Debate and Discussion

Offensive content guidelines
Atom Apple at 11:23AM, May 19, 2007
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People finding offense in pretty much anything makes me laugh. If anyone complained about one of my pages, I'd probably make it a recurring gag until it gets old.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Aurora Moon at 11:54AM, May 19, 2007
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Atom Apple
People finding offense in pretty much anything makes me laugh. If anyone complained about one of my pages, I'd probably make it a recurring gag until it gets old.

OMG!!!! Ur comic, 1337_M4N_UB3R_H3R0, IS SOOOOOOO offensive to me1111!!!!!!! Don't you realize that Leetspeak is the langune created by SATAN?!
And if that wasn't enough, the dude in your latest page is holding an giant gun laser thingy!!! So therefore that means to me that you totally promote and ensosore violence in reality!!!!!!!111111111!!!!!
like, omgosh, I don't care if your SUPER OFFENSIVE comic wasn't intended for people like me, I'm Gonna keep on telling you how impure and EVIL your pages are until I get my way! And by me getting my way, I mean you changing the content!!!!!!1111!!!!111111!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!!!


LOL.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Atom Apple at 12:13PM, May 19, 2007
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I R SAD NOW! I R REMOVE THE COMIC PLZ DONT SUE ME LOLOLOLOL

Anyway, if my parents didn't know my URL my comic would be so offensive that Platinum would probably have to make a new rating for me. And I propose T+ being changed to 13 and up instead of M because quite honestly it makes much more sense. Mature is normally perceived as 18 or older (not porn) and Adult as 18 or older (yes porn). That's all I have to say about that.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Hawk at 1:01PM, May 19, 2007
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Atom Apple
People finding offense in pretty much anything makes me laugh. If anyone complained about one of my pages, I'd probably make it a recurring gag until it gets old.

You know what though? People grow up in different circumstances and therefore find different things offensive. It's not up to us to judge people on their standards, because our standards are not inherently better than theirs.

I'm not not justifying people whining in your comments section. I'm just saying that we're not better than people who find things offensive, and there's no reason we're more right than they are.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Atom Apple at 1:16PM, May 19, 2007
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I'm not saying that either, I'm just saying I hate the entire idea of “standards.” Quite frankly, nothing offends me anymore because I've learned to deal with it. All I'm saying is if we could all do that it would get rid of many problems in the world. It may make new ones, but there will always be problems. You just gotta' deal with it and try your best to change them.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
usedbooks at 1:39PM, May 19, 2007
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Atom Apple
And I propose T+ being changed to 13 and up

Wait…

T+ isn't 13 and up? Um… Did I miss something? T means “teen” right? Are teens under 13 these days?

Actually, I had my own personal debate with myself how to rate my comic. I read the content guidelines and still didn't know what constituted “graphic violence.” I thought my comic was rather violent, but then I did some looking around to compare and decided no, it is not what would be considered “graphic” relatively speaking… I figured T+ = PG-13, and that's about where my comic is.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:36PM
Atom Apple at 1:43PM, May 19, 2007
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Nope, DD considers T+ the exact same thing as E. In fact, I'm not even sure why they made it.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Aurora Moon at 11:30PM, May 19, 2007
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Hawk
You know what though? People grow up in different circumstances and therefore find different things offensive. It's not up to us to judge people on their standards, because our standards are not inherently better than theirs.

I'm not not justifying people whining in your comments section. I'm just saying that we're not better than people who find things offensive, and there's no reason we're more right than they are.

That's true, but at times I wish the whinerbabies would see it that way too. Like I don't even try to be offensive with my comics, dont see it as offensive… but there's the few people who acted like it was just one swearing/sex orgy-fest.

You know, they do have an gerenal rule on the internet which I find to apply to this situation: “If you don't like it, if you find it so offensive… you don't have to stick around and read/view that shit!”
Yet those people don't seem to realize that.. so they actually stick around for a little bit.

Nope, DD considers T+ the exact same thing as E. In fact, I'm not even sure why they made it.

Yeah. I think that's proably why they need to change some things or at least add something where we're allowed to clarfiy on what our comic contains.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
SpANG at 3:59PM, May 20, 2007
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Atom Apple
Nope, DD considers T+ the exact same thing as E. In fact, I'm not even sure why they made it.
Now wait a minute. The descriptions ARE different, and the ratings warn someone to that fact. Did you read the descriptions? Now if you are proposing that we RESTRICT T+ comics to 13 and above, like we do the M comics, I think that would be a mistake. Because if you do that, the UN-LOGGED users could not see it as well.

Even though T+ comics are a little racier than E comics, it doesn't mean they wouldn't be acceptable to the general comic reading audience.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
Atom Apple at 4:05PM, May 20, 2007
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What I actually think is that ratings should be a guideline and not a source of restriction.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Aurora Moon at 5:33PM, May 20, 2007
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Atom Apple
What I actually think is that ratings should be a guideline and not a source of restriction.

Agreed. I mean honestly, just put up an parental/Reader warning and leave it at that. nobody is legally responisble to restrict certain content if they put up suffiect warning, unless it's porn.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Atom Apple at 5:37PM, May 20, 2007
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That's actually not a bad idea. Anything rated A can have a mandatory disclaimer. We could even make a custom one.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
SpANG at 5:46PM, May 20, 2007
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That would not comply with COPPA guidelines from what I understand.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
Atom Apple at 6:16PM, May 20, 2007
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COPPA is only for people under 13 anyway.

EDIT: I think you're thinking of COPA.

EDIT: EDIT: All COPA asks is that porn is blocked, that's not to much to ask. However, Penis does not have porn. Just natural anatomy.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Aurora Moon at 6:50PM, May 20, 2007
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Atom Apple
COPPA is only for people under 13 anyway.

EDIT: I think you're thinking of COPA.

EDIT: EDIT: All COPA asks is that porn is blocked, that's not to much to ask. However, Penis does not have porn. Just natural anatomy.

yep. just because an character is showing nipples or whatever does not mean it is porn.

The defination of porn is:
intented to arouse, exicte people sexually… or have the character in explict, graphic sexual postures.

So say an image of the character showering, or just in the process of putting on clothes… is not porn, no matter how much is showing.

Nudity does not automically mean porn. So I don't think an M rated comic needs to be restricted, just have an warning on it.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
wyldflowa at 3:48AM, May 21, 2007
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I know of at least one person who was put off by the “M” rating on my comic… I don't know how many more there may of been. My stuff really falls at the bottom of the “M” bracket - all I've got that constitues it being there is a few uses of the “f-word” so far - but I've put it in “M” just to be safe though I might take it down to “T+” now… I didn't know “M” comics were restricted. O_O You mean, if someone just browses in they won't be able to see it or will be prompted to join DD? As much as I like this community I might move my stuff elsewhere if new readers are vetted like that upon arrival…

Just a simple pop-up the first time someone visits the site explaining to them that the comic may have mature themes not considered suitable for under thirteens, giving the visitor the option of continuing or going elsewhere, should be enough. Or at least make the ratings page REALLY visable. I think reading this thread is the first time I've actually seen it linked from anywhere - it's not even linked on the actual page you set the rating on or on the “browse” pages! D:

The word “mature” has too many connotations to porn IMHO. If it was renamed “13+” or “OT” (older teens) or something then people wouldn't make that assumption. :/


(BTW, I have no qualms with the actual rating brackets themselves - I think they're spot on. It's just the names of the ratings and the way their viewing appears to be controlled AND that the rating guidelines aren't rammed in people's faces that annoys me.)
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:52PM
SpANG at 6:46AM, May 21, 2007
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Aurora Moon
Atom Apple
COPPA is only for people under 13 anyway.

EDIT: I think you're thinking of COPA.

EDIT: EDIT: All COPA asks is that porn is blocked, that's not to much to ask. However, Penis does not have porn. Just natural anatomy.

yep. just because an character is showing nipples or whatever does not mean it is porn.
Yeah, I was confusing COPPA with COPA.
Aurora Moon
Nudity does not automically mean porn. So I don't think an M rated comic needs to be restricted, just have an warning on it.
Well, then unfortunately, we disagree. Because I wouldn't want my 10-year-old niece to see marine's comic if there was a way to restrict her from viewing it. Sure, there are ‘milder’ comics in the M category, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Like other people have also said, I don't think marine's comic constitutes an A rating, but it is definetly an M.

maritalbliss
Ahhh, and there in lies the rub my friend…What is offensive to some, is not offensive to all and unfortunately, adults who should have absolute freedom of speech and expression on the internet of all places are not allowed to do so, because:
1. Some parents are too lazy to watch and be involved with their children…So, there has to be guidelines.
I'm not a parent, but I have to say this is a pretty tired argument. The fact that the internet has opened up THE ENTIRE WORLD to a child is probably a good reason to put restrictions on certain things. Things are different than when you or I were children. We simply DID NOT have access to the type of things that a kid does at the press of a button.

What if you are a single parent working a double shift, and your 5th grade daughter needs to do a school project that requires internet access? Are you lazy then? You can't SMOTHER a child, either. Did you like it when you were a kid? Did you rebel anyways? I know I did, and I had great parents.

Besides, even if you “lock down surfing” at home, the kid would probably just look for another way to access the ‘net. It’s certainly easy enough.

The fact that there could be SOMETHING to help this person out is kind of nice, IMO.

I'm not saying there AREN'T lazy parents out there. Far from it, actually. But such a sweeping statement is a little uninformed, IMO.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
marine at 8:29AM, May 21, 2007
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Atom Apple
COPPA is only for people under 13 anyway.

EDIT: I think you're thinking of COPA.

EDIT: EDIT: All COPA asks is that porn is blocked, that's not to much to ask. However, Penis does not have porn. Just natural anatomy.

Well the major factor in my M rating is a character with a fake penis on his face, right between his eyes. In fact, I'd say it impairs his vision, but thats not the subject at hand. What is at hand, is that I tried to figure out what made him so offensive. I asked if I took off some of the hair on the balls and smoothed it out, that maybe would lower my rating to T (pending a few other changes too), but I was told that, and I quote:

No.

I feel my comic is offensive shock humor, with wierd situations and characters. So its probably apropriate with the M rating, but its nowhere near an A rating yet. I'd say wait til you see what happens next month. After all, this latest batch of penis was online online two weeks before I got into trouble.

I'm going to re-up the ones that I edited, since theres no point in having an M rating and not using the copious profanities. One page (the one named 0007) will not be re-uploaded in its original content. It was far too offensive, and I went too far with it. But since you're all adults, here is the original page numbered 0007. Its very offensive, I warn you. Truely this is why Jerry Fallwell has died, because of my comics on the internet that have cartoon penises and spider-man. Whats even more funny is the edited down version. I had to take awhile to figure out what to do to “fix” that page and make it better. I had to remove the final panel, often the best panel in my comics.

So the drama continues. And remember, warning, that original version of penis numbered 0007, is offensive.


last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
Kohdok at 9:56AM, May 21, 2007
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I think I have a simple explanation:

The reason most people are turned off by “M” rated comics is because of the ESRB “M” rating for video games. “M” Rated video games are considered appropriate for people 17 and up, usually due to graphic violence. This is what I thought when I first saw the “M” rating listed on the site, so I thought the rating system seemed a bit skewed.

With this as my logic, I will also suggest that the “M” rating be given another term, like “OT” for “Older Teen”, or something. (Which will hopefully not be confused with T+)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:19PM
Aurora Moon at 10:18AM, May 21, 2007
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Well, then unfortunately, we disagree. Because I wouldn't want my 10-year-old niece to see marine's comic if there was a way to restrict her from viewing it. Sure, there are ‘milder’ comics in the M category, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. Like other people have also said, I don't think marine's comic constitutes an A rating, but it is definetly an M.

and I'm sure that there's plenty of T+ comics out there that parents wouldn't want their children to view because their children are not teenagers, and therefore is a little bit too young for some of the things in an Teen Comic.
So why aren't T+ comics restricted to only a certain age group so that 10-year-olds or younger can't access those comics?

Honestly, I just think there should be a better soluation to this than the ratings which obviously isn't working out for a lot of people.

The remedy to this would be–Just have an system where your comics can be only viewed by certain ages, and use the profiles of the people who logs into drunk duck to gauge their age.
it would work in the same way as the current system, only with this difference:
we're going by age groups, not ratings.

The comic creators could select which age group they're going for with thier comics:

7-12: very, very child-friendly. Gerenally everyone can view this kind of comic.

13-15: Contains themes that may not be suitable for pre-teens. very little cussing, but no nudity and very little violence. PG stuff, is restricted for younger people.

16-19: Older Teens only! May have violence, mild nudity (both doll-like or realstic) but no sex scenes depicted at all. May also have moderate to sereve cussing. Clearly
people under 16 cannot access this comic at all! in addtion to the restriction, an popup message would also appear warning the easily offended about the contents.

20-And-Up–Clearly, this is an comic that's not even suitable for any older mature teenagers to view… clearly for legal adults only. restricted to adults only. in additon to it, popup warning message just like the last one above.

This way, there would be NO confustion at all. if I had it set to 16-and-up only, then people wouldn't think it would be porn or something like they would normally think when they see my M rating.
honestly I think it makes more sense this way.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
usedbooks at 12:04PM, May 21, 2007
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What about non-DD members? Many of the people reading my comic aren't members, and I don't think they should HAVE to join just to read a few comics they like…

I think the system is fine now, but I agree with Kohdok, it is the terminology/connotation of “M” that is the turnoff. “T+” and “A” are good descriptors of the content. People know what to expect of them and whether or not they want to look at them. But “M” does not encompass the comics in the category because people associate it with the ESRB rating. The problem isn't who is ABLE to view it, so much as who will choose not to simply based on their concept of what “M” means.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:36PM
kyupol at 10:06PM, May 21, 2007
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I'm coming up with a new comic… that is (partially) independent of the BROOD KNIGHT storyline.

I have a few pages of its script done.

Here's an excerpt of the script that I feel might touch a few nerves:


(This is a devil trying to explain things to his “subordinates”)
5
LD: The immigrants will therefore bring down the standard of living for these spoiled Americans. Since these are the people who are willing to work so hard for so little money. Since these are the people who are least likely to form unions and demand better rights, and pay, Therefore, justifying the doctrine of Nazi Germany and the Ku Klux Klan.


6
LD: As a reaction, the white upper class will continue to discriminate the colored people. The white upper class will make it more difficult for colored people to advance up the ladder. While at the same time they will hide behind the fig leaves of affirmative action, diversity, and political correctness.


7
LD: And the immigrants will feel alienated. They will feel like they're being oppressed. That will lead them to protest such discrimination and demand more affirmative action, diversity, and political correctness policies which try to flip over the discrimination towards the upper white class. Particularly the white males.

In the end, this cycle of hate will continuously feed itself. Hatred will continuously build in the hearts of mankind. And more hatred in their hearts makes it very easy for us to take control. Of their body and souls. And lead more souls into hell.







Is this a “MATURE” or “ADULT” or is this kind of shit banned here?
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
skoolmunkee at 4:15AM, May 22, 2007
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kyupol
Is this a “MATURE” or “ADULT” or is this kind of shit banned here?

There isn't anything offensive in what you posted as far as the content guidelines are concerned. If that's the dialogue it would be E. (Although conceptually you'd have to be in your teens probably to understand it.)
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:40PM
SpANG at 6:11AM, May 22, 2007
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usedbooks
What about non-DD members? Many of the people reading my comic aren't members, and I don't think they should HAVE to join just to read a few comics they like…

I think the system is fine now, but I agree with Kohdok, it is the terminology/connotation of “M” that is the turnoff. “T+” and “A” are good descriptors of the content. People know what to expect of them and whether or not they want to look at them. But “M” does not encompass the comics in the category because people associate it with the ESRB rating. The problem isn't who is ABLE to view it, so much as who will choose not to simply based on their concept of what “M” means.
Sorry, I mispoke earlier. E, T+, and M comic are available to unlogged users. Ozone brought that to my attention. ;)
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
skoolmunkee at 9:28AM, May 22, 2007
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SpANG
Sorry, I mispoke earlier. E, T+, and M comic are available to unlogged users. Ozone brought that to my attention. ;)

However if you're under 13 and you DO have an account, M comics will be blocked.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:40PM
kyupol at 9:36AM, May 22, 2007
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Thanks for the clarification.

But how about this scene of a dysfunctional family that gets a bit racist in the conversation?

2
Mom: Oh my God! I ‘m late for church again because of you!
Dad: What did I do?
Mom: What do you mean what? You re always snoring so fucking loud that I couldnt fucking go to sleep asshole!!! And that smell of alchohol! I COULDNT STAND IT!

Dad: What do you want me to do? Not sleep? LOOK! Im already stressed out and tired at work because of these goddamned racist white people at work who think Im inferior even if I have multiple university degrees!

When I come home, I need a break! And with you waking me up like this all the time complaining about my snoring and my drinking?!? FUCK YOU!
(*Dad slaps mom*)


3
(*mom starts to cry*)
Dad: Im the one working full time here! Im the one paying the bills in this house and working 10 hours a day in a shit factory job!

And you still have the audacity to shoot off your mouth like that in front of me?

You have no respect for me! We’ve only been in Canada for a few years and youre starting to act up like the white women and their feminism and their sense of entitlement!

I dont see anything good that is coming from our migration to Canada! Fuck the Philippine consulate and Canadian embassy who sold this idea to us! Fuck I feel so stupid! FUUUUUUCKKKKK!!!!!!!! THIS BULLSHIT!


4
(*Dad looks at Eman*)
Dad: And you the fuck are you lookin at? You gonna be a gangsta yo? I know what will happen to you in the future!

You'll be like one of those young Filipino men I see in the bus who dress up like black people and act like they're the gangsta yo!!! YO YO YO YO!!!! FUCK!!! IMA MOFUCKING GENGSTA FLO YO YO YO!!! (*sarcasm*)

And then what? You now feel sorry for your mom cuz I slapped her?!? Just because shes a woman?!? You and your fucking sense of chivalry! You are a fucking pussy, Eman! You are growing up to be a fucking pussy!!!

FUCK THIS PLACE!!!
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
kyupol at 9:56AM, May 22, 2007
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Oh… and I'm SERIOUSLY not doing this to troll or attention whore and shit.

What I know so far regarding racism:

- It is not allowed if it is direct promotion of violence and hatred against a particular group. In my honest opinion, the above script is more of a rant by an angry alcoholic dad. Not a direct media assault. In real life, I'm a multi-cultural person. I have friends of people of all races.

I've been to stormfront before and someone in their forums posted a few offensive cartoons. For instance:

1)
A world without (*picture of black man and jew*) is a world without (*picture of cockroach and rat*)

2)
A cartoon that disses asians. It showed a drawing of an asian with exagerrated slant eyes… and a bunch of text on the background that criticizes asian food, the way they talk, how they imitate the “niggers”.

3)
A drawing of a US soldier with no arms and no legs… and text on the background that says something about US troops fighting for the jews in the iraq war. With the usual conspiracy of the jews to enslave the white man.


The purpose of this post is to clarify this matter. Maybe my above script is a direct racist assault to some people? That is why I would like to hear your opinion. Thank you.


NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
SpANG at 10:13AM, May 22, 2007
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kyupol
The purpose of this post is to clarify this matter. Maybe my above script is a direct racist assault to some people? That is why I would like to hear your opinion. Thank you.
T+ =
Content is suitable for teens or older. Mild violence, slightly mature themes. No obscenities, graphic violence, sex, or nudity.

M =
13 and older only. Content contains mature themes not suitable for children. May contain occasional obscenities, limited graphic violence, implied sex, mild nudity. No sexually explicit material, no graphic sexual acts, no Hentai, no unrelenting violence, or non-stop obscenities.

A=
18+ only. Content is sexually explicit, exceedingly violent, or an excess use of obscenities.
The answer is of course A. Racial slurs are obscenities. The definiton of obscenity is an offensive or indecent word or phrase. You used them excessivly, too, along with the usual swears. So yeah, ADULT.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM
Volte6 at 11:32AM, May 22, 2007
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Hey guys,

You may or may not consider the rating system ambiguous. I for one think they are specific enough to provide guidelines to those willing to police themselves.

That said, short of a 10 page document no doubt full of legal phrasing, I doubt we're going to ever be able to adequately cover every single scenario or possibility. It's not realistic.

I think we all know what we're trying to accomplish with the ratings system, and to that end, much of it will be to the admin's discretion.

Again, I totally understand that it helps a lot to be clear on exactly how many bad words and how many penis noses or whatever would classify you as an adult or mature comic, but the fact is, admins have to take a lot into account, not just simple numbers juggling.

Since there are no current plans to change the way the ratings system works, I'm hoping this clarifies the situation. I'm going to lock the thread to keep it from becoming a nit picking argument or anything, but please feel free to PQ me about it.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:43PM

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