Debate and Discussion

Opinion of Canadian heath care system.
kyupol at 4:44PM, May 24, 2007
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Im canadian.

And I havent really used it… (since I'm in my 20s and in relatively good health)

What I understand… is I'm FULLY COVERED whenever I visit the doctor for a consultation. I just show him my ohip card… and then he will take a look at me… then he will prescribe me medicine.

Here's the catch tho… The individual prescription drugs is NOT COVERED by the govt health plan. You either have to pay it out of your pocket or out of the company benefits or private health insurance if you have any.

I also understand… that hospitalization is covered… but I have to pay for the medicines I get during my stay in the hospital.

But if lets say Im not a citizen, I'd be paying just to have the doc look at me for 5 minutes.



NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Black_Kitty at 5:38PM, May 24, 2007
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I'm Canadian~

kyupol
I also understand… that hospitalization is covered… but I have to pay for the medicines I get during my stay in the hospital.

Not quite. My mother did not have to pay for the morphine or x-rays that she had while she was in the hospital. She did however have to pay for the ambulance ride to the hospital ($45.)

I personally like the Canadian health system. One thing people have to remember is that it's not actually free. Universal health care is pre-paid health care. You pay for it through your tax dollars. Not everything however is covered (dental for example isn't which is a shame.)

It has its ups and downs. I like how I never have to worry about money should I need to see the doctor. I don't abuse it but your family doctor is your first line of defense so to speak so it's good that there's no worrying about whether or not I can afford to see her.

I do not know how wait time is like over in the US so I can't really say much about it. There is wait time when it comes to more serious treatments but again, there's no worrying about paying the specialist, chemotherapy, etc. You do need to pay for medication but there is the Trillium Drug Plan for those who may be going through financial troubles and require drug insurance. (You have to pay a certain amount through prescription and after that, the government will cover you for the rest of the year.) Mind you, my personal experience with the Trillium Drug Plan is a big pain in the neck but that's bureaucracy for you.

Canada's health care system isn't perfect but in a way, nobody is denied basic health care. I would imagine that yes, you probably would get faster treatment with private health care…but part of the reason why private health care is faster is because not everyone can afford it. That cuts down on the amount of people that will be treated. I could be completely wrong though in which case, someone feel free to correct me.

I've heard a lot of people talk poorly about the health care system in Canada but without revealing too much personal information, I can say that I'm pretty thankful for it. Not everyone can afford private insurance but unfortunately, the reality is that not everyone can afford to put off a doctor's visit or medical treatment either.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:24AM
Peter Melvin at 7:09PM, May 24, 2007
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Being Scottish I can only say that our own heathcare system has done all right by me any time I've needed care.
Sure all you hear about is how underfunded it is or how theres too much red tape but let me tell you, when I needed them, they were there for me and thats all that matters.
If it wasn't for our free health care I would be dead and that is a stone cold FACT.

Pete

last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Aereis at 9:26AM, May 25, 2007
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Hello, I'm Canadian.

It's been mentioned that we have to pay for perscriptions. Yes, and that sucks, very badly. I have psoriasis and I have to pay 50 bucks for these puny tubes of topical creame, and you don't know if it will work until you try it, and I've found that before I finish the tube or container, it no longer is effective.

Also, since I moved there are no doctors available for more patients. Meaning I have to wait in the emergency room even for a doctors note, which costs 10$. The hospitals are always jammed with people, alot of people who have nothing wrong with them. When my brother was born 9 years ago, there was a story about a woman with her new born baby at the local hospital. Her baby died in her arms because the hospital was too busy to see the baby. My point, people take advantage of the ‘free health care’ and cause problems.

I don't know if this is off topic, but Canada also takes a LONG time to approve medicine. Some people say it's because of the free health care, but I don't know.

So I guess the health care system goes up and down.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:46AM
Tantz Aerine at 11:05AM, May 25, 2007
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I'm Greek-Canadian.

I left Canada early in my life, but as I went through a pretty nasty and life threatening typhoid as a baby, we had to use the Canadian health care system. At the time- and we are talking late 70s- the system was great. You had to pay for nothing as long as you were a canadian citizen. Everything was covered, including dental.

In the 1980s we heard the system deteriorated and people were forced to pay for medicine and dental. However, still it seems to be effective enough in getting medical attention to people who need it.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:07PM
lothar at 3:40PM, May 25, 2007
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i don't know about the Canadian system , but the Japanese system is pretty good , it's kinda voluntary government insurance , you pay a monthly rate somewhere around 100$ US (varies acording to income), that rate covers you AND any family members in your house . the average doctor visit is ~30 $US and medicines (usually 5+ perscriptions) is around 15$ (total) . dental is practiaclly free its so cheap, i went in for 2 or 3 fillings and it was like 17$ they even payed me back for the price of parking !
i compare this to the US system where i could rarely even afford to go to the doctor/dentisit , even WITH insurance !!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Phantom Penguin at 4:57PM, May 25, 2007
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I only know what I've heard about the Canadian system, I heard its a good idea but not in practice.

I on the other hand have great insurance. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
legendkiller13 at 6:01PM, May 25, 2007
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wow, has american healthcare beat hands down no matter what the problems with it might be. someone said a ambulance ride cost 45 bucks, here in louisiana it'll cost a min of 400 or more depending. just to see a doc runs about 150 of a general visit, this covers nadda but seeing the doc. the average healthcare deduct is 500 and many docs wont see you unless its already met or you pay them up front. someone said in japan 3 fillings cost 17, youd be looking at at least 300 to 1000 here depending on the doc, wether there a good ole country doc or something more upscale. even our so called charity hospitals charge you, if they will see you, if you qualify. after you sit there all day even with an appointment. its amazing how we tout ourselves as the saviors of the world and we dont even provide our citizens with health, dental, vision and education. these seem to be what i would think were referred to as certain unalienable rights, but hell what do i know right? im just some jackass who gave money to st. judes childrens hospital to try and make sure sick kids have somewhere to get medical treatment if their familes cant afford it, all because we have such a great government that takes care of each and every one!!! sarcasm intended. dont get me wrong i love this land , but goddammit so much seems so obvious …its time for an awakening amoungst ourselves and let it be known in 2008 !!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:34PM
ccs1989 at 9:36PM, May 25, 2007
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If you're wealthy, have a really good corporate job with a lot of benefits, or are just against the idea of socialized anything, then American Health Care is for you! However for a family of four you can expect to work full time just to pay for health care, in the off chance that something bad will happen at some point, in which case your health care company will try to get out of covering you in any way possible and make you pay more each month every time after the initial health issue.



http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
Hawk at 8:47AM, May 26, 2007
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Canadian Bacon made the Canadian health care system seem pretty nice. Well, it made a lot of things about Canada seem nice.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
marine at 7:30PM, May 27, 2007
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I'm american, and in canada milk comes in bags. you don't lock your doors. I just feel its like a bizzare america junior with health care. Seriously, whine about having to pay for your prescriptions when you have to pay for your doctor visit as well.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:52PM
Aereis at 11:26AM, May 28, 2007
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*Cough* Milk comes in more than bag form *cough*

If you only see the doctor one in a blue moon, it's totally ok. But if you have to go alot, like my sister who has CP, it takes a toll. My brother broke his wrist and has knee problems (don't know the name of it) and no one wants to give him surgery. He came home, got drunk and had his friend PUSH his knuckle back in place because no one wanted to get off their asses to help. It was one of the grossest things I had to watch in real life.

So far, I pay roughly 80$/month for perscriptions. We pay taxes blah blah and we don't get much. A friend needed a heart transplant and he's going to have to foot the bill when he actually GETs the heart.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:46AM
kyupol at 2:31PM, May 28, 2007
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Dont you Americans feel embarrassed… that as the richest country in the world, you have an inferior health care system to Canada?

Shouldnt it be… as the world's sole superpower… and in the name of your national pride… to create a superior health care system to everyone in the world?

Like cmon. Instead of spending $150,000 on a bomb to be exploded in Iraq.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Peter Melvin at 2:47PM, May 28, 2007
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Canadians get milk in bags?! Seriously?!

last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Phantom Penguin at 3:57PM, May 28, 2007
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kyupol
Dont you Americans feel embarrassed… that as the richest country in the world, you have an inferior health care system to Canada?

Shouldnt it be… as the world's sole superpower… and in the name of your national pride… to create a superior health care system to everyone in the world?

Like cmon. Instead of spending $150,000 on a bomb to be exploded in Iraq.

Anti-Americanism hurray?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
kyupol at 4:45PM, May 28, 2007
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Oh I get it. America is overpopulated and the population needs to be reduced. Who cares of millions of americans are poor. Just let em die of hunger or sickness.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Black_Kitty at 5:02PM, May 28, 2007
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Okay guys, relax. :S There's no need to bait people Kyupol.

I understand that a handful of Americans do not speak for all of America but the few Americans I have talked to about the universal health care system in Canada really dislike it. They see it as a product of socialism with poor health care services that are already paid for so there's no other alternative. I still remember one person talking about how if he wants to donate to charity, then he'll do it himself. He doesn't see the need for the government to do it for him by using his money to pay for other people's health care.

And unless you use the health care system frequently in Canada, you really are paying for other people's health care. And if you're not okay with that then the universal health care system isn't really for you.

Aereis: Aren't there walk-in clinics where you live? I've heard that there's a family doctors shortage so a lot of people are without doctors. Some family doctors have so many patients that they've stopped taking in new ones.

I can understand what you mean about how people take advantage and abuse the system. I grumble about the $45 fee but I can see why it's in place. Years ago I remember reading in the papers how people would call for an ambulance for minor things like nosebleeds. So a $45 fee somewhat helps to deter people from doing stupid things like that.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:24AM
kyupol at 5:51PM, May 28, 2007
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Okay guys, relax. :S There's no need to bait people Kyupol.

Oops… sorry.

To make it clear. Americans are ok. Majority of them are concerned about human (and animal) rights… and freedom of expression, freedom of this and that… which is a good thing. :)

But their government is no good.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Phantom Penguin at 6:28PM, May 28, 2007
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kyupol
Okay guys, relax. :S There's no need to bait people Kyupol.

Oops… sorry.

To make it clear. Americans are ok. Majority of them are concerned about human (and animal) rights… and freedom of expression, freedom of this and that… which is a good thing. :)

But their government is no good.
Score! You rule at not talking about the topic.
I would rather have the canadian system then the regular american system. But my health care is great, totally free.

But I understand that only about 2% of the population have the same as mine.

I could see people getting pissed at paying for other people's health care if they never use it.

No system is perfect.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Aereis at 9:19PM, May 28, 2007
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haha…walk in clinics…what a joke. They're just as packed as the hospital. In fact, they're connected in one building in town and you all sit in the same emergency room with someone with a runny nose. ‘I have a cold,’ they say. Well no shit. Unless it's west nile, it's just holding back people with actual problems.

Because of the shortage, the referred my mother BACK to the doctor we had before, 9 HOURS away. Ok, right there, 200$ in gas, per trip. She's being treated for depression, anxiety, high blood pressure, stress, etc. And they want her to drive for 9 hours…yea, that was well thought out. This would be fixed with more doctors. But
Canada doesn't accept outside doctors. Respectible, licenced foreign doctors, even from America, can't pratice here without going through training AGAIN.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:46AM
kyupol at 6:11AM, May 29, 2007
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I think doctors in canada are lured away into the big cities or into the USA where they are getting paid more.

Its pretty sad.

IMO, the canadian doctors in the rural areas are just doing it for humanitarian reasons.

How many people are actually “humanitarian”?

Its kinda sad thinking about… that money and power is the be-all-end-all point of human existence.

Like jesus… Why do you need multiple houses and cars for? You're not gonna bring all of that with you when you leave this earth.


The Canadian govt isnt dumb. Bringing in more outside doctors will result in decreased wages for the existing doctors. I think the Canadian government is held hostage by the doctor's union or something. If the Canadian government will lets say… allow foreign doctors in, the doctor's union will just stop working or migrate to the USA. Since it doesnt take 1 second to teleport foreign docs into canada, in that timeframe, where people will be lacking doctors… people gonna die.

And if the Canadian government imports doctors from other countries, the other countries are the ones going to suffer from a doctor shortage.

And if other countries suffer from a doc shortage, that will hurt their economy and populations (economy and population is the vital resource in any country) therefore affecting trade relations.


Also, I forgot to mention the HIGH COST and RISK to be a doctor.

Who would immerse his face in a book constantly for 6 years… while at the same time have a high tuition cost? Who can afford the high tuition costs? The children of the elite.

And among the children of the elite… how many of them are actually SMART and DEDICATED enough to pursue the difficult and expensive path of studying to be a doctor? Haha… children of the elite are more likely to be soft and spoiled. Or maybe decide to take the easy route… which is to take BUSINESS courses and inherit the family business.

If you wanna be a doctor, you need INTELLIGENCE and WEALTH.

But… scholarships… but… why not borrow the OSAP from the government? but… look around for grants…

OSAP can only lend you so much… and these scholarships and grants tend to be racist and sexist… and ignore the true intelligence and capabilities of the person. Scholarships should be given to the DESERVING. Not because of gender, religion, or skin color but because of ABILITY. Like… make em write a test… and let the smartest ten percent win the scholarship to be a doctor.

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Sam_Charette at 9:54AM, May 30, 2007
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I, too, am Canadian, and I must say that though there are issues with it, our health care system is pretty good.

Without it, I wouldn't have found out that I suffer from depression (since feeling sad isn't one of my typical symptoms ;) ). If I couldn't have gotten the diagnosis, I don't know where I would be today. In a way it saved my life.

Granted my medication costs a lot, but thankfully the insurance through my employer covers it.

What I dislike, particularly for the area I live in, is that many doctors are lured away to the US because they can get more money. I can understand it, but that leaves a huge shortage in areas. In my area, if you don't have a doctor you're SOL. You get to go to the walk in clinics and wait for a couple of hours to be seen. Of course I often have the same wait at my doctor, but at least he can keep records on me :)

I remember going to the states many years ago, and one of the guys I met there was having some sort of problem. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it had symptoms that would seriously worry me. He didn't have the money to see a doctor, though, so he couldn't get someone to check him out.

I don't know what happened to him, but to me that's just wrong. I have no problems paying some taxes to help everyone, including myself, get some much needed care. It really irks me when I hear someone (mostly americans) complain about having to do that, because it's totally selfish of them. Just because they don't use the doctors much doesn't mean that they won't, or that they won't find themselves in a position where they need to, but would otherwise be unable to afford it.

It's insurance. You pay into it, and get to use it when you need to. It's like private insurance, really, as if you pay into that and never use it, your money is likely to be used to help pay out someone else's settlement. Banks and insurance companies can do what they do because the majority of people won't need their services (borrowing money, insurance payout, etc). Those people that need to take the money get it from other people who put the money in.

It's better than private insurance, though, because what is covered is covered, and the government doesn't try to figure out a way to screw you and make you pay for it instead.

The base difference between our health care and that of the americans, really, is that ours is government-run, and theirs is privately run. In other words, everyone in Canada is allowed to play in our sandbox, because everyone chips in, whereas in the US you have to pay to be able to play in it, and if you can't you aren't allowed. In both cases, though, it's just a sandbox that people are playing in. In a way, ours is socialist, whereas theirs is selective-socialist.

But socialism isn't the devil. It's a tool that can be used to help make sure that people without the means can access the services when they need them, be they health, unemployment insurance or even a place to host a webcomic.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
Defilia at 1:12AM, June 1, 2007
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well im from denmark.
we havew a very similar system, we pay tax, we get free healthcare.
in my eyes this is a good system as even the poor have the possibility to get treated if they have a broken leg. we dont really have any major problems, except one thing, cancer treatment. we have around 2-3 months of waiting time in the public sectors, and 1 month in the private. but the government actually pays your trip if you go to germany to get it done.
Defilia is not to be used unless recomended by your psychologist.

im a soldier, im a judge, but most of all i am my own executioner
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:10PM
Hawk at 10:58AM, June 1, 2007
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I remember once seeing a list of the most cost-efficient health care systems, listed by country, and compiled by the World Health Organization. At first I was a bit schocked to see the USA down in the lower forties, but as I examined the list I noticed that the countries that were rated the most cost-effective were usually the really small ones, like Morocco or Luxembourg. It gave me the impression that a smaller country may be easier to manage regarding health care.

USA has some obvious problems with its health care system, and I think some of that blame can be placed squarely on its size, its variety of living conditions, and the large amount of illegal immigrants does not help. The rest of course is probably bureaucratic problems. I don't really know how you'd fix it, though it's obvious something should be done. Examining how things work in Canada probably would be a pretty helpful though.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Aereis at 6:10AM, June 4, 2007
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kyupol
But… scholarships… but… why not borrow the OSAP from the government? but… look around for grants…

OSAP can only lend you so much… and these scholarships and grants tend to be racist and sexist… and ignore the true intelligence and capabilities of the person. Scholarships should be given to the DESERVING. Not because of gender, religion, or skin color but because of ABILITY. Like… make em write a test… and let the smartest ten percent win the scholarship to be a doctor.



Osap will lend you all that you need. Seriously. If you're unemployed and have zero dollars, you're in. I had to take a 6 grand loan, and it's gonna be more next year and the year after that. And private grants CAN discrimanate, you know why? Cause a private organization can choose who gets the free money (if I wanted to, I could give a million dollars to a student, but only if they have a horror webcomic with 1000 pages, and not care about anyone else). Alot of grants are for foreign students, respectively, and ya know, they need them too, just as much as a white kid. And the majority of grants and scholarships need an 80 gpa to qualify. I've never filled out an application that asks for my skin color. Where I live, yes, but that's acceptable.

Seriously, the wealth comes later. There are alot of students here training that have no money, and neither do their parents. But one day, they'll be a doctor by paying through loans.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:46AM
flyingwind66 at 11:42AM, July 11, 2007
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Peter Melvin
Canadians get milk in bags?! Seriously?!

I'm Canadian, and yes, SOME of our milk can be bought in plastic bags, it depends on what you prefer. One ‘bag’ you buy has 2 bags of 2 litres of milk (so it's 4 litres) and then you put the bag in a plastic jug you got from walmart (we have special plastic jugs sized spcifically just for this type of milk… like pringle packets) and then you cut a hole in the corner to pour it out. Maybe I'll take some pictures for you XD. We also have cartons of milk and hard plastic jugs. I have not seen glass milk bottles for a long time so I'm going to assume we don't have those anymore.

Now onto the topic. I keep hearing people complain about how the free health care might get privatized or at least here in BC. I do think that the decline has to do with people going to the doctor just because they have a bit of a cold (therefore, abusing the system) and yes, if a nosebleed persists for more than say, 20 minutes, you SHOULD go see a doctor (it's taught in first aid training) I can vouch for how crappy it's gotten. |When I was 8 I hit my head and was bleeding profusely, my dad made a sort of tourniquet with a cloth and took me to the clinic, I still had to wait half an hour and then the doctors had to put me under anesthetic and give me stitches.

More recently I was at work, and cleaning the oven in the deli and the bottle backfired and I got oven cleaner spurted into/around my eyes. I stood under the tap water for 1/2 and hour then went to the clinic next door (yes, the clinic was next door) and the secretary told me sit down, wait… I went back a 2nd time after like, 10 minute snad she's like ‘sit down~!’ I stood and was like ‘but-…’ she sighed and looked up ‘what is it?’ I just said bluntly ‘uhm… I got oven cleaner in my eyes’ and she FREAKED ‘OMG!!! WHY DIDN’T YOU SAY SO RIGHT AWAY???' she started shaking while she typed up stuff on the computer. ‘uh … ah… what’s your name? where's your care card- no never mind let me get you in right away~!'

Yeah, the health care is declining but still, from what I see here, I'd still prefer it to paying 150 American to SEE a doctor…
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:30PM
StaceyMontgomery at 1:27PM, July 11, 2007
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And yet, it happens all the time. They “don't treat you” in all sorts of ways that, apparently, count legally as “treating you” but it's the same thing. Im sorry, but I've taken many friends to the emergency room over years, and I speak from personal experience. The avenues of legal recourse that a sick person has at that moment are slim and none.

I've always been skeptical of switching to a Canadian or UK based plan, but it does seem like they do a much better job with emergency rooms.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Vindibudd at 1:42PM, July 11, 2007
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StaceyMontgomery
And yet, it happens all the time. They “don't treat you” in all sorts of ways that, apparently, count legally as “treating you” but it's the same thing. Im sorry, but I've taken many friends to the emergency room over years, and I speak from personal experience. The avenues of legal recourse that a sick person has at that moment are slim and none.

I've always been skeptical of switching to a Canadian or UK based plan, but it does seem like they do a much better job with emergency rooms.

Now you are simply in denial. If you are not legally properly treated, which does NOT mean whatever you want and however you want it, there are about 5 million lawyers willing to talk to you with a free consultation.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
StaceyMontgomery at 2:33PM, July 11, 2007
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Vindibudd

I hope I can disagree with you here without seeming overly argumentative. My experience is just different from yours.

First of all, the “5 million lawyers” you speak of will not help you get treated that day in the emergency room. So, in fact, their existence made no difference in the instances where I have experienced these sorts of problems. Have you ever successfully sued an Emergency Room? If not, then you are not speaking from personal experience. The fabled ease with which Americans can sue Doctors is just that - a fable. In practice, its very hard to do. And if you're poor and (and here's the big one) sick, well, then it's even harder. Doctors, in my experience, are even better at covering their asses then they are at healing the sick.

The truth is, the people at the bottom of our social ladder face all kinds of challenges. They are often the very old, the sick, the disabled, or people who face specific forms of discrimination. They are often easily intimidated by doctors, and in my opinion, doctors are very quick to intimidate them. Those people may simply not be well equipped to wield “the system” in their own defense, and resources to help them do so are hard to come by. i know that because I've knocked on a lot of doors looking for those resources.

Of course, it may be that I am just reading the situation wrong - perhaps everyone really is “properly legally treated” - in which case our standards for “proper and legal” are just too low and need to be raised.

As far as i can tell, something like %80 of Americans are getting OK health care - though their life expectancy seems to be pretty low compared to other nations, which should give us pause. It seems like we could provide much better services to the other %20 without having to redo everything from the ground up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM

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