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Pixar's "UP"
Splash Damage at 2:48PM, June 5, 2009
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Ehh…I can't say I agree with the initial opinions of this movie. It was a good movie, yeah, but it was probably the worst of the 10 disney/pixar movies.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:54PM
lastcall at 7:19PM, June 5, 2009
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korosu
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Hawk, that is an awesome comic you found there. I love it! lol!
Am I missing something? I don't see a comic there… >_>

The big “Pixar/Dreamworks” comic he posted halfway down the first page. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:28PM
korosu at 6:38AM, June 6, 2009
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lastcall
The big “Pixar/Dreamworks” comic he posted halfway down the first page. :)
Ah, I see it now… It wasn't showing up on the other computer I was using for some reason.

And that comic is SO true, BTW! I always thought that DreamWorks' CGI movies were hit-and-misses…mostly misses. Shrek (the first) and Kung-Fu Panda are the only ones that I would actually call “good”. Madagascar 1 & 2 were entertaining and had some fun characters, but that's it. I don't know what happened when they went from traditional animation to CGI, because I absolutely love The Prince of Egypt and The Road to EL Dorado. DreamWorks definitely lost something during that transition, and it's a real shame.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:21PM
Warpedwenger at 8:39AM, June 6, 2009
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Prince of Egypt and Road to El Dorado were much better movies but Dreamworks was still emulating what was popular in family films at the time. They've never done anything original.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:47PM
ozoneocean at 9:04AM, June 6, 2009
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Warpedwenger
They've never done anything original.
I do remember though that Dreamwoks “Antz” came out before Pixar's “a bug's life”. Not long before, but before. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
isukun at 10:59AM, June 6, 2009
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If you are great people will try to emulate you or otherwise capitalize on your success.

Including yourself, as is evidenced by Up. It's about as cookie cutter as a Pixar film gets. I guess when you're “great” you can reuse all your old ideas and simply ride on your old successes. Up is the same basic story we've seen in every non-Brad Bird Pixar movie. Now they're taking that mentality a step further and preparing and onslaught of sequels.

It would only be retarded to discredit Pixar if they weren't guity of the same offense. The cookie cutter companies are simply copying the same business model Pixar uses themselves.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
lastcall at 11:15AM, June 6, 2009
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isukun
It's about as cookie cutter as a Pixar film gets. I guess when you're “great” you can reuse all your old ideas and simply ride on your old successes.

I'm still standing by my “if it ain't broke, don't fix it” theory. People enjoy Pixar films/stories, and those stories make money, so there's no point in changing a successful formula.

For example, when a great musician that is making a lot of money decides to “reinvent” his singing (*cough* Sting *cough*), it basically spells doom for the guy. People lose interest because his new style isn't what they have enjoyed all those years.

Pixar has found a successful formula. I think they are wise to stick with it. I also think their ideas are unique and unlike anything else out there. …Just my humble opinion. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:28PM
Hawk at 11:17AM, June 6, 2009
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ozoneocean
I do remember though that Dreamwoks “Antz” came out before Pixar's “a bug's life”. Not long before, but before. :)

When Katzenberg left Disney with a group of other employees, they knew what Disney and Pixar had in the pipeline for years down the road. That's how we've had all these Pixar/Dreamworks parallels. Antz was merely a matter of beating Pixar to the theaters.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Dark Pascual at 11:38PM, June 6, 2009
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I have to admit that I liked “A Bug's Life” a lot more than “Antz”. Maybe because it was a(probably unintentional, IDK) tribute to “7 Samurais”…

Some will say that is not matter anymore of what story you want to tell, but how you want to tell it, because, at the end of the day, there is nothing new under the sun…
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:07PM
ozoneocean at 2:06AM, June 7, 2009
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Hawk
When Katzenberg left Disney with a group of other employees…
Excuses! First is first. :P
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
skoolmunkee at 3:11AM, June 7, 2009
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Sooooooo when is Pixar gonna do a movie about a girl? That's the only thing that disappoints me about them. All their main characters are guys.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:42PM
ozoneocean at 4:09AM, June 7, 2009
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I'm pretty sure WALL-E didn't have a penis… :P

…But yeah, it'd make a nice change. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
Warpedwenger at 9:50AM, June 7, 2009
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isukun
It would only be retarded to discredit Pixar if they weren't guity of the same offense. The cookie cutter companies are simply copying the same business model Pixar uses themselves.

OK an old man turns his house into an airship with balloons to honor his dead wife's dream of going to South America. If you can honestly say that plot isn't original than I will know for sure that you are full of crap and only say stuff to be contrary to everybody else. The movie was predictable at times but can you name a family film that isn't? That's not really point. That's why the Coen's make R-rated movies. The first 30 minutes of UP is such an emotional rollar coaster ride to deny that it is great storytelling only tells me that you are less human than everybody else in this thread.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:47PM
korosu at 10:58AM, June 7, 2009
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isukun
Including yourself, as is evidenced by Up. It's about as cookie cutter as a Pixar film gets. I guess when you're “great” you can reuse all your old ideas and simply ride on your old successes. Up is the same basic story we've seen in every non-Brad Bird Pixar movie. Now they're taking that mentality a step further and preparing and onslaught of sequels.
Esqueeze me? Now just how is Up (or most of Pixar's movies, for that matter) “cookie-cutter”? However, I do agree that the sequels move is probably a bad idea… Toy Story 2 was actually a really good sequel, and I don't have any doubt that the third one will be good as well, but Cars 2? Yeeahh…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:21PM
Inkmonkey at 7:15AM, June 8, 2009
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Dark Pascual
Some will say that is not matter anymore of what story you want to tell, but how you want to tell it, because, at the end of the day, there is nothing new under the sun…

I agree with this sentiment. Of course the idea “character suffers tragedy and through it becomes hostile, then through adversity overcomes his loss and becomes more personable” has been done before. It all just depends on how far back you take your nitpicking. Every story ever can be boiled down to “Protagonist faces challenges”. There you go. Now every story ever is insipid, cookie-cutter uninspired tripe. Boo freaking hoo.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
isukun at 1:47PM, June 9, 2009
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For example, when a great musician that is making a lot of money decides to “reinvent” his singing (*cough* Sting *cough*), it basically spells doom for the guy.

The music analogy doesn't work with movies. Eventually people get tired of the same old thing over and over again. The only reason Pixar has gotten this far is because they at least had the good sense to break up some of their cookie-cutter material with more original titles like the Incredibles and Ratatouille. Just by that alone, I would have to say that even Pixar knows enough not to rely on the “if it ain't broke, don't fix it” mentality. Anything in excess is bad. Most of your other major animation houses have found this out the hard way.

OK an old man turns his house into an airship with balloons to honor his dead wife's dream of going to South America. If you can honestly say that plot isn't original than I will know for sure that you are full of crap and only say stuff to be contrary to everybody else.

Those are just minor details. The fundamental structure of the story is the same. All of the major characters have perfect parallels in every other Pixar movie. The story plays out the same way, the act structure is the same. That's like taking a toy, painting it a different color and claiming it's a new and unique toy.

The first 30 minutes of UP is such an emotional rollar coaster ride to deny that it is great storytelling only tells me that you are less human than everybody else in this thread.

There is a difference between a film being cookie cutter and a film being just plain bad. As I stated in my first post, “It was good for what it was”. I just don't think the movie was the greatest thing since sliced bread that some of the other posters do and I don't think that Pixar's particular approach to the industry is healthy for them or the industry as a whole.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
mlai at 4:30AM, June 10, 2009
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I haven't seen this movie yet, but I have seen all the others, including Ratatouille and Incredibles. Pray tell how is Ratatouille/Incredibles so “original”, while Up is so “cookie cutter”?

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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Inkmonkey at 8:29AM, June 10, 2009
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mlai
I haven't seen this movie yet, but I have seen all the others, including Ratatouille and Incredibles. Pray tell how is Ratatouille/Incredibles so “original”, while Up is so “cookie cutter”?

Ratatouille is the story of a rat facing strong opposition as he works to achieve his lifelong dream. Incredibles, meanwhile, is about a Superhero who faces strong opposition as he works to achieve his lifelong dream. Up is much more cookie cutter, because it's about an old man who faces strong opposition to achieve his wife's lifelong dream, which is a much more common plot device.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
TheMidge28 at 5:02PM, June 10, 2009
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Inkmonkey
mlai
I haven't seen this movie yet, but I have seen all the others, including Ratatouille and Incredibles. Pray tell how is Ratatouille/Incredibles so “original”, while Up is so “cookie cutter”?

Ratatouille is the story of a rat facing strong opposition as he works to achieve his lifelong dream. Incredibles, meanwhile, is about a Superhero who faces strong opposition as he works to achieve his lifelong dream. Up is much more cookie cutter, because it's about an old man who faces strong opposition to achieve his wife's lifelong dream, which is a much more common plot device.

oh so its like a Mad Lib?
by that account all stories, be it in any media, are cookie cutter, because in essence most stories have opposition and resolution.
This has reflections of the discussion if anything is original.
Everything has reflections and elements of what came before.

I think what makes any, not all Pixar films “original” or “different”is the way they tell the story.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:25PM
HippieVan at 5:04PM, June 10, 2009
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Saw Up yesterday, and I really liked it. The beginning and end both had me crying pretty hard(I was glad I was there with my dad and not someone who I'd be embarassed in front of) and laughing pretty good in-between. The story was really nice, and while the characters didn't have the most original personalities, they were still likeable and moved it along well.

I'm not sure what was so great and creative about Ratatouille. I didn't like it very much, seemed just like the others.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:49PM
Dark Pascual at 8:27PM, June 10, 2009
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How original is a concept or a basic idea isn't that important as being creative and smart in how you gonna tell that idea.

You can come up with the most original idea in the world, but if you cant develope in an interesting way, it's gonna sunk…

I think that the how is more important than the what, because, as many of you have said, all plots can be sumarize into a single concept. Hell, the entire purpose of Tvtropes.org is basically list every single core idea and concept used in storytelling.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:07PM
isukun at 1:36AM, June 11, 2009
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Up is much more cookie cutter, because it's about an old man who faces strong opposition to achieve his wife's lifelong dream, which is a much more common plot device.

Only externally. Up still follows the basic Pixar story structure. Main character suffers a loss. This results in some character flaw or issue. Main character meets or is involved with a contrary secondary character or group of characters. Conflict arises, usually in the course of some adventure and the two separate. The main character has their realization, resolves their issue and saves the day. Mismatched characters become close(r) friends. Rinse, repeat.

As theMidge28 put it, it's mad libs.

As for the other two examples. Ratatouille does show a character against severe odds trying to live out his lifelong dream. That isn't the major plot in the Incredibles, however, where the priorities of the main character change partway through the film.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
Hawk at 8:37AM, June 11, 2009
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isukun
Only externally. Up still follows the basic Pixar story structure. Main character suffers a loss. This results in some character flaw or issue. Main character meets or is involved with a contrary secondary character or group of characters. Conflict arises, usually in the course of some adventure and the two separate. The main character has their realization, resolves their issue and saves the day. Mismatched characters become close(r) friends. Rinse, repeat.

That perfectly describes The Incredibles, one of the movies you seem to think is above Pixar's “formula”.

I'd never put down The Incredibles since it's my favorite movie, but it just shows that you're mostly trying to be contrary as usual, with no real substance to back yourself up. But I sense there's a bit of jealousy behind this, too.

The same goes with your assertion that Pixar is somehow hurting the industry by setting the bar high. My sources in the industry tell me that each time Pixar creates a successful film, investors pump even more money into the animation industry to get in on the action (especially into studios that are not Pixar). In fact, plenty of the new upstart animation studios are subsisting off of money invested over excitement generated from Pixar's movies. So it's quite the opposite of Pixar “scaring” people away from the box offices. Competition from Pixar has only grown. Conversely, it's the poorly-made and poorly-performing movies like Delgo and Battle For Terra than convince investors to hold back… films that, by the way, still exist despite the fact that Pixar's such a hard act to follow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
isukun at 11:16AM, June 18, 2009
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That perfectly describes The Incredibles, one of the movies you seem to think is above Pixar's “formula”.

Not really. Pixar's formula films always end up with the main character letting go. The contrary character(s) is static and unchanging usually representing a more reasonable outlook. In the Incredibles there is a compromise. The main character never truly lets go and the contrary character compromises on her views at the end.

The same goes with your assertion that Pixar is somehow hurting the industry by setting the bar high.

Actually, I was trying to say the opposite. They are hurting the industy, but not by setting the bar high.

Also, I don't know where you get your info from, but a simple count seems to suggest the number of feature films has actually gone down some in recent years with the majority of movies coming out of two or three studios every year. Also, major studios dumping money into smaller studios to take the risks isn't a step forward when a lot of those larger studios used to take the risks themselves just ten years back.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM

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