Debate and Discussion

LOVE
kyupol at 4:35PM, Oct. 2, 2009
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What is love to you?

Is it just an instinctual reaction based on chemicals in the brain that get triggered by certain external stimuli… You know, something like what some psychologists claim. And this whole thing about NLP (neuro-linguistic programming. In short, its the science of how to use your words, tone of voice, and body language in order to trigger certain reactions in people). NLP can even get women to fall “in love” with you.
http://www.nlpseduction.com/
Note: the above website may look like BS to you. Lets say it is. As I haven't purchased the book he's trying to sell. The point is, it IS possible to get a woman to fall “in love” with you using NLP techniques. As I've tried and tested various tactics myself. (that's another story that would take up another long paragraph so I'd leave it at that). Still don't believe me? Just watch an Obama speech. He is using NLP techniques but that's another story.




Or is there really something of a deeper, more profound spiritual nature to the idea of LOVE?

Is it true that you and your partner are destined to be together because of God's will?

Is it true that you and your partner are somehow on the same level of spiritual evolution, therefore making you compatible with one another?

Is it true that there are no coincidences… and such that fate has guided both of you to cross one another's path? Such that before you were born, both your souls were already familiar to one another in a previous life.

Is LOVE this ever present force in the universe that all life forms need in order to create a balance within themselves? Since it appears to be that a lack of love is what triggers people to fall into the dark side.

Discuss.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
Rich at 4:58PM, Oct. 2, 2009
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Even though love is primarily caused by a chemical reaction in the brain, it is no less important despite that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:07PM
gullas at 5:13PM, Oct. 2, 2009
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Love is just as dangerous as it's beutifull…. imo…

Love can easily turn off all rational thinking, it's just as any drug. Love is also something that has to be earned, no one can expect to get love as they want, whenever they want/need. Love is also something that you have to put time and mind into, so that you “could” enjoy it. The mere idea of being loved can easily destroy lifes if not proceeded with caution…
but again, that's just my opinion :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:40PM
qqq at 6:50PM, Oct. 2, 2009
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A drug, it's called endorphin I think, probably dopamine too. It's addictive, it brings pleasant hallucinations, makes you feel good and it affects your rational mind. And when you have to quit for some reason you get all kind of withdrawal symptoms like crying and generally feeling bad.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
Orin J Master at 7:16PM, Oct. 2, 2009
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qqq
A drug, it's called endorphin I think, probably dopamine too. It's addictive, it brings pleasant hallucinations, makes you feel good and it affects your rational mind. And when you have to quit for some reason you get all kind of withdrawal symptoms like crying and generally feeling bad.


a smart alec, eh.

besides, you're confusing love with physical attraction. also, getting all your details wrong…..
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
qqq at 7:30PM, Oct. 2, 2009
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Orin J Master
qqq
A drug, it's called endorphin I think, probably dopamine too. It's addictive, it brings pleasant hallucinations, makes you feel good and it affects your rational mind. And when you have to quit for some reason you get all kind of withdrawal symptoms like crying and generally feeling bad.


a smart alec, eh.

besides, you're confusing love with physical attraction. also, getting all your details wrong…..
There is a withdrawal symptom in physical attraction?

Did you ever feel bad if you spotted a hottie and it smiled at you and then walked on?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
mlai at 10:31PM, Oct. 2, 2009
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LOL, neuro-linguistic programming? Yeah, snake oil con-men need guys like you. Who have money.

I admit there are “tricks” and “techniques” to picking up women at singles scenes. Just like there are “techniques” to interviewing for a job, being a salesman, etc etc. That is true. Practice and applicable knowledge definitely helps you pick up girls.

But love? Different story altogether.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
qqq at 4:30AM, Oct. 3, 2009
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ithd
mlai
LOL, neuro-linguistic programming? Yeah, snake oil con-men need guys like you. Who have money.
Interesting is though that the same areae of the brain become active with people that receive love from their companions as people that use their drugs, and withdrawal of drugs also activates the same areae as a ‘broken’ heart.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3236328.stm

The opinion is already mainstream neurology, mind you.

I admit there are “tricks” and “techniques” to picking up women at singles scenes. Just like there are “techniques” to interviewing for a job, being a salesman, etc etc. That is true. Practice and applicable knowledge definitely helps you pick up girls.

But love? Different story altogether.
Thing is about ‘true love’ that people always claim they have it themselves, but were they to look at another couple in the same situation they would call it ‘shallow’.

And likewise of course fail to notice that others call them shallow just as much. It further damages the already pretty bad objective nature of the human mind.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
Jonko at 4:38AM, Oct. 3, 2009
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qqq
Thing is about ‘true love’ that people always claim they have it themselves, but were they to look at another couple in the same situation they would call it ‘shallow’.

I guess I would agree with the shallow part, but I don't think everyone claims they have true love. I for one know that I dont have it now.

To me love is just obsession. Just like getting obsessed with a comic series or tv show, I get obsessed with it for a while and then move on.

They say that people are programmed to only love someone for 3 years because that's how long it takes to have a baby and for it to be able to walk. To me this just sounds like a temporary obsession we are programmed to have in nature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:10PM
qqq at 5:16AM, Oct. 3, 2009
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Jonko
qqq
Thing is about ‘true love’ that people always claim they have it themselves, but were they to look at another couple in the same situation they would call it ‘shallow’.

I guess I would agree with the shallow part, but I don't think everyone claims they have true love. I for one know that I dont have it now.
True, I rephrase, if people claim it of themselves then… some people are wise enough to not be that naïve.

I don't believe in the concept of ‘true love’ though, like the universe cares enough to make for all people ‘perfect matches’, love at first sight usually is even less of it as you don't know them yet and purely fall for their looks.

To me love is just obsession. Just like getting obsessed with a comic series or tv show, I get obsessed with it for a while and then move on.
Could of course very well be.

They say that people are programmed to only love someone for 3 years because that's how long it takes to have a baby and for it to be able to walk. To me this just sounds like a temporary obsession we are programmed to have in nature.
It differs from person to person. Evolution is still a statistical law.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
Sea_Cow at 12:52PM, Oct. 3, 2009
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Love will make you look like a dumbass. I've seen this happen. Stay far away.
I am so happy to finally be back home
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
Orin J Master at 4:25PM, Oct. 3, 2009
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Sea_Cow
Love will make you look like a dumbass. I've seen this happen. Stay far away.

Love will make you look like a dumbass, and you'll have no idea that it's happening. that's part of how it works.

also, qqq, feel free to stop being a troll at anytime. starting a debate isn't the same as starting an argument, and you're cruising solidly towards the latter.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
Survival Artist at 4:53PM, Oct. 3, 2009
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Love:

Root cause: Neurochemistry. But no less profound for that.

Spiritual? Sure, in that it plays a central role in human emotional life.

Recipe: Strong physical attraction based on genetic compatibility signaled by pheromone cues.
+
Stimulating compatibility, personality-wise.

One without the other will result in a fling, or a friendship. I guess I don't think love is so mysterious. (Though it sure can feel that way when you're afflicted.)

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:04PM
mlai at 5:30AM, Oct. 4, 2009
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@ qqq:

I'm not saying love is mystical. I'm saying that there are too many factors to reliably have a set of techniques to make anyone fall in love with you. To have a fling, yes, there are sets of techniques.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
qqq at 7:51AM, Oct. 4, 2009
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mlai
@ qqq:

I'm not saying love is mystical. I'm saying that there are too many factors to reliably have a set of techniques to make anyone fall in love with you. To have a fling, yes, there are sets of techniques.
For flings they even are not reliable.

Theoretically, there should be an algorithm that can make any person fall in love with you, the algorithm is just too complex and you really have to adjust your behaviour for different people and keep acting like that.

But even the simpler tricks for flings are not universal, all people are different. Personally, I don't make myself look attractive for people whom I'm interested in, quite the reverse, I make them aware of all the traits I have I suspect of they find undesirable, better let them find out before it starts than afterwards. I think Natalie Imbruglia wrote a nice song about it. I do not see for people to ‘fall in love’ with ‘me’, that is falling in love with a fictional person and making themselves believe that's I. I see for them to ‘love me’ perhaps, for what I am. Romantic love is temporary and goes away without any explainable reason. If a person acts nice towards me, smiles at me, likes to spend time with me, has sex with me, then I'd rather have it that that person is not in love with me at all. For if that person is, then I know it's just a pink filter and it will go away.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:57PM
ipokino at 9:21AM, Oct. 5, 2009
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Good discussion. This is what I have learned in my fifty odd years.

I never knew how to love (and yes, knowing ‘how to love’ is crucial) until my daughter was born. Suddenly I understood what ‘love’ was. Love really isn't about how you feel exactly, that is mutable and like qqq says, is an expression of endorphins and a cocktail of other brain/body chemicals designed to elicit a mating response. Love is about the desire to nurture and care for another person.
Nurturing and caring for this little bundle of humanity who basically did nothing but eat, sleep and excrete…was this most significantly wonderous thing that ever happened to me.

I rather expected it was just a case of parental love and not applicable to adult human love…but it turns out, it was!

Loving someone–I have been with my wife now for seven years–and I have loved her exquisitely every day of those seven years (and fully expect it to continue…) meant simply putting her life before mine. She has a serious illness. I support her completely. My time in the evenings after work is not about television, or other singular stuff…it is about time spent with Karen. And she returns this care and nurture as best she can–which is wonderful to me.

Comic work comes in a distant second place.

So, not true love…but real love. A good thing.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
El Cid at 12:43PM, Oct. 5, 2009
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I definitely don't believe love is some kind of mystical hocus-pocus whatsit; I'm sure it's something biological, probably based on our social interdependence, and I'd guess not reserved solely for humans. As for this stuff about us being destined to find that one true match, that's a buncha' hooey. I think it's more like that one certain type of person, or those many different types of persons, whom you can get along with (or with whom you “click,” as people like to put it nowadays). Even with incompatible personalities, a strong bond can be formed if you're willing to work at it. No magic involved, just work. You get out what you put in.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:20PM
simonitro at 8:36PM, Oct. 5, 2009
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I do believe in love. It's simply the best emotion that someone could express. I do believe in love and I love love.

My philosophy… if there's no love, then there's no life because LOVE IS LIFE!!!

It's such a magical emotion and it could be towards someone you love and care about or you love to eat that chocolate cake, eh?

So, what the heck? It might be a debatable issue but I would always be a lover!


Enjoy… Las Vegas-y
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:38PM
Jonko at 11:29PM, Oct. 5, 2009
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simonitro
I do believe in love. It's simply the best emotion that someone could express. I do believe in love and I love love.

My philosophy… if there's no love, then there's no life because LOVE IS LIFE!!!

It's such a magical emotion and it could be towards someone you love and care about or you love to eat that chocolate cake, eh?

So, what the heck? It might be a debatable issue but I would always be a lover!

I thought this way until I had my first boyfriend…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:11PM
ozoneocean at 7:38AM, Oct. 6, 2009
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This is tricky. It's not as straight forward as us logical rationalists would like to believe. We pretend, fake, fantasise and imagine ourselves as truly logical or objective, but that can only ever be a construction, a personal scaffolding. As humans we're trapped in these emotional, sexual bodies with emotional, sexual minds, evolved to react to others of our kind in certain ways and in certain conditions. Not only that but we have layers of hundreds of thousands of years of culture that's based on these factors in a nice reinforcing loop. And our culture isn't just something external, no, it's an essential part of our evolution. In this way cultural artefacts, constructions and the expectations based on them have a real dimension.

So, is there a “spiritual” aspect to love? Well yeah, there sort of is because as a species we've evolved to be that way and make it so.

Perfect, true love? Well again, it probably IS a real genuine thing in way. The mystical sounding words we use to describe it are just the best way we have of putting a very complicated idea into words. As humans we are defined as a species by our community social structures, layers of culture, and complex communication that facilitates it. When you factor in what we know of chemical messengers, genetics and statistical relationships and tendencies into this already complex soup of humanity, it's very likely that some sexual matches will be a lot more perfect than others could ever be- and the psychological, physical, and cultural components of this could have some part in the idea of “true love”.

Even the expectations and mythology that will make someone feel as if any particular match involves some measure of “true love” is perfectly valid and as mystical and as special as they imagine it to be, since that is part of the complex story of what it means to be human (as I elaborated on above).
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
PIT_FACE at 4:46PM, Oct. 7, 2009
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Jonko
qqq
Thing is about ‘true love’ that people always claim they have it themselves, but were they to look at another couple in the same situation they would call it ‘shallow’.

I guess I would agree with the shallow part, but I don't think everyone claims they have true love. I for one know that I dont have it now.

To me love is just obsession. Just like getting obsessed with a comic series or tv show, I get obsessed with it for a while and then move on.

They say that people are programmed to only love someone for 3 years because that's how long it takes to have a baby and for it to be able to walk. To me this just sounds like a temporary obsession we are programmed to have in nature.

not quite. some cases can be fleating,yeah,but if you're comparing deep human connection to a tv show, i can only think ya havent felt this yet. and who says that people only love for 3 years? i've never heard that and because of my own situation, i know this isnt right.

and like OZ said, just cuz we're all rational about it,lets not think that means we can just dismiss it. besides ther being the love of a man for a woman or whatever, there's how mothers love there young and things like that. we're a social species and this has helped us reign as the sepreme creature on this planet for so long. we care for eachother and therefore act as a community.think of how different things might be if we DIDNT have love and we were all just lizard brains. no one would give you food, or save you from a burning building, hell! maby you're mom would have eaten you when you were born. where ever you think love comes from, dont underestemate it and take it for granted. it effects you much more then just some “whimsical fleeting thing”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:45PM
Product Placement at 7:00PM, Oct. 7, 2009
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The whole love thing is an evolutionary response to a defect in our anatomy. When we developed bipedal walking, our hips needed to take a shape that supported the weight accordingly. Around the same time our head started to grow to a point where we couldn't fit through the opening in the hip bone any longer, resulting in an earlier delivery. Every human born is essentially a premature birth, which is why our infants are so weak compared with most other mammal offspring who can normally stand up and walk around couple of hours after birth. This meant that in order for our species to survive, extra care had to be provided for our offspring. When most mammals can fend for themselves after a year or two, our children requires at least a decade of raising. That type of responsibility required both parents to help with the upbringing and the invention of love helped make that possible.

The romantic answer: When two halves find each other, perfection is formed. Someone coined it quite well with these words. “I know I'm in love when I no longer wish to sleep, for my life is finally better then my dreams.”
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:51PM
cartoonprofessor at 4:11PM, Oct. 8, 2009
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Interesting ideas and debate…

The Hindu word for love is Prema, which does not really translate that well into English as ‘love’.

A more accurate translation is ‘acceptance’.

From what little I know of Hindu philosophy, True Love is Total Acceptance, this means accepting another's faults as well as their positives. In my 17-year relationship I would have to agree that this interpretation would be the most accurate.

My partner and I have travelled the country, living in buses, gone through extreme stress and hardship together, spent not just days or weeks, but months and years living in each other's ‘hip-pockets’ and are still ‘in love’. When you can accept the other person totally (including their stress which may be causing them to yell and scream at you and vice versa), then you will know true love.

There is a another thought that I agree with to do with love… you can only love another as much as you love yourself. It is emotionally impossible to love another deeply if you do not love yourself just as deeply. If you think you love someone else far more than yourself, you are kidding yourself and living in a fantasy… which will one day come crashing down.

Anyway, that is my two cents worth.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:36AM
patrickdevine at 9:33PM, Oct. 9, 2009
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That NLP site looks really sketchy.

Love is one of those things that just about everyone thinks that they understand and want. I think a good part of that is that the romances you see in movies and TV are what people have come to expect and want for themselves even though it's not always realistic.
Like what Ozone brought up love isn't really something straightforward or quantifiable, which is kind of cool but that fact makes me wonder how anyone can really know if they're in love or not. In my case I think I was in love, it was good while it lasted but now that it's over a significant part of me wishes that it never happened. Not to say I'm not conflicted in that regard, I feel that I'm a better person than I was before meeting this person. Even so, if this is what love's like I'm not sure that I ever want to be in love again.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:41PM
Leenex t at 6:48PM, Oct. 11, 2009
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girls dont love guys they only want a good time i mean jesus nice guys are people too
This was a dupe account designed to make another user look bad.
Be warned, if you do this yourself you may be banned from this site.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:30PM
isukun at 2:48PM, Oct. 12, 2009
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I think love goes beyond the chemical responses to sexual attraction. It requires a deeper psychological attraction to another human being. It also doesn't require a sexual attraction. You love your family and friends just as you would a spouse, there just isn't any desire to have sex with them. You still desire their presence and you still help them when they are in need. You value that connection and you don't want to see it break at any cost.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
Insizwa at 11:54AM, Oct. 14, 2009
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Product Placement
When most mammals can fend for themselves after a year or two, our children requires at least a decade of raising.

Actually back in cavemen days the children would only stay with their birth parents for a minimum 4 years, until moving off with another tribe or whatever. And funny thing is that many couples that get divorced, usually only stay together 4 years.

Anyway I agree that it's an evolutionary thing; people who fall in love have sex and perpetuate the human species. I read an article about it and it was pretty interesting. It also explained why men are more likely to sleep around and why they go for hot chicks. A girl being hot is nature's way of telling us dudes, that she's relatively healthy, and therefore it's time to make babies.

If anyone's interested in the article it's called “The Way We Woo” by Heather Pringle.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:01PM
ERasER at 5:31AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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I think its a lot deeper than a chemical reaction. For one thing you don't fall in love with any pretty face, for instance I know someone who fell in love with his wife over an online game and they had never met before and didn't meet until a year after.
What I believe is that love is a deep connection between two people with a desire to be with each other.
BackSeat Gamers
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
Jonko at 1:36PM, Nov. 4, 2009
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ERasER
I think its a lot deeper than a chemical reaction. For one thing you don't fall in love with any pretty face,

Doesn't that just depend on the situation? I mean, I think that the whole “love at first site” thing is just that…. By the way if anyone wants a good love at first site short story read Murakami Harukis “On Meeting my 100% Woman”
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:11PM
The Gravekeeper at 12:14AM, Jan. 16, 2010
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The fact is that we still don't fully understand love in scientific terms. The theory that it's simply a by-product of the natural urge to reproduce and thus goes away after a few years completely fails to take into account couples who manage to remain deeply in love for many decades. Same with the theory Product Placement put forth: if it's because of an anatomical defect, then why do many other animals mate for life and show affection?

There's also the conundrum of different kinds of love. You don't get the same kind of love from a new boyfriend/girlfriend as you do from a close family member. In most cases, anyway.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:14PM

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