Debate and Discussion

Megalodon .True or Fake?
martinlo_23 at 9:43PM, Jan. 17, 2009
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I think is fake.
It's said it's prehistoric but it couldn't survived so long until now.
But LOL in Shark Attack 3:Megalodon.
Anyway if Megalodon exists then other creatures(Kraken,Basilosaurus that Rayquaza look-alike that appeared near Japan I think,etc)then will eat/kill another creatures to survive.

WOOT!My first long comment!
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:54PM
Kilre at 11:41PM, Jan. 17, 2009
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Megalodon (Carcharodon megalodon) once upon a time was a living breathing creature. It is no longer extant.

Hollywood science fails on so many levels it's incredibly ludicrous, but it makes for entertainment if you turn your brain off.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
ozoneocean at 7:16AM, Jan. 18, 2009
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There are no modern megalodons, as Kilre says; they're extinct. Just because you see monsters in action films, it doesn't mean they're real. ;)

As for the extinct variety, it was a gigantic fish, the biggest ever so they say. In terms of the biggest, deadliest fish ever though I'd go for the Dunkleosteus, which although less than half the megalodon's size, was armoured in bony plate and could bite just about any other creature in half.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
SpANG at 9:10AM, Jan. 18, 2009
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Coelicanths were believed to have been extinct for tens of millions of years, but were rediscovered in 1938 off the coast of South Africa.

For centuries, giant squids were considered “Mythological beasts”. Then in 2004 Japanese researchers filmed a live giant squid in its natural habitat. Not only that, but the even bigger ‘Collosal Squid’ has also been found.

Megolodons aren't like mermaids or unicorns. There is actual evidence of their existence, and no real definitive evidence of their extinction. Sharks are, evolutionarily speaking, probably one of the most perfect designs in nature, and have not had to evolve much over the years. The fact that Megolodons and modern sharks pretty much only differ in size proves that Megolodons were not killed off because of obsolete design. The only theory is that they died off because of water temperature and lack of really, really big prey.

But Could the vastness of the oceans still provide a habitat that would sustain and provide large enough prey for Megolodon? Or could the Megolodon have adapted? There's a possibility, however slim it may be. Sure, Megolodons are more than likely extinct. But could they still be alive?

Since only about 5% of the world's oceans have actually been explored, I wouldn't want to give a definitive “no” on that.


Oh, and Megolodons are not the biggest fish ever discovered. A specimen of Leedsichthys Problematicus was recently estimated to be 72 feet (22 meteres) long.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
krisikas at 10:45AM, Jan. 18, 2009
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They're extincted.Even if its possible that he might be hidding, it's really is not smart enough for that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM
martinlo_23 at 5:37PM, Jan. 18, 2009
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True,even if it exists is too big to hide.
That or they are blind.
Unrelated question:What was the name of the shark that attacked Mattawan, New Jersey,etc in 1916?
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:54PM
SpANG at 6:17PM, Jan. 18, 2009
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Yes… Yes, that's what I said. That they are “hiding”. Not that 95% of the ocean is unexplored or anything. Thanks for reading.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
ozoneocean at 7:37PM, Jan. 18, 2009
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SpANG
Oh, and Megolodons are not the biggest fish ever discovered. A specimen of Leedsichthys Problematicus was recently estimated to be 72 feet (22 meteres) long.
Really? My friend the sometimes reliable Wikipedia says that's how big the Megolodons were. So they're more like twinsies :)

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I seriously doubt you could have a hidden predator of that size in this century. Anything is possible and we discover new species all the time, it's just that I would imagine that there'd be some evidence of its existence- like tell-tall attack marks on sperm whales for instance.

The giant squid thing is an often used example of myth becoming reality, but it should be an example of how blind and stupid the scientific establishment can be- since for decades they weren't just sceptical, but flat-out refused to countenance the possibility of the creature and only regarded it as a legend, whereas the people who should actually KNOW- Fisherman, sailors, beach goers, etc. had been reporting sightings and accurate descriptions for millennia.

The giant squid case is a very good example of bad science. At least it was for a very long while.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
BffSatan at 1:05AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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ozoneocean
I seriously doubt you could have a hidden predator of that size in this century. Anything is possible and we discover new species all the time, it's just that I would imagine that there'd be some evidence of its existence- like tell-tall attack marks on sperm whales for instance.
Megalodon don't wound, they kill. All whales studies would be done in the 95% of ocean we have explored, and if any surrvive an attack then in all probability it wouldn't live to migrate.

I'm not saying that it isn't extinct, but it's possible.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
isukun at 1:41AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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Another problem with the theory that they could still exist is that sharks like the Great White have to migrate just to find sufficient food quantities throughout the year. Larger sharks can't even survive on fish alone and end up eating more mammals for the richer fat reserves. If something as big as a Megalodon were following whale migrations (which is really the only food source that would not only have the fat reserves they would need, but would also venture into deep enough waters), I think someone would have noticed by now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
BffSatan at 2:09AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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isukun
Another problem with the theory that they could still exist is that sharks like the Great White have to migrate just to find sufficient food quantities throughout the year. Larger sharks can't even survive on fish alone and end up eating more mammals for the richer fat reserves. If something as big as a Megalodon were following whale migrations (which is really the only food source that would not only have the fat reserves they would need, but would also venture into deep enough waters), I think someone would have noticed by now.
I think you make a good point, but I'm playing devil's advocate here. They could have a different diet now, maybe giant squid or some of the many other undiscovered sea creatures.

If they are still alive then I think they would have evolved to be a little smaller by now as well.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
ozoneocean at 5:31AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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BffSatan
Megalodon don't wound, they kill. All whales studies would be done in the 95% of ocean we have explored, and if any surrvive an attack then in all probability it wouldn't live to migrate.

I'm not saying that it isn't extinct, but it's possible.
I'm sorry but that's very, very silly. Lions and tigers kill too but many animals survive the attacks and go on to live a full life, as is such with the victims of almost all (and probably all) predators in existence.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
BffSatan at 7:36AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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ozoneocean
I'm sorry but that's very, very silly. Lions and tigers kill too but many animals survive the attacks and go on to live a full life, as is such with the victims of almost all (and probably all) predators in existence.
If the wounds were livable then would they look like a giant shark bite? when biologist come across a gazel with a huge scare they would think lion, but if they came across a whale with a bit of it's tale missing they would assume that it was a shark, killer whale or some other random thing.

Also the chance of this are slim because if this animal is still alive their numbers will be few.

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate, I don't believe or out right refuse it's existance.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
isukun at 8:31AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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They could have a different diet now, maybe giant squid or some of the many other undiscovered sea creatures.

Except that an animal cannot just change their diet to whatever they want at their convenience. Larger Sharks don't eat mammals because they happen to be there, their actively seek them out because they need the nutrients present in their biological makeup. As I said before, the Great White will seek out mammalian prey because it cannot survive on fish alone. Evidence points to the Megalodon also favoring a mammalian diet of prehistoric whales and dolphins.

If they are still alive then I think they would have evolved to be a little smaller by now as well.

While sharks like the Great White show a number of similar features, it was more likely that the Megalodon was a dead end on the evolutionary tree. They were just too big and too demanding on their environment and when temperatures changed and the populations of large mammals in the ocean dwindled, they became too confined and food was to scarce for them to survive. They were a warm water species, which also makes it highly doubtful they could follow large mammals during their migrations and also makes it incredibly unlikely that they are lurking in the depths.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
BffSatan at 8:47AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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isukun
Except that an animal cannot just change their diet to whatever they want at their convenience. Larger Sharks don't eat mammals because they happen to be there, their actively seek them out because they need the nutrients present in their biological makeup. As I said before, the Great White will seek out mammalian prey because it cannot survive on fish alone. Evidence points to the Megalodon also favoring a mammalian diet of prehistoric whales and dolphins.
It's pretty rare for any animal to pass up good meat, a megalodon would behave like a shark and sharks are know to scavenge and would eat just about anything. If an animal can catch prey it eats it, thoose have always been the rules of survival and every carnivour does it.
Plenty of animals do change their diets to match what is available. In Australia we've had cane toads introduced, they've been quite a pest for a while but now native animals have been learning to eat around the poison and eat them, so a megaladon could change it's diet.


Someone
While sharks like the Great White show a number of similar features, it was more likely that the Megalodon was a dead end on the evolutionary tree. They were just too big and too demanding on their environment and when temperatures changed and the populations of large mammals in the ocean dwindled, they became too confined and food was to scarce for them to survive. They were a warm water species, which also makes it highly doubtful they could follow large mammals during their migrations and also makes it incredibly unlikely that they are lurking in the depths.
It is more likely, but animals evolve, the other possibility is that the smaller of the species survived.

Also appologies for bad grammar and spelling, it's like 3 AM, I should be in bed or something.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
ozoneocean at 8:50AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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There are particular types of wound characteristic of different types of bites. It's really quite specific. You don't just see a bite and go “um, that's a bite, what normally bites that thing?”. You can tell a LOT from different kinds of wounds. If large whales (for instance) had unexplained wounding, then you'd examine them and look for tell tale signs to see what sort of thing could have caused it.
Have years of pathology documentaries on the discovery channel taught you nothing???!!! :)
Man, you can even tell a lot just from looking at old wounding marks on 200 million year old bones! Whole careers have been built on theories surrounding such things. A lot of what we “know” of the eating, fighting habits etc. even the appearance of many dinosaurs is based on wounding marks on bones. So don't imagine that it's random guesswork. Of course it's easier to see from a flesh wound.

Besides, you're assuming that this extinct creature with the big teeth just simply bites gouges out of things like a guy eating an apple. Sharks bite and attack in all sorts of ways. usually from what I've seen a lot of them try and snap at something and then shake their head to the side to try and tear it or shear in with their cutting teeth. Presumably a big, powerful, massive creature like a whale with a tough, thick, blubbery hide could take a bite attempt like that to its side and survive to retaliate. Especially since they often travel in pods and can definitely rely on a bit of backup.

Sure as hell you'd easily recognise what looked like bite marks from a gigantic shark on a whale, especially since we know exactly what they look like at the normal size. Looking at the attack marks from giant squids on sperm whales was one of the ways scientists learned about the habits of that particular hard to find undersea giant. ;)


As fun as this conversation is, this mega shark beast will stay a jawbone and a bunch of teeth, nothing more. Unless people decide to get all cloney…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
BffSatan at 9:14AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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When looking at old bones they do that up close, biologists don't get close to the whale (except in Japan, but they aren't marine biologist) I think if they saw a bite they wouldn't see it for long enough to realise how big it was and if they did notice it they wouldn't write down in their journal “today we saw a whale and it had a megalodon bite in it.” They would have probably noted a mysterious wound and no one would have thought much of it. It's rare that they would get close enough to examine the bite enough to notice that it could only be made by a megalodon, regardless of the size of the bite from far.
Besides chances of a biologist seeing a megalodon attack surrvivor is rare if you consider that only a small perchentage of whales are examined by scientists, only a small perchentage of whales are attacked by megalodon and only a certain perchentage of thoose escape. So you probably have a very small number of whales who have been seen and none of thoose would have been seen close enough to arouse suspiscion.
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ozoneocean at 9:32AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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That's completely fatuous!
As I said with Giant squid: they found out the wounding on Sperm Whales was caused by those elusive creatures before anyone had even seen them *alive!
*(apart from the non-scientists who'd been reporting them for a thousand years…)

And besides that, as I also said:
- Shark bites are extremely easy to recognise since we already know exactly what they look like, a big ione would be so much more remarkable and easy to spot.

-If any animal were to be attacked by a mega-whatsit, a sperm whale would survive it much more easily than any other creature alive; not only because they are very tough, thick hided creatures, but also most especially because they swim in pods and help one another.

-If any creature would encounter a mega-doodle-fish, it would be a sperm whale since they WOULD swim in the same areas (based on their physiology), and they WOULD have encounters. 100% certainty.

-You would see them (attack survivors) too most likely, simply because there aren't that many sperm whales IN the ocean and we're aware of most of the individuals.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
SpANG at 9:50AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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All good points, to be sure.

Less than 5% of the deep-sea has been explored, and even less than that sampled biologically. Yet we know that sharks live at least as deep as 12,000 feet (3,660 metres) and Sperm Whales are believed to dive to 10,000 feet (3,050 metres) in search of squid. If there's enough food down there for 60-foot (18-metre) whales, there is probably enough to support Megalodon. OF course, Megalodon would have had to adapt to colder waters if this is even possible.

New and unprecedented marine creatures are still being discovered, some of them quite large - like the 15-foot (4.5-metre) Megamouth Shark discovered in November 1976. And as I said before, Coelicanths were believed to have been extinct for tens of millions of years, but were rediscovered in 1938 off the coast of South Africa. However, the discovery of new species does not, of itself, imply that a particular species is still around.

There have been numerous, consistent reports by credible witnesses of gigantic sharks - like the 100+-foot (30+-metre) ghostly whitish shark reported from Broughton Island, Australia, in 1918, which was seen by several experienced commercial crayfishermen. And sure, eye-witness acounts are very unreliable. But, even ozoneocean admits:
(The giant squid thing)… should be an example of how blind and stupid the scientific establishment can be- since for decades they weren't just sceptical, but flat-out refused to countenance the possibility of the creature and only regarded it as a legend, whereas the people who should actually KNOW- Fisherman, sailors, beach goers, etc. had been reporting sightings and accurate descriptions for millennia.

In summation, I think we all pretty much agree that it is highly, highly unlikely. But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. ;)
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
ozoneocean at 10:08AM, Jan. 19, 2009
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Hahaha, With the squids you had a lot more reports though, which is the thing :)
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More reading about Sperm whales tells me that those clever monster mammals would not only be likely to encounter mega-doodles, but would probably hunt and kill them. Those beasties have taken out ships in revenge for attacks. I doubt a long monster shark, no matter how big its mouth, that's the same size as them would stand a chance. They're damned smart creatures.

If anything, the existence of sperm whales makes the existence of mega-sharks more unlikely, since they'd be going for the same prey and even though the oceans are quite vast, I don't think they're vast enough to support both these types of big gluttons…

Megamouths are plankton eaters, like most big sea creatures. So it's likely that's one of the reasons they were harder to spot. A predator like the megadon would have to range much further and wider for its dinner. Like Isukun says
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
martinlo_23 at 2:06PM, Jan. 19, 2009
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I think Megalodon could exist…we haven't explored too much sea to approve or deny it.
Our submarines won't go to the deeeeeeeeeeeeeep sea, i mean deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep sea, like when is too dark to see.Maybe there is a lot of food there and Meagalodon or anything giant thingy could keep himself feed.

I think i wouldn't go to the ocean.If i dont't response in 1 week, a Megalodon killed me. ;)
DarkMartio rules.(That's me.) The cake is a lie. I heard u lieks mudkips.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:54PM
martinlo_23 at 2:07PM, Jan. 19, 2009
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But im not approving it.Ok?
DarkMartio rules.(That's me.) The cake is a lie. I heard u lieks mudkips.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:54PM

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