General Discussion

Light triumphant over dark... why?
Senshuu at 5:20AM, Feb. 3, 2009
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It's because you can see in the light. Turn on a light in a dark room. Pow! You can see now.

Light warriors are supposed to be all-seeing, cognizant of all the good in the world! But swarthy people are in the shadows plotting, unable to be seen, you can't tell who's good or bad in the dark etc. etc. Flopping it would be nice, though; say the dark robs us of all our silly preconceptions, prevents us from relying too much on logic or our eyes. Meanwhile the light fools us, makes us own up to our responsibilities, even blinds us. Ooooh.

You can see far in the light, but not in the dark.
'Course, some people don't want to be seen. But the same kinds of people can be evil in broad daylight and get away with it!

'Course, according to legend, the very first thing God did was bring light into the world. That was a good idea.

I'm all for breaking out of the standard cliches. In one of my stories, the spirit in control of light (or fire) is actually kind of a dick. I kind of like certain aspects of light/dark conventions, but there are different levels of lightness and darkness, so it's just not black and white. <3

Something that centers on the battle of light against dark isn't likely to interest me. To give a kind of general example, The Dark Knight wasn't like that at all.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
ozoneocean at 5:38AM, Feb. 3, 2009
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Jewish myth has the God created light stuff, but in Egyptian myth, Roman, Greek, native American, Australian Aboriginal etc Darkness is equally important in various ways and light certainly isn't supreme. The gods and spirits who live in the dark aren't always evil or anything, they just have a different domain.

Even death isn't always represented by darkness- in many cultures white is death… Obviously Japan, but also for desert people like some Australian Aboriginal peoples where the sun can mean death, brightness and day isn't an entirely good thing…
You see that too in many people where their world is always frozen a white- being day half the year and night the other, bright whiteness isn't much better than darkness really to them.

Also, remember: Children scared of the dark use a night-light. What does that tell you about night and people's so called “innate primitive” fear of it eh? lol!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
Bekefel at 6:56AM, Feb. 3, 2009
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Who says that the light is inherently better than the dark? Darkness is merely the absence of light. Why is that bad? You rarely hear of ‘Warriors of Darkness’ saving the world from an evil, searing light god-king or whatever, (though they do exist). Why is that? Do people associate goodness with light more readily, or is it just that so many games and stories already say ‘light is good, dark is bad’ so they just assume that must always be the case?

Just putting my thoughts out there.
Personally, I'm just up and down with the sun. Because I'm solar energized. SOLAR POWA GO. So, yeah, darkness is pretty bad for me because it wastes my battery and I end up running out of power in the middle of a dark alley way and someone takes advantage of my solarless body. And then I'm addicted to heroin.

I'm the same, but I'm more partial to crack.
Please, please, you give me too little credit.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
Senshuu at 7:19AM, Feb. 3, 2009
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This is why I want to study a lot of different cultures. :D Other people's perceptions of light and dark speak a lot of their way of life. It either ties into their morality or is kind of just there… (I especially like Egyptian myth)
I think what we've come to perceive in the west is universally applicable and thus overused, so creatives better start busting out the less conventional associations real soon.

The white/light part of the yin-yang (the yang) is supposed to represent the more negative things, I think. Amusing!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
Hakoshen at 9:24AM, Feb. 3, 2009
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Been a while since I studied any sort of social iconicism or theories relating to it, but it's a cultural thing. After reading through the above posts I can safely assume you all know that already.

What can I say that hasn't already been said though? We're afraid of darkness in general because of primal survival instinct and the fact that you can't see too well in it. Plus, generally speaking, Christianity colloquially potrays hell as being “underground”, dark and full of evil and whatnot. On a related note, I seem to recall the devil being called “the morning star” and the face of temptation. The cornerstone of evil in our religion was a sight of beauty and magnificense second only to God Himself. How ironic.

Still, that doesn't account for the cultural differences of why we continually portray heroes as warriors of the light, and villains of darkness. A warrior of darkness isn't so much a bad idea, I mean who's to say the black knight couldn't ride his black horse against the evil king in all his radiant splendor?

And while I don't think anyone was serious when they said racism, I nonetheless don't think it has anything to do with that at all. I mean these archetypes existed long before cultural blending on the scale we see it. Hell, even in Africa evil is portrayed in darker colors.

I couldn't give a honest, 100% answer without doing some serious anthropological research, and it's about time for my lunch break.
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:40PM
kyupol at 12:32PM, Feb. 3, 2009
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Who says that the light is inherently better than the dark? Darkness is merely the absence of light. Why is that bad? You rarely hear of ‘Warriors of Darkness’ saving the world from an evil, searing light god-king or whatever, (though they do exist). Why is that? Do people associate goodness with light more readily, or is it just that so many games and stories already say ‘light is good, dark is bad’ so they just assume that must always be the case?

Just putting my thoughts out there.

A simple explanation:

In the light, you see. In the dark, you can't see.

If you can see, that is good. Its good not to be blind.

If you can't see, that is bad. Who in their right mind would want to be blind?


NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 12:53PM, Feb. 3, 2009
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AzuJOD
Dark is not evil

Light is not good

Good ol' TV Tropes.

DO NOT LINK TO THAT SITE!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
TheMidge28 at 5:30PM, Feb. 3, 2009
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everything is subjective.
so if darkness is the new light, then does that make black the new white?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:25PM
Xiam at 3:16PM, Feb. 15, 2009
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What is that Dark Helmet said to Lone Starr in Spaceballs? “Evil will always win, because good is dumb.”

I like to follow the percieved personalities of Light Vs. Darkness. Light shines out, permeates, illuminates all it touches. Darkness cowers away from the light. When the two are opposed, it is always that way. Darkness cowering from the light. Light reaching out to all it can. Even considering a speck of light from a star or a keyhole… it shines through, and darkness hides just out of its reach.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:52PM
json at 10:37PM, Feb. 15, 2009
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there was this story that i read when i was a freshman in college, that for the life of me, i cannot remember the name of the book or who was the author.

it was a fantasy adventure book. the basic premise was the good guys had won, and with all the major evil figures destroyed, they were using magic to turn everyone who was remotely evil into good citizens. if you didn't go along with this mandatory brainwashing thing, then you were killed. the main heroes were also on a major quest to (do something that i forgot but basically would spread goodness and righteousness across the planet.)

the problem was, they were so overzealous that they could have been seen as the darker characters. while the real heroes of the book were the rag tag gang of evil guys that didn't want to be brainwashed, so they wanted to stop that from happening.

my memory is a bit spotty, so i won't try to recall anymore, but it was certainly a fun read, and a welcome departure from most “anti-hero” stories and all the goody two shoes tales.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:11PM
Skullbie at 10:39PM, Feb. 15, 2009
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Sometimes dark is triumphant over dark
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
anise shaw at 11:46PM, Feb. 15, 2009
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Skullbie
Sometimes dark is triumphant over dark


Your avatar makes my brain want to seize, but the pure awesomeness of your post is keeping me in line.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:53AM
SpANG at 10:11AM, Feb. 16, 2009
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In summation:

DAY MAN!
FIGHTER OF THE NIGHT MAN!
CHAMPION OF THE SUN!
MASTER OF KARATE AND FRIENDSHIP FOR EVERYONE!

DAY MAN!

“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Drasnus at 2:09PM, Feb. 16, 2009
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People are afraid of the dark.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:16PM
highspeedcomics at 5:11PM, Feb. 16, 2009
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If it was never dark, no one would sleep and everyone would be cranky. Just keep that in mind.

Also, chocolate milk > regular milk, so there's that, too.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
vexx78 at 5:40PM, Feb. 16, 2009
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I for one prefer white chocolate to milk chocolate to dark. All the rest of my feelings around light and dark revolve around my views on chocolate.
LOL that so funny. Here is my two cents. Humans are naturally fearful of the unknown and being in the ‘dark’ and not being able to see through the dark just makes us fearful. However, in nature light is weaker than the dark. What I mean is that gravity is so powerful in black holes even light can't escape. Also, the matter in the universe we can see with our eyes can not account for all the gravity that holds galaxies together and scientists finally have evidence of ‘dark’ matter and ‘dark’ energy that dominate our universe. Maybe we have it all wrong, maybe the ‘dark’ is the true hero instead of the ‘light’.
Life's a game… www.spadeanddiamond.com
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:40PM
Cthonic Cultist at 7:30PM, Feb. 23, 2009
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json
there was this story that i read when i was a freshman in college, that for the life of me, i cannot remember the name of the book or who was the author.

it was a fantasy adventure book. the basic premise was the good guys had won, and with all the major evil figures destroyed, they were using magic to turn everyone who was remotely evil into good citizens. if you didn't go along with this mandatory brainwashing thing, then you were killed. the main heroes were also on a major quest to (do something that i forgot but basically would spread goodness and righteousness across the planet.)

the problem was, they were so overzealous that they could have been seen as the darker characters. while the real heroes of the book were the rag tag gang of evil guys that didn't want to be brainwashed, so they wanted to stop that from happening.

my memory is a bit spotty, so i won't try to recall anymore, but it was certainly a fun read, and a welcome departure from most “anti-hero” stories and all the goody two shoes tales.

GRAGH! I demand that you find this story for me! I demand!

Also- vexx78

You pretty much said what Lovecraft said. “The strongest emotion is fear, and the strongest kind of fear is the fear of the unknown”

Dark matter is pretty rad.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:55AM
json at 12:25AM, Feb. 25, 2009
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i wish i could remember the name of that book, but i'm still drawing a blank…..the lead hero was such a bad ass too….i want to read it again!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:11PM
bravo1102 at 6:33AM, Feb. 25, 2009
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everything is subjective.
so if darkness is the new light, then does that make black the new white?

Black was the new white twenty years ago, where have you been? Then Goths ruined it and pastels came in, but darks as opposed to pastels are in right now, but not black.

That's really back to Goths, art students and undertakers.

As for the whole “you can't see in the dark thing!” That's your problem, not mine. You can over time adapt to nocturnal hunting/stalking and improve your night vision (then there is night vision equipment) You guys obviously haven't had to wander around in the dark looking for things to break and people to kill.

Welcome to the twenty-four hour battlefield. Though I have to say the hallucinations after being awake for longer than 72 hours are really distracting. lol!
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Cthonic Cultist at 10:58PM, March 8, 2009
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bravo1102
As for the whole “you can't see in the dark thing!” That's your problem, not mine. You can over time adapt to nocturnal hunting/stalking and improve your night vision (then there is night vision equipment) You guys obviously haven't had to wander around in the dark looking for things to break and people to kill.

Welcome to the twenty-four hour battlefield. Though I have to say the hallucinations after being awake for longer than 72 hours are really distracting. lol!

The darkness (or at least as dark as you can get and still have night vision worth anything) is the best time to do awesome things. Oh yes it is. Like tieing someone onto the seat of a motorcycle then putting it up a tree.

HaLlUcInAtIoNs? Whass that, huh? Sounds like bussing monssers up in yer eyes, they focus you!

json
i wish i could remember the name of that book, but i'm still drawing a blank…..the lead hero was such a bad ass too….i want to read it again!

I have read so many good books with badass main characters that I might have read it! ARRRGH! You are making me suffer without touching me!
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:55AM
ozoneocean at 12:24AM, March 9, 2009
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he darkness (or at least as dark as you can get and still have night vision worth anything) is the best time to do awesome things.
No it's not. I lived 24 hours for years until I got stuck in a day job (I still do on the weekends etc), and while it's easier to be creative at night because there are less distractions… you can't go out shopping, pay bills, post stuff, do banking, visit friends and all that sort of thing! :(

…unless you've got a good 24 hour shop near by (I used to, but it went back to normal hours and the 24 hour cafe van near the beach was closed down), friends who're also all hours people (not many are really and not for long if they try it), and internet banking, shopping etc is hardly the same thing.

The night sucks for engaging in all that life stuff that has to get done. Even the TV (once I got rid of cable) is utter shiz.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
Kristen Gudsnuk at 9:46AM, March 9, 2009
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SpANG
In summation:

DAY MAN!
FIGHTER OF THE NIGHT MAN!
CHAMPION OF THE SUN!
MASTER OF KARATE AND FRIENDSHIP FOR EVERYONE!

DAY MAN!



LOL!!!! (and where does greenman come in?)

I think that questioning whether light or darkness is better is forcing symbolic thought. Light and dark are subjective abstracts that don't have innate goodness or evil.
But light as a symbol represents understanding, knowledge and advancement. Think of Plato's allegory of the cave.

So why does light triumph over darkness? Because as humans, we feel the need to inject meaning into everything, and to force order into our chaotic world. We can't just have light and dark; they have to have meaning.
So if light is good, then dark (its opposite) must be bad– or else there is no meaning to saying light itself is good.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM
Cthonic Cultist at 9:27PM, March 12, 2009
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ozoneocean
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he darkness (or at least as dark as you can get and still have night vision worth anything) is the best time to do awesome things.
No it's not. I lived 24 hours for years until I got stuck in a day job (I still do on the weekends etc), and while it's easier to be creative at night because there are less distractions… you can't go out shopping, pay bills, post stuff, do banking, visit friends and all that sort of thing! :(

…unless you've got a good 24 hour shop near by (I used to, but it went back to normal hours and the 24 hour cafe van near the beach was closed down), friends who're also all hours people (not many are really and not for long if they try it), and internet banking, shopping etc is hardly the same thing.

The night sucks for engaging in all that life stuff that has to get done. Even the TV (once I got rid of cable) is utter shiz.

Every place I would want to go is open 24 hours, and my friends stay up really late anyways. TV is stupid, and I *do* bank online.

It sucks if you live in a silly town filled with silly people, maybe. Or in Arkham. Or Innsmouth. Or Derry. Or Salem's Lot. But besides those places, darkness = funtimes. always.
Boring and talentless I am.. At least I am occasionally insightful, maybe?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:55AM
Faliat at 4:59AM, March 13, 2009
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I dunno why everybody likes the light so much when too much of it makes us only see darkness (Basically, we go blind). Light also sets things on fire and burns things in excess. As far as I know darkness only affects our sight and production of vitamin d. Blind people can get about okay-ish and there's other ways of getting vitamin d into our system. Light is VERY overrated as a good power.

And another thing…
Lucifer, you know that guy that lives in hell that God doesn't like? His name means “Light Bringer”.

A lot of plants need light so survive, yet there's quite a lot that don't or rarely need it. As well as there being animals with no eyes at all or poor sight that survive perfectly in caves and at the bottom of the ocean.

There's also other ways of getting energy without light. But a lot of people won't consider those methods.

And you guys should try watching British TV. We have such bad shows that are popular with the dumbed-down masses that the only time they make room for the good gear is weeknights and after midnight at weekends. At least that's what it's like now. It never used to be that way.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
tiffawolf at 11:08PM, March 26, 2009
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hey i have a few dark characters from some old stories that are using the element of dark as a good weapon, heh im nocternal so i really dont like brightness
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:30PM
bravo1102 at 4:49AM, March 27, 2009
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ozoneocean
The night sucks for engaging in all that life stuff that has to get done. Even the TV (once I got rid of cable) is utter shiz.

I like the peace of overnights. As far as TV (and radio), in Hawai'i the overnight stuff is what is on TV during prime time. The overnight radio shows I always missed in Eastern Standard Time were on in the early evening!

As far as Arkham and the rest, Go 'pods! Miskatonic U. alum. I did graduate work in “THINGS MAN WAS NOT MEANT TO KNOW”

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
GiantPinkWalrus at 6:42AM, March 27, 2009
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Good and bad are just a matter of perspective. Is it a good thing to kill one to save 1000 others the good thing to do? What if one of the 1000 people go on to kill even more people? Did you make the right choice then?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM
AQua_ng at 11:33AM, March 27, 2009
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It's because if it weren't the case, you'd be asking why dark is triumphant over light.

K.A.L.A-dan! Brigade Captain :D
K.A.L.A.-dan forums!
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:59AM

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