Debate and Discussion

pirating pc games
subcultured at 3:01PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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You can begin to see how this is affecting the pc games industry. more and more developers are going to the console market and ignoring pc or putting out lazy ports. Don't the pirates wanna play great games? it's not like the movie industry with $8 a ticket….the games are $50 and takes a long time to create. it is only a niche in the entertainment industry.profits should be going to develop better games, but if you take that away a good studio is gonna turn to consoles.

I'm specifically talking about PC games because it's one of the most prolific types of games that is pirated. Easier to upload and crack that's why i gotta save my instruction books so i can reinstall a game.

it's a shame, i was thinking that this would be the future of entertainment…a reactive entertainment. but pirates are ruining it and future stellar games.

support the industry and buy your games.

J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
subcultured at 3:03PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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oh yea i forgot to add that it's probably part of the reason why assassin's creed is not coming out for the pc this year. they are however releasing ps3 and xbox versions. probably because they don't want pirated versions floating around the net before the street date.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
Aurora Moon at 3:25PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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Hmm. I'd definely have to agree with you.

I mean, it's one thing to download an pirated game of an VERY OLD game that isn't being sold anymore (or not as much as in circulation anymore). This I've done when I found that I couldn't buy those games anymore and wanted to relieve some of my childhood. I did this for games like “The dig”, and other point and click games.

But it's another thing completely to be a cheap-stake just because you don't want to pay like 20 dollars for an expansion to one of your fave games or something. I mean honestly… 20 to even 30 dollars isn't that much money. it helps your favorite game developers stay on their feet, so that they can CONTINUE TO MAKE NEW AWESOME GAMES FOR YOU GUYS.

And other plus about buying CD'S or other game software– if it goes bad and or screws up your PC, then at least you can get YOUR MONEY BACK or hold a group of people responsible.
With pirate cracks on the net… you can't exactly expect some random anonymous people to compensate for their faulty pirated stuff screwing up your computer. And worse of all, you can't go marching into some place where they may be and tell them about how much they suck and you hold them responsible for releasing faulty stuff.

Oh yeah, that's the thing about pirated stuff… some of it is highly questionable, and sometimes will even have hidden viruses and stuff along with the software. Or they'll do a compete rick roll and give you something else than what you wanted.

With downloading pirated stuff, you have to be really careful and might never get what you wanted.

in stores with the real thing–you never have to worry about any of that.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
kyupol at 3:50PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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I agree that pirating pc games is wrong.


Though I also kinda sympathize with the people who live in countries that do not earn in dollars.

If a game is $50… convert that to PhP (philippine peso) it would be about PhP 2500.

And PhP 2500 is the weekly salary of a low wage earner over there.

While an owner of a pirated game cannot play online, it still wont stop them from playing single player or playing on LAN.

That is why original games should have their prices drop in other countries.


Just my opinion.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
ozoneocean at 4:13PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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It's not a niche market… Games makes as much if not more than many movies these days, and cost less to make.

The games industry has always lived with piracy from the very beginning, I don't see why they should be having any more trouble now that they haven't always had…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
ShadowDion at 5:41PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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i would like to give another side a voice, but in honesty, i can't. i can't defend people who pirate because really there is not a legimate reason to. it would be one thing to steal food because you were starving, or even steal from the rich to give to the poor like robin hood. really i can't simpathize with pirates, but i don't know how much i really feel bad for the faceless coporations making the games either.
i honestly wonder how much the actual production cost of a single game would be, and how much they bump up the price. i would say some of the graphics for PS3 are well worth $50 or more, but the absolute drivel of Guitar Hero could not be worth more than $10. those are of course both console games, but i hope you get my point.
i don't feel it is appropriate to pirate a game, but all the same, some i feel are way overpriced to the actual value of them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:32PM
Hawk at 7:35PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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I would like to argue one point of the argument… Piracy isn't the primary reason developers are directing more of their attention toward consoles. Developing for the PC is tricky because of the wide array of computer systems people own. Considerations must be made for varying CPUs and video cards. Then there's the fact that the PC doesn't have a standard gamepad other than the mouse and keyboard, so developers can't even be sure players will have a gamepad. Because of this, PC games require a lot more work and a system of patches, where the console version is much easier to plan for and support. Piracy does contribute to the decision to go console, though.

Luckily, PC developers have options, and Steam is a good one. Steam is an application you install… Let's just say it's like iTunes for games. A player's game license runs through Steam online to verify, so it's not very easy to pirate Steam-based games. Plus, you don't have to go to the store to buy your game because it's digitally distributed. Best of all, I can install a game at home and install that same game on my PC at work so long as I sign into Steam with the same username.

Pirates do hurt the industry, but I think clever developers can stay one step ahead of them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Ronson at 7:55PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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Piracy is wrong, wrong, wronginstein. Plus, it's getting easier and easier for them to catch people doing it and pressing charges. So don't do it, if for no other reason than because the corporations have the law on their side.

(Though once, the supplying of entertainment - in stories or in song - were supplied by local amateurs or wandring minstrels, who dealt directly with their customers. Then someone without talent figured out a way of building a business around those who have it…and the entertainment industry is born. So who is really stealing from whom?)

The problem of cost for corporations is one of their own doing. If a games company was just in the business of making a tiny profit over the expense of game creation then games would probably have always been affordable enough the the majority of us would have just bought them as they came out … or have been willing to wait until they became second run or whatever.

But instead, corporations have to charge an excessively high amount for their product because they have to pay the CEOs of the company a good buck and because they have to create a large enough profit margin for the big box stores that stock their games. I have never heard an adequate explanation for why a CEO in the entertainment industry should make more than the folks actually creating the content, but I think it boils down to “because they can”.

The same is true for music and movies. If you shave away the distribution network (a definite possibility these days), they could easily reduce their costs to something approaching sanity.

For the life of me I don't get why online music sellers are charging somewhere around $1 per song. How much of that is the host's cut? How much is the producer's cut? And how does that compare to their expenses vs. the way it used to be done? I find it hard to believe that it even comes close.

The thing with online sales is that there the independent seller can be king. Especially music and video creators, but also software developers. For an extremely reasonable price, these independent creators are supplying their stuff directly from them to their customers and are bypassing the once necessary distribution chain.

…but I guess that's why they're trying to kill net neutrality. So the corporations can have everyone by the short hairs again.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
ozoneocean at 7:55PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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Hawk
Pirates do hurt the industry, but I think clever developers can stay one step ahead of them.
Well, I don't know if they always can, but the trouble has always been there. I remember being horrified when I learned that a friend was part of the biggest game pricey ring in the southern hemisphere… And that was back in the 80's, copying off tapes and 5 inch floppies! lol!
They did get busted though.

Maybe it's factored into the price but i seriously fricken doubt it! Games have ALWAYS been expensive compared to other media. If anything they've gotten a little cheaper (comparatively). And as Hawk says; making console games is easier, especially so when the console market is as large as it is now! Back to the price thing though; older games are sold even cheaper when they go “gold” and such, and those are the ones that are easier to pirate, so I suppose piracy doesn't increase the price but lower it in that case: because WHY would you bother risking getting some buggy, corrupted half downloaded badly hacked game that probably comes with viruses as well, when the real thing in nice packaging and on a clean shiny disk only costs $20?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
subcultured at 8:42PM, Nov. 7, 2007
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Someone
The games industry has always lived with piracy from the very beginning, I don't see why they should be having any more trouble now that they haven't always had…

now it's actually picking up because of the fast connection speeds and the cheap memory…so that worries me that pirates are hurting the quality future games. making a game is prolly the same as making a small budget movie that costs millions.

games today have original varied music with orchestras, motion capture, many artists (texture, models, voice actors). if you take 8 dollars away from a movie it won't hurt as much because of the amount of people that watch it, but games aren't as popular as movies. 50 dollars would hurt more.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
StaceyMontgomery at 7:54AM, Nov. 8, 2007
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I've worked as a computer game designer, so I have no sympathy for pirates…

but having said that - it's also true that you cannot pretend that a new medium works like an old medium. Game companies are too obsessed with the idea that games should be sold like books used to be sold. The truth is, games are too easy to pirate, and always will be. The companies need to move over to new business models. The answer isn't to “crack down” and make games hard to use with complex DRMs - as usual, the answer is to be more creative.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Fuzzy Modem at 7:04PM, Nov. 8, 2007
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Uh… console games are arguably easier to pirate than PC games… I can't rent PC games at blockbuster, rip them and return them.

Personally I pirate a LOT of games and movies, but guess what? If I like it I go out and buy it. I respect the artist, but only after they've earned my respect.

A perfect example is the movie “Children of Men.” I watched a gold copy HD rip the day before it came out and loved it so much I went to the theater the next day. I also bought the DVD it as soon as it hit shelves. This is a movie I might never have heard of if a buddy of mine hadn't downloaded it.

A counter example is “Pirates of the Caribbean.” I watched “Dead Man's Chest” in theaters and was so disappointed that I downloaded “At Worlds End,” which was even worse. I'm very glad I didn't waste my $9 a second time.


I've given up following my dreams. I just asked where they're going and I'm gonna meet them there.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:32PM
bbr at 1:21AM, Nov. 9, 2007
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Yarrrr ! Some games are simply not worth paying for. Yarr !

Such as pretty much anything EA made Yarr !


The best games model currently is online gaming, you pay to play,
while the box is nearly free, or comes with a 1 month subscription.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:15AM
Poke Alster at 10:22AM, Nov. 9, 2007
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Well, if the prices wernt so high people wouldnt need to PIRATE pc games or any other platform games
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
subcultured at 10:42AM, Nov. 9, 2007
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the price is high because of the development costs.
and like i said it's not as popular as movies, so the price has to remain high so they can make a profit.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
Poke Alster at 10:45AM, Nov. 9, 2007
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Ye i totally understand because of movies, pc games are high, because of pc games some other stuff are high, they must be a way to stop this though?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
Fuzzy Modem at 11:15AM, Nov. 9, 2007
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Poke Alster
they must be a way to stop this though?

Good luck defeating human ingenuity :p

Remember, on the internet, what one knows we all know. The internet is like a communal brain. We only need to know which synapse to fire.


I've given up following my dreams. I just asked where they're going and I'm gonna meet them there.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:32PM
Poke Alster at 11:20AM, Nov. 9, 2007
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Excuse me whilst i go and defeat human ingenuity :D
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
subcultured at 11:48AM, Nov. 9, 2007
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it's economics and it's the basis of our society…to stop it is to see civilization fall.
a fee for a service. a service for a fee.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
Poke Alster at 2:53PM, Nov. 9, 2007
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yep i agree but surely the government see this?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
ozoneocean at 1:32AM, Nov. 10, 2007
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subcultured
and like i said it's not as popular as movies,
Really? Apparently it's pretty much the same these days… And in some cases more profitable than movies, which are on the decline in profitability while games are growing more and more…

In fact, this entire discussion seems to be based on looking at things the wrong way. We should really be wondering at the failure of movies because of DVD sales and piracy rather than games, which are taking over as the main form of entertainment. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:28PM
mlai at 4:39AM, Nov. 10, 2007
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I hardy har har lots of movies/shows but surprisingly I've never hardy har har'ed a single game in my life (none that I can recall).

- I don't want viruses.
- I want something that works “out of the box.”
- A good game is several gigabytes.
- I want to be able to play online or get patches without triggering some sort of alarm and getting banned.
- I like the game box and the game manual/goodies. Unlike a movie, I consider these print peripherals to be part of the game.
- Bargain bins are so cheap/good value, sometimes it practically feels like hardy har har.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Hawk at 1:46AM, Nov. 11, 2007
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Hey do you guys remember the old piracy prevention methods back when computer games started picking up? I remember having to find the fourth word on the 12th page of the instruction booklet to start the game, or arranging words on a circular code wheel. My friend had Ultima, which came with a cloth map from which you would name a town at a specific coordinate.

That was kind of irritating, now that I think about it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Poke Alster at 9:36AM, Nov. 11, 2007
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i think thats why they stopped it, but they are starting to bring that back i hear
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
bbr at 4:15AM, Nov. 13, 2007
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Stuff is expensive, some people buy it because the price is reasonable.
Some people with less money available, dont.

Guy selling his stuff notices some people not buying it, and claims he's losing money off this.
Guy comes up with excuse to make stuff more expensive to compensate.

More people then think this stuff is to expensive, and don't buy it.

Its a unending circle.

-

As for the anti piracy stuff in games.
That crap hasn't worked since it was started.
You can only have so many options, and anyone who actually does own the game can make a list and post it for all to see.
Or just crack it :)
It's more annoying than actually useful in preventing piracy.

Online verification is the only thing i can see that actually works to some degree.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:15AM
FoxmanZEO at 9:31PM, Nov. 13, 2007
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While I don't see much of a point of adding my own opinions, meaning adding another post of, “Um hello, why would you?”
I'd like to share the views a brain atrophied stoner shared with me, quite some time ago.

His general opinion was that all art should be free, as it's akin to water and air. Art, as something that enriches the mind and stimulates the soul more than the real world (as we see it) can, shouldn't be restricted by personal greed and the corporate drive for more of everything. Art separates us from the animals, as we're the only creatures that can benefit from it. Or something to that effect.

Being young, and stupider than a bag of dry stones, my reaction is hardly worth remembering.

(He considered, video games, music, books, and movies as art. Funnily enough, he also believed that television was a drain on society.)
'Who must do the hard things?

He who can.'


-Confucius.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:30PM
subcultured at 4:35PM, Nov. 14, 2007
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you can have free water and air, but it's gonna be filled with microbes and shit.
really… a deer just shit upstream of you and you just drank free deer crap and water.

that's just ridiculous…you can't produce art when you're starving and can't move the brush. you think all those coders and modelers gonna do it for free and still put out a good game?

without corporations you won't have an assembly line, or the resources to produce great quantities of products. i know some corporations abuse people (apple), but without an accumulation of people under a goal…their would be great economic and food shortage.

corporations pay for research to make a product better so they can outsell others. that's why we went from vinyl records to mp3's.

personal greed? it's called society. humans have dominated the world because they are a community. they work well together. when a person dies another person weeps for that person. that's instinct, because their exists a link between us to combine our effort for a goal.

we perform a service (working) to gain a service (buying food).

specialization of labor is also a key component of human society.
with specialization human society becomes more innovative.
instead of some people hunting all the time for their own food, they are able to pay the hunters for meat while they create a better hunting tool or shelter.

only a person who is a derelict would say everything should be free.
a person feeding off the crumbs of society.
if he wasn't living in a well to do country, he would be dead already or actually stop being stoned all the time and get his act together.

J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 8:53PM, Nov. 14, 2007
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mlai
I hardy har har lots of movies/shows but surprisingly I've never hardy har har'ed a single game in my life (none that I can recall).

I agree, I've tried “har haring” a few games but every time they either don't install right or without the manual I can't figure out things well enough to play them.

Maybe that's the secret to cutting down on piracy. Make the games so complex and intense that you need the schwag that's in the box to make it a worthwile experience. Then you could buy the games for $50 or the schwag bag for $40 and hope the downlaod is virus free and fucntional… Most folks would then buy the whole box and be happy.

But if a game company makes yet another lame first person shooter with a pointless schwag bag they would deserve to loose sales to downloads.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
imshard at 6:35AM, Nov. 15, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
But if a game company makes yet another lame first person shooter with a pointless schwag bag they would deserve to loose sales to downloads.

That doesn't change the fact that it cost your favorite game studio millions to produce that lame shooter. As well even if you and a thousand other people consider a game lame you ruin the profit margin and chance of a sequel that people would like, or funding for a game project that you would like. Not to mention that there is always a contingent of people who do like that “lame shooter”. Just because you don't like a particular game or even the company that makes it, you don't have the right to steal.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:57PM
Knuckles at 7:24AM, Nov. 15, 2007
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It's a neverending battle.
If it's electrical and/or has some sort of computerized parts in it, it can be hacked into in some fashion.

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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:19PM

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