Debate and Discussion

Offensive content guidelines
marine at 12:12PM, May 14, 2007
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I think the guidelines around here stink. Not that they're there, its that they are loosely defined. An administrator first told me my comic was too offensive, I agreed and told them to go ahead and switch it to an A rating, thinking “okay, well people can still read it if they just log out.” After finding out that A rated comics are blocked completely from outside users, I sent an email out saying put it down to an M that I would take down the page that contained in the administrators words “graphic sexual situations”. The sexual situations being poorly drawn cartoon penises and implied anal sex. Also there was a scene where a large yellow object goes into the face (which looks like a buttocks) of another character, pretty much being oral/anal sex at the same time, thusly funny. Yesterday, I thought as productively as ever and changed a great deal of material in penis to be less-offensive Teen rating friendly. I recieved an e-mail today, telling me that certain pages are M rating worthy, but even the worst of those pages would fly in a Pg-13 movie.

I strongly feel platinum or Drunk Duck needs to establish firmer more solid guidelines as to what EXACTLY constitutes graphic sexual situations, offensive profanity (a full list), violence (a distuish between cartoon hijinks and graphic mutilation), sexual innuendo, racial humour, religious humour, parody/satire fair use. If anybody can think of anything else that would need to be regulated, please add it to my list.

I hate to be a prude, because that ain't me by far. I use profanity in excess and have a type of humor that lives in offensiveland. I want my comic to be in such a state that generally everyone (Teen) could read it and enjoy it without having a hammer cracked down on me everytime I do anything. I've been at the forefront of a lot of DD changes before (eithar actively or as a direct result of my doings) and I would like to spearhead this topic. Its very important that these rules be in place, certain things kids don't need to see. But if you're around 13-14, stuff like Mad Max (full on graphic violence, sexual innuendos, general awesomeness) or American Pie (strong graphic sexual humour throughout, excessive profanity, scenes of bare breasts) is going to be your favorite thing in the world. But movies have a ratings board they go before that has a firm set of guidelines as to what constitutes what type of rating. So gentlemen and ladies, what're we going to do to fix this problem?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
SpANG at 12:43PM, May 14, 2007
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We don't need a full list.

T+:
Content is suitable for teens or older. Mild violence, slightly mature themes. No obscenities, graphic violence, sex, or nudity.

Detailed LIST found here

Anything more than that is M.

A cartoon of a man with a penis and testicles on his head is NOT T+.
A cartoon of a character getting an abortion with some sort of power tool is NOT T+

So there is no problem. I really think you get this, you aren't dumb. You are probably just doing this to get attention, as usual.

Oh, and Mad Max AND American Pie were both rated R (R - Restricted - Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian 21 years or older with photo I.D. These films contain strong adult language, strong sexuality, nudity, strong violence, and/or gore, and drug use.)- Yeah, so those are really bad examples.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
marine at 12:54PM, May 14, 2007
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Alright, what about Fast & The Furios and XXX, those films had Vin Diesel and were rating PG-13.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
SpANG at 1:00PM, May 14, 2007
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2 more bad examples. There wasn't any excessive sex, violence, gore, or drug use with those.

Unless you mean XXX as in adult. In that case they are rated XXX.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
marine at 1:01PM, May 14, 2007
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SpANG
2 more bad examples. There wasn't any excessive sex, violence, gore, or drug use with those.

You win… this round.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
SpANG at 1:04PM, May 14, 2007
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whatever
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
marine at 1:06PM, May 14, 2007
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SpANG
whatever

Just kidding, you don't win. Guidelines need better outlined.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
SpANG at 1:44PM, May 14, 2007
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SpANG
whatever
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
reidavidson at 2:31PM, May 14, 2007
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What about implied nudity? Where all sexual organs are covered up and the nudity is not in a sexual nature?

I have a few pages in mine where one of the characters is nude but it's in a canon sense, not sexual at all, and I never show his junk. However, my comic is cute and fluffy and I feel like the T+ rating is a bit extreme for it already.

So I suppose my genuine question is, can you really say “no nudity” when it's in a tasteful way that isn't teaching kids about the birds and the bees?

And Marine: I've read parts of Penis. I think an A rating is warranted. :/


last edited on July 14, 2011 3:04PM
skoolmunkee at 2:36PM, May 14, 2007
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I don't think we'll ever make a list simply because the realm of vulgarity and sexuality are far beyond our poor imaginations and we'll surely miss some. :) But then because we have a list, if people don't see things on the list they will think it is okay.

Basically we don't want to open the window for nit-pickers to come in. T_T

“But the list doesn't SAY that an armadillo raping the open heart surgery wound of former President Bill Clinton with a chocolate covered dildo carved by a loinclothed fisherman out of an Ikea coffee table leg is against the rules!”

(That would probably be “Adult” btw.)
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:40PM
skoolmunkee at 2:40PM, May 14, 2007
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reidavidson
What about implied nudity? Where all sexual organs are covered up and the nudity is not in a sexual nature?

I have a few pages in mine where one of the characters is nude but it's in a canon sense, not sexual at all, and I never show his junk.

Sounds like Teen to me. When T says “no nudity” it means no male or female nether bits and no nipples, essentially. :) Think of it as a PG 13 movie. Butts and hidden bits (as long as they're tasteful - no ultra scanty cladding or giant boners in the pants) are ok.

http://www.drunkduck.com/ratings.php
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:40PM
reidavidson at 3:04PM, May 14, 2007
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Okay good I'm at the right rating. ^_^ Thanks, that's all I needed to know.


last edited on July 14, 2011 3:04PM
maritalbliss at 6:57PM, May 14, 2007
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I see everyone's point of view on this one. Our comic is currently T (Although, we think it is okay for everyone–we were so afraid of offending, that we figured better safe than sorry–Plus, since our comic is primarily “married humor” teens ain't married anyhows, so they are not our primary audience.) But, I get what you mean. “Penis” is kinda' Beevis and the “Adult Swim” crowd is ‘kinda your audience and even they have parental warnings (as parents are stupid and although they are to blame for their children’s internet viewing habits, far be it from them to accept responsibility.) I can't blame Drunk Duck, (as it is free and beggers in gift-horses mouths and all that) they are just coverin' their own booties. Slippery slope, babies.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
Will at 10:32PM, May 14, 2007
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wow… marine actually wrote all that?

youve gotta keep in mind, comics and games are going to have a looser ratings system than movies, one reason for this is that they appeal a much smaller audience, but what consitutes bad things verys greatly from person to person… ive heard the word shit in a pg movie and loads of people said they should up the rating…

the other thing you have to take in mind is that comics and movies have a completely differant ratings system, t+ and E and A, as opposed to pg etc. because of this you cant say that anything that doesnt fly in a pg movie cant be put in a t+ comic…

youre actually right, the content guidelines of American games and comics are very ill-conceived, you have to take it upon yourself to say where your comic falls, if you believe that a comic falls in t+, put it in t+, and if anyone objects you can put up your side of the argument, and theyll probably be leniant.
i could go on all day with this, but i wont cuz i have a life and i dont wish to insult anyone with my constant spelling and grammar mistakes

Will
putting your own quote into your sig is the post pretentious and pathetic thing anyone could ever do.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:49PM
carrollhach at 6:04AM, May 15, 2007
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Drunk Duck, while having an international audience and many international contributors, is an American site. Japanese salarymen will read lewd and graphic manga depicting schoolgirls getting raped and sodomized… read these comics on the subway without shame or contrition. In the US, a more puritan ethic is in play, and that needs to be respected.

don't think it is at all unclear why Penis is rated A. Marine utilizes shock as his principal humor tool… pretty obvious why the strip is restricted. I wouldn't want my 12-year-old daughter to read Penis… it would offend her.

We make a decision with our content. Clench and Cheese is an M strip… it frequently uses profanity, drug use and violence to serve the story (I mean, the guys are punk rockers). I don't expect it to be rated T or E. If I wanted that, I'd do another sort of strip.

I understand Marine being concerned about his strip being “censored,” but it seems ridiculous to argue that this is because the ratings system is unclear or poorly-defined. Penis is rated A because it contains graphic sexual references and profane language. Marine can always do another type of strip if he wants a broader audience.
Josh Carrollhach
For profile inormation, other comics and general blog stuff, please check out
http://www.drunkduck.com/Clench_and_Cheese/
The Clench and Cheese Blog
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:36AM
SpANG at 6:26AM, May 15, 2007
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carrollhach
Drunk Duck, while having an international audience and many international contributors, is an American site. Japanese salarymen will read lewd and graphic manga depicting schoolgirls getting raped and sodomized… read these comics on the subway without shame or contrition. In the US, a more puritan ethic is in play, and that needs to be respected.

don't think it is at all unclear why Penis is rated A. Marine utilizes shock as his principal humor tool… pretty obvious why the strip is restricted. I wouldn't want my 12-year-old daughter to read Penis… it would offend her.

We make a decision with our content. Clench and Cheese is an M strip… it frequently uses profanity, drug use and violence to serve the story (I mean, the guys are punk rockers). I don't expect it to be rated T or E. If I wanted that, I'd do another sort of strip.

I understand Marine being concerned about his strip being “censored,” but it seems ridiculous to argue that this is because the ratings system is unclear or poorly-defined. Penis is rated A because it contains graphic sexual references and profane language. Marine can always do another type of strip if he wants a broader audience.
Well said. Except marine has toned it down to an “M” rating recently. Not that your 12-year-old daughter should read it now. ;)

I think it should probably be noted that marine just does this stuff to cause reaction. He knows perfectly well WHY his comic is rated like it is. This thread was just made so he could all laugh at those who would actually stir up a debate for something that is not broken to begin with. :cry:
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
Aurora Moon at 8:38AM, May 15, 2007
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well, I can kinda see where he's going with this, even though complaining about his comic is kinda silly.

You see.. I believe that the comic artists should be able to make thier own ratings, you know? like I've had people people tell me that they got scared off by the M+ rating for two of my comics…. =(

but I had to put it under M even though I would preffer for it to be correctly labelled as:
16+ and up. alteratively, For mature people less likely to be offended.

You see, my comic Magical Mania kinda falls right between “T” and “M”.
It's got nudity.. (nipples, the whole works).. but there's no sex. I try to make the realstic nudity be tasteful as possible. my comic isn't showing people how to have sex and stuff. In fact in my comic the whole nudity bit isn't made an big deal out of. it's just… there in some of the panels but not all the time. In fact you could say it's just simply put in the “background”, so to speak, so that it's not the focal point.

Of course I could had just done that whole Barbie doll thing where there's no nipples and stuff, and it could had been “T” then.
But to be honest…. I don't like that type of nudity. It werids me out and plus sometimes it throws me off when I draw on the clothes last…making the person end up looking not so portional.

Then there's the humor/dioglue. Sometimes it's just harmless teenage humor (which is to be expected, snice most of my characters are seniors in high school). but then there's some mature topics, which my main characters are expected to handle and cope with the more they “grow up”. And it's bound to offend some people out there, who appeartly believes that Teenagers that has only one more year to go before they graduate high school don't talk about death, sex, etc… oh, and they're supposed not to cuss nethier! *rolls eyes*

I mean, let's be real here… we all cussed, espeically as an teenager. and we certainly did talk about sex and other graphic stuff with our friends. At least I did anyway. And I don't know about you, but realstic nudity does not automically make it porn. Espeically not when the characters are not decipted in an sexual way, and just is doing everyday stuff, like taking an bath… or floating around in a dream talking to strange women who tells you to save the world.

I HATED how they would keep on complaing to me about this and that. “OMG!!!! your comic has porn because exposed nipples=porn!!”
“Your comic has too much endless cussing!!” (nope, it doesn't. it's like maybe there's one or two swear words in one page, and then the five pages afterwards wouldn't have any swear words, unless it was an battle scene.

I pulled that comic out of the T rating and into the M rating… just to stop all those stupid people from complaining.

But… I still wish that it could had remained in T+ rating. Maybe there needs to be more additional ratings? maybe even the feature to combine some of the ratings together…
like an M/T rating–“Is for mature teenagers and up. But go at your own risk, may offend.”

I just feel that the whole “M” thing is making some people out there have the wrong idea about my comic, and I don't like that.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
SpANG at 9:54AM, May 15, 2007
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But, an M comic is just restricted to kids under 13 (and unlogged people). I think that's pretty fair, actually. A is actually restricted to users below 18. You are probably right to have your comic in M. Excessive cursing and nudity deem a “Mature” rating.

The ratings are mean to comply with COPPA (Children's Online Privacy Protection Act) guidelines. According to those rules, we must try to restrict people of a certain age from seeing certain things.

That said, though, DD gives creators tremendous leeway. We don't like to keep anybody from saying or writing anything. But, some people take advantage, and we need to draw a line.

Edit/// again, here is the current breakdown, guys.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
marine at 10:10AM, May 15, 2007
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SpANG
But, an M comic is just restricted to kids under 13 (and unlogged people). I think that's pretty fair, actually. A is actually restricted to users below 18. You are probably right to have your comic in M. Excessive cursing and nudity deem a “Mature” rating.

The ratings are mean to comply with COPPA (Children's Online Privacy Protection Act) guidelines. According to those rules, we must try to restrict people of a certain age from seeing certain things.

That said, though, DD gives creators tremendous leeway. We don't like to keep anybody from saying or writing anything. But, some people take advantage, and we need to draw a line.

Edit/// again, here is the current breakdown, guys.

Thats not good enough. We should have people register with their real names, idtenfication numbers, and some type of screening process should go into effect to keep out “less desireables”.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
carrollhach at 10:42AM, May 15, 2007
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Marine
Black Guys weakneses:
fried chicken
watermelon
white women with blonde hair
prison
bullets
the police
love for his grandmama

This is in the last author's note in Penis. Very original. And hilarious.
Josh Carrollhach
For profile inormation, other comics and general blog stuff, please check out
http://www.drunkduck.com/Clench_and_Cheese/
The Clench and Cheese Blog
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:36AM
Aurora Moon at 11:04AM, May 15, 2007
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SpANG
But, an M comic is just restricted to kids under 13 (and unlogged people). I think that's pretty fair, actually. A is actually restricted to users below 18. You are probably right to have your comic in M. Excessive cursing and nudity deem a “Mature” rating.

Sorry, but that's not how a lot of people see it. To a lot of people, or at least the ones I've ran into on the net anyway, the whole “M” rating basically means the same thing as the “A” rating far as “offensive content” goes. To them, the whole “M” rating just says to them: “This is an comic that may not actually have earned the ”A“ rating, but still is softcore porn with an storyline by your statands! So STAY AWAY because all that stuff is super nasty!!”

that was what I mean by a lot of people that talked to me and when I showed them my profile so that they could access my comics, they go: “M?? uh..oh…I don't think I should read those comics.”

It might be just an misconpection, but it's an pretty damn common one at that. =\

that's one of the reasons why I wish we had more clear-cut ratings that clearly stated age groups, you know?
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
SpANG at 12:25PM, May 15, 2007
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Aurora Moon
Sorry, but that's not how a lot of people see it. To a lot of people, or at least the ones I've ran into on the net anyway, the whole “M” rating basically means the same thing as the “A” rating far as “offensive content” goes. To them, the whole “M” rating just says to them: “This is an comic that may not actually have earned the ”A“ rating, but still is softcore porn with an storyline by your statands! So STAY AWAY because all that stuff is super nasty!!”

that was what I mean by a lot of people that talked to me and when I showed them my profile so that they could access my comics, they go: “M?? uh..oh…I don't think I should read those comics.”

It might be just an misconpection, but it's an pretty damn common one at that. =\

that's one of the reasons why I wish we had more clear-cut ratings that clearly stated age groups, you know?
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think a whole new entry would do the trick either. The people you are describing haven't actually read the ratings page, right? They are just making assumptions.
The ratings page do clearly define what the age limits are. Maybe easier acess to the ratings page would make the difference?
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
marine at 12:57PM, May 15, 2007
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SpANG
Aurora Moon
Sorry, but that's not how a lot of people see it. To a lot of people, or at least the ones I've ran into on the net anyway, the whole “M” rating basically means the same thing as the “A” rating far as “offensive content” goes. To them, the whole “M” rating just says to them: “This is an comic that may not actually have earned the ”A“ rating, but still is softcore porn with an storyline by your statands! So STAY AWAY because all that stuff is super nasty!!”

that was what I mean by a lot of people that talked to me and when I showed them my profile so that they could access my comics, they go: “M?? uh..oh…I don't think I should read those comics.”

It might be just an misconpection, but it's an pretty damn common one at that. =\

that's one of the reasons why I wish we had more clear-cut ratings that clearly stated age groups, you know?
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think a whole new entry would do the trick either. The people you are describing haven't actually read the ratings page, right? They are just making assumptions.
The ratings page do clearly define what the age limits are. Maybe easier acess to the ratings page would make the difference?

No. It needs clearer outlined as to what offensive content is.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
Cthulhu at 1:49PM, May 15, 2007
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marine
No. It needs clearer outlined as to what offensive content is.

Cussing, bigotry, blasphomy, nudity, offensive gestures, and violence.

Anything I left out?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:55AM
Bekefel at 1:57PM, May 15, 2007
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I don't care what half of you fools are saying, I am 16 and I just want to read Penis without randomly being disallowed because he is being forced to make it adult. I think I am old enough to handle the sort of thing Penis comes out with, so maybe DD should get a 15 certificate or something. Because 13 and 18 is a rather large age gap between mature and adult.

Also Penis is the best comic on DD, no question.
Please, please, you give me too little credit.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:16AM
Aurora Moon at 2:10PM, May 15, 2007
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SpANG
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think a whole new entry would do the trick either. The people you are describing haven't actually read the ratings page, right? They are just making assumptions.
The ratings page do clearly define what the age limits are. Maybe easier acess to the ratings page would make the difference?

Yeah, there proably needs to be easier access to the rating page. Make it really obivous too, so that people can't miss it.

although, there's proably gonna be people who wouldn't read it snice they'd proably assume that you're going by movie stantards which they're familar with…
And just so you know the whole “M” rating when it comes to movies is basically the same as “Adult” or even “XXX”. Which is why that “M” rating has that bad repuation about it.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
skoolmunkee at 3:11PM, May 15, 2007
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Bekefel
I don't care what half of you fools are saying, I am 16 and I just want to read Penis without randomly being disallowed because he is being forced to make it adult. I think I am old enough to handle the sort of thing Penis comes out with

DD isn't able to make maturity decisions for each user, so instead it has content guidelines which it needs to enforce with consistency. :) They're quite easy to get around so the people who are determined to do so won't have much trouble. There's actual legal reasons why DD's ratings are what they are however, so we won't be able to change them or make up our own.

I wouldn't mind some kind of elaboration device though, like you see on video games, etc:

language- some, mild
sex/nudity- infrequent, mild
violence- infrequent, once moderate
other- some mild peril

That is the information for Big Fish, a rather wonderful “PG” movie. :)
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:40PM
Aurora Moon at 5:53PM, May 15, 2007
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skoolmunkee
Bekefel
I don't care what half of you fools are saying, I am 16 and I just want to read Penis without randomly being disallowed because he is being forced to make it adult. I think I am old enough to handle the sort of thing Penis comes out with

DD isn't able to make maturity decisions for each user, so instead it has content guidelines which it needs to enforce with consistency. :) They're quite easy to get around so the people who are determined to do so won't have much trouble. There's actual legal reasons why DD's ratings are what they are however, so we won't be able to change them or make up our own.

I wouldn't mind some kind of elaboration device though, like you see on video games, etc:

language- some, mild
sex/nudity- infrequent, mild
violence- infrequent, once moderate
other- some mild peril

That is the information for Big Fish, a rather wonderful “PG” movie. :)

Now that I could go for. I wouldn't mind then about me feeling like I had to put it in “M” even though that would scare away people who might otherwise enjoy my comics. After all, they'd see the extra stuff to see what my comic was about if they were still leery about the whole “M” rating which they're so used to meaning “very adult content” from the movies. if they saw the elaboration device for my comics saying that my comics wasn't as bad as they were imagining it to be what with the M rating…then I might just get more readers that way. :)
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
maritalbliss at 11:49PM, May 17, 2007
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marine
SpANG
Aurora Moon
Sorry, but that's not how a lot of people see it. To a lot of people, or at least the ones I've ran into on the net anyway, the whole “M” rating basically means the same thing as the “A” rating far as “offensive content” goes. To them, the whole “M” rating just says to them: “This is an comic that may not actually have earned the ”A“ rating, but still is softcore porn with an storyline by your statands! So STAY AWAY because all that stuff is super nasty!!”

that was what I mean by a lot of people that talked to me and when I showed them my profile so that they could access my comics, they go: “M?? uh..oh…I don't think I should read those comics.”

It might be just an misconpection, but it's an pretty damn common one at that. =\

that's one of the reasons why I wish we had more clear-cut ratings that clearly stated age groups, you know?
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think a whole new entry would do the trick either. The people you are describing haven't actually read the ratings page, right? They are just making assumptions.
The ratings page do clearly define what the age limits are. Maybe easier acess to the ratings page would make the difference?

No. It needs clearer outlined as to what offensive content is.

Ahhh, and there in lies the rub my friend…What is offensive to some, is not offensive to all and unfortunately, adults who should have absolute freedom of speech and expression on the internet of all places are not allowed to do so, because:
1. Some parents are too lazy to watch and be involved with their children…So, there has to be guidelines.
2. People are such whinerbabies that if they are offended they must let everyone they know instead of bein' adult, realizin' they are not the intended audience and should go read Ziggy and leave us horrible blasphemous hedonistic Sex-Bombs to our demises.
But, such is the world we live in. Lord help them if Barter Town ever becomes more reality than Sci-fi…Oh, well…I can drive a horse and carriage, I'll be fine.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
Aurora Moon at 9:57AM, May 18, 2007
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maritalbliss
Ahhh, and there in lies the rub my friend…What is offensive to some, is not offensive to all and unfortunately, adults who should have absolute freedom of speech and expression on the internet of all places are not allowed to do so, because:
1. Some parents are too lazy to watch and be involved with their children…So, there has to be guidelines.
2. People are such whinerbabies that if they are offended they must let everyone they know instead of bein' adult, realizin' they are not the intended audience and should go read Ziggy and leave us horrible blasphemous hedonistic Sex-Bombs to our demises.
But, such is the world we live in. Lord help them if Barter Town ever becomes more reality than Sci-fi…Oh, well…I can drive a horse and carriage, I'll be fine.

Too true. (sighs)
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM

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