Those extra animations for stupid world of idiotcraft banners use up so much dang energy! Also, not only are they shoving them into our comics, they are putting them under our personal profile! I mean really, weren't we meant to be the only ones who edit our profiles. Those dang banners taint my comic, I mean, now It looks like a piece of cheap crap. Now, I think the Forums are the only place with out ads. Keep the ads on the front page where skoolmunkee posts… We don't want ads, so piss off!

I'm more disturbed about them being on my page. I mean, there was plenty BEFORE.

Maybe if the profile ads were moved to the area below the “Forum Topics Started” area people won't be as bothered. It is understandable that it looks like one is endorsing the ad if it is placed between the bio and the trophies, especially if the reader doesn't notice the word “advertisement”. But if it were moved so that it wasn't smack dab in the profile, it might seem less intrusive. just an idea anyhoo

Profile ads don't bother me. It is marked as an advertisement afterall, and because it is on everyone's profile one can easily infer that the subject didn't put the ads there themselves.

Lexxorodius
Those extra animations for stupid world of idiotcraft banners use up so much dang energy! Also, not only are they shoving them into our comics, they are putting them under our personal profile! I mean really, weren't we meant to be the only ones who edit our profiles. Those dang banners taint my comic, I mean, now It looks like a piece of cheap crap. Now, I think the Forums are the only place with out ads. Keep the ads on the front page where skoolmunkee posts… We don't want ads, so piss off!

….hostile much?

This probably has been mentioned before…but for the new template ad, couldn't that be placed at the very bottom of the page instead of under the comic? Like under or above the black block with the DD links? (Or perhaps even remove that since it's already at the top? Maybe just leave the disclaimer…)
I don't care about the profile ad. I'm not planning to use DD like myspace much anyway…but that's just me.

Lexxorodius
Those extra animations for stupid world of idiotcraft banners use up so much dang energy! Also, not only are they shoving them into our comics, they are putting them under our personal profile! I mean really, weren't we meant to be the only ones who edit our profiles. Those dang banners taint my comic, I mean, now It looks like a piece of cheap crap. Now, I think the Forums are the only place with out ads. Keep the ads on the front page where skoolmunkee posts… We don't want ads, so piss off!

Yeah, you should try to relax. You'll get your point across much more succinctly if you're not cursing and raving while trying to make it.

I'm mostly just afraid to see what's going to be popping up in those advertisements that are on the comic pages. :/ Right now, they're annoying, but semi-tolerable, because they're for comics. I don't want boobs flashing all over my page, or ten minute long WOW movies making the page impossible to load for people on slow connections.

We'll see what happens, I guess.

I just noticed that the greys behind the “email this comic to a friend”/digg/etc" and the grey behind the add right below it do NOT match exactly. They're very close, but not exact.

Damn these designer's eyes!

lol

ozoneocean
Ok, Memmey and Strongbad. You are DD users like everyone else and you've been here a while now, but…
you have to realise that people who work hard at creating comics here at DD have lot more to say about adds on their comic templates than users such as yourselves who aren't really at DD for that particular service so much. ok :)
(I know you have comics here Strongbad, but they're not really as much to you as most of the rest of the people in this thread)

So if you want to contribute to the discussion in a worthwhile way, consider it from the position of the people that do, since it's the adds on user's templates that this whole thread is about.

I'm actually making a suggestion about flash ads. Sorry if that was not obvious. Its just an idea in case you get flash ads that's mind bursting and eye-bleeding psychedelic type or is too distracting, or might be hard on dial-up users, etc, etc. You get my point. I'm sure you can ask the sponsor to provide non-flash ads and I'm sure most of them will be happy to provide it. No biggie.

If for any reason it cant be done. Oh well, it isnt end of the world. I'll still be a DD user. :P

I will add my own two cents even if the protest has been pretty much made clear. While I don't like the sudden onslaught of sticking ads wherever there is (or there isn't) space, I don't have much problem with any other ad except the one right underneath the comic. It's like saying to the readers of any comic ‘hey! You don’t want to be reading this crummy comic- go read the other one!'. Especially when it comes to mood and tone, it is completely disruptive and distracting to have a date ad right under a page where a character dies in the hands of another, for example. It's really ennervating and I think that in the end it is counter productive for those paying for this ad anyway- nobody who is so irritated from an ad will ever click on it and if they do, it is hardly easy to sell stuff to a disgruntled customer.

I think it would be better to have the ad at least under the navigation buttons and the drop-down menu. That way it looks like some sort of link exchange.

And I do hope we never see boobs flashing across our pages, like silentkitty said. That was a really nightmarish scenario.

Ozone, I really like that link you have under your comic banners in your sig. Could I get the code for that? :)

Lexxorodius
Those extra animations for stupid world of idiotcraft banners use up so much dang energy!

FINALLY someone else mentions it. Those things have been slowing down Drunk Duck and pretty much the rest of my computer. And not just making it load slower, but also slowing down everything else while it's playing. I know a lot of you have fast computers and don't mind stuff like that, but I'm running a cheap 2003 Dell that came with minimum specs. It's basically murder on my browser.

I still think the debate over the placement of banners in comics are still important, but those Wow videos are really ruining the quality of the Drunk Duck site.

Tantz Aerine
I think it would be better to have the ad at least under the navigation buttons and the drop-down menu. That way it looks like some sort of link exchange.

I think it's because he's making it part of the tag that it shows up where it is. There are so many sites that have the nav buttons customized or moved to the side he can't just embed the new ad as part of those.

Just as a note to those asking for it moved to the bottom of the page etc. You may as well ask to have it just removed then. The idea (as far as an advertiser wants) is to have this ad so visible that you have to see it. Moving it somewhere else doesn't help to sell it which is the problem DD suggest were having. I'm hoping that if the ad stays it will get us some topical ad spots. I'd hate to have a tide ad or a dating service under my comic. If it helps I'm willing to whip the sales staff with a wet noodle until they do make the tough sale. Otherwise you may as well let project wonderful have the space and fire the sales staff.

I know right under the comic is prime space. I get it. I just wish I could CHOOSE what is advertised on my space. Personally, I don't play WoW, and I don't want to. I play Rappelz and we're kinda in a debate as to what is better >_< I can't tell people about my comic over there because of all the WoW adverts. I wouldn't mind the comic adverts, if I actually LIKED the ones being displayed. They're arn't bad or anything, I just don't read them, and I'd rather display something more to my taste.

As said before, just no pop-up OR pop-under adds. Seriously, I'd just leave. Tripod blasts my BaL visitors with adds and pop-unders that they usually don't want to stay long.

But in retalitation, we could just click all the crappy adds like crazy, and not buy anything. It brings up the referal hits and pays DD.

Wait, wait, wait… Are you telling me that for once Norton's doing something it's supposed to? I can't see these ads. Sweet.

The banner on my page doesn't actually seem to be working right now which is nice (though the grey box with “sponsor” all over it is still there)… But still, I'm really annoyed about it. DD should sell ad space to it's users - in a similar way that Online Comics.net and buzzComix do - a small subscription fee to get your ads get rotated around on the site and appear first during search inquiries… I'd pay for that and I'm sure a good number of other creators would too~ I wouldn't mind displaying those ads so much either.

While I slave away making my comic, attracting thousands of hits per day, DD capitalizes on that and I get nothing in return apart from an obtrusive ad banner messing up my layout and a helpful link leading people away from my work! Considering it's OUR content that people come here for we are well within our rights to complain about it. There are a number of other bits of the site design that the advert could be coded onto like the author's comments or the comment box itself. Just the placement of it right now is ARGH. Makes me want to throttle it or code some sort of CSS thing over it. XD

umm…you get a free site.
with unlimited space for your archive

subcultured
umm…you get a free site.
with unlimited space for your archive

Yes, and we can easily take it to another free site.

and you're free to do so if you wish.

but the ads keep the site afloat. dylan used to support this site with his own money, but it became too costly when it became popular..so we have platinum backing.

but a business only invests if they can make a profit and not just breaking even.

subcultured
and you're free to do so if you wish.

but the ads keep the site afloat. dylan used to support this site with his own money, but it became too costly when it became popular..so we have platinum backing.

but a business only invests if they can make a profit and not just breaking even.

I really don't see anyone saying that they want all the ads removed altogether. It's really just that one under the comics that's getting people's hackles up. And as I said - it would even be fine with me if we had the option of paying a subscription fee to get that ad removed, but we don't have any choice in the matter as it stands right now. It's being shoved there, and you seem to be saying “love it or leave”, which is not really a good attitude for a business to have.

People are expressing legitimate concerns and offering compromises - having such a closed-doors attitude is a surefire way to turn people off.

How about having the ad show only for people who aren't logged in? :/

subcultured
and you're free to do so if you wish.

but the ads keep the site afloat. dylan used to support this site with his own money, but it became too costly when it became popular..so we have platinum backing.

but a business only invests if they can make a profit and not just breaking even.

Of course there is the added bonus for Platinum that they get to invite DD creators to compete in a contest to see who can be the first to turn over their creator rights. Sort of a fertile field, wouldn't you say?
Also, just comparing hits alone, which site gets more views per day, DD or Platinum?

So, if you're looking at the big picture, having Drunkduck “break even” is actually what Platinum should want. It's a large, happy place with thousands of users they get to showcase their product to, plus the added bonus of picking through user material to make their “next big thing”.
If I were them, I'd offer the users premium services at a modest fee instead of putting ads in places that could turn this place into Geocities.

A user poll and a discussion would probably have been a better idea than to just hope that no one cared.

I'd like to chime in on the ads thing a moment. I kind of find the ones by the nav buttons annoying in the way they're sized and bumping down the page, BUT knowing the ad world, I know that is prime real estate for ad sales for Drunk Duck. I think Dylan's idea of having a shared “DD user ads” rotating when there are gaps between paying ads is ideal for building your own readership numbers too.

What bugs me is, when I go to comic here, who has “satellite” sites elsewhere, and they are actively saying “do not click the unendorsed ad”– that's doing Drunk Duck a diservice, especially after they're giving you another outlet for your work. People who don't like the ads could go read your comic on your own hosted site, or the 3 other sites you run your comic on. So if you're here looking for extra readers, you're using Drunk Duck and they don't mind or care, but actively telling people not to click the ads is sort of bad then.

I can host my own sites elsewhere, but I think if I were launching something new, I'd use Drunk Duck for the sheer easyness and built in audience and community that's here already.

Maybe DD can setup a “pay” host side, that's like cheap to not have ads run on your templates? I don't know, it's up to them of course, but yeah, they're paying a lot for shows and they don't have much merchandise, so what's the big deal in selling some ad space? I'm sure they'll figure out placement as they go. Chill!

Ok, so I did over react. But seriously! We don't care about Gods of Arkelaan, or Hero by Night (no offense to the authors) but if we care, we read those comics. Even so, they are both in the top 10 stories as well. But world of warcraft is going to far. And then they had the ads about getting women. CRAZY MUCH?

wyldflowa
an obnoxious banner right there not only spoils that but the whole colour coordination of my pages and the delicate symmetrical balance of zen…

Is it zen? Or is it more a matter of bad feng shui?

;-)

P.S. To Volte, your puny Warcraft Ads won't make me want to go back to that game. Tell Blizzard if they want my business back, to make a better game! The Burning Crusade is horrible. I told them that already, but they didn't listen. Maybe Conan or Warhammer will make them perk up. Or maybe not, since gold farmers keep their subs in the millions!

P.P.S. My tone in the above P.S. isn't meant to be mean. I'm being a bit of a smart aleck. But I'm not like super serious about it. I just wanted to riff on WoW a bit. Re-reading the post made me realize that my humor may be lost and that it might be read as an aggressive postscript. So here's an edit to clarify.

I tried to post this eariler today but the site like…crashed and no comics existed for a hour or more….but the main page had a Dell pop up!! EKKK.

Original message:

Maybe none of you remember, but before that New Year Crash 2 years ago (I think?) we did have a pay membership that removed adds when they browsed (not that it removed it permately on their site for non-subscribed ducklings). Did everyone just forget about this? Or maybe I'm just old -_-' alot of people left after that because the coding was obliterated. I'm sure I'm not the only one who stuck around.

And…it does seem unfair that some comics get more attention than others. It was the same complaints about the top 10 lists, but now it's adverts. I dunno, but if someone is reading my comic, do I really want them clicking on someone else's comic that I don't endorse myself (mostly because it's plastered everywhere), potentially leaving my work on the back burner? oh, yea, thanks >_<

And I agree with Roguehill 100%. Platinum wants good ideas to be signed to them-and quite frankly, dd is like a massive portfolio that they can flip through for each of us for potential publishing. I'm not saying that they steal our work, or publish without permission, like some believe, but they do have a GREAT posistion, don't they? Maybe breaking even is what they should pray for, since some of the more talented people are doing them a service by selling their creative rights to them.

I'm not saying that they steal our work, or publish without permission, like some believe, but they do have a GREAT posistion, don't they? Maybe breaking even is what they should pray for, since some of the more talented people are doing them a service by selling their creative rights to them.

Here's an interesting curveball, which I think ought to maybe even be its own topic of discussion, but is certainly related to this one …

With comic book sales being what they are today (pretty low across the board), is it really the published/printed material that is going to help Platinum at this point? Or is the web comics side of the industry the more lucrative path?

Perhaps the web based part of it is where the money is to be made? See, I'm mainly drawing on the western super hero comics experience of mine, but mainstream super hero comics are really kind of struggling to get over these days. Maybe Platinum sees the web as a way to make better profits than the printed books?

I don't know. It's just a thought I've been having lately. And this thought was actually stirred back to the forefront of my mind at Wizard World Philly … at the Drunk Duck panel.

Hmmmmmm.

I'm not bothered about the fact there are adverts, you see those every where these days but I'm sick to death of those bloody ‘Flirt-o-matic’ adverts. If I wanted to see some women with her skirt up her ass I'd look for a site specifically with that content. Yes the world of warcraft advert does slow the system down due to the graphics but there's nothing offensive in that.

Aereis
Maybe none of you remember, but before that New Year Crash 2 years ago (I think?) we did have a pay membership that removed adds when they browsed (not that it removed it permately on their site for non-subscribed ducklings). Did everyone just forget about this? Or maybe I'm just old -_-' alot of people left after that because the coding was obliterated. I'm sure I'm not the only one who stuck around.

If that's the case is Drunk Duck gonna refund the money that the people paid to remove the adverts from their users? :neenjah:

SteveMyers22
With comic book sales being what they are today (pretty low across the board), is it really the published/printed material that is going to help Platinum at this point? Or is the web comics side of the industry the more lucrative path?

You're absolutely right, Steve. And Platinum Studios said as much the day they announced the acquisition. I told my longtime friend and editor Dan: “When Penny Arcade mocked Platinum Studios for their comments about ‘discovering’ webcomics, they missed the point.” Webcomics are the future because you no longer have to go to stuck-up and stodgy, tradition steeped publishing houses and distributors to get your voice heard. The internet is a revolution… no, an evolutionfor an entire industry. Think about it: no editors, no deadlines. You can go directly from creation to production in a matter of minutes with no middlemen. And in enough time, you can go directly to merchandising! With a free CafePress shop and a logotype of your own creation, you too can become a media mogul! (of Podunk, USA lol)

I have no problems with the ads. I'm not thrilled with the positioning, but oh well. Given what we get here for our lack of money, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to turn this place into Geocities.

sakura5
i don't really have a problem with where the ads are placed but it all depends on the type of advert! The Flirt-o-Matic is horrible! younger kids use this site and that is not something that they need to be exposed to! Would you appreciate your children seeing these kind of images supposing that you have children. To me it makes no difference whether it is cartoon or not it is a site for complete and utter losers that have nothing better to do than try and find somebody over the internet because they are otherwise unable to woo someone.

Sam_Charette
Excuse me, but I take great offense to what you just said. I met both my best friend and my girlfriend (of 4 years, and whom I love very much) over the internet. Though I think that those ads on comics themselves is rather tasteless, the people who look online aren't all losers at all. Granted some are crazy, but that's another story :)

Yes indeed… It's not a good idea to generalise about people that date online.
This discussion is NOT about the content of the adds on DD it primarily concerns the add placement on people's comic pages, please stick to this issue ok?
If you want to talk about dating, and the rights and wrongs of it please restrict that to PQs ^^

So far several compromises have been made:
*The adds have been incorporated into the Tag bar.
*They've been justified to the left hand side instead of centred.
*The text “sponsor” has been added to the area they're displayed in.
*The adds at the bottoms of people pages have been removed.

These are positive results and show that the community is being listened to.

ozoneocean
So far several compromises have been made:
*The adds have been incorporated into the Tag bar.
*They've been justified to the left hand side instead of centred.
*The text “sponsor” has been added to the area they're displayed in.
*The adds at the bottoms of people pages have been removed.

These are positive results and show that the community is being listened to.

Very acceptable. I am pleased, and if I'm happy, then its not even an issue anymore.

The great drunk duck forum drama and flame war of summer 2006 is finally at an end. Now we can look forward to the great invasion of fall 2006 and the horrible hang ups of winter 06. Just kidding of course, this is decent enough guys.

The sponser tag's all I needed. Its calmed my roid rage, so none of you have to worry about being strangled.

subcultured
umm…you get a free site.
with unlimited space for your archive

I'm hardly going to pack my bags for Smackjeeves over an advert banner… I'm not quite that petty. ;) I'd rather bitchmoan about it in the forums and see some sort of change come by than abandon my readers~ I'm infinately grateful that DD is letting me host my work here and gain lots of new friends… and of course I appreciate all the cool changes there have been and that DD has to keep itself afloat somehow - I just think the higher ups should appreciate that we create the content that brings people to this site site and at least give us the freedom to have our navigation buttons right underneath our comic pages~

ozoneocean
So far several compromises have been made:
*The adds have been incorporated into the Tag bar.
*They've been justified to the left hand side instead of centred.
*The text “sponsor” has been added to the area they're displayed in.
*The adds at the bottoms of people pages have been removed.

These are positive results and show that the community is being listened to.

I must admit, the “sponsor” things and they grey surround do make the banner seem less obtusive and at least now it's clear that it's not the author themselves putting it there. It's good to see something's changed~ I've put another set of navigation buttons above my comic too so thet they're more visible… It's not ideal but eh, compromise will have to do.

Well, I'm not going to say that I'm pleased until I see what kind of content is going in that ad space, but I'm glad to see that an attempt at a compromise was made. =p I suppose this is the best we're going to get.

I don't feel that any attempts other than futile words have been spouted to appease the “ad” below the comic situation.

Great, now it says sponsor, but it's huge and still stretches out the design of the template (that, I'm sorry I spent months trying to do, I'm not as talented as some.) So, yeah…I'm horked off.

Yes, hosting is free. I appreciate that.

But, like others before me have pointed out, “we supply the content.” If we banded together and all posted a Duck holdin' that Norma Rae sign for a coulpa' weeks, maybe the preservation of the “creative space” would actually be rethought. (As it stands, it's not…The ad is there, it's goin' there and we should shut our gobs and appreciate all that DD or PS deem to grace us with.)

The word “community” is thrown around a lot. (I do not think it means what you think it means.)

In the realm of education, “community” is a buzzword. My last year teaching, I taught students that had commited felonies. (I'm talkin' cop killers, rapist, arsonist…) Baddddd Seeds. Real “Good Son.” Anyway, I endorsed the philosophy of a “classroom community.” I was the only teacher in the entire building of 123 teachers that never had a behavioral problem, and actually got these F students, that hadn't participated in school for years to turn in every assignment, and they did them well. Trust me, I understand how to foster a sense of; pride, communication, ownership, and risk-free expression. We have a long way to go in that sense of the term. The disrespect I have seen exhibited in the form of “personal attacks” on individuals astounds me; oh my lord, didn't your parental figures teach you better? I don't own a company or anything; I am knowledgable, yet ignorant with “Business Management.” But, I'm intelligent enough to anticipate problems and realize, free or not…That you have a client base, without which, you have no product and happy workers are better workers.

That's what we are people, workers and most of us, do it for absolutly nothing. Doesn't mean we're going to “Thank you, sir.” and ask for “another.” when we feel ignored or taken for granted. We deserve that right and to not voice your concerns, or to feel afraid that you'll be ostrized for voicing your displeasure, that's not a community, in the utopian sense of the word.

At best, we are simply a group of individuals that share the common interest of webcomics and as long as we keep it at that level; exploitation, misunderstanding, and lack of appreciation will abound.

That being said. I still feel that Drunk Duck is the most user friendly of the webcomic hosting availabilities out there. I want to get to know many people in the “community” better, they make me smile and I am enjoying the social aspect of webcomics. But, in the past few days, I've seen a dirty underbelly.

“The Drunk Duck you live in is just a sugar-coated topping. There is another Drunk Duck beneath it. The real Drunk Duck.”

I'm just mad I have to start over with the HTML, she is my arch-nemesis.