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Iron Man 3 and other idiotic casting choices.
Mr Kaos at 2:32AM, Dec. 26, 2010
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Sigh.
I prefer the redhaired norse god Tor. yes. He DOES have red hair in the norse mythology. At least in Denmark. You can among see him the danish comic with the norse gods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla_(comics) where he got red hair.

But the Marvel thor is not considered as thor in here. for us.. he is a comedy relief who takes himself too serious. xD
(besides he is also overpowered unlike the norse thor who got magical tools to help him out like the strength belt, gloves and of course his beloved hammer Mjöllnir)
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
mlai at 12:22AM, Dec. 27, 2010
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You can support political correctness, and I knew somebody was going to “rise to the challenge.” But blind casting is miscasting. It's the same thing as saying it's okay to have a white actor play someone who should not be white, except here it's the other way around, which doesn't somehow make it right.

Nobody except true comics geeks will know that the Marvel Aesir is not supposed to be the mythological Aesir “in a modern setting.” I'm not sure what you were trying to be sarcastic about.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
ozoneocean at 1:13AM, Dec. 27, 2010
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mlai
Nobody except true comics geeks will know that the Marvel Aesir is not supposed to be the mythological Aesir “in a modern setting.”
Mlai, man, I don't even read comic books, I mean, I've basically never read them and yet I still know- I was curious and Googled “thor” one day and read his Marvel bio. Took 5 minutes to learn that.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
mlai at 1:56AM, Dec. 27, 2010
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I can just as easily say I don't read comic books, but at least I know who Thor is and have watched some cartoons and TV shows with him in it. And even read a few comic books with him in it, gasp!

And yet, I did not know that the Marvel Aesir are not “the real Norse gods in modern day setting” unlike say, in the way The Lightning Thief's Greek gods are.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
ozoneocean at 2:23AM, Dec. 27, 2010
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mlai
I can just as easily say I don't read comic books, but at least I know who Thor is and have watched some cartoons and TV shows with him in it. And even read a few comic books with him in it, gasp!
Look Mlai, people who can't be bothered to Google the info on the comic character probably haven't read the Prose Edda or the Poetic Edda, or know anything about Sturluson or Grammaticus so it doesn't really matter what they think they “know” does it?

It just comes down to opinions and expectations.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
mlai at 11:46PM, Dec. 28, 2010
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What does one have to do with the other???

I had read the collections of Greek myths and Norse myths (repeatedly) when I was a kid, but I cba'ed to Google up details on Marvel Thor beyond knowing he's the Marvel Norse god of thunder.

I also watched all of the recent superhero movies without bothering to read any of their comics, and only know the basic facts about them (Superman came from Krypton, Batman's parents were shot, etc).

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
ozoneocean at 5:28AM, Jan. 1, 2011
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mlai
What does one have to do with the other???
Well it WAS your contention that the whole problem with the casting was that it's not true to the Norse myths and the culture it comes from…

I've painstakingly explained why it IS appropriate, and at every turn you've tried to undermine that with silly objections like “oh it's too nerdy to bother knowing that” etc.

The fact is that going by the comic source material this casting is fine.
If people want to get racist (yep, I'm using that term now) and complain it's wrong, then I also expect them to complain about Thor being shown as a blonde Aryan nazi archetype because he most CERTAINLY was not a chisel featured blonde guy with a Hollywood tan. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
lefarce at 11:45AM, Jan. 1, 2011
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Someone
blind casting is miscasting

It's not though. It is only miscasting if you cast somebody in a role where they absolutely don't belong. If we're going with a racial example, it would be like casting Edward Norton's character in American History X with a black man. It would make no goddamn sense and would count as miscasting. Casting someone in a role in which race is not crucial to the story is simple blind casting.

I want you to sit down and really think about this. You're being a huge whiney bigot because some asshole you never met cast a black guy you probably never heard of in a role for a comic book movie (which apparently you are very casual about enjoying in the first place), who will probably only say something like “wow thor, that sure is some hammer”, and then vanish for the rest of the film.

The point is; you care way too much about something entirely unimportant to telling a story. You're also coming across as being racist without a tinge of irony.

Someone
Nobody except true comics geeks will know that the Marvel Aesir is not supposed to be the mythological Aesir “in a modern setting.” I'm not sure what you were trying to be sarcastic about.

Everyone with common sense knows that because its a fucking marvel comic book you blithering idiot.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
KomradeDave at 8:53PM, Jan. 1, 2011
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This is for real a concern?
I'm with Farce on this, race is unimportant if it's not a plot point. I also don't like to call people names, but if you're expecting historical accuracy from a film based on a comic book, you're pretty retarded. I'm 100% certain there is nothing in the eddas or the archeological record that shows Thor ever met a 9 foot purple alien with a mohawk, let alone faced him in combat. There is absolutely no way this will affect anything ever in the world ever forever. Ever.

Does anyone expect that Thor and crew are going to ride on down that rainbow bridge and Heimdall's going to throw out a, “Verily, yon crackers doth trip, mine boy-of-the-home?” or that he will wear a giant sundial around his neck? (come to think of it, Flava Flav is also known for wearing a horned helmet)

Handshakes and mustaches are the only ways to know how much you can truly trust a man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
ozoneocean at 9:26AM, Jan. 2, 2011
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KomradeDave
I'm with Farce on this
With me too I hope, since I've been arguing the exact same thing all through this thread. :(

Though what I'd really like to see, just one of these days, is a big, stupid, angry, red faced Thor with ginger hair and beard, ginger complexion too. :)
And he shouldn't have “cut” muscle tone either, that's not a trait of those people. He should have beefy, flabby style muscle like those “world's strongest man” types.
Now THAT's Thor.



I'll be honest and say I couldn't give a stuff about this film anyway, I'm not into comic book movies, unless it's something cool like Hell Boy or Tank Girl.
The only way I'll be likely to see this is if someone else drags me along or I watch it on a plane or something, (and even then it'd have to be slim pickings).
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
KomradeDave at 10:30AM, Jan. 2, 2011
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Didn't mean to leave you out, Ozone. I'm always with you. Like the force. With a dapper mustache.


Here's your Thor, we just need a time machine.
Handshakes and mustaches are the only ways to know how much you can truly trust a man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
ozoneocean at 10:34AM, Jan. 2, 2011
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KomradeDave
Didn't mean to leave you out, Ozone. I'm always with you. Like the force. With a dapper mustache.


Here's your Thor, we just need a time machine.
THAT'S HIM!

Amazing O_O
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
mlai at 9:05PM, Jan. 3, 2011
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(1) I thought the Thor movie is Iron Man 3, since it was cross-advertised in Iron Man 2. Hence the mistaken thread title. I guess Thor is its own movie.

(2) In which case, like Ozone I probably won't watch the movie in the cinema, because Thor is about as appealing a property as Fantastic 4. It doesn't have any room for cinematic goodness like say Iron Man with its flawed main character. I'll probably only watch it in cinema if for some reason it turns out to be good (like say Iron Man).

(3) So, since this movie is not Iron Man 3 (I was mistaken)… I really couldn't care less if all of the Asgardians are black or Asian or smurfs.

(4) However, a big middle finger to Lefarce for the unprovoked initiation of name-calling. Last I heard, you're some bankrupt college student, yeah? It's been a while so I assume you're feeding and clothing yourself now? If I were someone like you, I wouldn't call other ppl names. But maybe that's all you can do.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
lefarce at 9:53PM, Jan. 3, 2011
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Someone
Lefarce for the unprovoked initiation of name-calling.

See here's the thing, you are actually being a big whiney racist about it. If you don't care about the property in the first place, there is literally no reason to get your dick in a knot and start crying about how a role should have went to a white man. Your issue with this begins (and ends) with the fact that you believe a role that could have been filled by a caucasian was not.



Someone
Last I heard, you're some bankrupt college student, yeah? It's been a while so I assume you're feeding and clothing yourself now? If I were someone like you, I wouldn't call other ppl names. But maybe that's all you can do.

What does any of this even mean? Yeah, I'm a college student, which means I don't have a lot of money since I'm investing it in something smart. And of course I feed and clothe myself, I don't wander the streets naked and starving. Are you high?

EDIT:



This is literally what you believe.




 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
ozoneocean at 9:11AM, Jan. 5, 2011
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Hahaha, this thread is basically over now.
Sorry to Mlai for any hard feelings!!!
And here's something for Product placement:

Non-historically accurate Vikings!!!!




…And these, even MORE non historically accurate Vikings!

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
KomradeDave at 3:35PM, Jan. 5, 2011
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I see nothing inaccurate in either of those, it's like I've been transported there.
Handshakes and mustaches are the only ways to know how much you can truly trust a man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
ayesinback at 5:47AM, Jan. 6, 2011
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Wow, nothing like taking your Thor hammers out and pounding on mlai.

I don't have issue with blindcasting per se, but it creates a statement about the work as a whole.

I recently watched “The Secret of Kells” and it seemed silly to see Black and Asian Irish monks. But the film is a fantasy with plenty of other fantastic elements — the multi-national characters just seemed to underscore the idea of “Warning: do not mistake this for something with any historical accuracy”. And considering they didn't use any place names, character names, etc., it fit just fine.

However, sometimes the rush to be all-inclusive, PC, etc., makes for a diminishment of the original character when time and place of the character is ignored. I doubt Marvel aspired to being rainbow; they just wanted an immediate ref to a beefy character that everyone knows. The thing is, we all know Thor is Nordic and not Black. It just seems like a cheap move to me.
under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
bravo1102 at 7:04AM, Jan. 6, 2011
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ozoneocean
Hahaha, this thread is basically over now.
Sorry to Mlai for any hard feelings!!!
And here's something for Product placement:

Non-historically accurate Vikings!!!!




…And these, even MORE non historically accurate Vikings!



But both of those are entirely acceptable even traditional for the producers of Wagnerian Operas. (which are not Viking but Teutonic and the differences are blurred. The ancient Germans had horns as did Celts) I wonder if anyone here has any problems with blacks or Asians cast in Wagnerian operas? But that's opera. Ask yourself how many Asians have played Madam Butterfly? There's a bigger fantasy element than in a movie. After all a great “American” opera all about the “Golden West” is sung in Italian. It's like watching a spaghetti western where the dialogue wasn't dubbed into English.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM
ozoneocean at 7:34AM, Jan. 6, 2011
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Ah, lest we forget that the northern Germans at least (dunno about the rest) shared the same gods. It's a misconception to think of them as purely Scandinavian… good old Wotan and all that.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM
ayesinback at 6:00AM, Jan. 7, 2011
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someone
But both of those are entirely acceptable even traditional for the producers of Wagnerian Operas. (which are not Viking but Teutonic and the differences are blurred. The ancient Germans had horns as did Celts)

As is my habit, I used an outdated meaning. This is from Wiki, so served with salt —
Nordic: “Historically, when Europe was dominated by the Mediterranean region (i.e. the Roman Empire), everything not near this sea was termed Northern Europe, including Germany, the Low Countries, and Austria.”

Re Teutons:
“The Teutons or Teutones (from Proto-Germanic *Þeudanōz) were mentioned as a Germanic tribe by Greek and Roman authors”

So, like some Germans (because present day Germany is a conglomeration of Many different tribes), Teutons are a subset of Germanic, as is Nordic. Re “Germans”, a large number were actually Celts (populating areas of France and stretching into the Slavic lands) and not Germanic.

As you probably know, the big advocate of dropping the “ic” from Germanic was the Jewish Austrian Hitler when creating the image of the master race, so often described as Aryan (which is a language-based word), the physical description is what we now call Nordic. frequently with horns.

Re using nonwhites in Wagner's work, I don't care, just like I don't care if whites star in a production of Porgy and Bess.

under new management
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:14AM
mlai at 6:50PM, Jan. 7, 2011
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See here's the thing, you are actually being a big whiney racist about it. If you don't care about…
(1) I said I had thought this movie is Iron Man 3. I care about Iron Man not because I care about the Marvel character, or Marvel, but because so far this franchise has had good movies.

(2) As such, I don't want to see bad blindcasting “create a wrong statement about the work as a whole.” Paraphrasing ayesinblack.

(3) Oh for F's sake. What are you so worked up about?

What does any of this even mean? Yeah, I'm a college student, which means I…
(1)How long have you been a “college student” now?

(2)I don't watch idiotic Youtube memes. Link ignored.

Secret Of Kells:
Oh right, the black and Spanish monks! I forgot about them. I suppose they didn't bother me because the entire cartoon was so stylized that you could easily ignore their ethnicity. If everything was drawn more realistically, or if the monks were more than comedic peanut gallery, such as if they acted or had roles more like actual monks in Ireland (like the main cast), I would have a bigger problem with it. Because I particularly like my Celtic-related entertainment to be somewhat historically accurate.

Madam Butterfly:
Miscasting. But most Asians just don't sing/like Wagnerian opera, so that's a pretty valid excuse.

Why do anybody like opera…?

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
lefarce at 10:27PM, Jan. 7, 2011
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In it for about two an a half years now working on a four year degree, so again I'm not sure what is supposed to even be remotely insulting about what you're saying. Also it isn't a meme, it's a clip from Mr.Show.

You are the hugest snot when it comes to losing an argument. Could somebody please lock this thread, or at least change the title to “flexing internet white trash makes a fool out of himself”?

PS, thank you for the itemized lists, I just don't know how I could possibly follow along with your post otherwise!

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
Dragonizer at 10:38PM, Jan. 7, 2011
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mlai
stupid illogical things about LeFarce

None of this makes any sense, dude. But alas, there is no cure for stupidity.

Oh sorry, was that too hard to understand? Let me rephrase:

1.) None of this makes any sense, dude.
2.) There is no cure for stupidity.
K.A.L.A.-dan! Morality Pet >:3
The end of time will be the end of guilt.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:16PM
ozoneocean at 11:09PM, Jan. 7, 2011
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Hey, no need for flat out insults and acrimony.

This was a legitimate thread, started by Mlai because he's got an interest in casting ethnicity. I believe he's Chinese himself (?), so he comes at this from a different perspective.
Anyway, I'm locking this now.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:37PM

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