Debate and Discussion

PG13/12A = Family Friendly?
isukun at 11:00PM, Jan. 30, 2010
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It can all too easy to forget that the film industry is a business.

Only partially in the sense that you're talking about here. It is a business and producers have a tenency to want to protect their invesments, but your big budget films tend to rely on the past successes of well known directors and more often than not, they get pretty much free reign to do what they want with a film. If things were strictly business, then studios would be doing more to appeal to the masses than they are now and not simply letting big names piss off their fans. Sure we get some focus groups these days, but for the most part, the film is going to be the director's vision. You also aren't taking into account the indy market which really does focus more on putting a particular person's vision up on the screen.

Nevermind that you could potentially make more money with a G rated movie since you're taping into a larger market…

Actually, you aren't. Films that earn a G rating aren't as common as other types of movies. Even within their own market where they have virtually no competition, the movies tend to be hit or miss in the box office with only the major studios really pulling off the hits. The PG and PG-13 audiences are definitely larger than the G audiences. Don't think that just because something is open to the general public that it is automatically going to appeal to everyone. There is a stigma against films with the G rating which limits their audiences. That's why so many studios shoot for that PG-13 rating these days. It's got enough of the violence, sex and swearing to appeal to the teens, can cover the more mature themes to appeal to the adults, but still sounds tame enough for people to bring their kids along. G rated movies tend to be seen more as the kind of movie you pop into the DVD player to shut the kids up for an hour and a half and a lot of people won't even give them a chance on the virtue of them being “for kids”. They're not “edgy” enough for the teens or “smart” enough for the adults.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
ozoneocean at 1:41AM, Jan. 31, 2010
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isukun
gravekeeper
Nevermind that you could potentially make more money with a G rated movie since you're taping into a larger market…
Actually, you aren't. Films that earn a G rating aren't as common as other types of movies. Even within their own market where they have virtually no competition, the movies tend to be hit or miss in the box office with only the major studios really pulling off the hits. The PG and PG-13 audiences are definitely larger than the G audiences.
Isukun is 100% correct here, that market isn't larger. That's like saying the Wiggles or Sesame street or Barney appeal to everybody of all ages because they're safe for little kids to watch. Or that babyfood can have a wider appeal than steak because it's safe for babies.

There's a reason why kiddy stuff is intended for kiddies. ;)

Anyway, Isukun is right again in that the PG market is the true mass market section that studios aim for. Now if your comment was "Nevermind that you could potentially make more money with a PG rated movie since you're taping into a larger market…" then you'd be accurate. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
Faliat at 5:12PM, Jan. 31, 2010
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Well just because it had a G/U rating doesn't mean it's for kids. Movies are usually rated based on content rather than the target audience.

Pixar's “UP!” is a G/U but adults are raving about it too because of it's story and the fact that it touches on what we may eventually have to experience when we grow old… Albeit slightly more fantastical.

An American Tail entertains kids, but there a whole other level to it when you get older and watch it again.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
isukun at 6:14PM, Jan. 31, 2010
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As I said, your G movies tend to be a mixed bag when it comes to sales. Some do well, but they simply don't have the sales potential of movies with higher ratings. There were five movies which outsold Up in the box office this year, and none of them really have the same level of quality throughout. Avatar kind of shows where the real sales potential is in the industry. It managed to pull in almost twice as much at the box office as Up domestically and almost three times as much globally. Your big sellers tend to be the blockbuster scifi and fantasy films with a few Dreamworks animations mixed in.

Kids aren't really the primary audience for movie theaters and whether an adult enjoys a movie or not, you're still losing a lot of that middle tween and teen audience that makes up so much of the movie-going crowd. And just because there are adults who can appreciate it, that doesn't mean they all do. I know people who won't watch films like Up just on the principle that it's a cartoon. This gets more common with older audiences. People in my parents' generation are far less likely to go out and see a Pixar or Disney movie on their own than people of my generation.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
ozoneocean at 7:59PM, Jan. 31, 2010
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Faliat
Well just because it had a G/U rating doesn't mean it's for kids. Movies are usually rated based on content rather than the target audience.
Yes, but it's harder to make a G film that appeals to everyone, all ages. I think you'll find that while there may be a lot that do, the amount that don't would colossally overwhelm that number.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
Sea_Cow at 3:33PM, Feb. 1, 2010
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There are movies like Extraordinary Measures, which is rated PG, but clearly no adolescents would want to watch an emotionally-driven story about a guy trying to cure his kids' diseases. Then we have movies like Superbad, Youth in Revolt and such that are clearly pointed towards a teenage demographic but rated R.
I am so happy to finally be back home
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:27PM
Faliat at 8:47AM, Feb. 2, 2010
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Another PG example would be Where the Wild Things Are.
Even though it's based on a kids book, the film is noted to be about childhood rather than for children.

The history channel is full of descriptions of cruel and inhumane acts througout history, yet we don't see them happening. So if we see these shows on DVD they will typically be PG.

Wildlife documentaries are the same. You'll be really hard pressed to find anything over PG in that category even though there typically is a lot of blood, gore, death and animals shagging some violently like ducks (Gang rape and necrophelia) or mantids (Decapitation and cannibalism).

My parents left me alone watching this shit when I was toddler yet they jumped in front of the screen at tamer scenes in movies.

Also, one show jumps the gun more than once. Jerry Springer.
Censor out the swears and nudity with blurring and bleeps and it's suitable for pre-safe harbour viewing despite the stuff they're talking about.
Is it educational? No. It's a bunch of people brawling over random stuff that can be summarised in a caption like “My dad and my daughter got married in international waters by a transexual donkey wearing a monacle and now she's pregnant!”

It's brain rot. But it did make a good opera…

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
isukun at 9:16AM, Feb. 2, 2010
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There are movies like Extraordinary Measures, which is rated PG, but clearly no adolescents would want to watch an emotionally-driven story about a guy trying to cure his kids' diseases. Then we have movies like Superbad, Youth in Revolt and such that are clearly pointed towards a teenage demographic but rated R.


The rating isn't the ONLY factor in what people will or won't watch, but it IS a factor. The original argument was that G rated films had the potential to make more money, but sales figues really don't point to that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
The Gravekeeper at 4:12PM, Feb. 2, 2010
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Okay, it seems that the part of my brain that normally distinguishes between theory and application was on vacation the last time I posted. I think what I was going for was that G-rated movies open up a market that higher ratings can't; namely, the young family niche. Most people have enough common sense to not take a 4-year old to most movies, but there are very limited options for movies that actually are appropriate for such young kids.

And yeah, many people will take rating into consideration when they go to see a movie. Ideally this would be on the basis of whether or not the movie has things in it that they'd really rather not see, but for teens and especially tweens that R rating (NC-17) is alluring. They want to go see it because it's supposed to be forbidden for them. Granted, once you get past that, you quickly realize R-rated movies are just as prone to bad writing, bad acting, etc. that movies with lower ratings are.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:14PM
isukun at 4:59PM, Feb. 2, 2010
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The tween and teen market are more attacted to te kind of content in the higher rated films than the rating itself. That's why the PG-13 rated films tend to be more popular than any other rating. They get that rating because they have a tendency to skirt the edge of the PG-13/R categories and deliver enough adult content to attract the more prominent audiences.

Kids films generally have an uphill battle when it comes to getting viewers in theaters. That's not to say there isn't a market for them, but the home video market is much larger than the box office market. Most people prefer not to spend the afternoon at the movie theater watching a kid's movie for the 20th time when they can just pick up a video and the kids are just as happy. That's why a lot of studios simply forego the box office and release kids movies direct to video. Ever since TV came about, the small screen has become the preferred medium for children's films.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
slimredninja at 11:38AM, Feb. 19, 2010
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Its no more crazy then the censorship that goes on here. My comic was rated mature for 3 years and even though Skool Monkee admitted she had read every one of my comics previously and was very familiar with all my work, when I made a comment about censorship here on the Duck in a thread about censorship I was berated and reclassified. The worst part is here on drunk duck if your classified as adult your comics screwed. Anyone coming from outside is directed to a very confusing page with no instructions to help the person find your comic or even letting them know if they sign up they can view it. I went from 7,000 page views a day and 2nd amongst strips and 6th overall in the rankings to barely a 100 page views a day. Its not so much your content as much as it is whether you are liked or disliked by a particular mod. I would warn anyone posting in a censorship/ratings related thread here to tread softly or you may end up in the same boat as me.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:48PM
Hawk at 1:42PM, Feb. 19, 2010
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I promise you, slimredninja, the rating your comic has is based on its content, not any kind of comment you've made in the forum. Nobody here rates a comic out of spite. And your comic is not the issue here, film and the MPAA are.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
Faliat at 10:51AM, March 15, 2010
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There is a way you could fix that, Slim. The strips DO have a website of their own. if you could remove or censor the offending images on here you could still link to the website for those wanting to see the originals.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
Faliat at 3:14AM, July 2, 2010
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Sorry to boot this thread up the (insert metaphor), but I've been pondering this again, recently.

The ratings system that doesn't give us an idea of the content (In my opinion) is telling us what a bunch of opinionated people think about how we should raise our kids and just take their word for it without question.

As a result we are being just as ignorant as parents that buy 18 rated animated movies for their six year old because it's animated. But this time people ARE looking at the rating. But they think that the rating is a solid gold stamp that can't be wrong. And it goes both ways.

There are quite a lot of 15 rated movies suitable for younger viewers if the subjects are put into context by someone responsible or if the worst parts are skipped. But for every one of those movies there is five 15 rated movies that are a bit too mature for even that age group to watch alone. And which ones are they? You don't know.

And the same problem happens with 12 rated movies. Are they just PGs with a cigarette or two in the background, nosebleed, punch, etcetera or are they borderline 15s with death and brutal violence at every turn?

The only movies I see relatively sticking to what's implied on the box are 18s. And that's because it covers a broad spectrum by itself.

The first ever 18 rated movie I bought myself back is mild as hell compared to most 15 rated movies I've seen or owned. It only has one guy getting his eyes ripped out and a few mutilated corpses and zombies as opposed to people shaving off their own diseased skin and shagging like mad rabbits.

And it's not even biased on what year it's from. The two movies I've described scenes from only have a two year difference between their releases.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
Orin J Master at 12:57PM, July 3, 2010
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well at that point you're reaching the point where you're being too detailed to make the rating system easy to use. suffice to say that the rating system i smeant as a broad guideline, not to tell you what's in a film ahead of time.


which is as is should be. parents need to watch movies they're not sure their kids should watch before they let the little bastards see them, plain and simple. there should never be a third party stepping in to take a hand in raising the kids unless it's for proper safety reasons
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
Faliat at 8:17PM, July 3, 2010
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I didn't intend that message to me implied. I know it wouldn't make sense to mention eveything on a ratings chart ont he back. But I was trying to say that ratings are vague and inconsistant.

Parents/guardians can't sit down and pre-watch every movie that comes into the house. Rarely anybody has the time these days. It's why ratings are so vital. So that we can trust the DVDs or BRDs or downloaded formats to not overstep the mark in their absence. And the problem with those ratings is the fact that they are biased in every movie. There are no rigid rules defined what can go where based on what content is heard and seen. It's still very much left down to intepretation.

Is someone being bifurcated by a sword a 15 or 18 based on how much blood there is, if you can see guts or if the victim contorts for a few seconds afterwards?
If it is loosely defined as historical or educational does that make it able to be used in an age rating as low as PG? Things like that need to become more defined and left unable to be bent and let movies slide past the radar just because a certain producer wants a more popular rating.

But there's a problem with that. Because those rules would probably also be biased based on who exactly writes of vites for which rules require what be done.
It would probably be better than barely any regulation at all, though.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
Genejoke at 9:12AM, July 11, 2010
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I don't consider 12A or pg 13 to be family friendly, unless the family has older kids. Some of the stuff that passes for 12A a pretty violent, my wife dragged me to see eclipse the other night and there were five and six year old kids there… WTF?

what sort of parent would take kids of that age to see that? I mean it's shit.
No seriously, it ain't for young kids you see heads getting twisted off and stuff just because there is little blood doesn't make it okay for a five year old.

Granted I first saw american werewolf in london when I was six but that was my sisters fault, nothing to do with my parents.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:33PM
Faliat at 5:58AM, July 16, 2010
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Less blood is also more realistic… So how the hell does it get a lesser rating?

In the same vein as Gene, ehen my family went out to a midnight showing of the second Pirates of the Carribean movie, there were kids crying at the end when Jack got eaten by the Kracken. Looked about four or 5.
And these were Glaswegian kids. Their peers burn down houses for fun.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM

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