Debate and Discussion

In defense of Catholic Priests...
kyupol at 4:28PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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I've seen another article in the newspaper again… I've seen a pattern. If ever “Catholic Priest” is one of the words in the headline, there is another word that refer to child molester or sex abuse or something that has to do with being a pervert.

No wonder Catholic priests are seen as perverts.

But just like any other occupation, there are good eggs and bad eggs. A pedophile can be anybody. Man or woman… blue collar or white collar…

In reality, Catholic priests are mostly good people. I've known a few who helped me (and other people) through hard times… they don't care if they sit there for hours and listen to your crap. All they're concerned about is the salvation of your soul. As you might already know… hard times can force people to do evil things… including SUICIDE which is a “sin” in the Catholic religion.

As for molesting children, the Catholic church does not condone it. The 6th and 9th commandments refer to impure acts (including pedophilia) as “sin”.

But then again, maybe you might argue that the conditions in their lives can force them into becoming pedophiles. You know… if you're a priest, you're not allowed to get married (or have sex outside of marriage because sex outside mariage is a sin). Therefore these priests are deprived of sex and relationships.

To be deprived of affection… and love… can screw up your brain. And not all of them have a strong enough will power. That is why there are cases of priests getting married in secret, or abandoning the priesthood in the long run.

And why are priests not allowed to marry? I asked a priest and he told me that priests need to be always in a state of readiness. As people can die any time and they have to be able to get there to do “annointing of the sick”. It is a sort of ritual where the priest goes beside the dying person to forgive his sins. Also they have to be able to perform mass in the morning, afternoon, and evening… as well as sit down to hear confessions. Having a wife and kid requires time.


Therefore priests need as much support from the people… as well as respect.

Unfortunately, the media has demonized them. :(
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Aurora Moon at 5:04PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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You're right of course…. Predators tends to go for jobs and such that would put them in a position where people would trust them, and also give them easy access to younger people.

So pedophiles could be anybody–Teachers, police, Priests, etc…..

I do have to point something out though. that whole Cathlotic pevert priest thing isn't new…. it's basically old as time. Even in anicent plays, They make jokes about how Cathloic priests are men who likes young men, espeically young men of the choir.

I think the other reason for that, besides the reason you gave for them not ever able to have a sex life, is the fact that in anicent times it was common pratice for people who were gay to become priests or nuns.

Because after all, if one wasn't a priest/nun then they would still expect you to get married at one point in your life and if you had no sexual attraction to the oppsiste sex then that was bound to be found out sooner or later. And back then, they weren't exactly kind towards gay people… it was a well known fact that most gay people would “mysteriously” wind up dead. So it was in thier best intersts to become priests and nuns… in order to purge themselves of such feelings that would get themsleves killed.

And now even though that isn't as common nowdays, there are still gay people entering the covent snice it's a traditonal way of “curing” themselves even though it isn't an real cure.

Now I'm not saying Gay people are inclined to child molestion, far from it! Nor are Gay people perverts at all. But this is one of the reasons why it was common to hear about a priest getting it on with 18 year old choir boys.

But of course not all the priests and nuns are gay at all, so that whole theory of them not having sex or love in their lives from a human pyshically is proably more vaild than mine.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
ozoneocean at 5:39PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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There is also an aspect of a modern media phenomenon. Basically people in groups are stupid and the more of them in a group the dumber they get, people go along with urban myths and memes and the become real because of belief. “Catholic priests are child molesters” is the same as "all strange meat tastes like chicken“ and ”radioactive material mutates you and glows green". All those memes have a kernel of fact here and there in certain instances, but due to to flat out stupidity of many people they've gained currency they're NOT entitled to. and basically, as generalisations they're not true.

The trouble that the catholic religion has is that for many years it suffered active persecution in the US. There is an ingrained culture of prejudice towards it in that country stemming from an extremely strong, numerous and powerful protestant community. In the hey day of the Ku Klux Klan they even lynched Catholics, that was before they narrowed their focus on to ONLY persecuting African Americans.

That culture of protestant hate and distrust mainly comes from England originally…

That is NOT to say that cases of child molestation in the catholic church are not real! They are and it happens all over the world. But the thing is, that while the press focusses the lens on the Catholic church there is no similar level of scrutiny of other religions. I HAVE seen lessor reported cases of child molestation of boys and girls from Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Mormons, Christian Fundamentalists, Anglicans, Baptists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Orthodox (both Eastern and Greek), All the various Christian sects and cults, even in the Jewish faith. As Aurora says: Predators go for jobs where they have access to their prey, also power is something that people abuse. That is the whole story of it, nothing more.

If I hear one more hamfisted theory about “no sex makes ‘em crazy” I’ll be very annoyed. No, no it doesn't. It doesn't make them paedophiles if they're not like that already and it doesn't explain why there are paedophiles in all the other religions that do allow their adherents and officials normal sexlives. Face it, you're simply going along with the culture of ingrained prejudice and using the “no sex” thing as a justification. Stop it and broaden your knowledge.

The hype and the hysteria is based mainly on anti Catholic prejudice. While the cases are REAL, they aren't unique to the Catholics or even over-represented.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
Vagabond at 6:41PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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At least we're not focusing on the rampant embezzling anymore, right?


… Whoops!
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
Priest_Revan at 6:45PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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Well, there's really nothing much you can do about the whole “Pedophile Priest”. Whether it be in news media, cartoons, or otherwise, Catholic Priests have this really bad reputation, and it wasn't long ago since I heard a new “Catholic priest pedophile” joke.

I mean, it's kind of like the whole thing about Scout Masters being pedophiles. They're around children all the time and most people would label them as pedophile. Yes, there are always those few people who are really like that, but most aren't.

As long as there's one bad apple, it can ruin the whole bunch.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:48PM
bobhhh at 7:19PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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It would wrong and unfair to malign all priests because of a few perverts, and I agree the whole concept that human males are such boorish apes, driven mad by unused testerone and overflowing with semen that they can't convince themselves that molesting a child is a bad idea just reeks of the worst kind of prejudice.

I would defend most of the preists I have met as good people, and I am an Atheist.

What I think really steams most people about the whole incident isn't that they think all preists are closet pedophiles, but the way the church hierarchy dissembled and tried to paint the victims as liars and exonerate or stash away the culprits. Had these cardinals and charlatans had a scintilla of Christian charity in their rotten bones, they would have washed the feet of these victims and hung the perpetrators out to dry.

Their selfish disregard for the truth, and their weasly attempt to cover their collective asses is worthy of repittion in the media until this catholic mafia gets chased out of power by the good Christians left in the church.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
StaceyMontgomery at 8:14PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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let's try it like this:

i used to work as a Game Designer. Game Designers are a diverse lot, I bet a few have turned out to be dangerous pedophiles. But Game Designers as a group have not been known to provide shelter for pedophile Game Designers. When a Game Designer gets in trouble, The Main group of game Designers don't arrange to send him or her to another part of the country where no one knows. Game Designers, as a group, are not famous for arranging cover-ups. We don't run special facilities for keeping pedophile Game Designers out of sight. We don't allow certain pedophile Game Designers who are wanted by the law to hang out in a sovereign Game Designer city-state we have where no laws can touch ‘em.

We also didnt run large orphanages in Ireland where the abuse of children was institutionalized on a massive scale for generations.

If we did those things, people would say that Game Designers are bad people, and that they run an international criminal conspiracy that protects and shelters pedophiles.

No, not a few bad apples. This was a massive undertaking by a huge, rich, and powerful organization that knew better. Frankly, Im amazed that there still is a Catholic church.

So yeah, Catholic Priests have a bad reputation. I think they earned it. That’s what a reputation is all about.

if they mend their ways, their reputation will improve over time. That's just how it works.


And speaking as a Bostonian - Dear Cardinal Law - please set foot on soil under US jurisdiction. We have papers we want to serve.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Aurora Moon at 9:31PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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bobhhh
What I think really steams most people about the whole incident isn't that they think all preists are closet pedophiles, but the way the church hierarchy dissembled and tried to paint the victims as liars and exonerate or stash away the culprits. Had these cardinals and charlatans had a scintilla of Christian charity in their rotten bones, they would have washed the feet of these victims and hung the perpetrators out to dry.

Their selfish disregard for the truth, and their weasly attempt to cover their collective asses is worthy of repittion in the media until this catholic mafia gets chased out of power by the good Christians left in the church.

Yeah. I was going to actually bring that up, but I was afraid of coming off as personally attacking the calthoic faith as an whole. I've actually brought this up on other messageboards, and were accused of doing that.

But yes, that's exactly why a friend of mine, who happens to have been brought up Calothic, refuses to go to church with her family because despite her faith, she's scared of something like that happening to her family.

I have to say that problem is pretty bad if even the people of that same faith is scared to go to their own churches on the chance that thier church may be habouring a pedophile/rapist priest sent in from other faraway churches.

I agree with that part… it's not that people consider all priests to be pedophiles, it's the way that the organization as an whole have covered up the crimes and denied the victims their due justice.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
ozoneocean at 10:02PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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This is yet another case of singling out the catholic faith and yes it does go back to that protestant prejudice.

I say singling out because while the so called “cover-ups” did indeed happen and I believe continue to happen this again is a well documented and understood phenomena of all large organisations that attract paedophiles. Yes the catholic church has indeed been guilty of this, but to single them out and vilify them in isolation again seems ignorant and simply furthers this ancient culture of “anti-popisim”.

Truly, all orphanages, no matter what sect, or secular institution runs them, even foster families have had and still have trouble with systematic abuse of children is all forms! And as for a culture of organised cover-ups- we have the aforementioned scouts, all the religious groups I mentioned, police forces in most countries, Judiciary, hospitals, the military, teaching institutions of all kinds, sports groups… I could go on forever listing institutions how have been found to be involved in just these sorts of cover-ups.

The trouble is that it's so much easier to vilify one group and make them the whipping boy, the scapegoat, for all the world's evils. But you HAVE to be aware of TWO vital points:

Firstly, WHY are you singling out that one institution? Especially given the facts I've outlined. Continuing an ancient culture of persecution is something we should escape from, NOT perpetuate.

Secondly, don't you realise that by making that one group a scapegoat, you are ignoring the real problem of paedophilia in institutions? Already cases of child molestation elsewhere are commonly thought NOT to happen simply because people have been lulled into thinking this is a “Catholic” thing. People simply don't realise that their children are at exactly the same risk in whatever institution they are given into the hands of, religious or secular. And the perpetrators just as likely to be protected.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
Aurora Moon at 11:07PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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Well, I don't think anybody is singling out the Catholic organization… we're just simply focusing on that because the topic is all about why Catholic Priests are being villianized.

So don't you think it's natural to talk about all the reasons why they're viewed in such a way, whenever it's valid or not?

And I'm sure if the topic was simply about men of faith and predators, then others would certainly bring up a lot more cases besides the ones with Catholic priests.

And…You got to admit, you don't hear of an cover-up that large being exposed everyday. So I think that's why in most people's minds, the Catholic Church's cover-up is considered the worst out of the lot.

After all, in other cases people heard about, it was basically a small number of people covering up for one person… which made it easier to discover the truth. And in those cases, like the boy scouts for example, it was basically a couple of scoutmasters denying the possibility that one of their fellow scoutmaster could be a sexual predator.
In most of the cases, people wasn't “covering up” because they knew or anything. It was basically covering for the predator because they were in DENIAL that the person they thought they knew could be one. So they go and say: “No, nothing like that ever happened! If anything like that ever happened I think I would know!”

I think it's just the fact that there was SO MANY “Good” men who had plenty of evidence right in front of their eyes to the point where they couldn't deny the fact that one of their own was a bad person. The very fact that they KNEW, and still covered for those few rotten apples, all for what? To keep from losing face?
And it wasn't just a few predators and victims like in other cases with the different organizations out there. 4,450 of the 110,000 priests who served between 1950 and 2002 were accused of sexual abuse of minors. And there was more than 150,000 victims over the 50 years. So many victims. I think that's what is so shocking to most people that such a case would stick in their minds as being one of the “worst ever”.

I just have to yet to find any other cases where something similar happened to that case where it went on for so long and was perpetuated by so many predators.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
bobhhh at 11:14PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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Firstly, WHY are you singling out that one institution? Especially given the facts I've outlined. Continuing an ancient culture of persecution is something we should escape from, NOT perpetuate.

To be sure many other faiths and institutions have their child molesting scum, and I will dish out equal ire to any shameless leaders who try to excuse, and by their actions tacitly condone, such behaviour just to save face.

If I seem to have singled out the Catholics, it's just cause this thread is about Catholic preists. I was actually my intention to defend the majority of them rather than to single out the Catholic church for ridicule.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
ozoneocean at 11:30PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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No Aurora. The point of the thread is “defence of Catholic Priests”. Which is what I was doing, providing a defence. None of those instances I mentioned were entirely “one or two guys”, it was exactly the same and exactly endemic as any reported situation in the Catholic Church.

So, why is the Catholic church singled out? Why is more scrutiny given to them than ANY other? Why have they become synonymous in the public mind with this particular scandal? I say it's because of real cases and a culture of ingrained institutionalised prejudice against the catholic faith as a whole.

And we MUST remember that this is not a problem that essentially has anything to do with the Catholic church as an entity: the CRIMES of molestation and coving up that molestation are the crimes of that institution and the individuals. The the fact that children get molested and that this molestation is covered up is absolutely global and universal in all institutions where they are taken out of their parent's care and supervision, THAT is what is being criminally, dangerously, stupidly,blindly ignored. ;)

The trouble is by even having a “defence of Catholic Priests”, this encourages people to think that they have a problem that needs defending against. The only problem is public perception. As I say, the molestation issue is UNIVERSAL, it's excellent and fantastic that we have uncovered instances of it in the catholic church and that should be continued! Try and stop it out and punish the guilty by ALL means! But realise the true cause of the problem and stop demonising the church itself.

It's only when we stop thinking of this as a “Catholic Church” problem and start focussing on the treatment of children generally, as well as abuse of power, institutionalised cover ups, and paedophiles in places of power over young people will we Truly come anywhere close to doing something to combat this problem.

Till then we're side-tracking ourselves and allowing it to flourish in secret as it has always done, with the spotlight turned firmly away from the rest of the scum beneath the floorboards…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
bobhhh at 11:50PM, Sept. 26, 2007
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The trouble is by even having a “defence of Catholic Priests”, this encourages people to think that they have a problem that needs defending against. The only problem is public perception. As I say, the molestation issue is UNIVERSAL, it's excellent and fantastic that we have uncovered instances of it in the catholic church and that should be continued! Try and stop it out and punish the guilty by ALL means! But realise the true cause of the problem and stop demonising the church itself.


Man makes a point here, the question was loaded. We shouldn't be pinning debate on the protection of minors from predatory adults solely on the catholic church shoulders.

I guess I was more interested in defending the preists I knew from unfair stigma than I was in defining the broader issue.

Good call.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM

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