Debate and Discussion

If Bullies were charged with manslaughter after victims killed themselves
Skullbie at 11:38PM, Nov. 16, 2010
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I was reading through answerbags legal category and someone asked if bullying to the point of suicide should be considered manslaughter. At a first glance my mind said “yes” but on further thinking i was conflicted.

On one point I don't think it would really deter bullying, on the other they did torment someone to the point of taking their own life.

There's also how susceptible people are…like that guy who jumped off a bridge after he was filmed having gay sex. Most people wouldn't kill themselves over that but he did. Kids could also have ‘revenge’ motivation for suicide as their bullies get a felony charge.

But I wouldn't want to be the parents of a kid who committed suicide and watch her tormentors carry on like nothing ever happened:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/us/jan-june10/bullying_04-06.html
Very conflicted after reading the above story. She was only 15… that age has enough turmoil as is.

Have any thoughts to add?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:48PM
ozoneocean at 3:50AM, Nov. 17, 2010
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The idea to charge bullies with manslaughter or somehow find them culpable in the death after a suicide is always one of those knee-jerk, revenge related reactions that seem to happen.

The general public often call for it, and I think it's an impulse that most of us feel as well.
It doesn't really make sense though. As you say Skull, it's not a deterrent anyway, people who actually commit suicide tend to have a whole range of psychological factors all converging to get them to that point and some suicides do it partly as a way of inducing guilt in people. And if you charge bullies for manslaughter you really should charge their teachers, doctors, psychologists, parents and friends with contributory negligence.

Bullies should be properly dealt with for their bulling behaviour, not indirect consequences that may or may not be due to that behaviour. If bullying behaviour was dealt with seriously and mitigated or prevented when the problem was actually occurring then maybe there'd be less suicides and destructive behaviours in victims!
This after the fact stuff is just nonsense really. You can't bring the people back to life.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
Aurora Moon at 4:54AM, Nov. 17, 2010
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I don't think they should be charged with manslaughter. However I still think they should be punished for such extreme behavior.

take that news link up above…. the bullies committed the crimes statutory rape and stalking. Those two actions are already punishable by law… so they should get the typical punishments for such actions.

and for the typical bullying aspects in everyday life, I think maybe the bullies should be made to do community service for years, as well as be made to go visit an psychiatrist that is well equipped to deal with sociopathic children.

Children can be unusually cruel at times, and never fully realize the consequences or the impact that their actions had on others until years later when they're much older. so being made to do this as punishment would make them realize that what they saw as a “fun activity” wasn't supposed to be fun in reality at all.
The reality of what they did should be rubbed right into their faces, and they should be made to feel bad for what they did.

yes it won't bring the dead back but we still can prevent more senseless suicides from happening.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:11AM
Hawk at 11:30AM, Nov. 17, 2010
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I can't help but agree with the general consensus of this thread. I hate the idea of bullying and wish all kinds of sadness and regret on those who do it, but suicide is the absolute dumbest solution to just about every problem. Bullies can be punished for all the awful things they do to people, but they should not be punished when their victims' lack the foresight to handle their problems in a mature and rational way. Charging a bully for their victim's suicide rewards a foolish decision.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
Blackhoodcomics at 12:31PM, Nov. 18, 2010
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This may sound harsh to say but bullying actually has a social value in that it teaches people how to deal with conflict. I grew up Muslim, and even though New York has a large Muslim community, probably one of the largest in the country, I went to a public school where most of my peers were either Christian, agnostic, or atheists. You can only imagine the hell I caught, but I learned how to deal with conflict, debate properly, and throw a mean uppercut when all else failed. My children go to a public school here in North Carolina, right outside of Fort Bragg, and they are Muslims also and many of them are in classes with children who's parents are deployed overseas. I do not try to shield them from the harsh reality of peoples ignorance, and I am proud of them when they come home and tell me how they had to explain that Muslims, like their father, have been in the military and are serving their country in valuable ways. My daughter wrote a paper on the role of Muslims in the intelligence community and how indespensible their service is.

My point is that suffering builds character, and even though bullying is the domain of cowards, we can learn how to be better people because of them. That's just my opinion.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
blindsk at 1:40PM, Nov. 18, 2010
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Besides building character for the victim, I think it's worth taking it from the bully's perspective. I had always thought bully's gave in to such aggression as an outlet for their own problems. Sure, they're by no means as serious as someone having suicidal tendencies, but they're there, and for these people beating other kids is a form of respite. It compensates for the lack of attention or the abuse they receive at home.

I feel like if you look into these homes, you'll see a child detached from their family or abusive parents. Interestingly enough, I'm sure most cases if you were to compare who has a stronger will between the bully and the victim, the victim would come out ahead. The bully is acting out of desperation, not trying to push someone towards death.

Out of curiosity, was this topic in response to the recent legislation to make bullying much more punishable? Personally, I see this as a train wreck waiting to happen. Throwing money at rallies, prevention programs, and employees designated to work with victims of bullying seems like somewhat of a waste when this money needs to be spent elsewhere. Add to that the confusion I'm sure this will put children in. Where will the line be drawn? Is it considered bullying after continued abuse or one giant confrontation? I agree with what ozone and a few others have reiterated - I feel like this is more preparation than necessary over a few misfortunate incidents.

I don't really like the fact of children having one more “invisible eye” constantly watching over everything they do. They need some room to grow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:25AM
Aurora Moon at 7:48PM, Nov. 18, 2010
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Blinksk, not all bullies come from detached or abusive homes.

you know that cliche about rich girls or boys being compete jerks? while very trite, it also holds a element of truth in everyday life.

this also applies to middle-class kids…. both the middle-class and the rich kids can be very easily spoiled, and very used to getting their ways.

in this culture of ours, lately it's more about people growing more self-absorbed and then it's always “all about me, me, me, me” for them.

so lacking empathy for others, they then tend to think it's perfectly okay to pick on anybody who's not like them.

“Well, you're not like me at all. you're so different from me… so why should I care about anybody or something that has nothing to do with me or is nothing like me?”
that's the mindset for some of those bullies.

there's also the element of dehumansing others in that mindset… if they're not like you at all, then how can you even understand them? And if you cannot understand somebody, then it's like they're not as Human as you are.

That's often how racism and such comes about too– out of such ignorance and and that “inability” to understand how others' lives outside of yours work.

So that was why I often suggested that anybody caught in acts of bullying be sent to a pyschrist… and then have that pyschrist teach them how to empathize with others.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:11AM
blindsk at 8:38PM, Nov. 18, 2010
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You bring up a valid point, and I hadn't thought of that scenario. I had just drawn from my own experiences.

But either scenario seems to point to a common theme: the parents. While it seems advisable that the child should be put into a psychiatrists hands, the parents also need some sort of wake-up call. In my case, the parents need to realize how distant or abusive they are being with their children. In your case, the parents need someone to give them the truth as forthright as they can. It's going to have to feel like a slap in the face, leaving them stunned and in denial. But eventually it will get through to them. Actually, some schools already do this, but they're way too understanding and nice about it, so the parents come out thinking they don't need to adjust anything at home at all. Then again, I'm not a parent, so this is all theory.

Anyway, I just don't see cracking down harder on these bully's actually working anyway. The type you mentioned, Aurora, are driven in a way where they won't be thinking, ‘Oh hey, maybe I need to be a better person,’ but instead, ‘So how can I still get away with it?’ That's how I see it.



last edited on July 14, 2011 11:25AM
Aurora Moon at 11:10PM, Nov. 18, 2010
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that's what they said about racists, you know.

hate groups like the KKK was thinking of ways “how can we get away with this?” when hate crime laws first became in effect and stuff.

now, I daresay that hanging blacks are less common nowdays, mmm?

Because we were educating people at a young age that anybody with a different color of skin or whatever was still human just like us, and this did not mean that we were any less or more superior over others…. racism is at an all time low.

oh sure, it still exists…. and there's always going to be jerkwads who think that the color of the skin counts for intelligence, etc.

But, with such things in place to combat racism, things are much better now despite a few racist assholes still existing, don't you think?

I think that with efforts to combat bullying, it could go down the same path as racism.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:11AM
blindsk at 12:48AM, Nov. 19, 2010
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I'm afraid I'm not seeing this common ground between bullying and racism. Obviously they both deal with outward aggression towards another individual without any sound reason.

But racism is a much more severe case. It's something that some people never grow out of. Bullying, in general, people do grow out of. As you said before - bully's should see a psychiatrist. I, too, think bullying is a psychological issue where a person might be dealing with their inner turmoil.

Racism, however, is more of an ideological deficiency. They have this misconception that skin or race accounts for huge differences.

Bully's tend to prey on someone that's weak, quiet, nerdy, what have you. I should know, because I was one of those kid they sought out. You could make the point that race has something to do with it, and sometimes it does, but not because of their skin color, but because they're less likely to be able to defend themselves. I'm thinking of a friend of mine that came here from Italy when he was young, didn't speak much english, and was picked on because of that. It made him a strong person in the end.

Bully's eventually learn on their own that their ways will get them no where. When they step out into the real world, they'll understand that no matter how hard they push, the world will push right back even harder.

Lastly, what of the few people that actually are racist? The people they ridicule, can they fight back? I completely agree with the point Blackhood made - words work, but sometimes you do need to use your fists, especially against something like racism. But then with this new legislation in place, who becomes the bully? The racist could easily pass himself off as the victim. And the real victim of racism will learn the “lesson” that keeping silent and enduring is the way to go.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:25AM
bravo1102 at 12:52AM, Nov. 19, 2010
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Just a note about racism.

It was institutionalized in the USA and the three incarnations of the KKK were organized to fight threats to the racial institutions of “seperate but equal” (huge over-simplification there)

Two incarnations of the KKK were defeated not by psychiatrists or hate legislation but by the Army and the FBI battling it as an organization and using laws against the organizations. The actual anti-lynching laws and voting rights acts were defeated and filibustered again and again in Congress.

The third incarnation is alive and well but has had most of its teeth removed through laws against conspiracies and specific acts of violence and other laws protecting individual Constitutional rights. Bullying is not an organized conspriacy. Bullying often doesn't isn't about stopping someone's Constitutional rights and when it is the Department of Justice will prosecute (most of the time)


As for bullying, more awareness among caretakers (teachers and parents) is necessary.

Legally how could you secure an indictment let alone a conviction? How can a chain of evidence be established? Getting a conviction on regular murder/manslaughter is hard enough. Hate crimes are also hard to prove. It's hard to prove that what the asslilant was thinking when he commited the act unless he explicitly says or expresses something. We can pass all the “feel good” legislation we want but try to make it work is something else.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM
Hawk at 9:58AM, Nov. 19, 2010
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You guys are reminding me of one of the things bugging me about the bullying legislation flying around lately. I'm not sure I like the laws being tied specifically to racism or homosexuality. I think every kid deserves protection from bullies, even if they don't belong to some sort of minority group. It just cheeses me a bit that kids have been going through this garbage for so long, but it doesn't get much attention until people feel like they can classify it as a hate crime.

However, even if the language and attention seems to specify specific groups, I'm sure even the regular nerds will be seeing plenty of the same help and benefits.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
Orin J Master at 9:22AM, Nov. 21, 2010
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i, for one would like to thank the bullies. their bastardry does for more to mentally prepare kids for the constant ass-kicking being an adult seems to entail and the inherent unfairness that modern life requires with its meaningless judgment calls on people.

anyone that kills themselves because someone's picking on them had issues before they started getting picked on. blaming the excuse they used to justify killing themselves doesn't fix anything, it just give other people a turn at bulling the jerk for once. satisfying perhaps, but it doesn't help anything.

(this post is about 20% troll, which is higher than u usually go these days, but still far too low for the topic)
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
ozoneocean at 10:10AM, Nov. 21, 2010
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blindsk
Besides building character for the victim, I think it's worth taking it from the bully's perspective. I had always thought bully's gave in to such aggression as an outlet for their own problems. Sure, they're by no means as serious as someone having suicidal tendencies, but they're there, and for these people beating other kids is a form of respite. It compensates for the lack of attention or the abuse they receive at home.

I feel like if you look into these homes, you'll see a child detached from their family or abusive parents. Interestingly enough, I'm sure most cases if you were to compare who has a stronger will between the bully and the victim, the victim would come out ahead. The bully is acting out of desperation, not trying to push someone towards death
That's not always true. Often bullies are just being mean for fun, simple as that, and hey don't even realise the harm they're doing. They're not victims themselves, they're just arseholes.

- I have perspective on that because I did a bit of bullying myself in highschool. I'd fallen in with a bit of a nasty crowd for a while… One of my erstwhile friends even changed schools because of how bad I made him feel (not physical bullying). I didn't realise what a dick I'd been till that happened, -to me it was pretty harmless.That shook me up enough to stop for good.

When I was much younger I was always a bully target because I was very small, but I'd fight back like a cat at bath time, so they wouldn't try again. And when I was older I hung out with very tough friends. But not everyone can fight back like I could and not everyone can make friends with a tough crowd, so this “builds character” stuff is bankrupt too.

Bullies are dicks. Teachers should watch for their behaviour and put a stop to it as soon as they see it!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
Genejoke at 5:42AM, Nov. 22, 2010
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There is no one type of bully, just as there is no one type of victim.

BUT, what separates victims of bullying is how they deal with it. Not everyone gets it right, sadly bullying is a fact of life, always will be.
Should they be punished with manslaughter? That's a tough one but ultimately no, they will punish themselves enough (I would hope) but it shouldn't go unpunished either.

A kid I went to school with hung himself over bullying, his younger brother was a couple years below me and a few weeks after some ass says to him “Hi, hows your brother hanging!”
A bunch of other lads gave the guy a beating and the headmaster called them into the office and said “well done” they got detention as a formality and spent it watching movies.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:33PM
ayesinback at 6:32AM, Nov. 22, 2010
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I don't think charging a bully with manslaughter will help any one, other than trying to assuage a grieving family who wants something done, but it won't bring back the loss.

I do wish that there were mandatory “anti-bully” classes for both the bully and the bully's parents when a bully's actions have been identified and corroborated (by teachers? principals?). Sort of how drunk drivers have mandatory classes to attend if they want to get their driver's licenses back.

Whatever the reason is that a bully starts to bully, more often than not part of the reason can be traced back to a lack of good parenting, whether that's abusiveness or neglect.

The classes may not stop the bullying, but it should at least raise awareness on the parents' part.
under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
ozoneocean at 8:28AM, Nov. 22, 2010
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ayesinback
Whatever the reason is that a bully starts to bully, more often than not part of the reason can be traced back to a lack of good parenting, whether that's abusiveness or neglect.
I don't think that's the case at all, it's something we use as a simple explanation for behavior we think of now as aberrant (as well as abhorrent). A “history of abuse and neglect” probably better describes those that go on to do truly awful things, not just simple bullying.
-I knew a few kids who'd had horrible experiences, real tough nuts. But often they were the gentlest people- more likely to protect the weak than abuse them. The meanies tended to be those who'd had things easy. They behaved with the arrogance of entitlement.

I think the truth is that bullying is perfectly natural, even instinctual. It's remnant behavior from earlier times. You can see similar instances in most animal species. It's just part of competition, power differentials, the sex drive and all that sort of thing, and probably begins with sibling rivalry. Many bullies in school would be that way because of peer pressure, needing to conform with their group…. etc.

It's natural behavior, but out-dated and unhealthy in this modern society. So people should make the effort to train it out of those who participate in it. Natural things aren't always great… like malaria. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
ayesinback at 8:50AM, Nov. 22, 2010
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ozoneocean
The meanies tended to be those who'd had things easy. They behaved with the arrogance of entitlement.
It's my contention that these “entitled” kids may have the most neglectful parents of all. When parents buy Suzie and Johnny every heart's desire but don't spend time with them (instead, going to work and “networking” ), we will see meanies evolving. These are exactly the parents that should go to a parenting class.

ozoneocean
I think the truth is that bullying is perfectly natural, even instinctual.
I TOTALLY agree with this because I saw it in action. I had to have my first kid in day care at 4-months old, and my habit was to take a couple of minutes each day to see what was going on. It was amazing to observe that once babies were old enough to crawl (7? 9? months old), there were dominant “bully” babies and victim babies. The dominants would literally crawl over on top of the victim babies. When they got older, the dominants would grab toys just to grab toys. They would drop them as soon as they had them.

Some of the victims would roll over and start crawling themselves, and others would just stay in a sprawl and cry like their hearts were broken. Most victims learned to stick up for themselves, but I remember one baby who never did. Crying worked for her.



under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
blindsk at 1:09PM, Nov. 22, 2010
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Genejoke
There is no one type of bully, just as there is no one type of victim.

I don't think this could be closer to the truth.

And that's what I'm getting from this topic, as well. Seems like we can't just stereotype bully's (even though I just did previously) but understanding where their aggression is coming from would be a huge step forward.

I recently came to terms with the bully at my school (though I wasn't the only one he picked on) and now that we're both older, things have changed a lot. He met someone that considers him very special to them, and now he's more open about the problems he had to deal with in the past. He had huge issues with his parents prioritizing their work life over him, and they weren't around home much. When they were, family time was spent yelling at him for performance in school. He was just mad at the world and needed to lash out at something, anything. All this rage he was forced to bottle up at home was released at school.

It's funny, never thought I'd actually sympathize with the guy in the end. I guess that quote from Harper Lee about walking in another's shoes is pertinent to this sort of thing. I never thought this guy would be sensitive.

I think what does stay the same in each case of bullying is that the parents need more involvement. There will be some exceptions, but it seems this type of behavior stems from the home.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:25AM
ozoneocean at 6:47PM, Nov. 22, 2010
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blindsk
There will be some exceptions, but it seems this type of behavior stems from the home
This is a silly generalisation. Bullying is part of normal animal interaction.

Certain kinds of bullying may have different influences, like the one you're talking about, but that is in no way universally representative, and it in no way excuses their behaviour.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
blindsk at 8:00PM, Nov. 22, 2010
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ozoneocean
This is a silly generalisation. Bullying is part of normal animal interaction.

Are you speaking of methods that someone bully's with or the mindset itself? I'm saying the mindset derives from the home, but you're right, the means is a derivative of nature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:25AM
ozoneocean at 8:50PM, Nov. 22, 2010
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blindsk
Are you speaking of methods that someone bully's with or the mindset itself?
The “mindset”.
If you're talking about more specific stuff like spouse abuse, child abuse, alcoholism, etc, those tend to have more direct causes that are more readily traceable. But you cannot say that with something like bullying, it's far too nebulous and there are far too many analogues in nature.

Ayes's example of the behaviour of the young babies for a start! ;)

Bullying is something you train OUT of people, not something you can magically prevent.

———
A great example of the different kinds of bullying is the British Comedy series The Office (don't know if the American version is as subtle in this regard).

-David Brent- the boss, often bullies his staff without realising that's what he's doing. There are great realistic examples of the sorts of harmful things that just happen every day.
-He's insecure and in a leadership role, which is where the problems arise.

-Tim and Dawn- they're the heroes of the series and often get together to tease annoy and bug their fellow workmate Gareth. They see it as all in good fun, and it's pretty hilarious, but they're actually bullying him.
-Tim and Dawn are too intelligent and creative for their positions. They're bored and take it out on Gareth because he represents the dull-witted conformity to office life that they both fear and despise.

-Finchy- This is David's “friend”. Finchy often humiliates David in front of everybody and David acts as if it's all in good fun because he wants Finchy's approval, even though Finchy MEANS to humiliate him. Finchy, David, and Gareth get together in a group with Finchy as leader, and through his peer -pressure type influence David will indulge in Bullying behaviour that he wouldn't otherwise do.
-Finchy's motivation is simply that he is a dominant personality.

There are other examples but that comedy show is a perfect example of how complex and interesting this subject is.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
blindsk at 9:46PM, Nov. 22, 2010
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ozoneocean
Bullying is something you train OUT of people, not something you can magically prevent.

This also validates my assertion that the problem stems from home. From what I gather from your assertion, the parents need to instill civil values and morals into the child at an early age so as to prevent them from becoming a bully.

In any case, your statement still loses me. Even from your example with The Office (which by the way, the British version shadows the American version by far) I'm looking at Brent's example and seeing some subconscious insecurity that probably dates back to something he had to wrestle with in the past. Maybe he was always picked on at a younger age and just never recovered. That's the problem with the subconscious - you never fully realize where the insecurities originate from until a “scientist” comes and draws it out of you.

Tim and Dawn may seem like they're bored and giving into natural tendencies, but I see their lust for a dominate position coming from a lack thereof in their early life. It's no surprise that humans want to feel that power and have a commanding position, something these guys probably rarely get to assume outside of the office. Once again, their psyche demanded power, so they readily sought after it at a coworkers expense. I guess the summarizing term I'm looking for in all this are archetypes. Maybe this is just a dated view, but I always thought we were hardwired to understand that power is an archetype that is achieved by appearing controlling and dominating. And pushing other kids around is a way to feel that dominating position, if it hasn't already been achieved by supportive parents, peers, or accomplishments. And that would also explain why children, even at a very young age, act out as they do (archetypes being something that we're born with).

Yes, I've been reading a bit too much Jung lately.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:25AM
ozoneocean at 12:20AM, Nov. 23, 2010
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blindsk
This also validates my assertion that the problem stems from home. From what I gather from your assertion, the parents need to instill civil values and morals into the child at an early age so as to prevent them from becoming a bully.
That's a nice idea, but it is impossible.
You can't imagine all the social situations the child will go through and how they will react in all the different social environments they'll become a part off. Human communities and life in general are far to complicated to train someone up for so they will behave only in specific ways. If that were so the world would be a completely different place to what it actually is.
The best you can do is recognise behaviour patterns when they emerge in whatever context, and then try and work with the person to modify it.
-Unless you want to use medication or surgery to modify them physically so that they will grow up in just the “right” way…?
Stepford people! ^_^
blindsk
In any case, your statement still loses me.
I think the trouble is that you're still looking at bullying as a product of human civilisation rather than an innate, itinerant tendency. Not everything goes back to upbringing. This is a tendency that can emerge at any time in someone's life, regardless of past experience. It depends upon circumstance and social context.

It's the old thing about “Nature and Nurture”. We know that many environmental as well as social factors have influence on a person growing up, and we also know that genetic inheritance, instincts, simple biological imperatives etc are a massive par of who we are. Determining which is which is interesting. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
blindsk at 12:46AM, Nov. 23, 2010
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Yeah, I see. I never thought something like bullying would give way to something more deep and complex like it has. If you asked me ten years ago what I thought about it, I'd just tell you they were stupid jerks incapable of human emotion(mostly because you could say I was one of their victims).

But after reconciling with one, I saw the human side of them, deep down. They were probably more lost than I felt back then. It was eye-opening.

But does this natural instinct also account for this new term, cyberbullying? I'm guessing they're referring to a troll here or something. I always considered the act of using one's fist to be primitive and a natural tendency, but how about ridiculing someone incessantly online? I feel like your description here would also apply to these sorts of emotional types of bullying. This especially gives me a hard time accepting that the problem of bullying isn't a product of human nature but rather is some monster living deep inside of us.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:25AM
Faliat at 9:21AM, Nov. 23, 2010
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Saying that suicide is a dumb reaction to bullying makes me sick to my stomach.

I was bullied so bad in school that I considered taking my own life. If I was forced to stay until I was 18 like what is being considered by the government, I would have done it by now.

When you're being bullied that bad, you can't think straight.

My mum would cry taking me to school every day. I had to walk through those spiked gates and look back to see her in tears.
Because of how those four years had been to me I was rationalising putting her through more grief thinking that she would be better off not having to worry about me anymore.

Hell, I even rationalised taking out some people with me in order for the school to suffer in terms of grades and tarnish the “reputation” it had.

Problem was, that wouldn't have worked as well. One of my bullies died of a hole in the heart during the planning stages and an entire wall was dedicated to him.

In fact, to this day he is still “kicking up sympathy dust” at the expense of the GP that saved my grandmother's life as well as having a Celtic Football Club supporter's group in his name.
There's also STILL a memorial dance in his honour. Even though the school is shut down now and merged with the other catholic school.

Wonder if the girl that sprayed deodorant in my eyes when I was 13, got suspended for two days, then got hired as a cleaner a year later is working at that one, too?

Anyway, when I saw what a big fuss was being made over his death, it made me reconsider my parents having to watch people praise the bastards that tortured their eldest child for years. I didn't want to leave them behind with that.

If I had to say something more on topic, I'd rather they got a prison sentence. Not for manslaughter but for something more along the lines of two to six months imprisonment in solitary. Since bullies tend to be scared by being alone. Which is why they tend to bully in the first place. For social acceptance and approval.

Also, they should stop sending parents to prison for their kids not going to school. Give people carrots not sticks to stop truancy. Child benefit bonuses or something, I dunno.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
ayesinback at 11:03AM, Nov. 23, 2010
(online)
posts: 2,012
joined: 8-23-2010
You survived a lot and I'm glad you shared your story. Very sorry you and your family were subjected to that.

Bullies do have to be made accountable for their actions, and I wish there was a better way to address these actions at an early stage, way before anyone feels driven to suicide. Or murder.

I still think that authorities must bring the parents in to not just discuss their children's bullying behavior but to educate them about the effects of such behavior, and what they Must look for at home. It's too easy and too common for parents to be in denial about their own kids, to want to be “friends” with their kids instead of doing the tough stuff that parenting requires. And one of the toughest things can be making time to just be and do with the kids.

As to the memorialized bully, that sucks. I hate things like that.



under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
Faliat at 2:22PM, Nov. 23, 2010
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posts: 582
joined: 10-17-2006
The problem is that when things are at a early stage it is very difficult to define bullying. There's so many different types and combinations of them.

I managed to get all of them like some sick and twisted trading card game that nobody wants to play.

Another issue is the fact that parents where I lived just had kids for the child benefit of because they couldn't be bothered to use protection or abort them. And they typically used to be bullies themselves so it's a family tradition. Dragging them in to be talked to by police would just get you a similar reaction to bringing in the child.

There were days when my mum would be picking me up and she'd see mothers brawling in the street outside the gate. I would wait until everybody else was gone so I didn't see it happening, but if that's the example being set, how did I even have a chance?
It certainly wasn't because I was quiet and nerdy looking. I was always a very outspoken person. You gave me shit I'd give it back. Trouble was I'd often be the one punished for it. I was stabbed in the ear with a pencil at 15 and the boy that did it got let out o class while my art teacher kept me behind to tell me off. Even though my dad had a hospital appointment and my being held back was making him late. The smug lil' shiteater grinned at me while he left.

I kinda got him back, though. He sat opposite me on a bus back from college (He was still at the school) and I grinned back at him in the most murderous way I could. Git couldn't look me in the face. Took him a while to recognise me. I lost weight, had a different hairstyle and wasn't in the godawful uniform.
Wasn't 100% payback for having a scar on my eardrum and slight hearing loss, but I got to watch him squirm.

My school was also really weird in terms of what was considered “fit”. Glasses ad braces were fashion statements. I didn't get my glasses until after the bullying started and I had and still have relatively straight teeth. There'd always be somebody trying to insult me based on my glasses only to turn around and see three of their four-eyed friends looking extremely pissed. There were also kids fatter than me doing the bullying.

In fact, if the first major incident hadn't happened, it might not have been as bad and it would've prevented me doing down a nasty spiral of paranoia and hair loss.

But I had to be targeted because I wasn't ugly. And looking back on old photos depresses me so much because I keep seeing the life draining out of me with each passing month. I tried to make myself uglier in order for the bullying to become less sexual. And it did after two years. By the end of that I was being mistaken for elderly. And I was happy about it.

I got better after the haircut and then I stopped going to the local shopping centre for clothes. I was going to the city centre for stuff like that. I still have all of the t-shirts so I can scan the transfers and print them on other ones. They're starting to fade really badly now.


As for “him”, he came from a very large family with a lot of people doting on him while he was alive and getting angry at teachers for punishing him. My 1st year maths teacher used to affectionately call him “the alien” because he was the ginger kid and they'd throw “witty” comments each others way daily.
The same teacher also used to scream in my face every day telling me how stupid I was. She even praised him and insulted me in the same sentence quite often. His parents would always blae everyone else for his problems.

In fact, if someone is coughing up blood, do you take them to a GP or you you take thm to a hospital? They sure didn't.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
Aurora Moon at 10:23PM, Nov. 23, 2010
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posts: 2,630
joined: 1-7-2006
@Faliat

oh man…. that sucks.

it reminds me of my days at this boarding school I went to for most of my life. My mom wanted me to have specialized education because she thought I'd benefit from it.

you see, I was somewhat gifted in the terms that I could read very well from a early age… learned to read when I was like 3 years old with the baby books, and then started off from there. so by the time I was six years old, I was reading middle-school material and stuff.

however, that was the only talent I had, besides art. So my mom thought it'd be good for me to go to a school of other similarly gifted children, so that my talents would expand into other areas.

not so. The school was full of self-absorbed kids who thought that everything had to go their way just because they were oh so special and talented. so basically the older kids were snotty as hell….

And here I was, I was basically the most average one out of them all so naturally they felt the need to look down at me.

I too was outspoken, etc… and like you, I also got punished for it while the bullies got away scoot free.

most of the teachers disliked me mainly because I wasn't like the other mindless sheep who didn't question them, etc.

like there was this one teacher who had it out for me badly because I questioned some of America's actions once. he was a highly patriotic man who felt that if you even questioned America, that meant you were non-patriotic and therefore un-american. To make things worse… I was more *gasp* agnostic than I was christian, and in his eyes that was just plain bad.

So he literally held a grudge against me for one little incident for years, and as an result he would actually ignore the bullying going on against me in his class.

He'd actually be sitting there, facing us all… so it was obvious he saw the name-calling, the violence against me and stuff. Yet he would say nothing and just read his books.

yet, if I even started to defend myself or call names back, I was the one who got into trouble.

he was one of the worst teachers I had, and half the other teachers were almost as bad too. you see, some of the teachers who hated me the most would actually spread outrageous lies about me to other teachers, like how I was apparently a habitual liar and were a bully myself.

so of course the other teachers didn't believe me when I tried to tell them what went on in the other classes, and hated me for being a “trouble-maker” on principle. it didn't help my case that the bullies in my classes knew just how to butter them up so that they were seen as perfect little angels.

so If they saw those perfect little angels picking on me for no good reason, they would rationalize it as me having done something to deserve it.

every time I got into a fight, it was only to defend myself against bigger and older kids. Seriously, how does a 10 year old bully a bunch of 15-year-olds? seriously?? I was way smaller than any of them….

and I would be the one who had the most bruises and stuff while the older kids would get away virtually unscathed.

so the wild claims about me being the bully instead of those older kids made zero sense, and that was something my mom agreed with once I came home on the weekends with bruises.

I would had probably gone crazy or committed suicide in later years if it wasn't for my three friends there… they were basically what kept me sane. :P

and like me, they all went though their share of bullying too… so they perfectly understood what I was going though and we would kind of band together at times to ward off single bullies.

ironically enough, public school was actually more educational and enjoyable for me than the prative schools once my mom let me transfer schools.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:11AM
Faliat at 8:03AM, Nov. 28, 2010
(online)
posts: 582
joined: 10-17-2006
It never fails to enrage me when people put grades before student wellbeing.

Surely a happier student would be more willing to learn and have a more positive attitude towards learning in the future.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM

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