Debate and Discussion

Internet 2.0 on its way?
cartoonprofessor at 5:06AM, Aug. 8, 2008
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“Amazing revelations have emerged concerning already existing government plans to overhaul the way the internet functions in order to apply much greater restrictions and control over the web.”

I remember hearing about this a couple of years ago. Do we take for granted the incredible freedom of information (with all it pitfalls… misinformation, etc) we presently have with the 'net?
Read this interesting article for more info.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:36AM
StaceyMontgomery at 6:05AM, Aug. 8, 2008
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I just referenced some of this in another thread yesterday, but i failed to provide a link - thank you for doing so.

The telecom companies (recently granted total immunity for spying illegally on, well, all of us) have for a long time been proposing to the government that the internet is now too important to left wild, and that it should be brought under control. And of course, they want to be the ones to do the work. This is all pretty well documented - no anonymous postings, corporate sites getting priority bandwidth over small sites, the government knowing exactly what porn you've googled (and then your Principal will know, and the police getting a list of any “political” topics you browsed…)

Oh, and recurring idea in govt circles - every computer stamps a “watermark” on every file, you can tell exactly who wrote what code!

A less obvious consequence of all this, btw, is that your computer just won't work well. This is why VISTA sucks so much - it spends most of its cycle time watching to make sure that you aren't downloading video! This is also why the new versions of photoshop seems so sluggish - they spend all their time checking that you haven't imaged a dollar bill (it could lead to forgery, gasp!)

You'll also have to pay a lot more to do a lot less. The Internet will get lots of tolls. Ask anyone who's recently lost all their tunes because their Yahoo music server or their Microsoft music server closed - sorry, any tunes you bought with the old DRM may be lost to you - but you can always just buy them again from some other server, right?

And just by complaining about this stuff, you may attract the attention of ECHELON (or whatever they are calling the Total Infoprmation Awareness program these days - I believe that it is now called the Terrorism Information Awareness Program. Hey, I'm almost fooled!

The evidence of recent years is that the public will just roll over for all of this, happily embracing their overlords new plan to more, well, overlordy.

I used to say Americans would not take this sort of thing, but these days, you only see that kind of spirit in old movies.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
lothar at 6:36AM, Aug. 8, 2008
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again america is confusing itself with the World ! they don't own the internet ! if they do this they are no better than china and they will simply drop out of the free world
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
StaceyMontgomery at 7:16AM, Aug. 8, 2008
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I think you are wrong. A lot of other countries - like China - very much want a more controlled internet. They will embrace the new internet happily.

What nation will say no to Internet 2.0? I can't think of one. They all want more control, and no nation will be able to afford being cut off from the internet.

And if you dont give in, the terrorists will eat you with mustard - mustard i say!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Hawk at 9:24AM, Aug. 8, 2008
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You know, I've heard about Internet 2.0 several times now, and for me this is the first it wasn't talked about in a positive light. Usually it's about how much faster the information will travel, fiber-optics, and streaming movies.

But what you mention is unsettling, Stacey. I wouldn't be surprised if it is indeed true, because certainly the most powerful source of information for this generation (and probably any generation before) would be far too advantageous to control.

It gives me a little hope to think that we've grown accustomed to this freedom and probably wouldn't stand for it being taken away, but the problem is that we may not know what sort of restrictions lie ahead until they flip the switch. And then… where's our old internet?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
StaceyMontgomery at 9:50AM, Aug. 8, 2008
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William Gibson wrote an article way back called “Disneyland with the Death Penalty” - it's about Singapore.

And everyone should read it. here it is:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html

I think it's a model for the future. As China gets more economic freedom (that is, freedom for capitalists to do thinks with money) and the US gets less political freedom (as we slowly lose habeas corpus and the 4th amendment, for starters) we see a new kind of global consensus emerging. One that makes sure everyone gets fed and everyone gets to be lower lower middle class so long as you dont make waves or make trouble for the elite. It's a world where the government watches you all day - but only to keep you safe from, um, bad ideas.

It's the Democrat Mommy State and the Republican Daddy State all grown up and married together. Maybe it won't be so bad - not for most people, for people who are good at getting along and doing what they are told.

But I'm not looking forward to it.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
lothar at 5:58PM, Aug. 8, 2008
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good article , even if it was written 15 years ago . we realy are in the future . it's just more militant and less prosperous than expected .
if they take away the internet they're goin to have to replace it with something that gives us all the porn, violence, and randomness we've grown used to . sure there will be discontents , but they can be rounded up and hatrvested for their organs. everyone els will just shut the hell up , there will be no resistance . just lords and consumers , and their dream of a hypercapitalist techno-fiefdom will become reality.

if that turns out to be the reality of web 2.0 i'm throwing out my computer and moving to the hills !!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
ifelldownthestairs at 5:42AM, Aug. 24, 2008
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yay, control! personally i'm glad, because i absolutely hate porn, and i hate illegally downloaded music.

i especially hate that i have the right to look at pretty much whatever i want relatively free of overbearing scrutiny.

i really really want all this taken away. and can i pay for it too, please? sign me the fuck up.

i have to agree with everyone else; i really would like to think that people would stand up to this should it happen, but so few would really do anything about it…
you know why birds don't write their memoirs? because birds don't lead epic lives, that's why. who'd want to read what a bird does? nobody. that's who.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:56PM
Custard Trout at 7:06AM, Aug. 24, 2008
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Did any of you really think it would last? All the free porn and music and information? The only thing that surprises me is that it took them this long.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:01PM
Sysli at 10:47AM, Aug. 26, 2008
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Interestingly enough you all use the term “web 2.0” a very different way than we do where I live*. Here it just means… Well, interactive. And I doubt any of us is afraid of the interactiveness, so it's pretty clear that's not what you're all talking about.

But to the point: This really shouldn't surprise anybody, theese things have been going on forever and they'll continiue to long after we're dead. I'm not saying it's a good thing, I'm just saying that somebody will always find a way to do something that somebody else thinks they shouldn't be, and they'll try to stop whatever it is. Hopefully that made sense.

*or rather, than we do where I'm being educated.
Because I may as well show a bit of pride. ^___^

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
ozoneocean at 9:29PM, Aug. 26, 2008
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From what I understand there is really no such “thing” as web 2.0. It's sort of a slogan. On one hand it describes people making the net experience more interactive, and on the other hand it's the name of a U.S. university project to make a much faster internet.

The only reason the net is what it is, is because of the free flow of information and the lack of many restrictions. If people move to stifle that, the net will begin to lose its relevancy as a major agent for change. It'll still be just as widely used, but not be as influential or widely useful anymore.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
JoeL_CQB at 9:51PM, Aug. 27, 2008
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i'm getting this confused with the whole network neutrality issue. or are they the same?

after I read the article of web 2.0 on wikipedia, it sounds like most of the stuff that web 2.0 is suppose to provide already exists.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:10PM
ozoneocean at 10:35PM, Aug. 27, 2008
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JoeL_CQB
i'm getting this confused with the whole network neutrality issue. or are they the same?
Ok, no. I think I've got what Cartoon means here:

Alright, the “2.0” thing doesn't actually point to anything specific, it's just a catchphrase that broadly means “how things will be once all the major improvements are made”.
…a generational change so to speak.

So that doesn't confuse any issue; it's all related because all the changes to the net will all happen together. Do you see? ;)

————-
So the idea seems to be that while universities and various people work to make it faster, and industry and individuals work to make it more interactive and ubiquitous, Governments will counteract the benefits with restrictions, laws, regulations, spying etc.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
JoeL_CQB at 11:15PM, Aug. 27, 2008
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oh………..

that clears things up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:10PM
Croi Dhubh at 11:35PM, Aug. 27, 2008
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Yeah, it's not America trying to do this. We're just being fed what American legislature has been proposed. Many other countries who are much more communist in nature (ie China, North Korea) would LOVE to have this kind of control of their populace.

Don't worry about losing the Habeas Corpus or 4th Amendment unless you're a conspiracy theorist, though. Ask anyone in law enforcement or prosecution and they will definitely tell you it's not happening, and it's actually getting stricter.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:54AM
StaceyMontgomery at 7:27AM, Aug. 28, 2008
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JoeL_CQB
oh………..

that clears things up.

Joel, we've been using “internet 2.0” rather loosely here to refer to an overall trend. I would consider losing Net Neutrality to be a part of that trend, yes.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
humorman at 12:19AM, Sept. 1, 2008
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cartoonprofessor
“Amazing revelations have emerged concerning already existing government plans to overhaul the way the internet functions in order to apply much greater restrictions and control over the web.”

I remember hearing about this a couple of years ago. Do we take for granted the incredible freedom of information (with all it pitfalls… misinformation, etc) we presently have with the 'net?
Read this interesting article for more info.
Web 2.0 has nothing to do with governmental control of cyberspace. Web 2.0 is simply the improvement of existing technologies in Internet applications. Generally, it can involve some sort of user criticism/opinion to aid in “fine-tuning” itself, and ultimately, create an application that can cater to said users to an optimal degree. Examples include:

- The ChaCha search engine (compared to Google)
- The Opera web browser (compared to Internet Explorer)
- The Flickr image hosting site
- The Youtube video sharing site

In terms of governmental control of the Internet, though it has been around for roughly half a century, the Internet is still a new piece of technology that still presents some “gray areas” in regards to censorship, privacy, and even copyright. Imagine the government officials playing on Xbox Live trying to find minors playing Grand Theft Auto IV. I mean, if Microsoft officials doing this, it could be seen as reasonable, being their product and all, but no one person, entity, nor government should be allowed to have complete ownership of the Internet. This would be akin to the United States owning the moon since they were the first country to “claim” it with the national flag.

Billy vs. Tree – The epic struggle of boy versus tree.
Sonic Colores – It looks like it's going to be a good game because I love how the way it makes me grow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:51PM
dallawalla at 1:19AM, Sept. 19, 2008
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If the internet does go to shit, and they take it over and it costs a fortune to surf… Maybe i'll finally get some work done.

Hey, what stops people from connecting to each other through electrical wires? Im sure ive heard of electrical wire data transfers, and there wouldnt be gateways like with phone lines would there?

Isnt there a way to decentralise the internet and have every person being a host, send & reciever?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:04PM
Scheiden at 4:57PM, Sept. 23, 2008
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Well that sucks. Not that I'd be able to do anything about it anyway but still….


OH WHO THE HELL AM I KIDDING?!! MY FREE MUSIC!?! MY FREE MANGA! MY FREE ANIMES! MY FREE COMICS!?!! MY FREE MOVIES!!!! EVERYTHING!!!! *bawwwwwwws*


-_-)v



So, yes. I'll be very sad when Internet 2.0 comes around and so for the meanwhile, I'll get all the 'free' stuffs I could get. *scampers towards teh download sites*
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:24PM
Puff_Of_Smoke at 5:33PM, Sept. 23, 2008
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Is it just me or are we headed towards a global U.S.S.R.? Seriously, next we'll have one-world Currency or one-world Government or one-world Language or even one-world religion!
I
I have a gun. It's really powerful. Especially against living things.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:56PM
kyupol at 6:31PM, Sept. 23, 2008
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A relevant article to this thread:
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/061108_kill_internet.htm



Is it just me or are we headed towards a global U.S.S.R.? Seriously, next we'll have one-world Currency or one-world Government or one-world Language or even one-world religion!

We are headed towards a prison planet unless everyone would say NO.

Thats why I am highly skeptical and critical of ANYTHING that says that spouts “one world” in their propaganda and/or promotes an ideology in where one just has to lay down for he will just be saved. DO NOTHING.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM

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