Debate and Discussion

Modesty going out the window for young girls
Rimbaum at 9:31PM, Oct. 22, 2006
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Should I ever have a daughter, I will learn how to sew and I will make all of her clothes myself, should I not be able to find anything that doesn't make her look like a little slutty whore. I'm only thankful that I was able to see what was wrong with society from a very young age (being a social outcast does have a few perks, but not until later in life) and can hopefully pass this on to my children if/when I ever have any.

I mean it, too. I'll make my daughter's clothes and let her pick out what styles (to a certain extent) that she wants me to make. It's cheaper than buying designer clothing, and you have total control over what you get out of the deal.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:08PM
Black_Kitty at 9:59PM, Oct. 22, 2006
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But the direct influence of alluring sexualised media can not be very strong, simply because young children don't pick up on the same cues as adults (wet lips, cleavage, etc. and I dunno what for women… Tight buttocks? Hard muscled torsos?) which are often the only aspects of such media that are of any interest in that respect. Their brains just aren't capable of reading what they see in the same way that ours do. There are real physical, chemical changes that have yet to take place, as well as years of experience, in order for that to happen

I'm not sure if I'm off my rocker so bear with me if I do sound like that. :)

I don't think young children (which I'm not honestly sure how young we're talking about but uh, we'll just keep going) pick up the cues on say, television, the same way as adults do. But I think they pick up a vague sense of these cues. (Although this kind of thing is really dependent on the environment in which the child grows up in.)

Let's take say, body image for example. They may not be able to rationalize the perky firm breasts, nice hips, wet lips, and long slim legs but they may be able to draw the conclusion that the ladies with this particular body type is much more acceptable by others then say, the short lady who weighs 200 pounds.

But we may at the same time tell children that our physical appearance is not as important as our character.

Let's say I have a daughter. I tell her “oh honey, you're beautiful just the way you are and it's what on the insides that really matter.” But then I turn around and tell my friends how much I hate how I look, how fat my thighs are, and how I wish I could look like so-and-so. Or maybe she'll turn on the TV and the only people she sees in a positive light are the ones who fit a certain body type.

A girl in a beauty pageant dancing around in a skimpy cowgirl outfit may not understand the sexual meaning behind her dance or her outfit…but what she may understand is that it might make the judges like her. She might be crowned queen of whatever if she does it better then the other girls.

I remember when I was a kid there were these white Pop Eye candy sticks and we would stand around pretending they were cigrettes. I didn't know what the implications of smoking were or the health issues related to smoking. I just knew the adults did them and I was playing a role. Sometimes kids don't have to understand or rationalize the implication behind an action in order to mimic them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
SheaSummers at 2:50AM, Oct. 23, 2006
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Zenstrive
oh yes Islam does demand that. But Islam also able to tell them to “take it slowly” and “be hopeful that inspirations will come to you, girl”.

as for the rest of religions and faiths that use veils, i think their veils have to be faith-specific forms and colors.

Demand to sexualise young children? hmm..lets see..perhaps it is a way for mothers to make their little girls to fall to the same traps that have eaten them earlier?

No, Islam doesn't demand it. It's a societal thing. Any Muslim that claims that Islam demands it are reffering to laws written by old Kings and such, not actual words from the Koran. I mean, yeah, to some degree, Islam says to cover up, but by no means does it say to cover up head to toe and leave just the eyes for sight. I'm a Muslim, I should know!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
kyupol at 7:56AM, Oct. 23, 2006
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Feminism and women's rights are a self-contradiction.

First, its all about liberation, dignity, and equality… which are noble causes. I agree with them on that. Women should have the same rights and the same opportunities as men.

But I think they've gone too far. They dont like religion… Islam and Christianity are culprits for making women dress conservatively and all that. But according to these religions, dressing up conservatively is for the purpose of protecting the dignity of women.

These two religions arent oppressive to women. In Christianity, there are some groups that have a strong devotion to Mother Mary. They pray to her, they worship her… like she's a goddess or something (though they claim that its only “veneration” and not “worship” which are 2 different things) In Islam, it is considered a big sin to treat women harshly. Remember when US troops raped a muslim girl? And look what happened to those 2 soldiers who did that. I saw the vid on ogrish.com. They were dragged on the dirt, cut to pieces and burned while their bodies were stoned and stepped on.

Anyway, Feminists also despise pornography. Why is that? Porn pays huge sums of money per hour to a girl for being in a porno film. Being in a porno film gets lots of fans and guys worshipping you. Its not like they're forced into it or anything. They do it by their choice.


So what I'm getting here is that Feminism is all about power.

They demand that it is only the woman's right to exercise control in the relationship and regulate the amount of sex. Religion and porn limit or take away their power.

Religion - sex only to the husband and in marriage. No power to have sex with 20 men.

Porn and escorts - give sex away at a small price. These fembots and manginas wanna give sex away at overpriced prices. You spend $10 for a porn magazine, $5 for a month's subscription to a porn site, and at the most $500 for the hottest escorts in town. That is far cheaper than all the heartache and losing half your assets in a divorce court which is 70% more chance of happening.

It all boils down to power. And too much power is bad.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
ozoneocean at 9:07AM, Oct. 23, 2006
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Black_Kitty
Sometimes kids don't have to understand or rationalize the implication behind an action in order to mimic them.
True of course. But my point was more that the parents would have to be a greater factor in turning children onto these things because the sexual cues in the imagery simply don't register with the kids. The best analogy is like watching TV in a different language: you can still sort of see what's going on, but you miss out on most of what's happening. To further apply that to your imitation example: the words that I might pick up on and imitate after watching a Russian (for example) TV show would probably be total gibberish if I repeated them to a Russian speaker, and probably nothing to do with the plot or idea of the story. As a non-Russian speaker I wouldn't be able to properly follow the show, or recognise and repeat crucial points in the dialogue, without guidance!
-That's convoluted, but the best way I can illustrate it.

And Sexual cues are not tied to rationalisation and implication. Imagery in a pop video of a scantily clad woman dancing around interests me long before I bother to think about it, if at all. :)

And I agree with the body image thing. But that's a little different. Body image affects both sexes and has always done (although we treat it as something new), just look at the statues of ancient Greece. It's part of the whole of the old “Ugly Duckling” story; it's not ultimately about body image at all per se, it's really out “fitting in”.

I think we're becoming really unfocussed now though… Or perhaps far too specific? Getting back on track, I refuse to blame anyone but a child's immediate family for sexualising the way that child dresses and acts. -and not the child itself, as was Aussie Kid's original contention (or so it seems). But after a child reaches puberty and becomes more mature that changes, and so it should.

Kyupol, you are addressing an entirely different subject. We're not discussing feminism or women's rights here. Why don't you start another debate on them? You've obviously got a well formed point of view on the subject and some interesting things to say.

Let's not turn this discussion about what young girls wear into a general discussion about why women who don't conform to some kind of ideal are just dirty sluts. That's really irritating.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
kyupol at 4:18PM, Oct. 23, 2006
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Let's not turn this discussion about what young girls wear into a general discussion about why women who don't conform to some kind of ideal are just dirty sluts. That's really irritating.

Ok I'm sorry…

I forgot… lets not judge the book by its cover. ^^

When we get to the children's section, all I can find for the 8-year-old are two pieces that reveal a little too much. The least revealing one I could find she wouldn't wear because it was too itchy. It was a sleeveless crop top with string briefs. Finally, I decided that we could get her one of the revealing ones if we also got her a sunshirt.

Young girls who wear clothes that reveal a little too much are just liberated… and would grow up to be liberated liberal women who will be productive members of society… and would also be assets to your company should you hire them.

Thats a great idea. Lets contact the HR magazine and tell employers to stop being narrow minded. Just because she dresses like a slut doesnt mean she wont be a good employee. Just because he dresses like teh gengsta flow masta doesnt mean that he wont be a good employee.

If such individuals are hired, definitely… productivity will increase 300% and the company will be in the fortune 500.

Its a fact and its scientifically proven indeed… that many great men and women of society dress like that. I just dont have any evidence… but thats what I think so it must be right. :)
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
ozoneocean at 4:39PM, Oct. 23, 2006
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And do you dress the same way now as you did when you were a little kid?
When you go to a job interview, do you wear the same clothes as you did when you were a teen hanging out with your friends?
Would you like me to be in charge of what you do and don't wear? Or maybe Black Kitty?

Just don't be silly. Start a new topic about misogyny, misandry, feminism, gender politics etc. That would be a better place for all this stuff. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
Black_Kitty at 5:13PM, Oct. 23, 2006
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ozoneocean
True of course. But my point was more that the parents would have to be a greater factor in turning children onto these things because the sexual cues in the imagery simply don't register with the kids. The best analogy is like watching TV in a different language: you can still sort of see what's going on, but you miss out on most of what's happening. To further apply that to your imitation example: the words that I might pick up on and imitate after watching a Russian (for example) TV show would probably be total gibberish if I repeated them to a Russian speaker, and probably nothing to do with the plot or idea of the story. As a non-Russian speaker I wouldn't be able to properly follow the show, or recognise and repeat crucial points in the dialogue, without guidance!
-That's convoluted, but the best way I can illustrate it.

Interestingly, when I was a kid I used to watch a lot of Japanese cartoons in Japanese. I didn't understand a word of it though but I remember playing pretend with my future cousins (their aunt later married my uncle so no, I wasn't high or anything :D) based on it. I also remember imitating my dad and not realizing that those were actually Cantonese swear words I was imitating until my mom yelled at me for it. Just because I didn't know what I was saying didn't change the fact that those were Cantonese swear words coming out of my mouth.

I guess I'm just nitpicking here. ^^;;;; I don't disagree that ultimately it's the parents that dresses their children so the parents hold much of the responsibility. Oh hell, my mother was influencing how I dressed even in my teenage years. I didn't really mind though, she had a better sense of fashion then I did. :)

I'm not sure who said it but I disagree on the idea that if a girl dresses like a slut, they should be treated like a slut. Certainly they should accept the baggage that comes with it but those are dangerous grounds to be treading on.

As a side note, back in high school I had to wear uniforms. All the students complain about them but most of my friends now agree: the uniform was the best thing to ever happen and if we can, we're going to stick our kids in them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
yeahduff at 8:51PM, Oct. 23, 2006
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Christ, is this Drunk Duck or Kabul?
Get yourself a lawyer and a gun.


last edited on July 14, 2011 4:53PM
SheaSummers at 8:55PM, Oct. 23, 2006
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yeahduff
Christ, is this Drunk Duck or Kabul?

It's funny how you use Kabul… even though there are many conservative Christians that would argue the same on this issue. Haha… jeez, vote Republican lately? :-P
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
yeahduff at 10:29PM, Oct. 23, 2006
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That wasn't a knock on Islam, that was a knock on radical Islam. Christians are assholes to women by doctrine (hilarious how someone here argued otherwise), but nothing so dramatic as the treatment of women in good ole Afghanistan. Point me to a city in Alabama where they don't allow women to drive, leave the house unattended, or appear in public if an inch of flesh is showing, I'll use that as an example from now on.

And I voted Nader in 2000.
Get yourself a lawyer and a gun.


last edited on July 14, 2011 4:53PM
ozoneocean at 11:29PM, Oct. 23, 2006
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We're really talking about little girls here, not women in general. If that's what you'd rather discuss, make a new topic ok? :)
-Buuuuuuuuuut, the Kabul example isn't such a good one, you could just as well reference the Amish. The Taliban are a weird MILITANT movement, not a branch of Islam. They use it to justify their ideas like the Branch Davidians used Koresh's interpretation of Christianity to justify giving him their young daughters to have sex with.

Anyway, Get back on topic! I'll start a new topic for you guys since you're too lazy.
GO HERE if you want to bang on about women, men, religion, gender etc.!

BK. Yeah, my analogy wasn't that great :)
That's a good point about school uniforms though. It forces conformity on young people, but it also helps them to avoid a lot of other problems as well.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
ccs1989 at 3:00PM, Oct. 24, 2006
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If you're looking for a sect of Islam, the Wahabist sect is the one which Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden are a part of. But that's off topic.

This is my view on this topic: Balance is best in all things. If society was more rational, they'd wear a mix between conservative garb and nothing at all. Plus nudity isn't a BAD thing, it's just been over-sexualized in culture. And obviously if it's cold out you should wear more, and if it's warm out you can wear less. I guess it's over-sexualization that gets people, instead of the ‘wearing less’ thing.

I don't know though. Aside from my personal views on the issue and what's causing it, I'm not exactly “really well informed”.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
yeahduff at 8:23PM, Oct. 24, 2006
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OK, religion really had nothing to do with my comment. I likened the attitude of this thread to life in Afghanistan not because I think you are all Wahabists (who, yes, I'm familiar with), but because of the irrational fear of female sexuality being displayed in this thread, something that the Taliban is well known for. I didn't use the Amish because they don't violently enforce their opinions about sex, and you're mostly free to go if you wish. I found the discussion to be more militant disgust than quiet disapproval and scorn, so Taliban it was.

You're right Ozone, the topic is girls, but my comment was aimed at the attitudes being displayed here, whether or not they were on topic.

But OK, on topic. You really can't blame little girls for wanting to look what their minds have determined is beautiful. They're just kids, soaking up the world around them and making sense of it, finding what they want out of it and what's expected of them. Plenty of blame to go around otherwise, though. Parents shouldn't just cave in to any whim their children might have. They have a responsibility to set boundaries and help kids learn to think for themselves despite what all the other kids are doing. But the corporations certainly have a responsibility. Do we really think they have no say at all in what a child wants? These companies aren't passive, they work aggressively to ensure that what kids want is what they're selling. There's a reason they spend billions on advertising. But this reflects how society judges beauty and how fast we expect children to grow up. Beauty and sex appeal are often related, they're not the same thing, and I think too many of us have forgotten that on the way toward commodifying sex. Makes sense that girls look up to someone like Paris Hilton as if she were Cinderella because we're not offering anything in the way of an alternative. Don't blame kids for not cherishing modesty if it's not something we cherish either.
Get yourself a lawyer and a gun.


last edited on July 14, 2011 4:53PM
SheaSummers at 10:28PM, Oct. 24, 2006
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It's a sect of Islam, but it's not something that can really be called a sect. It's more like something that spawned off of actual Islamic sects due to government influene from certain parties. As far as I know, religion starts off with one idea and slowly branches off when people don't agree with one another… and spawn off these litle branches.

If you want examples of stuff like that from Alabama, you won't find any! Simple as that, but I wasn't talking about extreme things, just how over exposure is shunned in places like that. So in fact, you are using extreme examples of a religion and making things seem worse about a religion already in perilous times. I mean, it's really people like that who make the religion seem bad, when someone tries to defend it, someone else comes along and gives the worst example possible within the topic and put it down. Alabama sure doesn't have stuff like that, none at all. But a long time ago, foreigners stepped on this land and raped and killed many Native Americans (children and women) and converted a lot of them. Sure that had nothing to do with what is REALLY being discussed but it's an extreme example ^_^. Not very fair, is it?

Back to topic.

I think it starts with the idea to show that women can be sexy but it reaches kids slowly and surely, especially those that aren't taught well by their parents. People like Paris Hilton are over sexed and little girls do indeed look up to them because they seem to be all over the news, especially described with words like “HOT!” and “TRENDY”. I think parents should be able to step in and tell them otherwise. Women don't cover up like they did in the 50's but there is still existing fashion where being covered up is still considered sexy. Look at Christina Aguillera, her new modest look is pretty sexy without exposing as much as she did in her whore phase. Parents should really point out stuff like that (but use much less controversial figures), that someone can look beautiful without needing to expose themselves. You can't stop the corporations because the big gears are in motion and the ones that can stop them get money off of them. When faced with these scenarios, the parents have to be strict or just let their kids wander off into their Paris Hilton phases. Heck, the same thing can be said even with the gross idea of these actresses wanting to be bone thin!

Nader looked creepy and always scared me. I was only 16 during 2000.



last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
Aurora Moon at 12:27PM, Oct. 25, 2006
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Rich
And the parents that let girls dress like this are fucking assholes. I don't even want to hear that bullshit “oh, but she won't listen to me” or “i dont wana stop my daughter from expressing myself”. If a parent doesn't have a fucking backbone, then they should have their children taken from them. And letting your daughter dress like a skank shows a lack of a backbone to me.

the type of parent that dresses the same exact way and is actually PROUND of thier kids for dressing the same way is even worse.
I knew somebody who dressed so skanky, and she was buying the same kind of clothes for her 6-year-old daughter, and feeling so proud that her daughter wanted to be “mature and grown-up”, and even actually let her go out with this 8-year-old boy on dates that she claimed was “not really dates, but more like pretend dates” alone to the movie therates and stuff.

that just about disgusted me, and I started talking nonstop to her about how pedophiles tend to target children like that, and how they like to go to places like Movie therates where it's dark in there during the movie… making it hard for people to see what guys like them would be doing to children who's alone there. and also very easy for them to kidnap. like: “I see that you only had enough for one popcorn bag and one large container of soda. you seem like such a nice kid, how about you come with me and I'll buy some candy for you from the staff?”
I also kept on bringing up stastics of all the places that kids gets kidnapped the most, or statics of places that they got killed at the most.

and I also talked about how that type of clothes can't help but give out an sexualized message to people, no matter how much people don't want it to seem sexualized at all. and thus it attracts a lot of attention to children as sex object, increasing the number of pedophiles, or would-be pedophiles (people who actually wonders about what it would be like to have sex with girls that young and actually doesn't get disgusted by the idea, but wouldn't ever dare do it at all)……

needless to say, I actually managed to convice her never again to let her child go out unecsorted by her… but I didn't manage to make her stop dressing her child slutty. (sigh).
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
glenoneill at 4:03PM, Oct. 25, 2006
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I blame MTV.

I blame everything on MTV.
MTV is the devil.

“Look Ma' The Devil's on TV again”

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:38PM
BigFishComic at 5:07PM, Oct. 25, 2006
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This is pretty old but I just read through everything so,

Hawk
And I fully disagree with that. She fails to realize just how powerful a man's hormones are. It would be much easier for a girl to wear a skirt that actually covers her unmentionables than for all the men around her to reprogram their inner chemistry. Women should know the intended effects of their wardrobe on men. I think most do and it's why they wear what they wear.

This…this is very close to the rational that guys use to defend themselves when they rape a woman. “She should have known better than to dress like a slut if she didn't want to get raped!” (sidenote: There is no excuse for raping a girl. I don't care if the stupid bitch was drunk off her ass and asking for a fuck, she's not thinking straight and you know it.) A girl should be able to dress like a slut all she wants and not have to worry about guys getting turned on because “men's hormones are just SO powerful.” I seriously doubt most women dress really sexily with the intention of giving a guy a boner unless they're exhibitionists.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:22AM
Rich at 5:10PM, Oct. 25, 2006
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If they do dress like that, they should be expecting men to look at them. No, dressing in skanky clothes makes them no more likely to get raped, but they should still expect men to stare.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:06PM
Aurora Moon at 6:27PM, Oct. 25, 2006
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Rich
If they do dress like that, they should be expecting men to look at them. No, dressing in skanky clothes makes them no more likely to get raped, but they should still expect men to stare.

yep, what he said. the only women around here that ever dressed like that, they seem to enjoy the attention of men, and keeps on wearing such things for the same reason, so that they can get dates and such.

yet at times they complain if a man stares at her way too much even though they enjoy most of the attention! WTF.

that's what gets me… it's right up there with most rape cases actually being false rape, seriously harming the cases of those who were seriously raped. it's those same kind of women who hurts the creditablity of the rest of us as an whole… and that just seriously burns my buns!

next they might want to walk around competely stark naked and demand that people not stare at them at all for not wearing clothes. that would only work in an nudist camp, but it doesn't just work else where……

why? because the human body can be a very beautiful thing… or very ugly, depending on the person. and the one thing about human nature– humans tend to stare at those things that are beautiful to them. or if it's like a train wreck…they want to look away, but they can't seem to!

so an man will stare at a woman because she's very beautiful to him, as seeing men do have at tendcy to like to look at pretty things even if they won't admit it.
if a woman feels too uncomfortable about the amount of time that a man stares at her, she should politely let him know that she feels uncomfortable about the amount of time that he looks at her or in the way he looks at her… but not accuse him of being a pervert or something else.
if he refuses to stop, then that's when you can accuse him. but don't assume right away that he is.. espeically if he was willing to stop and apolize for enjoying the woman's beauty in a way that made her uncomfortable.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
yeahduff at 8:55PM, Oct. 25, 2006
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Women dressed in a sexy manner should certainly expect a reaction. It doesn't mean they forefit their respect.

SheaSummers
If you want examples of stuff like that from Alabama, you won't find any! Simple as that, but I wasn't talking about extreme things, just how over exposure is shunned in places like that. So in fact, you are using extreme examples of a religion and making things seem worse about a religion already in perilous times. I mean, it's really people like that who make the religion seem bad, when someone tries to defend it, someone else comes along and gives the worst example possible within the topic and put it down. Alabama sure doesn't have stuff like that, none at all. But a long time ago, foreigners stepped on this land and raped and killed many Native Americans (children and women) and converted a lot of them. Sure that had nothing to do with what is REALLY being discussed but it's an extreme example ^_^. Not very fair, is it?

I'm sorry this all got confused, but Islam isn't the point. The fear of female sexuality of this thread is what concerned me, and I used an extreme example to comment upon it. I coulda said “Is this DrunkDuck or 17th Century Salem?” Coulda said “Is this a webcomic community or the Rush Limbaugh fansite?” Coulda said a lot of things. Taliban was handy, and, unfortunately, valid. I realize they are an abomination of Islam, and that most muslims are good people. Sorry if I offended you, but it was a fear and hatred of sexuality that I was appealing to, not a belief in any particular god.

And yeah, Nader is a little creepy looking, but Gore just wasn't doing anything for me that year.


Get yourself a lawyer and a gun.


last edited on July 14, 2011 4:53PM
Hawk at 9:56PM, Oct. 25, 2006
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yeahduff
I'm sorry this all got confused, but Islam isn't the point. The fear of female sexuality of this thread is what concerned me, and I used an extreme example to comment upon it. I coulda said “Is this DrunkDuck or 17th Century Salem?” Coulda said “Is this a webcomic community or the Rush Limbaugh fansite?” Coulda said a lot of things. Taliban was handy, and, unfortunately, valid. I realize they are an abomination of Islam, and that most muslims are good people. Sorry if I offended you, but it was a fear and hatred of sexuality that I was appealing to, not a belief in any particular god.

I think the main point being put forward in this thread is about the way little girls dress and the possibilitie of it inspiring pedophilic thoughts or actions. I guess that's a fancy way of saying we don't want our little children to be sexy. I'll betcha many of the people here would openly admit that they don't mind a sexy fully-grown woman.

To be honest with you, when this thread started out I figured we'd soon have people saying “Bewbs and kewl!” and “More skin FTW!” Maybe I underestimated the people here, thinking them to be the "gore and nudity make anything better" kind of people.

You guys made a very good and intelligent conversation. Way to go.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
Aurora Moon at 5:09AM, Oct. 26, 2006
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Hawk
To be honest with you, when this thread started out I figured we'd soon have people saying “Bewbs and kewl!” and “More skin FTW!” Maybe I underestimated the people here, thinking them to be the "gore and nudity make anything better" kind of people.

Gore and nudity does make anything better.. in movies and in Webcomics.


Nah. just kidding. :D it gonna got some story too, or else it's just all boring.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
Aurora Moon at 5:37AM, Oct. 26, 2006
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but to get back to the seriousness…

yeah, the main point is that there's people out there who's dressing children up to be sexy, and there's not a lot of choices anymore in certain areas, only the things that are too “sexy”.

but people are talking about why the media focuses on such things.. as seeing the media might be part of the problem. people are talking also about why society and some people find such things sexy.. (not children in those clothes, but just the clothes itself.)

I certainly don't see that type of clothing sexy… you know, those miniskirts and tube tops and stuff. it's like you're not even trying to create what I term an “sexy mystery”… like leave people wondering about parts of you. like: “She has great legs!! I wonder if it's the jeans she's wearing or just really how her legs are?”
etc. that sorta thing.
if you leave only your breasts barely covered, and your lower body barely covered, then there's no mystery there at all.. nothing for people to wonder about. most complete strangers would know right away about any moles or whatever else you might have on your body. your own body would be no longer personal, and parts of your body wouldn't even be a nice serect/surpise for future boyfriends and or girlfriends… for everyone and their grandma would had seen almost all of you.
and in the end, the guys won't even want to stay with the girls long term because it's like what they've seen, everyone else proably have seen too. and I don't mean in the slutty way of like sex and stuff… just the fact that everyone would proably notice where your birthmarks, moles ahd whatever else is. and everyone knows about that type of stuff, not just only your closest people such as your boyfriend.

“Yeah, see that girl with the mole on her left shoulderblade? the one with the smily face scar thing on her upper right leg. Yeah, that one. she's totally hot. no, I don't know her. but I'd like to know how she got that smily face scar.. it's a very intersting scar. conidsering that it's so high up on her leg, I can't help but wonder if she got it during an embrassing moment of inmanticy, if you know what I mean. (wink, nudge). I'm proably right about that too…. amazing how much I can know about an total stranger just by looking at parts of thier body that they left uncovered.”

and that's kinda creepy.
to me that's not sexy.

so why does people focus on that so much? shock vaule?
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
ozoneocean at 8:42AM, Oct. 26, 2006
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I'd just like to endorse this:
Hawk
“Bewbs and kewl!” and “More skin FTW!”
I heartilly agree (even if the context is missing), BUT ONLY FOR ADULT WOMEN!

But the topic is still about young girls. You can argue about women not wearing enough clothes, but that's pointless. Women can and will make their own choices unless they're part of various conservative societies, but even then the men face pretty similar restrictions in that regard as well- ever hear of the Taliban arresting and killing men for not having beards or even beards of the right length?

But back to young girls. It's NOT a lack of modesty that's the problem because children are not sexual beings. They don't HAVE any modesty to start with. They get that from their parents, just like their clothes. Up to a certain age most kids will happilly run around naked, whatever the venue. That's fair enough, but it is up to the families of these children not to deliberately sexualise them through the choice of clothes that they buy for them.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
SheaSummers at 3:36PM, Oct. 26, 2006
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I still think that children today are a lot smarter about the world around them then the children of the past. My brother, nine years younger than me, understands a lot more stuff about the world than I did at his age. Ozone is right, modesty isn't something that children have fully developed and would love to run around naked, but I think young girls that are barely 10 know somethings about modesty and about sex and stuff to a certain degree. These are the girls that are also dressing a certain way because their idols are dressing that way. These are also the same girls that are trying so hard to get laid and manipulate boys and such because they saw it somewhere and think it's right. It's not entirely their fault, but when they see something they are somewhat familiar with, they should have the ability to know right from wrong and choose not to go ahead with doing it.

Ex:

My brother was in the seventh grade last year. He knew guys and girls that were dating, which is cute and stuff because that's when a lot of kids start getting into the whole dating phase. What wasn't cute was the way a lot of the girls dressed. I knew girls in my local high school that dressed more conservatively than those 12 year olds. My brother also saw girls and guys exchanging hand jobs and such. I don't want my brother to see this at his age…

That was a pretty extreme example because the school he attends is one of the citie's worst schools (he got stuck there due to zoning rules) but it's things like that which I think show that girls are being less and less modest at an younger age with each generation.


Women, on the other hand, are dressing pretty provacatively as well, but other women are dressing more conservatively too! Women are old enough to know fully what's right and wrong and make their decisions accordingly. But the women that also happen to be mothers, they need to teach their kids how to act and what's right and wrong. And if needed, I think they have to tone down what they wear for their kids to learn. Well, that's just my opinion on mothers…
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:33PM
Tantz Aerine at 9:42AM, Oct. 29, 2006
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Black_Kitty
Little girls are often dressed up in a sexualized way but we don't like to think of them as sexual beings. We expect them not to be sexual but we turn around and approve of a sexually charged media. We tell them that it's what's inside that matters but then we bring out the skinny sexualized models.

On a related note…I never had problems buying conservative clothing. But I live in a city so there are a lot more choices here.

Children are called children because they are not adolescents and certainly not adults. It's traumatic for a child to be introduced to adult patterns of behavior, even if the child behaviorally shows he/she likes it (they like it only because it's a form to please the caretaker). Children should never be pushed to wear clothing that is not of their (cultural) age range.

I think however, that what you said, Black Kitty, happens because there is no real room for childhood in modern society- just as there is no room for the so-called ‘third age’. You are simply not allowed to be elderly or show the mark of time. Modern society only reinforces 20-30 year old outlook, behavior pattern and goals. Unfortunately, it tends to enforce them, too- not reinforce them only.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
ozoneocean at 9:25PM, Oct. 30, 2006
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Tantz Aerine: Best post so far in this topic! :)
That was right on the mark in every way. -in my opinion.

Tater Salad: that's really a whole other discussion… That crying face stuff is horrible…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
Tantz Aerine at 4:02AM, Nov. 1, 2006
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ozoneocean
Tantz Aerine: Best post so far in this topic! :)
That was right on the mark in every way. -in my opinion.



Thank you :) I'm glad you appreciate.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
Black_Kitty at 2:42PM, Nov. 1, 2006
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Tantz Aerine
Children are called children because they are not adolescents and certainly not adults. It's traumatic for a child to be introduced to adult patterns of behavior, even if the child behaviorally shows he/she likes it (they like it only because it's a form to please the caretaker). Children should never be pushed to wear clothing that is not of their (cultural) age range.

I'm not sure if you're using my post as some jump off point but I'm not suggesting that children should be introduced to adult patterns of behaviour or that they should be treated as anything but children.

In terms of clothing (and not sexual abuse, child labour, or anything like that), it's only traumatic if a child recognizes that it is not only harmful/negative behaviour but it is something they really do not want to wear.

A child and an adult may be staring at the same piece of clothing but thinking different things. A child may find it pretty and desirable but an adult may view the clothing as sexual and inappropriate for children. Think about Bratz dolls. The majority of the people who complains about them are how old? Does it change the fact that Bratz dolls are sexualized however?

I think however, that what you said, Black Kitty, happens because there is no real room for childhood in modern society- just as there is no room for the so-called ‘third age’. You are simply not allowed to be elderly or show the mark of time. Modern society only reinforces 20-30 year old outlook, behavior pattern and goals. Unfortunately, it tends to enforce them, too- not reinforce them only.

I do agree although I'm kind of thinking of different reasons. I've taught younger kids for my job and they tend to have a busier schedule then I do. A lot of parents push kids too much and there's often pressure on the them to achieve early and “beat the crowd.” Free play seems to be undervalued these days.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM

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