Debate and Discussion

Internet Etiquette...what your thoughts?
TheMidge28 at 10:08AM, Nov. 30, 2007
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This is an excerpt from a online document outlining etiquette on the web.

3.0 One-to-Many Communication (Mailing Lists, NetNews)
Any time you engage in One-to-Many communications, all the rules for mail should also apply. After all, communicating with many people via one mail message or post is quite analogous to communicating with one person with the exception of possibly offending a great many more people than in one-to-one communication. Therefore, it's quite important to know as much as you can about the audience of your message.

3.1 User Guidelines
3.1.1 General Guidelines for mailing lists and NetNews
Read both mailing lists and newsgroups for one to two months before you post anything. This helps you to get an understanding of the culture of the group.

Do not blame the system administrator for the behavior of the system users.
Consider that a large audience will see your posts. That may include your present or your next boss. Take care in what you write. Remember too, that mailing lists and Newsgroups are frequently archived, and that your words may be stored for a very long time in a place to which many people have access.

Assume that individuals speak for themselves, and what they say does not represent their organization (unless stated explicitly).

Remember that both mail and news take system resources. Pay attention to any specific rules covering their uses your organization may have.

Messages and articles should be brief and to the point. Don't wander off-topic, don't ramble and don't send mail or post messages solely to point out other people's errors in typing or spelling. These, more than any other behavior, mark you as an immature beginner.

Subject lines should follow the conventions of the group.

Forgeries and spoofing are not approved behavior.

Advertising is welcomed on some lists and Newsgroups, and abhorred on others! This is another example of knowing your audience before you post. Unsolicited advertising which is completely off-topic will most certainly guarantee that you get a lot of hate mail.

If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original!

Again, be sure to have a signature which you attach to your message. This will guarantee that any peculiarities of mailers or newsreaders which strip header information will not delete the only reference in the message of how people may reach you.

Be careful when you reply to messages or postings. Frequently replies are sent back to the address which originated the post - which in many cases is the address of a list or group! You may accidentally send a personal response to a great many people, embarrassing all involved. It's best to type in the address instead of relying on “reply.”

Delivery receipts, non-delivery notices, and vacation programs are neither totally standardized nor totally reliable across the range of systems connected to Internet mail. They are invasive when sent to mailing lists, and some people consider delivery receipts an invasion of privacy. In short, do not use them.

If you find a personal message has gone to a list or group, send an apology to the person and to the group.

If you should find yourself in a disagreement with one person, make your responses to each other via mail rather than continue to send messages to the list or the group. If you are debating a point on which the group might have some interest, you may summarize for them later.

Don't get involved in flame wars. Neither post nor respond to incendiary material.
Avoid sending messages or posting articles which are no more than gratuitous replies to replies.

Be careful with monospacing fonts and diagrams. These will display differently on different systems, and with different mailers on the same system.

There are Newsgroups and Mailing Lists which discuss topics of wide varieties of interests. These represent a diversity of lifestyles, religions, and cultures. Posting articles or sending messages to a group whose point of view is offensive to you simply to tell them they are offensive is not acceptable. Sexually and racially harassing messages may also have legal implications. There is software available to filter items you might find objectionable.


Is any of this of any substance?
Where is there room for difference for differing forums?
Should there be additions?

EDIT: fixed for SpANG.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:22PM
Croi Dhubh at 10:58AM, Nov. 30, 2007
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TheMidge28
This is an excerpt from a online document outlining etiquette on the web.

3.0 One-to-Many Communication (Mailing Lists, NetNews)
Any time you engage in One-to-Many communications, all the rules for mail should also apply. After all, communicating with many people via one mail message or post is quite analogous to communicating with one person with the exception of possibly offending a great many more people than in one-to-one communication. Therefore, it's quite important to know as much as you can about the audience of your message.
I personally don't believe in trying not to offend anyone. To me, doing so offends me, so you're not accomplishing anything. Granted, we shouldn't be going around and screaming racial/ethnic/nationalistic slurs.

There are many times when I post that I don't care who it ends up offending. As long as I'm not there directly attacking what a person is, I don't think it's an issue. If someone reads it and gets offended, then simply ignore me or actually read what I said instead of finding a reason to be upset.


3.1 User Guidelines
3.1.1 General Guidelines for mailing lists and NetNews
Read both mailing lists and newsgroups for one to two months before you post anything. This helps you to get an understanding of the culture of the group.
I don't agree with this either. One to two months? You can get a general feel of a place and if it's where you want to hang out by reading the most recent posts and skimming through old posts. It doesn't take very long. Maybe two hours.


Do not blame the system administrator for the behavior of the system users.
Consider that a large audience will see your posts. That may include your present or your next boss. Take care in what you write. Remember too, that mailing lists and Newsgroups are frequently archived, and that your words may be stored for a very long time in a place to which many people have access.
No, the system administrator is VERY responsible for those who are there. It is up to the system administrator to police the moderators, just as it is the moderators responsibility to police the users.

If the system users are acting like rabid monkeys screwing a football all the time, then either the ones in charge aren't doing their job or it's the kind of audience that they want.


Assume that individuals speak for themselves, and what they say does not represent their organization (unless stated explicitly).
This I can kind of agree with…HOWEVER, each individual is a representative of their given organization. One cannot sit there and claim to be part of an organization and then state they are only saying it for themselves.

The only way for someone to speak for themselves and not their organization is to separate themselves from the organization from the start and only mention the organization when it is necessary.


Remember that both mail and news take system resources. Pay attention to any specific rules covering their uses your organization may have.

Messages and articles should be brief and to the point. Don't wander off-topic, don't ramble and don't send mail or post messages solely to point out other people's errors in typing or spelling. These, more than any other behavior, mark you as an immature beginner.

Subject lines should follow the conventions of the group.
This is a given and I agree with.


Forgeries and spoofing are not approved behavior.
Well, this depends. Spoofing is actually quite funny and forgeries, depending on how/what/why it's done isn't always inappropriate.


Advertising is welcomed on some lists and Newsgroups, and abhorred on others! This is another example of knowing your audience before you post. Unsolicited advertising which is completely off-topic will most certainly guarantee that you get a lot of hate mail.
Again, this depends. If there is a rule about no advertising, then don't. However, pitching yourself is actually a really good idea.


If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough text of the original to give a context. This will make sure readers understand when they start to read your response. Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a message before seeing the original. Giving context helps everyone. But do not include the entire original!
Ah…the “WALL O TEXT”. Once again, this depends. I'm of the school that you should break it apart into sections and respond to each part individually. How else are you to explain your side on the issues you have? People won't understand where you are getting certain things if they can't find it in your reply and must keep scrolling back up to figure out where and what you're referring to.


Again, be sure to have a signature which you attach to your message. This will guarantee that any peculiarities of mailers or newsreaders which strip header information will not delete the only reference in the message of how people may reach you.
How about just replying to the person and not worrying about the rest..? I personally don't want a thousand PQ's about my reply. I'll check the freaking post for responses.


Be careful when you reply to messages or postings. Frequently replies are sent back to the address which originated the post - which in many cases is the address of a list or group! You may accidentally send a personal response to a great many people, embarrassing all involved. It's best to type in the address instead of relying on “reply.”
Attention to detail, people, attention to detail.


Delivery receipts, non-delivery notices, and vacation programs are neither totally standardized nor totally reliable across the range of systems connected to Internet mail. They are invasive when sent to mailing lists, and some people consider delivery receipts an invasion of privacy. In short, do not use them.
Just don't send them to the mailing list and just have them as an auto reply… People will get the freaking idea.


If you find a personal message has gone to a list or group, send an apology to the person and to the group.
Maybe, maybe not. This adds MORE clutter to the list or group that isn't needed. People will know you screwed up and will probably send you a message saying so anyway. Just let it go and learn.


If you should find yourself in a disagreement with one person, make your responses to each other via mail rather than continue to send messages to the list or the group. If you are debating a point on which the group might have some interest, you may summarize for them later.
I agree, especially if you're taking up the majority of the posts. I don't want to skip past five pages of arguments between two people with no one else interjecting. Take it to private messages.


Don't get involved in flame wars. Neither post nor respond to incendiary material.
Well…yeah. Telling two people to grow up and take it else where then posting something relevant to the subject at hand is okay once, but after that, let the moderators handle it.


Avoid sending messages or posting articles which are no more than gratuitous replies to replies.
Well, limit them at least.


There are Newsgroups and Mailing Lists which discuss topics of wide varieties of interests. These represent a diversity of lifestyles, religions, and cultures. Posting articles or sending messages to a group whose point of view is offensive to you simply to tell them they are offensive is not acceptable. Sexually and racially harassing messages may also have legal implications. There is software available to filter items you might find objectionable.
To SIMPLY say that, then yes, it's unacceptable, but sending rebuttals or counter arguments is acceptable. How else can people have a discussion? We don't all agree and think the same way, which is why we have those kinds of things.

Flaming and having a debate are different.


Is any of this of any substance?
Where is there room for difference for differing forums?
Should there be additions?
There's room for change in all of it.
Liberate Tutemae Ex Inferis
Moderatio est Figmentum: Educatio est Omnium Efficacissima Forma Rebellionis

http://weblog.xanga.com/CroiDhubh - Home to the “Chuck E. Cheese Terror” stories
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:54AM
SpANG at 11:24AM, Nov. 30, 2007
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Is quoting something in all bold, all italic considered good etiquette? Because I find it highly annoying. So much so, that I stopped reading about halfway through. Sorry. ;)
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
mapaghimagsik at 11:51AM, Nov. 30, 2007
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Reply receipts are an invasion of privacy? Perhaps, but its not so private anymore anyway.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 2:34PM, Nov. 30, 2007
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Yawn…

Way too long and boring.

You need something quick and snappy, like a Ten Commandments thing.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
mlai at 3:39PM, Nov. 30, 2007
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Agrees with Mxyl. Midge, I hope this isn't a FAQ for a forum of yours, that you expect ppl to read. Because 98% of ppl won't get thru the first 1/2 of it.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
kyupol at 3:50PM, Nov. 30, 2007
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too many rules.

Just simplify it to DONT BE A DICK. ;)
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
TheMidge28 at 4:38PM, Nov. 30, 2007
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Honestly this was from this document online.
There not my rules at all.
If you click on the link you'll see there is much more than what I listed.
I thought it was funny that there was such a document in the first place.
And thought it would be good to discuss and debate what people feel are the essentials for “Netiquette”.

I agree completely with Mxl.
So what would be the Ten Commandments?

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:22PM
mapaghimagsik at 5:39PM, Nov. 30, 2007
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TheMidge28
Honestly this was from this document online.
There not my rules at all.
If you click on the link you'll see there is much more than what I listed.
I thought it was funny that there was such a document in the first place.
And thought it would be good to discuss and debate what people feel are the essentials for “Netiquette”.

I agree completely with Mxl.
So what would be the Ten Commandments?



I'm sorry but discussions of this nature are against guideline 138-4/3 in “Internet Politeness Policies (Volume 3)” and is not allowed, unless submitted using Template 80.34 V3B
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 7:49PM, Nov. 30, 2007
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Two people agreed with me?

Holy crap, I must be slipping.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Aurora Moon at 8:41PM, Nov. 30, 2007
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TheMidge28
So what would be the Ten Commandments?

to me the ideal ten commandents of net etiquette would be this. explanations and a summary of it after the explanation:

1. Don't be an dick to others. Resorting to insulting people for your personal grafication is just plain rude on so many levels. Sure, making fun of others and being insulting might make you feel better about whatever issues you have in life, but remember that it's not just text you're responding to. There's a person on the other end. Besides, look at it this way–if you're a dick to others… then they have the right to be a dick back at you too!!
Summary: treat others the way you would like to be treated.

2. Don't get uspet if others don't agree with you on some issues, espeically in debating. After all, Not everyone was put on this earth to bow down to you and agree with everything you say. You should expect that there would be opposing viewpoints when you enter a debate… just much like if you ask for constrcutive cristicsm, don't be uspet if people are harsher on your artwork/writing/etc than you expected. After all, they're there to try to help you JUST LIKE YOU ASKED, not personally attack your skills. You should know that you can't always be perfect, after all.
Summary: Humlity is key. You are not all-knowing, not always right, nor are you the greatest artist/writer/etc ever on earth. Everyone has thier flaws, and so do you.

3. Please do your best to type eloquently and Clearly as you can. After all, not everyone speaks or understands L33T speak and shortened Text messages. So if you speak like this: “Hay r u the 1 who ked 4 sum Links?” Don't expect anybody to understand you fully. Summary: Dear God, stop with the Short Text idiot babble! No L33T nethier!!

4. The internet might seem disorganized at first, but even in Chaos there can be order. Everything has it's place in a internet Forum/site. So don't go posting Porn in an work/child-safe place. it not only makes you look like an idiot, but also makes an ass out of you. Summary: Everything has it place. Spam goes into spam forum, porn goes into porn forum, etc… Don't post in the wrong place, period.


Ummmm… I can't think of anything else to list for the rest of the ten commandants. any ideas?
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Tantz Aerine at 12:50PM, Dec. 1, 2007
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…what does L33T mean? O.o
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:07PM
Aurora Moon at 5:07PM, Dec. 1, 2007
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Tantz Aerine
…what does L33T mean? O.o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet

ever seen a user who spoke like this: “OMFG D00d /\u571N is t3h UBER 1337 R0XX0RZ” as an example.

that's leetspeak, or L33T. I hate it so much.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Skullbie at 8:55PM, Dec. 19, 2007
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Woah- is whoever wrote that trying to sap all the fun out of the internet?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:44PM
kyupol at 2:44PM, Dec. 20, 2007
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The only reason people are rude on the internet is because they have a feeling of security. They can get away with shit they say because they happen to be hiding behind a keyboard.

I doubt it if these same assholes on the internet are assholes in real life.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
bobhhh at 4:50PM, Dec. 20, 2007
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kyupol
The only reason people are rude on the internet is because they have a feeling of security. They can get away with shit they say because they happen to be hiding behind a keyboard.

I doubt it if these same assholes on the internet are assholes in real life.

Of course not!!! In real life you get a punch in the nose, or a smack across the cheek for being a rude asshole.

The worse you can get in a forum is banned. Even then, tech savvy users can mask their IP address if they need to assert their forum invicibliltity.

I agree we shouldn't be rude or insulting, but I am sometimes weak. I hate insistent know-it-alls who can't share opinions without insulting people and it gnaws at me when I see unchecked jerks spewing hateful nonsense.

I know I have been guilty in the past of stepping over the line, and I am truly sorry, but I will say I only do so when I allow myself to be provoked.

In the future, call it my new years resolution, I will attempted to share my insight without letting the trolls piss me off.

Bob
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
TH89 at 8:06PM, Dec. 20, 2007
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I believe internet etiquette has its place, but I reserve the right to troll and mock people as I deem necessary (unless it's against the rules, in which case I would not do it if I cared about getting banned, which depends on the forum).
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:13PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 9:20PM, Dec. 21, 2007
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bobhhh
In real life you get a punch in the nose, or a smack across the cheek for being a rude asshole.

I don't know what Mayberry like reality you live in but in the reality the rest of us live at that's called assault and has some stiff legal penalties.

Unless you're buddies with the Chief of Police, then you can kill some poor fucker and walk. But not everyone has friends in those kind of places.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Insanity at 12:12PM, Dec. 28, 2007
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ONE RULE: Don't Be A Dick.

AwesomeUnicorn
I feel a little bit like Hitler right now, too.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:01PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 4:40PM, Dec. 28, 2007
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Insanity
ONE RULE: Don't Be A Dick.

The big problem with that “one rule”, being a dick is a matter of perspective.


My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
ozoneocean at 4:52PM, Dec. 28, 2007
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That's very true, we're always a dick to someone.
You'd think with all the dicks and “assholes” abounding on the forums that people would find it easier to get it together!

Looks like we're all just too homophobic… :(
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 5:03PM, Dec. 28, 2007
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ozoneocean
That's very true, we're always a dick to someone.

Well, one mans dick is another womans love pump…
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Aurora Moon at 9:19PM, Dec. 28, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
ozoneocean
That's very true, we're always a dick to someone.

Well, one mans dick is another womans love pump…

unless that woman's an lesbian.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
TitanOne at 12:15PM, Dec. 29, 2007
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kyupol
The only reason people are rude on the internet is because they have a feeling of security. They can get away with shit they say because they happen to be hiding behind a keyboard.

I doubt it if these same assholes on the internet are assholes in real life.

Right. They can sit around in their underwear and talk tough, because they have zero expectation of being confronted physically.

“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they
can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
-The Tower of the Elephant, Robert E. Howard
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
bobhhh at 1:04PM, Dec. 29, 2007
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TitanOne
kyupol
The only reason people are rude on the internet is because they have a feeling of security. They can get away with shit they say because they happen to be hiding behind a keyboard.

I doubt it if these same assholes on the internet are assholes in real life.

Right. They can sit around in their underwear and talk tough, because they have zero expectation of being confronted physically.

“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they
can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
-The Tower of the Elephant, Robert E. Howard

I agree totally, some of these self proclaimed wiseguys crack me up with their tough talk and gleeful insults on the internet.

Yeah, if some of these people walked up to strangers at a pub and started in with their smartass remarks they might get popped. Some folks may think its not true, but in the real world many people exhibit little tolerance for wiseguys.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
donkas at 6:41PM, Dec. 29, 2007
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4chan has it right.

internet etiquitte vs /b/

=

/b/ … flawlwss victory
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:13PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 9:50AM, Jan. 2, 2008
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Aurora Moon
unless that woman's an lesbian.

Then one mans dick is a model for something that runs on four D cells…
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Aurora Moon at 9:14PM, Jan. 2, 2008
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Mister Mxyzptlk
Aurora Moon
unless that woman's an lesbian.

Then one mans dick is a model for something that runs on four D cells…

Unless that something that runs on four D batteries looks something more like this:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1148/1139319373_37740832fc.jpg
(no, it's not mine. =P )

After all, why would a lesbain want something that looks like it belongs on a man? After all, if they find men so unattractive then they're going to find the penis unattractive too.

I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Hawk at 9:06AM, Jan. 3, 2008
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I wonder if there is internet etiquette protocol for when a conversation devolves to a discussion about sex toys and genitalia.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
mapaghimagsik at 12:07PM, Jan. 3, 2008
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Aren't you talking more Godwin's law?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM

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