Debate and Discussion

Obama: Already America's great president ever?
Hawk at 2:08PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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Admittedly I have pretty high hopes for Obama. Based on his platform it sounds like he's going to take some things in the right direction and hopefully make things a little less bleak than they're looking.

However, I've been noticing some very large expectations for the guy. And the way some people are acting, he's already met those expectations in advance. The media is swarming him and his family, obsessing over what clothes they wear, what school the kids go to, and what dog the family chooses. Seats at the inauguration instantly sold out, with tickets being auctioned at insane prices. Opportunistic marketers and already selling Obama commemorative plates and coins. Most of all, it's the public reactions… Various quotes and soundbites you hear show that some people think things are going to immediately change for the better the minute he's sworn in.

I'm okay with people being excited over the change, but what worries me is that they don't realize that:
- Change takes TIME
- ALL politicians make lofty promises while campaigning
- He's ONE guy in a large system of checks and balances
- Race does not factor into quality of leadership. It didn't when our president was white, and it doesn't now.

What do you guys think? Is too much being expected of Obama right away? Are our expectations unrealistic? Or is he already the greatest American president ever?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Skullbie at 3:02PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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Hasn't been president for even a month now and people are calling him the greatest president ever? Yes the expectations are too high. :) He's a sweet talker and knows how to move a crowd, and with a generation that's grown up on Bushes stumbling logic and Clinton's ‘i did not have sexual relations’ it's easy to think he's brilliant. Is he? Really who knows, he could turn out to really be a muslim terrorist or a deceptacon in disguise.

I wish presidents had to suffer a higher consequence for messing up. Yeah they're disgraced for the next 100 years of history but that doesn't weigh on them in office where they can screw everything up. Obama is now left to mop up the mess Bush made and there's something seriously wrong with that.
If he really does like up to the expectations with the overwhelming odds against him then yes, he really does deserve those commemorative overpriced coin commercials and obama girl droolings. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:46PM
the2ndredbaron at 3:07PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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Am I the only one who doesn't care about Obama? Don't get me wrong I want him to do a good job, I wish all of our Presidents could do a good job. But the Executive Branch is the weakest branch (or should be) in government. By focus is on the congress and seeing what they do. As for all of the focus on Obama I think there is a really simple reason for it. He isn't Bush.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:15PM
SpANG at 3:16PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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Hawk
Is too much being expected of Obama right away?
Yes.
Hawk
Are our expectations unrealistic?
Yes.
Hawk
… is he already the greatest American president ever?
No. But I am already impressed at his “hitting the ground running” as early as November. He's picked a decent cabinet (although I disagree with some choices) and he's made a lot of sense in his press conferences. He's not the “far left” candidate that some people expected him to be, but If you look at his actual policies (not the rumors, not the allegations) he's way more centrist than most people think. And that may be a good thing.

Like other people, I want him to do a lot of things. I'd make my list, but it would only start arguments. I'll just say I am looking for certain things.

BUT, let's be honest here. The reason Obama is getting so much press (before and after the election) is because he is the first black president. His race IS the story, and it's kind of naive to not see that. Not that it's a bad thing, it just would be dumb to like him (or hate him) because of this fact alone.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
skoolmunkee at 5:22PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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SpANG
The reason Obama is getting so much press (before and after the election) is because he is the first black president.
Also he's damn handsome, don't forget that. The fact he's got a young family coming with him is a point of interest too.

As Spang said, I'm impressed he started working right away. He's acting like the president and giving the impression there's no time to waste. I'm glad he's getting rid of Bush's cabinet (especially Kempthorne, who I hate personally). I think with all the right moves he's making it's unlikely he'll be making any major mistakes, and hopefully will repair the US's relations with other countries. He's not going to be able to solve big things overnight, but if he can be a president that people aren't embarrassed to have then that's a huge improvement already.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:41PM
DMH at 6:29PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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This is going to sound mean, but I wouldn't be surprised if he failed.

In all honesty, the media has placed so much pressure on him, it's only a matter of time before that weight breaks him. Add that pressure to the crumbling economy and the rest of it, and I could see the Republicans getting an easy win next election.

Not to say he'll be bad. He might do a good job. But we need to take off some of the pressure, as everyone is saying in this thread. This is one of the biggest steps toward equality we've ever had and if he ends up failing, we might just take an even bigger step back.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:12PM
SpANG at 6:45PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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DMH
This is going to sound mean, but I wouldn't be surprised if he failed.
Failed - what, exactly? It's a pretty low bar to start with.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
the2ndredbaron at 7:38PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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skoolmunkee
SpANG
The reason Obama is getting so much press (before and after the election) is because he is the first black president.
Also he's damn handsome, don't forget that.

And he is a good public speaker.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:15PM
megan_rose at 11:06PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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Well, he's not president yet. Still has a week and a half to go before the ol' inauguration.
I don't need him to be the best president ever. I just need him to be a good president.
And yeah, he is handsome. Speaking as someone who's had to make news graphics with Bush in them for the past few years, it'll be nice to make some graphics with someone who doesn't like like a drowned monkey/rat/terrier. I know that's the most superficial thing to judge a president on, but Bush had plenty of other terrible things going for him that I could legitimately make fun of!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
ozoneocean at 11:09PM, Jan. 11, 2009
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A big part of this “greatest ever” thing doesn't have to do with what people actually archive; it's mainly public perception. On the other side, ou can make a total *uckup of everything you touch, like Bush did, but it still takes ages for people to come around and start calling you what you are… (a few of us did from that start but that was a minority).
Or something like Windows Vista, which is actually a really decent OS, but the public perception of it is a massive failure, the press reflects the majority public sentiment and so that's what it is, regardless of what it really is.
Lastly, take most Apple products- they're press darlings, the iphone is the best phone ever created. Well that's the main sentiment in the popular press, when in reality there are thousands of products out there that do the same job just as well and in many cases much better, Nokia is still the biggest phone maker in the world, and it wasn't even the first touchsceen phone… and yet every touchscreen phone after it was as “iphone clone”

So what I'm saying is that Obama doesn't have to do anything to be the greatest ever, as long as people still love him for whatever reason.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
bravo1102 at 1:44AM, Jan. 12, 2009
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What a president-elect says before his inaugeration doesn't matter except as footnotes in his presidental biography.

What matters is what he accomplishes in office. But that being said Obama will probably be the greatest president so-far this century. ;)

Remember every president is hated and disparaged during his/her tenure in office. It's only after they leave office that they become great or near-great. lol!
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
the2ndredbaron at 1:52PM, Jan. 12, 2009
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bravo1102
Remember every president is hated and disparaged during his/her tenure in office. It's only after they leave office that they become great or near-great. lol!

I would have to disagree with that. Sure there will always be some people who don't like the president but look at people like FDR, the country loved him.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:15PM
kyupol at 9:49PM, Jan. 12, 2009
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For now, I'll hold my criticisms of Barack Obama.

But I got a feeling he might be assassinated like JFK.

And then parade some mentally retarded white-supremacist kid in the media. Then hype up the race issue in the media. Then the riots begin. Then justify martial law. Because afterall, its a domestic terrorist attack perpetrated by some white supremacist militia group (at least thats what the mainstream media would hype it on).

Order out of Chaos. Problem-reaction-solution.

I'm not saying that it will happen. I'm not some psychic with a crystal ball. But it could happen. And I pray that it won't happen.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
bravo1102 at 4:03AM, Jan. 13, 2009
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the2ndredbaron
bravo1102
Remember every president is hated and disparaged during his/her tenure in office. It's only after they leave office that they become great or near-great. lol!

I would have to disagree with that. Sure there will always be some people who don't like the president but look at people like FDR, the country loved him.

What I said is considered a universal “trusim” among presidental historians. Even Washington had his violent detractors who make the modern media (and right-wing talk) look tame.

Guess you never talked to those who called WWII, “Mr. Roosevelt's War”? (and NEVER called him President Roosevelt) You should see what they said about the New Deal. :) Even solid South Democrats were highly critical of FDR. Then there were those who insisted he didn't do enough. They were the people you say loved him.

The comparisons between Obama and FDR or Lincoln are way over done considering he hasn't even had his first 100 days. FDR did not win by a large margin in 1932 and many didn't think he could pull it off. But he did something and he had as many detractors as he had believers.

I'll wait until after Obama's first 100 days.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
the2ndredbaron at 10:43AM, Jan. 13, 2009
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bravo1102
The comparisons between Obama and FDR or Lincoln are way over done considering he hasn't even had his first 100 days.


First of all I am not comparing them. Second, I am not saying that there has been a president that has been universally despised or universally loved I am just saying that when you look back at history there have been many Presidents that were liked more than hated. I was just saying that the words hated and disparaged are a little strong.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:15PM
StaceyMontgomery at 1:19PM, Jan. 13, 2009
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People will have plenty of time to be disenchanted and unhappy with Obama. He will make plenty of mistakes and blunders after all.

But It seems to me that if he starts with a lot of optimism and best wishes heading his way, that's a good thing. I am all for it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Hawk at 2:01PM, Jan. 13, 2009
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I decided to clean up this thread a little bit. We tend to have people wander in who don't understand how the Debate and Discussion section works. ;)

Some very interesting discussion has happened, though. I feel like many of the people who visit here are from a smarter cross-section of the public and realize that nobody's perfect. In a way, I expected you to. But I guess we really should prepare for some mistakes and hope they're a lot less damaging that some of our more recent presidential mistakes.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Senshuu at 4:33PM, Jan. 15, 2009
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the2ndredbaron
Am I the only one who doesn't care about Obama?

Yes; now get out of our country.

We're supposed to care at least a little about the person in charge.

(I really dislike it when someone goes "am I the only one who doesn't care about ?“ You should probably just assume you are, because a group of exasperated folk going ”GOD YES I AM SO SICK OF " isn't really attractive to anyone.)

I'm glad people are being optimistic, even if there is pressure being put on him. We're a big fat country of pessimists, and I don't like that. I like to think the best first, and people tend to think there's something foolish and misinformed about that outlook.

He can inspire, and he won't be lazy. That's a good start. I mean, he's already done stuff. It may have just been my overall politics-blindness, but I don't remember Bush really doing anything in the two months between election and inauguration both times he won. And the second time I was really expecting him to do SOMETHING.

Of course he'll stumble here and there; everyone does, we're human. We might even cause him to ourselves. People like to cling to their high hopes like they're the only things possible, though - like children. I wonder when we grow out of that?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
the2ndredbaron at 10:40PM, Jan. 15, 2009
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Senshuu
the2ndredbaron
Am I the only one who doesn't care about Obama?

Yes; now get out of our country.

We're supposed to care at least a little about the person in charge.

(I really dislike it when someone goes "am I the only one who doesn't care about ?“ You should probably just assume you are, because a group of exasperated folk going ”GOD YES I AM SO SICK OF " isn't really attractive to anyone.)

I'm glad people are being optimistic, even if there is pressure being put on him. We're a big fat country of pessimists, and I don't like that. I like to think the best first, and people tend to think there's something foolish and misinformed about that outlook.


First, yea you got a point I should have worded my post better, I can't really argue with that. My bad on that one.
Second. AS far as being pessimictic about the incoming President I think that blindly disliking him and being against him is a little harsh. But on the other hand if you aren't alittle cautious about him wouldn't you be a little irresponisble?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:15PM
kyupol at 8:33AM, Jan. 29, 2009
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Obama is the dear leader.

Worship. Praise. Respect. Obey. And pledge service to the dear leader

http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/showthread.php?t=45498

Just because Obama is black, he is a good guy:
http://www.thestar.com/article/572035




NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
kyupol at 12:56PM, Jan. 29, 2009
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Anyway, at the same time though I have a feeling that Obama is not the real big boss.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/us/politics/25emanuel.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

Mr. Obama then turned to complain to Mr. Emanuel about his noisy habit.

At which point, Mr. Emanuel held the offending knuckle up to Mr. Obama’s left ear and, like an annoying little brother, snapped off a few special cracks.



Now what do you think will happen if this happened in a classroom? You're the teacher (a position of authority) and one of your students does that? What would you do?
- send him to the principal's office?
- make him stand at the back of the room?
- smack him hard in the face?
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
arteestx at 1:50PM, Jan. 31, 2009
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kyupol
Anyway, at the same time though I have a feeling that Obama is not the real big boss. ….Now what do you think will happen if this happened in a classroom? You're the teacher (a position of authority) and one of your students does that? What would you do?
What I wouldn't do is compare my coworker, even one I have “authority” over, to a misbehaving child in a condescending way, esp if the person is just playfully teasing. What I would do is act like an adult. Sheesh.


Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
Backstaber at 9:25PM, Feb. 5, 2009
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His choices recently have been atrocious. Tax fraud after tax fraud. He's gotta be checking his people better or he is going to destroy his image off the bat at this rate.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:15AM
Orin J Master at 7:43PM, Feb. 8, 2009
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eh, they haven't been that bad. he's been competent so far, and after eight years of ass-backwards screwups, and borderline delusions dictating government policy, competent is gonna seem like walking on water.

we'll see in a year if he's really all that great, but my money is on him just doing well enough to undo most ot the previous mistakes.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
the2ndredbaron at 10:22PM, Feb. 8, 2009
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tax fraud is competent?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:16PM
Backstaber at 10:36PM, Feb. 8, 2009
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Nope, especially when if any of us normal citizens would be put into federal prison for a few years if we did anything remotely like what they did.

And he is losing ground on the “Stimulus” package, which is turning more into a government stimulus if anything. Ugh.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:15AM
bravo1102 at 7:24AM, Feb. 9, 2009
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It's only been three weeks. How much blame should various sources get for the “worst imminent disaster EVER!” “DO it yesterday!” drumbeating?

The best thing the Congress could do would be to let the Stimulous package sit over the President's Day break and let everyone read it. The billions of dollars won't all be spent the day after the President signs the bill. It's to be spent over the course of several years.

Gotta hate the 24 hour cable news cycle. ;) Why not do stories in depth? Stop with the headlines and give me the story! It's almost like Graphics for advertising where you just put in the headline and fake “greek” for the rest of the text (until preping the final copy for the printer.) Except Cable news never has the final copy for the printer and it's always the half done comp headline with fake text.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
SpANG at 3:08PM, Feb. 10, 2009
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I love the conservative solution to the current economic crisis:

“Do nothing.”
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Hawk at 4:06PM, Feb. 10, 2009
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As I recall, the republicans were trying to push the stimulus toward housing, with tax breaks given to home-buyers and locked-in interest rates.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
kyupol at 7:10PM, Feb. 11, 2009
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A poem I saw about Barack Obama.

An actor walks upon the floodlit stage of life
wearing a mask of an angel beneath a demon's gown.
Pretence smiles upon the crowded hall of life
holding out hope as bright as it is false.
Son of a woman in whose veins flows the blood
of ancient Ireland and dark Africa's plains.
You are Obama, nick-named the standing king
You are Barack, oh, son born to deceive
The suffering hoards of Africa look up to you,
See a black saviour where nought but a Judas strides.
An entrapper of nations, bringer of dismal war
Behind the robes and the nylon wings of hope
Oh, may those who look upon you, see you as you are.
May those who hope in you behold you as you be
A prince deceitful to bring down Africa's shrines
A siren who leads Africa's ships onto rocks of obliteration.
Your rule my lord will not be one of peace
Your reign my king will not be one of smiles
Even as we speak in caves both dark and dank
Enraged fanatics plot your dark demise
They will put around your head a bloodwet martyr's crown.
Oh black Kennedy following the one before
May God forgive thee and thy fiery spouse
As you walk in silence from the stage of life
Barack Obama, blessed son, Oh standing king.

-Credo Mutwa-


Now lets see if this Zulu Shaman is right. Only time will tell…
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM

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