teenager girls absitain from sex, etc…

Me? I just think it shouldn't be manadtory at all…. just let the people who want it, take it. But the people who don't want it… they shouldn't have to take it if they don't want to.
After all, it's VERY rare for an person to actually have HPV. Hell, a majority of the pre-teen/teenager cancer patients didn't get cancer from HPV…. they got it though genetics. they werent even sexually active to start with when they first got cancer.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
maritalbliss at 1:22AM, May 20, 2007
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Aurora Moon
well, I have an mother who happens to be an nurse….

And she's told me that she found that whole thing to be ridiclious, snice there's actually never been any actual sereve cases that she's heard of that would demand an mass vaccination forced upon anybody. Far as this goes, it's still basically just an theory backed up by flimsy evidence. (hell, there's plenty of scienicsts who still haven't figured out how cancer works in terms of what the trigger is).
So she has this theory that it's just all some form of scare tatics caused by the super-conversate congress to make the teenager girls absitain from sex, etc…

Me? I just think it shouldn't be manadtory at all…. just let the people who want it, take it. But the people who don't want it… they shouldn't have to take it if they don't want to.
After all, it's VERY rare for an person to actually have HPV. Hell, a majority of the pre-teen/teenager cancer patients didn't get cancer from HPV…. they got it though genetics. they werent even sexually active to start with when they first got cancer.


I completely agree with everything you wrote.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
ozoneocean at 5:16AM, May 20, 2007
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I don't think mass inoculations have anything to do with stopping outbreaks of the problem, or even as a preventative for individuals (although that'd be part of the motivation). Mass inoculations like this are about total elimination of the virus that's meant to cause the cancer. So it's not so much to protect the teenagers who're injected, but all their granddaughters as well…
That's my take on it anyway ;)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:27PM
maritalbliss at 5:52AM, May 20, 2007
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ozoneocean
I don't think mass inoculations have anything to do with stopping outbreaks of the problem, or even as a preventative for individuals (although that'd be part of the motivation). Mass inoculations like this are about total elimination of the virus that's meant to cause the cancer. So it's not so much to protect the teenagers who're injected, but all their granddaughters as well…
That's my take on it anyway ;)

I agree that, in theory it sounds fantastic…But, does that kind of thing really work? Don't we still have Smallpox, rare…but, still it's there…I just find it creepsome and I'm glad I don't have a daughter, ‘cause knowin’ Ethan and I, our spawn would totally use it for the “Hey, now I can have sex” complaints that the majority of neighsayers endorse. That malarkey doesn't cause my hesitancy and I think the potential is awesome, but…Just seems AWFUL fast from creation to needle to butt cheek for me.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
Phantom Penguin at 7:49AM, May 20, 2007
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In someones mind that sounds great.
“If we could eject everyone with this the country will be perfect!”

But in reality when a regular person hears about a decree about the government shooting us up with something? It invades whatever sense of privacy we had left.

It should be a choice.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
marine at 8:12AM, May 20, 2007
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Its a conspiracy of epic preportions that involves Jerry Fallwell, aliens, and the war. Somehow, it probably links back to kennedys death as well. Also the bible could probably be used to predict all this was happening. But I can't find bible codes. So I use google.

Seriously though, it seems rather bullshity to me. Its admitting that sex with multiple partners is bad for one. Its also admitting that the female population are whores (pronouced with a new jersey accent as who-wheres, for comedic effect only) that sleep with damn near anyone and that somehow causes them to get HPV. In an upcomming penis story arc, this subject will be tackled.

You would think you could just tell people don't fuck dirty people, and show a picture of someone who had fucked a dirty person, and no one would fuck again. Or tell them that it causes parasites to grow inside them for 9 months. They still keep fucking. I don't understand these teenage girls these days, what with the blowjob parties and having three kids by age 14. Its nucking futs, and something has to be done.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
maritalbliss at 8:31AM, May 20, 2007
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marine
Its a conspiracy of epic preportions that involves Jerry Fallwell, aliens, and the war. Somehow, it probably links back to kennedys death as well. Also the bible could probably be used to predict all this was happening. But I can't find bible codes. So I use google.

Seriously though, it seems rather bullshity to me. Its admitting that sex with multiple partners is bad for one. Its also admitting that the female population are whores (pronouced with a new jersey accent as who-wheres, for comedic effect only) that sleep with damn near anyone and that somehow causes them to get HPV. In an upcomming penis story arc, this subject will be tackled.

You would think you could just tell people don't fuck dirty people, and show a picture of someone who had fucked a dirty person, and no one would fuck again. Or tell them that it causes parasites to grow inside them for 9 months. They still keep fucking. I don't understand these teenage girls these days, what with the blowjob parties and having three kids by age 14. Its nucking futs, and something has to be done.


I have a secret crush on you.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
ozoneocean at 8:39AM, May 20, 2007
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maritalbliss
I agree that, in theory it sounds fantastic…But, does that kind of thing really work? Don't we still have Smallpox, rare…but, still it's there…
There's a reason smallpox is rare. ;)
And many, many other diseases, viruses and what have you as well. The only places those aren't rare is were mass inoculation is difficult due to cultural bias, logistics and various other reasons; places in India, and certain African countries.

Seriously, sexual intercourse and the age of the girls is a side issue. The “governments” of many countries (including your own), have been inoculating you and controlling and preventing disease for decades! lol!

The arguments here presented against the programme remind me very much of the arguments against treating HIV in places like South Africa. True, it's not quite as serious a problem as AIDS but the arguments and fears are pretty much repeated.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:27PM
maritalbliss at 9:04AM, May 20, 2007
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ozoneocean
The “governments” of many countries (including your own), have been inoculating you and controlling and preventing disease for decades! lol!

Yeah, lol! But, it don't mean that THIS time, it doesn't make me as nervous as a whore in church.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
Phantom Penguin at 1:56PM, May 20, 2007
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I would have been aganist the mass-injecting of anything, unless it was AIDS in a place like S. Africa, thats a bit different though.

HPV isn't the outbreak that SmallPox and Polio was. Its Sexualily transmitted correct?
That means there's plenty of other things to be done before the drastic step of poke millions of people.

I remember something like this being brought up over the Anthrax shot. Guess what? That killed people! I got the Anthrax shot alogn with several others when I was deployed to the middle east and I got pretty damned sick over it and ended up in the hospital. It happened to thousands of other people as well.

It that going to happen with HPV? Maybe not. Can it? Yes.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Aurora Moon at 5:26PM, May 20, 2007
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Phantom Penguin
HPV isn't the outbreak that SmallPox and Polio was. Its Sexualily transmitted correct?
That means there's plenty of other things to be done before the drastic step of poke millions of people.

yeah, and not only that apperently the group most likely to get that diease is 15 to 24 years old people. But anybody older than that don't usually have it no matter how they were more sexually active than the younger people. which I find to be a little werid. also this isn't just limited to girls.. it seems that guys can get it too…
Guys gets penile cancer from hpv! lol

Wiki
About a dozen HPV types (including types 16, 18, 31 and 45) are called “high-risk” types because they can lead to cervical cancer, as well as anal cancer, vulvar cancer, head and neck cancers, and penile cancer. HPV-induced cancers often have viral sequences integrated into the cellular DNA. Some of the HPV “early” genes, such as E6 and E7, are known to act as oncogenes that promote tumor growth and malignant transformation.

I agree with PP here though… it's not that big of an outbreak, so people just need to chill on trying to make it manadory for young people to get the shots. and Just work on finding an full cure for the cancer and other sexually transimated dieases.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 5:33PM, May 20, 2007
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Even if it was just a choice most everyone would get it anyway. What about the people who didn't here about it? If it was regulated than they'd have to get it, otherwise they may never know of it's existence. I agree it should be a choice thing, I just wanted to bring that up.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Aurora Moon at 6:55PM, May 20, 2007
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well, Atom… they have the friggin' commericals and ads all over TV and radio now. so how could anybody NOT know about it?
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 7:14PM, May 20, 2007
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Quite honestly Aurora, you'd be surprised.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Aurora Moon at 7:29PM, May 20, 2007
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did I mention that they have thier own website on it, and also hands out fliers in all the major cities now?

But yeah. I suppose when some people finds a way to be ingorant, they will.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 7:32PM, May 20, 2007
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Hell, I know adults who don't even know the difference between Democrats and Republicans.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Phantom Penguin at 2:54AM, May 21, 2007
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I know politicans who don't know that.
But thats not what we are talking about.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
wyldflowa at 3:22AM, May 21, 2007
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I'm all for it but think about it… if you could get immunised against ALL STIs what would be the first thing you'd do? Sleep with as many people as possible probably (I know I would… *snortlaugh*). I think the concept of “catching” a cancer causing virus would make people have safer sex and thusly stop them from getting other infections… some stupid kids out there may think that once they've had the jab then they're free to give their wares out to anyone without risk. It has to be done in conjunction with a mass education program to teach people to just have a bit more respect for themselves, a bit more self-control, be a little more picky and for god's sake keep using condoms (and get regular smear tests!).

I'm all for immunisation if it means lives will be saved - heck, my mother had cervical cancer and if it means one less person in the world has to go through getting their womb ripped out then it's worth it.


Pfft, I feel like I should aspire to be one of those family planning nurses when I talk like this. XD
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lothar at 5:52AM, May 21, 2007
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sadly this issue is not about preventing disease or even some interesting conspiracy involving mind control..
simply - IT IS ABOUT MONEY $$$
some drug company stands to make mass cash from this !
that is why it WILL come to be law , that is how America works !
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
SpANG at 7:40AM, May 21, 2007
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It's all scare tactics. That's all drug ads are these days. They scare you into getting drugs so that you won't get a disease that you may have not gotten anyways. This certainly isn't the first, although it may be one of the most devious to date. All this pre-emptive fascism makes me sick.

Scare tactics work, though. If you want someone to see your POV or buy your product, just scare them into it.

But on another note, how do you expect to get your GPS low-jacked into your system, anyway? ;)
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
marine at 8:19AM, May 21, 2007
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maritalbliss
ozoneocean
The “governments” of many countries (including your own), have been inoculating you and controlling and preventing disease for decades! lol!

Yeah, lol! But, it don't mean that THIS time, it doesn't make me as nervous as a whore in church.



I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE, WHAT A PUN

Back on topic, what the fuck kind of world are we in? Personally, I'm hoping for the end. Here I am about to realize my dream of comic superstardome, and the worlds going to end. OH GOD YOU AND YOUR IRONY

Also people with aids and stuff are just fakers, there are no diseases, viruses, or bacteria.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
nrbonner at 11:41AM, June 8, 2007
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since i am not a female and am not effected by it, i don't have a real strong understanding of the topic nor do i have much of an oppinion
As far as I understand the HPV vaccine is a preventive measure. The drug companies can't just sell a placebo to make money, so the drug would have to be proven to work before its made mandatory.
For those of you think its about money think of this; if there was a (working) HIV/AIDS vaccine, but the drug were made just for money, would you still get the vaccine? Also if you did have to pay for an expensive vaccine, the medical company or gov would still help pay for most, if not all, of it.
The mass prevention of STDs wont make people suddenly make love like rabbits because you can already use things like condoms to prevent most STDs. the reason that i see for not getting the HPV vaccine are if they aren't completely safe for the reciever.
A note about the anthrax shot, its only given out in special cases like military personal or government worker for 2 reasons. First, that the people who get it are at a higher risk for being targeted for or exposed to anthrax. the second reason is it is much more dangerous to the receiver of the vaccine because the vaccine can kill people, put them into the hospital, Ect.

Finaly, the US government may be run by a bunch of idiots (this doesn't change regardless of whether the republicans or democrats are in control) but those idiots don't want to do anything bad to constituents be cause they still want to be re-elected.

either side has good and bad points but, in the end it comes down to whether the people want it enough to have mandatory. remember if the vaccine isn't mandatory, the health care companies wont pay for most of the people who do want it.

p.s. marine was right when he said “don't fuck dirty people” but i do have to disagree with some parts. I would have sex with a few hot chicks as long as they're not skanky, known to be a whore, carry STDs, been with guys/girls who sleep with other dirty people Ect.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:19PM
Aurora Moon at 12:07PM, June 8, 2007
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nrbonner
since i am not a female and am not effected by it, i don't have a real strong understanding of the topic nor do i have much of an opinion
As far as I understand the HPV vaccine is a preventive measure. The drug companies can't just sell a placebo to make money, so the drug would have to be proven to work before its made mandatory.
For those of you think its about money think of this; if there was a (working) HIV/AIDS vaccine, but the drug were made just for money, would you still get the vaccine? Also if you did have to pay for an expensive vaccine, the medical company or gov would still help pay for most, if not all, of it.
The mass prevention of STDs wont make people suddenly make love like rabbits because you can already use things like condoms to prevent most STDs. the reason that i see for not getting the HPV vaccine are if they aren't completely safe for the reciever.
A note about the anthrax shot, its only given out in special cases like military personal or government worker for 2 reasons. First, that the people who get it are at a higher risk for being targeted for or exposed to anthrax. the second reason is it is much more dangerous to the receiver of the vaccine because the vaccine can kill people, put them into the hospital, Ect.

Finaly, the US government may be run by a bunch of idiots (this doesn't change regardless of whether the republicans or democrats are in control) but those idiots don't want to do anything bad to constituents be cause they still want to be re-elected.

either side has good and bad points but, in the end it comes down to whether the people want it enough to have mandatory. remember if the vaccine isn't mandatory, the health care companies wont pay for most of the people who do want it.

p.s. marine was right when he said “don't fuck dirty people” but i do have to disagree with some parts. I would have sex with a few hot chicks as long as they're not skanky, known to be a whore, carry STDs, been with guys/girls who sleep with other dirty people Ect.

Actually… some parts of that was one of the most misinformed drivel that I've ever seen. it doesn't just affect girls… it can affect males too in the form of a hpv called penile cancer.. meaning cancer in your penis! lol
They're just focusing on females more for some reason.

and…. even if you were thinking that you were safe as long as you only had sex with the few hot ones that wasn't known to sleep with dirty people, not skanky..etc… you're sorely wrong. What makes you think that they would be open about who they've been with? Tons of people get AIDS/STD/whatever from lovers who they thought they could trust… but it ends up that the ones that they thought they could trust because they seemed so clean, and so trustworthy…. were the most dirty ones.
Appearances doesn't always mean everything.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
kingofsnake at 1:01PM, June 8, 2007
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I'm not sure I see what the issue is:

“Hey you want this thing to keep you from getting sick?”
“No thank you I'll take my chances!”

Sounds hubristic to me.

“Well you have to have it”
“I think you're injecting me with something that does something other than what you say, Food and Drug Administration be damned!”

Sounds paranoid to me. I mean, what do you know about medicine, maybe those tetnus shots you're getting are really tiny nanomachines that will be used to control our body after you're dead? Should you not take one because you don't know for sure that it's not what they say it is? Unless you're going to get a degree in medicinal chemistry you might as well give up all medicines.

Plus it's been mentioned before in this thread, if its made mandatory it would first have to be proven that it works, and secondly it would have to be provided for by the goverment. They cant just say “ok everyone has to have this vacciene that costs 150$” because people would say “I don't have 150$” stalemate.

Granted all I know about this issue is what I've read on this board, but if we have a medicine that prevents a potentially fatal incurable disease why wouldn't you want it?



last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 3:36PM, June 8, 2007
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I can just see a future where the religious people with diseases are at war with the people trying to help them who don't have diseases.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Aurora Moon at 4:23PM, June 8, 2007
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I don't think people here are saying that the med does something else other than what the drug company claims….

So far I've only seen people voice thoughts that the drug companies are only using scare tatics in order to make an large profit off this drug “cure”…which I can totally see happening.. after all, they do it all the time for other drugs out there.. pills which people already take.

I'm sure that the drug does what it's supposed to do… to an certain degree. however, it can't fully cure anything about hpv… it just cuts down on the growth of the diease. so spefically, the diease would still be there.. the drug would just prevent it from being effective as an diease.

And… keep in mind that I have an mother for an nurse, and she's told me tons of information, such as the fact that it's very highly unlikely that a large percegate of people could actually get hpv. As seeing it's a form of cancer. yes it's transfferable by sexal contact (intercourse or even oral doesn't have to be required, just rubbing the sexual body parts will do). However, For the person to really catch this Hpv thier bodies would have to already have the abibity to be “cancer-friendly”.
So basically only the people with a family history of Cancer would have an very high chance of catching this sexual diease, whereas the rest of people out there would have a very low chance of catching it.

I think part of the scare tatics going on is that people is starting to treat it like it's AIDs, when it's in fact a competely different type of diease that shouldn't be ever compared with AIDs or the other sexual dieases out there.
The only thing HPV Cancer has in common with the other dieases is that it's easily transfered by sexual contact, but other than that….. nada.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Ludus Pragma at 5:44PM, June 8, 2007
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Aurora Moon
And… keep in mind that I have an mother for an nurse, and she's told me tons of information, such as the fact that it's very highly unlikely that a large percegate of people could actually get hpv. As seeing it's a form of cancer. yes it's transfferable by sexal contact (intercourse or even oral doesn't have to be required, just rubbing the sexual body parts will do). However, For the person to really catch this Hpv thier bodies would have to already have the abibity to be “cancer-friendly”.
So basically only the people with a family history of Cancer would have an very high chance of catching this sexual diease, whereas the rest of people out there would have a very low chance of catching it.

I think you might have misunderstood your mother, HPV is not cancer it is a type of virus or family of viruses. Human papillomaviruses (also cause skin and genital warts) are actually very common but most people who have them do not realize it. There are a few strains of HPV that increase the risk of getting cancer in predisposed people.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:48PM
Aurora Moon at 6:00PM, June 8, 2007
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I was reffering to the type of hpv that those blasted hpv commericals here keeps on mentioning… “Ohhh! did you know that the human pallionous Virus can increase and or give you cancer?! Blah blah blah..” they talk as if that type of HPV is more common and could easily give ANYBODY cancer.. even men with the penile cancer.

But you're right, I forgot to talk about the other strains… but that brings me to the next point. With so many types of HPV under one “family”, each has thier own effects and causes… how do they expect us to believe that this one drug can prevent ALL of them?

Yes, I suppose we could all take it and be more secure from at least half of them…

But that's the thing… HPV isn't new. it's been around for ages.. but with medical knowledge, it's been recently discovered. so now some people are acting like it's the end of the world, and the drug companies are now cashing in.

with it around for so long, you would think that we would had heard of more people dying from this diease earlier…. and plus if it can be prevented 100% like the drug companies claim, and even to the point of being nearly cured… it's not such a incurable diease is it?

oh, and here's this little bit of tidbit from an article:

Because the bodyâ??s immune system usually clears HPV from the body within six months, the study results do not reflect a womanâ??s lifetime risk of ever acquiring the virus, the researchers stressed.

â??People acquire these infections and then clear them,â?? explained the studyâ??s senior author, Dr. Lauri Markowitz, another CDC medical epidemiologist who is director of the agencyâ??s HPV Vaccine Working Group.

Clicky click very good article which explains my thoughts very well.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
mystery at 7:06PM, June 8, 2007
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wyldflowa
I'm all for immunisation if it means lives will be saved - heck, my mother had cervical cancer and if it means one less person in the world has to go through getting their womb ripped out then it's worth it.
Ditto, however my mother had pre-cancerous condition but I'm not sure it was caused by HPV, because she was in a low-risk category and not promiscuous. Yet still, when given the opportunity, I got the shot. Mum's case is an example of 1 You don't just get cervical cancer from STDs, 2 Lets say it only slows the cancer down, that means more chance of finding it in a pre-cancerous condition, it's still horrible, but it's less time in hospital.

kingofsnake
They cant just say “ok everyone has to have this vacciene that costs 150$” because people would say “I don't have 150$” stalemate.
I have a question though, are they forcing people to buy the vaccine or are they just forcing people to take it? (Which is still just plain wrong.) In Australia (which I understand is where the vaccine originated, I could be misinformed) it's free, and you don't have to take it if you don't want to.
It's not advertised on television here either, I mean, we were only aware of the second round of shots a day before it happened and my parents weren't aware of it until a few days later when it was mentioned in passing. I suspect I would be pissed off too if drug companies where advertising it like you're going to die if you don't get it. However, since they're not, I have no objections to making the vaccine AVAILABLE (not mandatory) to all women.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:09PM

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