Debate and Discussion

Organ/Blood Donation?
imshard at 10:48AM, Dec. 17, 2007
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nonono overtax the people who don't donate, then make it socially unacceptable to keep your parts.

That said I'm a doner, but I think the current system is fine. People can donate if they want, but something as personal and private as your body should not be regulated. Free choice baby.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
TnTComic at 11:07AM, Dec. 17, 2007
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bobhhh
I respect your fear, but further research might prove it to be unfounded and perhaps in the long run a bit dangerous.

I was only partly joking.

But let's be serious, folks. Pretend you're a paramedic, and you show up at the scene of a nasty accident. You have a pretty good idea the dude's not going to make it, and he's got organs that could save a handful of people. He's a donor, so maybe you just wait a few minutes.

And then you report what you did? I don't think so. There's no way you'd ever be able to find evidence of it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

By the way, if Myx calls me a wacko, that means i'm the sanest dude in the topic.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 12:51PM, Dec. 17, 2007
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imshard
That said I'm a doner, but I think the current system is fine.

I just wish there could be an economic incentive worked into the system somehow so there could be more organs available for donation. The majority of folks go to the grave with all their parts intact. Maybe if their “estate” could be pumped up by several thousand dollars per usable organ it would inspire folks to not only donate but to keep their organs in good shape. After all, a tax free $50,000 would go a long way toward putting a kid through college and might work as an incentive for daddy to mark OK and to keep his liver in good shape.

Might not too, but why should the docs and hospitals be the only ones to come out like bandits on an organ transplant?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 1:07PM, Dec. 17, 2007
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TnTComic
I was only partly joking.

Then maybe your only a partial hypocrite. You want folks to be generous with their money in life but you refuse to be generous with your organs in death.

TnTComic
But let's be serious, folks. Pretend you're a paramedic, and you show up at the scene of a nasty accident. You have a pretty good idea the dude's not going to make it, and he's got organs that could save a handful of people. He's a donor, so maybe you just wait a few minutes.

Wow, you really are a paranoid wacko. The paramedics are too busy stabilizing you for transport to even think about what's on your drivers licence. The bandage bleeding, give oxygen and IV fluids. They don't know shit about you at that point unless a family member is there to tell them useful information. They might risk administering some drugs but they don't have your medical history so they don't want to risk too many drug complications. That's why if you have drug allergies they recommend wearing a pendant or wristband that lists those allergies. The organ donor decisions are made at the hospital by doctors who look things over AFTER you have been declared dead by the doctors working on saving your life. But go ahead and keep your paranoid delusions, I suppose your worried that your organs might be used to save some rich guy who you think ought to be murdered by poor folks.

TnTComic
And then you report what you did? I don't think so. There's no way you'd ever be able to find evidence of it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Yeah, sure. Tell me, do you think the Illuminati are involved in this? Maybe the Freemasons?

TnTComic
By the way, if Myx calls me a wacko, that means i'm the sanest dude in the topic.

Somehow I doubt that logic holds any more water than the rest of what you've said here.

Would you listen to reason from the Mayo Clinic or are they in on your global organ donation conspiracy?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/organ-donation/FL00077

More than 95,000 people are on the U.S. organ transplant waiting list, waiting for kidneys, livers, pancreases, intestines, bone marrow, hearts and lungs. Nearly 6,000 people died waiting for an organ transplant in 2006 - that's 16 people a day.

My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
bobhhh at 1:23PM, Dec. 17, 2007
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imshard
nonono overtax the people who don't donate, then make it socially unacceptable to keep your parts.

That said I'm a doner, but I think the current system is fine. People can donate if they want, but something as personal and private as your body should not be regulated. Free choice baby.

Free choice is fine, but if you make a choice not to donate, then why should you be rewarded with other peoples organs who were more generous?

It seems so easy to be generous upon death in this instance, I can't understand not doing so freely, but if you're going to be stubborn with the disposition of your lifeless husk, then shouldn't you refuse an organ transplant simply on princible?

I mean if you are adamant that it's wrong and/or dangerous, then aren't you promoting the wrongdoing by accepting a donor organ?
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
imshard at 2:03PM, Dec. 17, 2007
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bobhhh
imshard
nonono overtax the people who don't donate, then make it socially unacceptable to keep your parts.

That said I'm a doner, but I think the current system is fine. People can donate if they want, but something as personal and private as your body should not be regulated. Free choice baby.

Free choice is fine, but if you make a choice not to donate, then why should you be rewarded with other peoples organs who were more generous?

It seems so easy to be generous upon death in this instance, I can't understand not doing so freely, but if you're going to be stubborn with the disposition of your lifeless husk, then shouldn't you refuse an organ transplant simply on princible?

I mean if you are adamant that it's wrong and/or dangerous, then aren't you promoting the wrongdoing by accepting a donor organ?

Well to give is better than to receive. HAH!! Just kidding, like anybody believes that in this greedy self-concerned world.

though I gotta say… them organs look reeeaeaally good to a doctor who has a enormous student loan to pay off…
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
TnTComic at 5:50PM, Dec. 17, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
TnTComic
I was only partly joking.

Then maybe your only a partial hypocrite. You want folks to be generous with their money in life but you refuse to be generous with your organs in death.

I never said any such thing. Making you not a partial, but a full-blown liar. Maybe you should un-mark your driver's license… I doubt people want a liar's organs.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 6:18PM, Dec. 17, 2007
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TnTComic
I never said any such thing.

Except that you think the rich dodge their taxes to much and lets not forget that you think life is more important than possessions. But you aren't willing to donate organs to save that valuable life…

Yeah, I'm sticking with labeling you hypocrite.

TnTComic
I doubt people want a liar's organs.

That's no excuse to keep you from marking the box. They'll take your hypocritical lying organs just as happily as the organs of some saint.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
TnTComic at 6:12AM, Dec. 18, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
TnTComic
I never said any such thing.

Except that you think the rich dodge their taxes to much

Yep.


Mister Mxyzptlk
and lets not forget that you think life is more important than possessions.

Yep.


Mister Mxyzptlk
But you aren't willing to donate organs to save that valuable life…

Organ donation is a personal choice, and mine is based on saving my own life before I save others. Sorry man, but self-preservation isn't exactly a radical notion.

Mister Mxyzptlk
Yeah, I'm sticking with labeling you hypocrite.

The guy who claims possessions are more valuable than life calls me a hypocrite. Like I said before, if you're insulting me, I must be doing something right. I love your views… rape shouldn't be illegal, you should be able to kill to defend your possessions… and for god's sake, MARK YOUR ORGAN DONATION BOX!!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 1:12PM, Dec. 18, 2007
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TnTComic
Organ donation is a personal choice, and mine is based on saving my own life before I save others. Sorry man, but self-preservation isn't exactly a radical notion.

Yeah, they're just dying to steal your organs. Those sneaky Ambulance drivers. You know, I'll bet they set up car wrecks just to get organs off unsuspecting organ donors.

TnTComic
The guy who claims possessions are more valuable than life calls me a hypocrite.

Possessions are more valuable than the life of a thief. An important distinction. When someone sets out to break the law they know getting killed is a possible result of that action. They made a choice. If they get blown away in the commission of that crime no one should cry over them. Except you do.

But if that thief needed a spleen because he got shot breaking into the wrong house at the same time you lay dead in a traffic accident you would let him be one of the several thousand people who die because you, and other selfish paranoid dicks like you, who don't want to risk the loose morals of an overzealous paramedic.

Yes. You are a hypocrite.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
TnTComic at 3:02PM, Dec. 18, 2007
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Why don't you tell us all why rape shouldn't be a crime again.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
bobhhh at 3:36PM, Dec. 18, 2007
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Why don't you tell us all why rape shouldn't be a crime again.

Wasn't it you who rightly told me not to feed the troll anymore?
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
TnTComic at 3:59PM, Dec. 18, 2007
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Touche.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 3:13PM, Dec. 19, 2007
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TnTComic
Why don't you tell us all why rape shouldn't be a crime again.

Why don't you try to make an effort to stay on topic.

You are a greedy, self centered bastard who wants to go to the grave with all his precious organs intact. You claim to respect all life but you have no interest in helping doctors save lives with your slightly used organs. You claim as your excuse to fear that you will be seen as an batch of organs instead of as a patient. But the nice man at the Mayo Clinic explains that your organ donor status isn't even discussed until the doctor trying to save your life gives up.

How about something better than an article about a suicide in Colorado to back up your lame excuse for being a hypocrite?

As for the rape thing, I was trying to get people to think a bit outside their box. Obviously most folks are comfortable inside their little boxes and had no interest in taking a peek outside their own views on property and the value of life. Which is further proven by your insistence that your paranoid delusions about organ greedy paramedics are perfectly rational.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Emnoodle at 3:48PM, Dec. 19, 2007
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My grandpa, who died just over a year ago, had cancer.

It was originally found in his lungs, and over a six-month period, it began spreading around his body. At one point, a large tumor grew on his kidney, and to save his life, the infected kidney was surgically removed.
Your kidney is a vital organ, and living with only one is a tough, but possible condition. Unfortunately, because of many factors caused by the cancer and its rapid spread, he died a few months later.

I'm going to bring a hypothetical situation to the tabble:
I'd like to know what would've happened if he'd lost both kidneys. Would there be a donor there? Someone could've saved his life by donating one of their kidneys. It is a large adjustment to live without an organ like that, but it is possible. If you take care of yourself, you can lead a normal life. Personally, I'm all for organ donations. I feel that people have the obligation to care for others, especially those in need. If we are to be so self centered that we cannot help others because it will inconvienence ourselves, what kind of people are we?

Paramedics are not all greedy. That is a broad generalization - it's not terribly far fetched to think that an EMS guy could do that. But if you're trained in the profession of saving lives, I don't see how most with that vocation can do so with a clean concience.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 9:07AM, Dec. 20, 2007
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Emnoodle
My grandpa, who died just over a year ago, had cancer.

I understand. I lost a grandfather to bone cancer. He dropped into a coma for a couple weeks and died at home. He had a living will and the best way to follow his wishes was to bring him home and let him pass.

Emnoodle
It was originally found in his lungs, and over a six-month period, it began spreading around his body. At one point, a large tumor grew on his kidney, and to save his life, the infected kidney was surgically removed.

That is one hell of a painful surgery. My dad had both removed a few years ago.

Emnoodle
I'd like to know what would've happened if he'd lost both kidneys. Would there be a donor there?

Statistically speaking, probably not. Kidneys are a high demand organ. My dad sat on the transplant list for a couple years gutting it out on dialysis until finally we found out that my mother could donate to him. So she did. Now they each have one kidney and she has a $150,000 addition on her home… He's kinda unable to tell her no anymore for some reason.

Emnoodle
It is a large adjustment to live without an organ like that, but it is possible.

Yeah, when mine finally drop below 15% function we are looking into the “swap a kidney” deal. It's a deal where you basically say “I'll give my kidney to your spouse if you give your kidney to mine” for cases where the spouse can donate but their factors aren't in sync with their own spouse.

Emnoodle
If you take care of yourself, you can lead a normal life.

Yeah, my mom is doing great. I think she secretly liked the weight loss hat came with organ removal…

Emnoodle
it's not terribly far fetched to think that an EMS guy could do that.

It's actually nigh on impossible. If you die in the field before getting to the hospital, especially if the transport it too long, your organs may not be in good enough shape to transplant. They would have to do quite a few mental calculations to insure that you died in transport, just before hitting the hospital, to maximize the organ donation possibilities. The best case is when you die in the hospital and they can hook you up to life support while wheeling and dealing over the organs. EMTs just aren't going to play god like that. They can't. They simply don't have time to determine if someone is an organ donor.

If they COULD easily and quickly determine donor status don't you think they would be more likely to say about someone who ISN'T a donor “Selfish bastard, why work on him? Lets help the organ donors first.” If there is a bias toward donors don't you think it would be a bias in your favor?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
albone at 9:28AM, Dec. 20, 2007
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I think the spirit of donation should not come with any sort of judgement for or against. It's your body, do what you want.

Personally, I signed the donor part of my driver's license. When I'm dead, I won't have any worries.
You are part of the rebel alliance and a traitor!
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:48AM
freefall_drift at 11:23AM, Dec. 20, 2007
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There was a fun old larry niven story where the demand for replacement organs became extreme. The protagonist was in jail, and scheduled to be killed so they could harvest his organs and tissues. The punchline was that he was in jail for too many parking tickets.
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
freefall_drift at 11:53AM, Dec. 20, 2007
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I have a problem with the Absurd profits made on some of tissue and organs and NONE of that goes to the families of the dead. That would be like musicians or artists being asked to give away their art or music for free, for the benefit of the record label or publishing company. The system should be reworked, so if a body generates some massive profits, the family gets a share.
Yes, I know that raises the plot of killing someone for their organs, but I don't like the current system either.
That said, if I can help out someone when I die, they can take some tissues and parts. I'll be dead, I don't need them.
I just want to cremated when they are done.
Freefall Drift - A sci fi space opera of a starship's mission of stopping the Endless Kings.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
TnTComic at 8:19AM, Dec. 21, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
TnTComic
Why don't you tell us all why rape shouldn't be a crime again.

Why don't you try to make an effort to stay on topic.

You are a greedy, self centered bastard who wants to go to the grave with all his precious organs intact. You claim to respect all life but you have no interest in helping doctors save lives with your slightly used organs. You claim as your excuse to fear that you will be seen as an batch of organs instead of as a patient. But the nice man at the Mayo Clinic explains that your organ donor status isn't even discussed until the doctor trying to save your life gives up.

How about something better than an article about a suicide in Colorado to back up your lame excuse for being a hypocrite?

As for the rape thing, I was trying to get people to think a bit outside their box. Obviously most folks are comfortable inside their little boxes and had no interest in taking a peek outside their own views on property and the value of life. Which is further proven by your insistence that your paranoid delusions about organ greedy paramedics are perfectly rational.

No one likes the things you post.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 9:26PM, Dec. 21, 2007
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TnTComic
No one likes the things you post.

Really. You've polled every single person here and not a one of them likes any of my posts?

Gee, that hurts… Right there in the heart…

No…

Lower…

Maybe the liver.

Not there.

Ahh…

Nope, just gas.

Nasty side effect of the antibiotics.

On second thought your comment doesn't bother me one little bit.

You're the paranoid hypocrite who thinks generosity will get him killed. I'm the guy who thinks that people who value property over the life of a thief aren't sociopaths. I'm happier being me than I would be being you.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
TnTComic at 8:28AM, Dec. 23, 2007
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No one likes the things you post.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 1:44PM, Dec. 24, 2007
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TnTComic
No one likes the things you post.

Repeating the lie does not make it true no matter what your ideological forefathers may have said.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM

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