General Discussion

Is nudity a bad thing?
Largominus2004 at 8:34PM, Dec. 24, 2007
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Ziffy88
yeah I could see why someone would not like it and be very offended by it, it is exploitive and it does demean women

I hope you are not talking about my characters. I mean what is so offensive about a woman standing up for another and using her skill and strength to do so? Is that exploitation, or is the little breast thing that you see as an issue here? I mean if I was trying to help or finish a task and my johnson was haning out, I am pretty sure I'd stick to the cause at hand, especially if I could care less about the whole nudity factor…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:27PM
ozoneocean at 9:06PM, Dec. 24, 2007
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Hahaha, we already addressed that aspect and Ziff is in the minority with that statement, and I think, if you read on, he actually mollified that somewhat ;)

Either way, he's entitled to that position, no matter how much we all disagree with it :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Largominus2004 at 9:25PM, Dec. 24, 2007
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Right on Ozone but I wanted to add my comment just to be certain, lol. I haven't been able to get on the site until tonight and want to make certain to respond to everyone. I just had no idea there would be so much to read. ha ha ha
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:27PM
Inkmonkey at 7:15AM, Dec. 25, 2007
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Largominus2004
Oh and another thing I want to make quite clear about the web comic. The comic may not reflect this to some of you, and maybe that's due to my writing skills (thus Michael Raymond Judy has taken over the writing) but these female characters are not sex objects, they are actually very intelligent, skilled, yet beautiful survivors. Bianka just doesn't care about her breast hanging out, she is focused on getting the sword, that's all. As the comic plays out you will begin to see this.I emailed the concerned person this…

Bianka is a tomboy who could care less and Gatan is a bit prudish and likes her clothes. Una is from a tribalistic region and would normally cover herself but as the dirty old shaman said, the magic paint wouldn't take effect if covered by clothes. The paint/dye appears to work since neither Tyrania or Rigor Mortis could not see her. Pages 4 and 5 show this and yeah it doesn't read well but again, I spend my time illustrating only now. While Michael has just recently taken the writing over. Please don't take the nudity as a sex thing but as part of a developing set of events and character personality traits. As I said earlier it's pretty obvious that Bianka doesn't seem to care and that's Bianka for you. Thank you everyone, I appreciate the posts very much ^^

I'm not normally one to say this, but…

Bullshit.

The T&A is fan service. There are aspects of the character that explain the nudity, but don't come in here and pretend that drawing a bunch of sexy ladies with their tits hanging out is somehow deep.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
Ziffy88 at 11:27AM, Dec. 25, 2007
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Please they are as deep as Transformers or the girl in Disturbia what is with Shia LaBoff and stupid women…I mean yeesh
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:01PM
ozoneocean at 5:34PM, Dec. 25, 2007
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Ink. I dunno how manyartists even think in terms of “fanservice”. That's a calculated depection of female (or male) part in a certain way in order to manipulate audience reaction, popularised by manga. I myself never thought about that aspect, I just have scenes with bums in them because it's part of how I draw and would be bizarre for me not to. I was shocked initially when commentors started thanking me “for the fan service”.

And I imagine a lot of artists are exactly the same, “fan-service” would never come into it because it's simply not he way they think. And that's the route of it: we don't all think about things the same way. Nudity for some is something titillating, shocking, or naughty, that should be used with care. For others it's as much a part of life as anything else and having a chance to show it in a scene to them is like having a chance to draw a fancy flowing cloak or stylish hat or something.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Largominus2004 at 8:37AM, Dec. 26, 2007
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Inkmonkey
I'm not normally one to say this, but…

Bullshit.

The T&A is fan service. There are aspects of the character that explain the nudity, but don't come in here and pretend that drawing a bunch of sexy ladies with their tits hanging out is somehow deep.

Dude, Ink, chill out. I wasn't implying that the breasts were deep. I was merely saying that the characters have a personality or a social trait that allows for some nudity. Man, the whole purpose as Ozone put it quite well, is not to offend or solely play up the fan service card, it fits the characters and the developing story. I am sorry that you feel so strong about this and maybe I am fooling myself here but I may actually believe what I am saying to be true. I did after all create and illustrate the comic. Fan service, if that's how you see it, may have been drawn as a part of those panels but was not the sole purpose of the panel, nor is it the sole purpose of my damned comic. Did you look at the rest of the panel? I mean there's a lot more going on than just a panel of a boob.

But I do understand your opinion, and thanks for sharing…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:27PM
Inkmonkey at 9:08AM, Dec. 26, 2007
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Personally, I'm not bothered by boobs in a comic. I'm bothered because it insults my intelligence the way you act like the nudity simply “happens”, and is beyond your control because that's just the personality that the characters have. Ozone's response is more honest: he just prefers to draw that way. In his own comics characters have reasons for wearing clothing that is revealing, but he admits that he does that simply because that's what he wants to do. If your response was “I like drawing half-naked women, so I made that part of the series”, sure. That's fine. Who doesn't? But by saying essentially, “Oh, I can't help the nudity. The characters in my comic don't care whether or not they're naked, so it's bound to happen eventually, despite my best efforts,” you're lying to us, and to yourself. Nudity does not simply “happen”, it's a conscious effort, and an effort you have taken. It's nothing to be ashamed of, so just own up to it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
Largominus2004 at 9:25AM, Dec. 26, 2007
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Ziffy88
Please they are as deep as Transformers or the girl in Disturbia what is with Shia LaBoff and stupid women…I mean yeesh

Ziffy, your comment is just plain rude and has no merit. The reason why I know this for a fact is because I haven't even had a moment where the characters could simply converse with one another outside of a battle. It's been all brawl and seriously, the comic is only 24 pages old. How can you know anything about their personalities yet. But you still throw a comment like that at me and all of the hard work I've done to share the comic. Nice and thank you for your visceral comment…

As an artist, it is my job to generate a response to my work and I apparently have done that well…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:27PM
Largominus2004 at 9:39AM, Dec. 26, 2007
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And Ink I can respect your honest opinion and as I admitted before, time and time again. The breasts weren't an act of god, I drew them but not for the sole purpose of fan service. A woman and a man's naked body are not objects of fan service. We are all naked underneath our disguises. And to finish this back and forth discussion, the views I shared in this forum are simply the way I feel about my hard work and you aren't going to change my nor am I going to change your mind. I love the forum posts you and I have had and I am sorry if I came across intensionally trying to insult your intelligence. I was just sharing some thought and was not looking to insult. So lets just be friends and move on from this subject.

Thank you,
Kristoffer Stout
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:27PM
kyupol at 10:45AM, Dec. 26, 2007
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5 pages and counting…
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
TheMidge28 at 11:31AM, Dec. 26, 2007
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boobs for boobs-sake is just wrong!

…um
…what the hell am I saying!?

We draw what we enjoy drawing.
Ozone loves bums.
I love boobs.
its that simple.
I don't think fanservice comes into it at all.
Artists draw what they enjoy drawing.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:23PM
Largominus2004 at 1:32PM, Dec. 26, 2007
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Thanks TheMidge28 ^^

Much appreciated!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:27PM
spacehamster at 5:28PM, Dec. 26, 2007
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ozoneocean
And I imagine a lot of artists are exactly the same, “fan-service” would never come into it because it's simply not he way they think.

Well… I dunno about that. I don't think of fit as “fanservice” (what a strange term that is, anyway), but when I'm drawing an attractive female, I'm certainly aware that I'm drawing an attractive female, and when I put her in a skimpy spandex outfit that accentuates her physical… assets, I'm very much aware that that's what I'm doing. And there's certainly a fair amount of that going on in Bulletproof.

But it's not so much that I draw this stuff because I think people want to look at boobies when they read my comic - frankly, I'd hate for it to be thought of as a cheesecake comic. I just enjoy drawing hot chicks, like Midge said. Sometimes it actually kind of creeps me out on some level when guys say this or that that I've drawn is “sexy” because all of these characters are really just figments of my imagination.

But I think it would be pretty silly to claim that I don't know I'm drawing a pair of tits when I'm drawing a pair of tits.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:50PM
Ziffy88 at 5:46PM, Dec. 26, 2007
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hey largo sorry I'm just being facetious with the lack of wit. Anywhooo…one thing you can do whatever you want. Me, I can't draw well so that kind of ruins the idea of me drawing fanservice or anything attractive, but really sometimes it just feels like we're being pandered towards from the comic book industry(it's not really a problem with your book but rather the big publishers) So when someone comes in and starts saying yeah they're drawn to be sexy but it's more than that, normally they were lying through their teeth and the comics were terrible. So it's not really about you. It just seemed overused and rarely not done that well well catwoman has recently became one of those rare examples.
Truth be told it is kind of early to really judge the writing, you've barely did what 24 pages.
Also was it just me or were people arguing about why do we have clothes and how we don't need them, screw you I need clothes and it's not to cover my grotesque self(that's why I wear lots of black and lots of layers), I need pockets. Also there's alot things people do that other animals don't do. We give our money and time to scam artists(charities and religious organization) Also we make cars and planes.
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:01PM
Ziffy88 at 5:54PM, Dec. 26, 2007
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I-mockery said it best about comic book cover cliches

This one should be obvious: a cover depicting some scantily-clad heroic or villainous vixen, and not much else. A book like this just screams “No substance to be found here!” but this is also the type of thing that horny 12-year old boys buy up like hotcakes. I know, because I was once a horny 12-year old boy, and I bought a lot of these comics. I did not, however, buy up a lot of hotcakes now that I think about it, so perhaps that analogy doesn't hold up. Regardless, these books always seem to do fairly well, although they're not as popular or prevalent now as they seemed to be in the 90s, when they got absolutely out of control and seemed to account for about half the shelf. Hell, Image and Marvel even used to do swimsuit specials, and that's pretty damned scary.
last edited on July 14, 2011 5:01PM
Steely Gaze at 3:31AM, Dec. 27, 2007
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Ziffy88
I-mockery said it best about comic book cover cliches

This one should be obvious: a cover depicting some scantily-clad heroic or villainous vixen, and not much else. A book like this just screams “No substance to be found here!” but this is also the type of thing that horny 12-year old boys buy up like hotcakes. I know, because I was once a horny 12-year old boy, and I bought a lot of these comics. I did not, however, buy up a lot of hotcakes now that I think about it, so perhaps that analogy doesn't hold up. Regardless, these books always seem to do fairly well, although they're not as popular or prevalent now as they seemed to be in the 90s, when they got absolutely out of control and seemed to account for about half the shelf. Hell, Image and Marvel even used to do swimsuit specials, and that's pretty damned scary.

While you have a point Ziffy88, I think you have also forgot something important. The writer. It's not the writer who writes (at least, not usually in my experience) that all female characters have to look like women from Baywatch (showing my age here, better watch out), it's the artist. Now, this certainly doesn't apply to everything, but look at the number of classics from the time period you mention and look at their art; you're right they are under dressed significantly, but are they poorly written?

That depends on who was doing the writing for that comic at the time. I've seen some that were a waste of time and others that had good plots regardless of what the artwork did, and that's the same way it is today.

For me, the story sells me into the comic, not the art. For me the art always comes a close second.

Of course this is a moot point with webcomics since the writer is usually the artist as well.
A Roll of the Dice now with full-size pages!

John Clyde now with ten times the tacky Hawaiian shirts!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:57PM
Largominus2004 at 8:51AM, Dec. 27, 2007
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Right on everyone! Thanks Ziffy, I do need more time to prove that this is not a cheesecake comic. Please understand that I realize now what everyone is getting at about my comments leaning towards not knowing that I was drawing boobs. Oh believe me, I know what I am doing “grins” and I share your views. I just don't want to be labeled as a cheesecake comic before it even gets rolling. I will admit that there will be nudity in this comic but not just for the sole purpose of sex. I grew up studying Frank Frazetta and Wrightson and it may have rubbed off some, lol. Before I go I just wanted to share something with everyone. About 3 weeks ago my 8 year old son came up to me while I was working on the comic and asked me “dad are you naughty?” I laughed and asked “in what way do you mean naughty?” He went on to say that I draw boobs and he thought that was bad. I said to him as I pulled out a book of illustrations by Frank Frazetta and showed him a few paintings, “do you think this guy is bad for drawing breasts?” He looked up at me and said no. I said “well that's who dad wants to be one day and that as I grew up I studied this man's work” He finished by saying “ok then, you can keep drawing boobies.”

LOL, I am going to remember that forever…

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:27PM
ShadowDion at 12:04PM, Dec. 28, 2007
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my opinion is, everything should have intention. my opinion is i don't think nudity is ever necessary, but it has a very potent effect when used. when someone see someone nude, its an exclaimation mark on the page. but like all effects it should be used sparingly. i think its' like a lot of the cool effects you can do on photoshop, they look sweet and grab attention, but a good artist knows when to use it.
to have boobs every page its just silly and becomes meaningless. i prefer to do work without nudity, but i don't mind reading work that has it, if it's done well. however i would be concerned if my kids could see that (if i had kids). overall, i don't think it's a matter of ‘good’ or ‘bad’, more so a matter of is it done well and correctly as opposed to redundant and distasteful.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:32PM

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