Debate and Discussion

OKAY, we get it... USA is NOT perfect
bravo1102 at 11:15AM, April 28, 2008
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FyreHyde
England - the same country where one of the most offensive things you can call someone is “paki”

And I thought it was still Belgian.

As for the dangers in the USA, I'm more worried about gang-bangers than Black Bears.(in the NY tri-state areas we have Black bears) There are a lot more gang-bangers and when a group shows up you can't just trank them, mark them and then release in the wild. You practically have to call out a Stryker Brigade with tank support.

Ever see the NYPD these days? Full body armor and MP-5 submachine guns or M4 carbines. You stare at them because you're not expecting to see something like that coming out of a Broadway show and they just smile and tip their kevlar helmet at you.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
Product Placement at 4:56PM, April 29, 2008
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Freedom exists in more places then in America bobhhh.

I frequently travel to the states, wisiting the inlaws and I once encountered a wild crocodile while in Florida. True story. It snuck into the lake that the neighborhood surounded and it floated around there until animal control picked it up.

If anyone wants to hear about ignorance about ones country then someone told me to say hi to the polarbears and penguins when I announced that I was going back home once.

…. I forgive the polarbear comment but penguins? These things don't even live in the same hemisphere.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
bobhhh at 6:43PM, April 29, 2008
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Product Placement
Freedom exists in more places then in America bobhhh.

I frequently travel to the states, wisiting the inlaws and I once encountered a wild crocodile while in Florida. True story. It snuck into the lake that the neighborhood surounded and it floated around there until animal control picked it up.

If anyone wants to hear about ignorance about ones country then someone told me to say hi to the polarbears and penguins when I announced that I was going back home once.

…. I forgive the polarbear comment but penguins? These things don't even live in the same hemisphere.

Without a doubt. Srcastic dismmissals of entire nations don't do any body any good.

I hope my proclamation of love for my country didn't come off as a diss to other nations.

Certainly freedom and liberty are to be found in other countries and each ntion has their character and history to contribute to the world.

Vive la differnce!!
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM
sword_dagger at 6:46AM, July 5, 2008
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simonitro
I have to take this off my chest.

First of, I'm not an American but enough is enough.

There are like 3688236876 movies that shows that bad side of the USA and yesterday, I was watching Borat's movie and I felt disgust about it.

Just because USA the most superior country in the world that doesn't mean that it's 200% perfect without any problems of its own and other shit. I mean, there's a good side and the bad side to the country just like any other country in the world, but I don't know why whether Anti-Americans Americans or Outsiders would love to poke at the negative side of the country as if their own is perfect.

The medication is expensive, okay, we get it… come to other countries… there are even places which hardly you could afford any hospitalization at all and just because it's USA, they have to point their fingers at the bad places.

I know these movies are trying to prove a point and show the government but hey, it's politics and it's rarely politicians would answer to your salvations.

I've been to US myself and I loved and I know I haven't seen the bad side of it not because I don't want to but because why should I?

If you'd come to Lebanon as visitors, you'd love the country but stay here for awhile you'd hate the living fuck out of the country. There's a difference between someone is on vacation in a certain country and someone trying to live permenantly. I find it difficult for a foriegner to get used to Lebanese ways of living than the American ways of living.

so, what's your point of you of this discussion?


What is it your trying to say. Are you trying to say that the problems that we do have we shouldn't fix.

I want people to comlain about ever single little dent that they want fixed. Even if it is a little scratch, fix it.

It's true that america is not perfect, but that just means we have to fix what makes us not perect, not just leave it.

People who talk like you says slavery wasn't that bad. If you say to my face that slavory ain't bad you'll be lucky not to get a sonic and knuckle sandwich to the face.

I think people should complain and do something about EVERY SINGLE mistake that america has.

If it is not perfect fix it. Thats what many good leaders did. If you are suggesting that we should not fix any mistakes then I hope your not a leader.
It's true that people has it more tough in other places, but that means the WORLD has to come together as on to fix problems and not only care for themselves.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:05PM
arteestx at 8:05PM, July 6, 2008
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simonitro
Just because USA the most superior country in the world that doesn't mean that it's 200% perfect without any problems of its own and other shit. I mean, there's a good side and the bad side to the country just like any other country in the world, but I don't know why whether Anti-Americans Americans or Outsiders would love to poke at the negative side of the country as if their own is perfect.

….so, what's your point of you of this discussion?
Last week, Time Magazine had a fantastic cover story written by Peter Beinart about how patriotism is viewed by conservatives and liberals. In a nutshell, conservatives view patriotism in terms of honoring the past, revering what our forefathers created against all odds. The past hasn't been perfect, obviously, but most of human history has been a story of kings, dictators, and tyrants. What this country was founded on is truly remarkable, so patriotism starts with that honoring of our country instead of criticizing our faults.

Liberals, on the other hand, view patriotism in terms of the future, about shortening the gap between the ideals that this country was founded on and the reality of what we have. Yes, the past should be honored, but the past should also be surpassed as we strive to become a more perfect union. So patriotism is about honoring dissent and diversity instead of merely celebrating where we've been.

That's why the flag pin is such a weird issue. For conservatives, it's a simple way to honor our past, and anyone who can't do such a simple thing is viewed with suspicion. For liberals, flag pins are ok but such superficial symbols shouldn't take precedence over policies as a reflection of our ideals.

Slavery is another example. To conservatives, slavery is obviously a mistake this country made, but instead of fixating on how bad America was, we should understand how great America was compared to other countries also involved in slavery and see how great America is for ending that practice and being a beacon of hope to the world. To liberals, slavery shows how the past is not something to be revered but instead we need to understand what happened so that we can understand the problems of today, make this country better by continuing to expand rights to citizens, and so forth.

The author suggests that we need both views; reverence for the past is meaningless without continually struggling with our shortcomings. And cherishing the ideals of America isn't the same as cherishing the country and loving it with all its faults and problems. I recommend the article, it's very good reading (and I think it's still free for another week or two, so don't wait too long).


Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
ozoneocean at 2:51AM, July 7, 2008
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arteestx
The author suggests that we need both views…
I take in the whole of what you say there and it sums up the trend of the whole thread very well, but this sentence grabs me. The reality is that there are not two opposing views, there never are. People have a vast multiplicity of opinions, as varied as their are people on the planet. Views and ideas overlap and intermingle. The only place they exist in pure isolated form is in paragraphs like those which are designed to simplify and distil, to make a point that's easily communicable.

So that sentence strikes me particularly. Rather than needing “both views”, you acknowledge that there's limited wisdom to be found in holding to extreme positions, that it makes more sense to take the best notions from wherever they arise…
———–


As for slavery, I like the idea of taking a silver lining from it, but really, America was rather backward and slow there. Even on down the line to giving women the vote. Heh, but I suppose that's just trivia here :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:31PM
Ronson at 9:59PM, July 8, 2008
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Well, there are a few things that are important in a discussion about the US on these forums…

1. This is the debate forum. If something is a good thing and considered so by most, then it really isn't going to be debated. So that's why there's a lot of negative topics.

2. Most of the Duckers are Americans. That's just statistically true. Statistically, very few Americans have experienced life in other countries. Therefore, we discuss the shortcomings of America. I've seen a few threads debating Canadian government and even some Aussie critiques, but they usually leave the bulk of Duckers on the sidelines - because of lack of experience.

3. Overt attacks upon our freedoms are fairly new to Americans. Prior to the inelegant GWB, we were losing our freedoms so slowly that we hardly noticed. Now it has become so blatant - and alarming - that even some of the republicans are starting to notice.

4. America casts a long shadow. And there are few countries that are currently in very bad positions that can't at least partially look at American foreign and economic policy for blame. Latin America especially, but also India and the Middle East. Even China - as a result of American corporate commercial exploitation - is destroying itself with pollution. Though the Americans are hardly alone in blame for this.

So yeah, I got some complaints. I think this country is in the middle of some of the biggest mistakes that a country can make. I don't see a way to turn it around, and the very people who think I'm nuts (or too liberal…or whatever word they need to dismiss me) are the ones who are rushing us towards catastrophic decline.

I do like our road system though. Overall, you can get anywhere on fairly well maintained roadways. So that's a good thing, right?

…of course, that was just part of the rise of the military industrial complex, and roads were considered necessary to move our military quickly across the nation…sigh…
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
mapaghimagsik at 9:40PM, July 16, 2008
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I believe in fixing home before trying to fix the outside, hence I look for places the US can improve.

At the same time, its good to look at where other countries have succeeded/failed, so that we can learn from other people's successes/mistakes.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM

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