Debate and Discussion

Is angst in right now?
JillyFoo at 8:31AM, April 6, 2006
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Kyupol stated a few weeks ago that angst is in. I must ask the public opinion in this issue. Is angst cool in webcomics? Is angst “in” in everything?

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:08PM
ozoneocean at 9:13AM, April 6, 2006
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This probably has to do with the current target audience of most pop-culture. Teens/young adults generally always go through angsty stages, so media that exploits that theme and is aimed at those age groups is always relatively popular.

That's my take on it…

If the main focus of pop-culture shits back to an older audience again (ever), the message will probably change to reflect that.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
marine at 1:53PM, April 6, 2006
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Just look at how popular the gothy shit is now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Inkmonkey at 2:49PM, April 6, 2006
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There's a lot of angst stuff out right now, but there's too much going on to generalize too much. Angsty, sad-girl in snow comic Megatokyo has been on a slow decline in popularity for a few years now, while upbeat, sarcastic Penny Arcade has seen an odd resurgence lately.

Drama has always been a big draw, because it's something we can all relate to and react with. Some things try to exploit that or don't see beyond the drama. For me, though, an “angst” or “emo” story features a lot of a character feeling sorry for him/herself or complaining about the problems in their lives, whereas a “good” comic has people freakin' doing something about it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
Hawk at 12:29AM, April 7, 2006
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Very well said, Inkmonkey. And KC3T LV. In fact, I was going to open my post with “Angst is stupid” until I noticed that was already done for me.

Angst is for sissies who don't want to fix the problems in their lives so they lock themselves in their rooms while listening to depressing music and wait for somebody to take notice and fix the problems for them.

Angst is for kids in junior high who can't stand the fact that the world isn't exactly like they want it to be so they decide they don't want to be a part of it.

Angst is for dumb people on Xanga and Myspace with names like “Dark_heart_vampire” and “de4thSpyr3” who make whiny depressing posts as if somebody cared and they steal artwork from my website without asking.

Sorry, I just don't like angst. There's just too much to enjoy in the world to be sitting around trying to spread your grumpy rain cloud.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
skoolmunkee at 2:11AM, April 7, 2006
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I think angst is restricted to a certain age range.

I think it is probably a socio-cultural thing. I think that each generation gets more privileged and self-centered than the one before, and then grows out of it later. Your grandparents were probably not self-centered, your parents probably were somewhat, you probably were at some point, and the current generation seems more self-centered than you remember being (and probably is). That is probably a whole other discussion topic altogether, but it's my personal opinion. :)

When I talk about being self-centered, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are selfish. Just that your world view and your concerns at the time primarily have to do with only issues relating to yourself. Things that are happening to you (or things to which you can strongly relate) have primary emotional importance for you. Angst and self-centeredness are fairly closely related concepts. People who are self-centered like to think about themselves and their own problems.

This is also psychological. There is a stage of development which happens in your teens and twenties where you are finally able to apply empathy to other people. for instance, with children, you have to tell them “would you like it if someone did that to YOU?” before they understand that it's bad. That doesn't become a natural path of thought until that stage is reached.

Some people never reach it, never natually think beyond their own reactions, never are able to apply emotion or responsibility to other people. Those are the sociopaths (which is a clinical term and not used the way many TV shows would have you think).
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:38PM
Inkmonkey at 8:08PM, April 7, 2006
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I'd argue that as well, Finbar. The ‘80s was a time of industrialization and cheap marketing ploys as much as the 90’s were. I don't think comparing the hippies to the soldiers of WWII is all that fair either, since WWII and Vietnam were two very different wars.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
skoolmunkee at 8:28AM, April 8, 2006
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FinbarReilly
I'd say it's every other generation that's selfish, and then the next is selfish, and that it's only when there's nothing major.

I didn't say selfish, I said self-centered. :) I even made that distinction in my post. They are two seperate (although related) concepts.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:38PM
mykill at 9:04AM, April 8, 2006
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Angst is a reliable theme always certain to attract a given percentage of teen agers and adults who can relate- themselves being full of angst, or feeling that they should be.

But culturally right now this minute we're experiencing a backlash to too much irony and angst: Look at American Idol, Barry Manilow's released collection of songs from the 50's has gone gold and may go platinum.

So, I'm sad to say. Angst right now is tired and trite. The bleeding edge is corny sentimentalism without a shred of irony.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:09PM
Aurora Moon at 4:53PM, April 13, 2006
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Angst is okay once in a while, but not all the time or else it just gets ridiclous.

and a certain somebody metioned Goths as being part of that stupid fad in this thread…

And I have to tell that certain somebody, Goths aren't always depressed 24/7, that's just a fucking sterotype. I should know, I'm a goth. and I do actually *gasp* smile at times, and despite my jaded view on humanity and the world, I can actually be quite opmsitic at times.

Being goth is basically about embracing the “dark” in certain things and regonizing that there can be no light without dark. for example, some goths celebrate and respect death by hanging out in graveyards as an reminider to themselves that life is precious, and shouldn't ever be taken for granted.

And also before the goth music movement, it was actually an movement in which goths were protesting against America becoming too money-greedy. you know, hosptials and stores putting money over human beings first. no longer does people care about what happens to another human being; no longer does many people actually vaule an life as much as they do money. that was what goths of yesterday were protesting against. that's why they existed as an group in the first place.

However, there's always a few people in EVERY group that's an lame attention-seeking whore, which gives the certain group an bad name.
take Emos right now for instance. lately there's a lot of people out there who loves to make fun of Emos, and slander the name of Emo just because there's a lot of attention whores who's taking up that name so that they can enjoy being picked on and therefore enjoy being angsty.
despite the fact that most of the so called “emo” attention whores doesn't actually listen to Emo music at all.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
kyupol at 10:15PM, April 13, 2006
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As a creator of an angst comic, here's my take on this.

I feel like I've hit two birds in one stone doin it. I got to vent out my frustrations with the world. Yes I've got alot of things to be frustrated and angry about… and things from the past that I think are “unfinished business”. Instead of feeling pain all the time, I kind of have my way of turning that pain into pleasure.

Something along those lines. Yeah its hard to explain but I also like BDSM and mixed martial arts. Pain makes sexual acts exciting… and hitting people and getting hit fulfills some sort of weird pleasure.

I got beaten up, ridiculed, isolated alot of times in the past. My family sux, my relatives suck, always had to fight somebody in school, no shoulder to cry to during painful experiences… Mama and dada used to say hurtful words all the time and physically hurt me… yea it was tough for me growin up. It was like a fuckin warzone for me growin up.



And secondly, I help make other people like me feel better. I've had people comment on my comic or email me sayin they could relate to what I write about, etc… etc… something along those lines.

Hearing angst coming from other people makes you feel that you're not alone. Its like an assurance sayin… “Hey buddy, we're in this together!!!”

No wonder all these metalcore, emo, gangsta rap, etc… is getting so damn popular. This is what these genres of music cater to. angst.


“Yeah yeah… whatever. Stop whining!!! Look forward and get over it!!!” Well… FUCK YOU! You dont know shit at all! Don't fuckin judge me unless you've been through it too!!!






…………………………………………………
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:24PM
Inkmonkey at 6:38AM, April 14, 2006
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kYuPoL
“Yeah yeah… whatever. Stop whining!!! Look forward and get over it!!!” Well… FUCK YOU! You dont know shit at all! Don't fuckin judge me unless you've been through it too!!!

As someone who who's been through some pretty depressing times, and has several friends who have as well, I can say that sitting around feeling sorry for yourself or touting your tragedies for attention is a very unhealthy thing to do. By glorifying these events, you force yourself into a cyclical pattern of depression.

So… yeah. “Get over it” :wink: .
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
blackaby at 2:20AM, April 19, 2006
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I remember back in the old days when angst was out, and people used to beat up goths instead of buy their records, and whiney kids got laughed out of the internet instead of creating their own myspace army. I'm pretty sure that angst is in right now, and it frustrates me - like other people have said, I don't feel it's at all healthy to focus on the negative aspects of life.

Okay, so I'm not the best example of positive thinking, as Zwuh may testify (but won't if he knows what's good for him), and I do use the internet for the odd ‘cathartic’ kind of emotion-dump, but my particular breed of neuroticism doesn't even come close to matching the navel-gazing, wallowing types I've come across - people who don't really have any serious problems, but seem to manufacture them for attention.

I'm somewhat goth - I used to promote goth clubs in the nineties - and I do wear black 99% of the time. We can be happy. And we can wear black and be happy.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
Aurora Moon at 3:46AM, April 19, 2006
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blackaby
I'm somewhat goth - I used to promote goth clubs in the nineties - and I do wear black 99% of the time. We can be happy. And we can wear black and be happy.

yep. in fact 90% of goths are pretty much like that. the other 10% is pretty much just people living up to the sterotype and manufacture thier own so-called depression for attention.

in fact, it's pretty much like that for every group… for the 90% that are just normal people who likes to dress a certain way and listen to certain music, there is the 10% who are pretty much attention whores.

like punks, for example. there's plenty of people who just loves that punk music and the scene, and finds the clothing very comfortable.. but then there's always the occisonal person who overdo it in that mohawk hairstyle with bright colors, tons of peiricngs and what not just so that they can feed off the attention they get just by walking down the street.

so when you think about it, every group, even the ones that aren't known for angst, has their own attention whores.

even the happy postive things could easily be turned into an super ridiclous thing by the attention whores out there.

so Angst is just Angst. it just simply exists. it's just what people does with the angst that counts, you know?

Angst can be turned into a positive thing, especially if the people with actual, genuine problems used art and writing as an outlet to write fantastic stuff.

For example, I know an writer who has some emotional, depression problems, but she always used her writing as an outlet for that. her works always ends up as brilliant works that people like to read. and it's not that ridiculous piece of over-angst… but mostly like those romance stories, you know? and also stuff that is really realistic, with characters you can identity with.

the other hand, there's those people who doesn't really know Angst as seeing they haven't actually genuinely felt it, who writes those ridilcious pieces of work where there's so much angst, and none of it is even realstic.

so I would have to say it's what you do with that sort of stuff that counts.

Angst isn't a bad thing. it lets you appreciate the finer things in life.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
ccs1989 at 11:54AM, April 19, 2006
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I don't like angst. Usually an undeveloped story will use ‘angst’ because they haven't developed it into a real ‘sorrow’ yet. I think angst is like psuedo sorrow. It strikes me as annoying and whiney.
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“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
SarahN at 4:28PM, April 19, 2006
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One of the reasons why I'm considering getting rid of the narration in my comic is that it makes Jack seem a bit more….“woe-is-me”ish than I originally intended. I mean, yes Jack went through hell, is angsty and all but in reality he isn't one to “complain” or talk about it.

As for my vamps and the whole goth thing….well, I don't know. Most of the time I think: vampires = black clothes. Though it really depends on the character.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
ccs1989 at 5:25PM, April 19, 2006
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My favorite comics are Berserk and Hellsing. Now in Berserk, Guts basically goes through hell. However he's not one to sit there a whine about it. Nope. He takes it like a man. He goes, with his ridiculouly long zanbatou-kinda sword thing and fuckin STICKS IT TO THE MAN! With all the revenge and stuff.

Yeah, that little rant doesn't do Berserk justice, but it's sorta along the lines of the plot.

Anyway, then in Hellsing Sereas is kinda bitchy, but Alucard is totally badass to make up for that. I mean, name one other manga (besides Berserk, but Berserk does it in a different way) in which a character spends 1/3 of a volume completely killing people. I mean, you can probably name a few, but none are as classy as Hellsing.

But Hellsing really isn't a ‘great’ manga story wise. It's just orgasmically awesome to read. I'm sure if sorrow was in Hellsing it'd seem angsty. Berserk get's the feel of real ‘sorrow’ in some parts. Other really well developed graphic novels can get sorrow down pat and never slip into the angst thing. Watchmen does a great job. It makes you believe everything Rorchach says about his life is tragic. No ‘woe-is me’-ing there.
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“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM

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