Debate and Discussion

Is Manga art more popular than American art?
Hewy at 1:27PM, June 13, 2007
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I personally have no problem with either style, but it feels manga is becoming a common art style now. I feel that the manga style is also rubbing off on American style art work which creates sometimes a nice hybrid look. I was just wondering if anyone else feels that manga art has grown drasticlly in the comic world.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
Phantom Penguin at 2:08PM, June 13, 2007
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Theres circles of popularity.

The insane fanboys/girls of manga.

The super-freaks of marvel. Personally I like them both (Punisher is my favorite comic ever).
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Hewy at 2:32PM, June 13, 2007
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i just wonder which has more of a strong hold on DD. It would be cool to see like a stat or something of which one draws the biggest traffic.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
ozoneocean at 2:54PM, June 13, 2007
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Technically it's better to say “Japanese style comics” VS “American style comics”. Basically, if you ever sell your comic to the Japanese it WILL be manga, whatever style you use. This isn't a pedantic point either, that's just how it is, all comics are “Manga”, it's as simple as that. I mean, I've just been looking into doing some minor stuff with a Japanese company who were interested in my “manga”.

Really stylised American comics are and can be just as stale looking as really stylised Japanese comics. Personally I'd prefer not to see American comics imitating Japanese styles (even though I don't read them), but sometimes that can be good… It works well for animation: Teen Titans and Powerpuff girls etc benefit from the influence.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:27PM
Phantom Penguin at 2:59PM, June 13, 2007
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Here on DD theres tons of Japanese influenced comics. But theres tons of other comics that don't really fit into a regional style.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Hewy at 6:13PM, June 13, 2007
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ozoneocean
Technically it's better to say “Japanese style comics” VS “American style comics”. Basically, if you ever sell your comic to the Japanese it WILL be manga, whatever style you use. This isn't a pedantic point either, that's just how it is, all comics are “Manga”, it's as simple as that. I mean, I've just been looking into doing some minor stuff with a Japanese company who were interested in my “manga”.

Really stylised American comics are and can be just as stale looking as really stylised Japanese comics. Personally I'd prefer not to see American comics imitating Japanese styles (even though I don't read them), but sometimes that can be good… It works well for animation: Teen Titans and Powerpuff girls etc benefit from the influence.

that's true.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
kyupol at 6:31PM, June 13, 2007
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Apparently it is.

I think its popularity is due to the fact that its an easier style to draw than American art.

In marvel comics, you have to be an expert in drawing realistic faces. While in manga, it is easier to learn how to draw it.

I was an uber-noob at drawing… and I experimented on various art styles, but found the manga style to be the easiest to imitate.

Art schools (in Toronto… since I've visited these schools) tend to look down on your portfolio if it has manga drawings in it. lol they'll think youre a NOOB no matter how good you reason out. I even told em… BUT THIS IS ANIMATION!!! YOU DRAW CARTOONS IN ANIMATION!!! And they were like… YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO DRAW REALISTICALLY. And I was like… demn… :(
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Aurora Moon at 7:41PM, June 13, 2007
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Well.. kyupol, people are unfair like that.

But in a way they do have a point. it's one thing to start out with what seems the easiest to you, but you can't always stick with one style forever even if it's easy for you. Its better to learn how to draw the other styles out there…even realstic style… it helps you set your own style, and shows others that you aren't just only good at manga and nothing more.

I do find it moronic when some people diss me for drawing Japanese style even when I showed them that I can do realstic style too as well, though.

I also find people who super-hates the realstic style of say, marvel and stuff moronic too.

it's like while people do have their own personal prefference on some things, they shouldn't be such an ass about it.

It's like I dislike the marvel style greatly because it's something that feels old and overused to me. But I certainly don't go out of my way to tell my fellow artists who draws in the realstic/or marvel style that they competely suck and that they're just a Noob for drawing something that only they're used to.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
StaceyMontgomery at 7:51PM, June 13, 2007
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I think we're heading into a great period - if I pick up a Marvel comic, I'm likely to see all kinds of manga influences. If I pick up a new manga book, Im just as likely to see a strong western influence.

I know my own art gets called “western” - but I think of myself as being very manga influenced in my approach. Apparently no one sees it but me - thats OK, so long as they like it!

I'm looking forward to new styles and fusions showing up in the near future.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Aurora Moon at 8:09PM, June 13, 2007
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I can certainly see the manga infulces in your work,stacey. =3

mostly in the nose area and in some of the expressions.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Hewy at 9:41PM, June 13, 2007
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StaceyMontgomery
I think we're heading into a great period - if I pick up a Marvel comic, I'm likely to see all kinds of manga influences. If I pick up a new manga book, Im just as likely to see a strong western influence.

I know my own art gets called “western” - but I think of myself as being very manga influenced in my approach. Apparently no one sees it but me - thats OK, so long as they like it!

I'm looking forward to new styles and fusions showing up in the near future.

That's the beauty of art. I personally love the hybrid style between the two. Its like the best of both worlds where you can somewhat find a happy merger.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
Hawk at 9:43PM, June 13, 2007
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The way I see it, Japanese-styled comics peaked and they're sort of declining now. At least I hope so. Maybe this sounds mean or ignorant, but I hate seeing the internet become so saturated with the manga style. It's why I started distancing myself from it. I don't automatically think less of authors or comics that use a Japanese style, but I start to if I sense the style is being used as a crutch. I also don't much enjoy comics that strive to closely emulate an established manga artist's style.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
EvilJared at 3:03AM, June 14, 2007
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yeah, i would say manga style is more popular. at least around these parts it is. there's some people that are just immediately turned off by the marvel/dc style and wont go anywhere near it. it seems the manga style has brought in a whole new audience to comics that otherwise wouldn't be caught dead reading words with pictures under them.
PorQ me
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
lothar at 8:47AM, June 14, 2007
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ozoneocean
Technically it's better to say “Japanese style comics” VS “American style comics”. Basically, if you ever sell your comic to the Japanese it WILL be manga, whatever style you use. This isn't a pedantic point either, that's just how it is, all comics are “Manga”, it's as simple as that. I mean, I've just been looking into doing some minor stuff with a Japanese company who were interested in my “manga”.

yea ! the title of this thread confused me for a moment when i read it ! to me the words manga and comics are the same thing ! it would be the same as if you said “ is comic art more popular than Japanese art?” but maybe that's just cuz i live in Japan .

and i'm happy to hear that they're interested in your work Ozone !
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
StaceyMontgomery at 10:40AM, June 14, 2007
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I have to say, i grew up most with western style comics, and I couldn't be happier about the spread of japanese style comics. Some years ago there was a real threat that comics in the US would die out. The average Marvel/DC fan is getting older - and new kids weren't starting to read comics much - the artform in the US was looking a bit doomed. Yesterday I went to a bookstore and there was a huge wall of Manga paperbacks (A much more convenient form than the standard US comic anyways).

This is all great news. i love comics, and the medium is healthy and growing. What's not to like?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Kohdok at 12:26PM, June 14, 2007
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It is obvious that there is a severe Japanese-style influence in my artwork, but I still like to consider my work to be American. I mean, the setting is in America, the characters have American looks and American names, it's written in the Left-to-right American formant, and I'm an American. My art just happens to be influenced by the Japanese. Personally, I got fascinated with comics thanks to the vibrant and awesome images I found in the Toshihiro Ono manga I picked up when I was eleven.

At All-Con earlier this year, We got into a discussion on a panel done by the guy who does Heroblog about why Japanese comics have had a rising interest in the States. One of the speculations was the fact that, while the older American comics tended to cover more genres, the only major genre left in American comics is the superhero comic. The romantic and true-to-life comics have fallen by the wayside in America. In Japan, however, the romantic and true-to-life stories still hold fashion and are still constantly being produced. Americans have become a little disillusioned due to the amount of superhero comics in the States and have started to crave more of the genres that the Japanese have made.

So, to put it simply, Japanese comics cover a larger variety of genres and thus are attracting more people.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:19PM
marine at 11:34AM, June 15, 2007
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There is no style, its just “lets copy japan lol” or “needs more muscles, pouches, and tig bitties!”
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
ccs1989 at 10:11AM, June 16, 2007
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Well if you look at sales you'll see that American comics and trade paper backs consistently outsell manga every single month. That is, no manga has ever sold more than an American comic in a single month in America. Overall though all the manga sales probably outdoes the American comic sales at some point, and there are probably more manga fans than American comics fans out there.

The “art style” of manga (if it's possible to narrow it down that much) is definitely more popularized though.



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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
SteveMyers22 at 3:21PM, June 18, 2007
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This is just a tiny part of this particular topic, but I felt the need to share … I don't think Marvel's top artists really draw in the marvel house style anymore. Lienel Yu's certainly not “Drawing Comics the Marvel Way.” Frank Cho, of Liberty Meadows? Nah, I don't see his stuff fitting into the Stan, Jack and Jazzy John formula. Steve McNiven? Great stuff. But not something I'd put next to Don Heck and go, wow see that house style!

There's some good to that (opens mainstream comics up to a whole host of other interpretations that may never have been published 10, 15, 20 years ago). And some bad (the marvel house style worked at a pretty basic level … exciting dynamic comics all about action and adventure and even though McNiven's art is fantastic, the action's kind of static).

But that's just super hero comics. And super hero comics are a pretty narrow part of the entire comics field. Especially these days.

Hey, Manga's fun. Let it run wild over the western comics audience I say. Maybe it'll take us to some new places.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:58PM
mlai at 9:26AM, June 21, 2007
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Manga art is not easier to draw than Marvel art. That's rubbish.

Bad manga art is just as easy to draw as bad Marvel art.

If you have difficulty emulating Marvel art to satisfaction, chances are your manga styled art is just as amateur. Just that you can't see it for yourself.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
Greaney at 11:52PM, June 27, 2007
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see i like to think that both are as popular as on another, however i dont like to see american style cartoons (such as teen titans) that attempt to use manga and chibi style elements to draw in that audience, its somwhat pathetic.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:38PM
Aurora Moon at 12:27AM, June 28, 2007
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mlai
Manga art is not easier to draw than Marvel art. That's rubbish.

Bad manga art is just as easy to draw as bad Marvel art.

If you have difficulty emulating Marvel art to satisfaction, chances are your manga styled art is just as amateur. Just that you can't see it for yourself.

exactly.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
wyldflowa at 9:24AM, June 28, 2007
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I think the bottom line of it may just be that manga art is more appealing than Western art. There is a lot of emphasis on cuteness and beauty and making things look attractive~ Take the Simpsons as an example of one type of Western art then take, I dunno, a character from a CLAMP manga and compare their attractiveness… I for one don't really think the Simpsons are very cute or appealing but Sakura from Cardcaptors in a her cute clothes and big eyes… she's just prettier. That said, The Simpsons use humour to win over fans… but in terms of pure visual appeal, manga comes out tops.

Plus there's the whole subject of manga having more emotion. Western comics seem to be either concentrated on humour or action… I'm sure there are exceptions but that's the impression I get. Manga hosts a whole spectrum of genres and there will always be a story somewhere that a person can really relate to.


Saying manga art is easier to draw is codswallop. Every art style has easy bits and hard bits~ >_O
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:52PM
zirnitra at 9:51AM, June 28, 2007
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thing about manga and anime is that it is just south of impossible to develop your own unique style to it. I have sen countless anime pictures all over the webernets and they all look the same. Manga is a very generic artform. I could draw manga just a few months after I had picked up a pencil.

That's not to say there is a difference between different animes. Anyone can tell you Death Note and Dragonball Z look nothing alike. The thing is, most anime artists DO go for the generic, shiny, big-eyed catgirl things that have already gained mass appeal, thus limiting actual need for your own personal style. This is also coupled with the fact that most anime characters have a set list of facial expressions that can just be taken from anything and added to your character's face to convey the same emotion.

I'm not keen on comparing manga to AMERICAN art though, because manga and anime are a specific art style, whereas American art consists of many different styles. So all in all, I would say American art is more popular.

As far as western/anime hybrids, excuse me for being blunt, but those things disgust me. It really is just taking some aspects of American art (like cel-shading and American themes) and giving the characters the twiggy, big-eyed anime makeover.
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:02PM
wyldflowa at 10:44AM, June 28, 2007
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zirnitra
I'm not keen on comparing manga to AMERICAN art though, because manga and anime are a specific art style, whereas American art consists of many different styles. So all in all, I would say American art is more popular.
I knew compiling these images might be useful in the future~

Manga is not a specific art style - the word “manga” itself just means “comics” in Japanese. There are some stylistic similarities within the name - such as the big eyes and the small mouths - but these can be tweaked and varied to create a whole host of different styles like I've shown in the picture there. Manga art can be very stylized and simplistic or gritty and realistic… but it'll still be manga. The same way Family Guy and Superman are totally different on every level but they're both still “American art”.

And I think I've got a pretty unique manga “style” that I've developed and it's done nothing but be good to me. ;) Plus I feel much happier doing that than I would playing it safe and drawing some generic purple-haired bug-eyed schoolgirl rubbish.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:52PM
Sea_Cow at 11:02AM, June 28, 2007
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I have to agree with wyldflowa on this one. I see no similarity there. Some animes look like they all have the same artist, though.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:24PM
Rori at 2:46PM, June 28, 2007
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I hear a lot of the Illustration majors at my college complain about teachers that won't accept their Japanese-style art and force them to try other styles and learn about other styles. I really don't know what their problem is: you're at school to learn! If you don't like it once you've tried it, fine. It's important to learn about Tom Nast, Will Eisner and others, and that doesn't detract from what you like, or the validity of Japanese-style. But I've also heard people complain about having to take figure drawing classes–which is beyond me.

So the short answer is, yes, it's definately a big influence on young illustrators.

A weird aside about style evolution: one of my typography professors told me about a development in graffiti, where by using large rollers to apply paint to the side of buildings, a fractur style of lettering has developed. This in places worlds away from Germany. I just find it interesting that sometimes commonality develops by necessity rather than direct influence.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:11PM
Kohdok at 2:54PM, June 28, 2007
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Rori
I hear a lot of the Illustration majors at my college complain about teachers that won't accept their Japanese-style art and force them to try other styles and learn about other styles. I really don't know what their problem is: you're at school to learn! If you don't like it once you've tried it, fine. It's important to learn about Tom Nast, Will Eisner and others, and that doesn't detract from what you like, or the validity of Japanese-style. But I've also heard people complain about having to take figure drawing classes–which is beyond me.

I know! They're silly for complaining! Taking even one figure drawing class has done leaps and bounds for my artwork. I draw in a definitely Japanese style, but I agree that you should try everything.

It was true of Picasso. He could draw perfectly good people from a very young age, I feel he moved on to Cubism because he got bored with what he normally did. At least, that's my theory.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
maciapaladin at 4:04PM, June 28, 2007
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Well, if you have comics AT ALL in your portfolio, regardless of style, most art and design colleges will frown upon that. They want to see much more than just sequential art. Even if that is the college's specialty.

One thing that I did not see covered is “Manga Fusion”, which is a particular blend of Japanese art influences combined with American influenced paneling/story flow. I personally employ this brand of art into my story. For years, I did my fanfics and comics in a vastly different style that relied on realism. After a while, I decided I just didn't like it anymore. But as for “Manga Fusion” (which is an American term for the subgenre), you must address a key feature of Japanese comics: paneling and minimalist page structure. They just FLOW differently. If they went for hyper-realism and kept the panel structure, the style is Japanese. However, if you take the Japanese style (which is HEAVILY borrowed from Disney, I might add. Perhaps a discussion on Osamu Tezuka can be started at a later date) and arrange the paneling so that the story flows more like a MOVIE, then art style is irrelevant. The story is told in “American” style. That's the true defining characteristic of the genre.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
zirnitra at 4:40PM, June 28, 2007
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wyldflowa



also, there's a reason people don't call anime just “cartoons” and manga just “comics”. It's because of the stylistic differences.
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:02PM

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