Debate and Discussion

please don't hate me. . .
silver fox_104 at 9:51AM, Dec. 10, 2008
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Okay, this is kinda weird.

As some of you may know, I plan on creating an anthro comic. The weird thing is, I have hunted in the past. In fact, my favorite game for PS2 is the new Cabela's Big Game Hunter.

Does anybody find this extremely odd? In general, I won't kill an animal unless it's destroying property or causing a problem. The second time I shot a deer, I wounded it and never found it. I was bawling by the end of the hunt. Not all hunters are heartless, you know.

In fact, Bob Kuhn, one of the best painters of wildlife(at least I think he is) participated in many big game hunts in Africa.

Whatever you think. I only ask one thing: no personal attacks, please.
Even if the majority agrees on a stupid idea, it is still a stupid idea!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:37PM
Hawk at 10:40AM, Dec. 10, 2008
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That's not too odd. I really like animals and yet I have hunted.

I think people hunt for different reasons. Some hunt for the sport of it… the idea of “conquering” nature. They may even thrill in the idea of killing a large animal. But others hunt for food. That's why I hunted. And I don't think it's impossible to have a great deal of respect for an animal, even though you're hunting it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Ironscarfs Ghost at 6:51PM, Dec. 10, 2008
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If that deer could have spoken silver fox_104, I wonder what she would have said?
Would she have
I only ask one thing: no personal attacks, please.

Edit: please don't take this as a personal attack, but I would hope that if you shot me for ‘causing a problem’, the judge wouldn't let you off for bawling!

Superedit: how am I supposed to hate you when you have cute fox ears you murderer?

Superduperedit: alright alright, I'll eat your deer; I don't care how you got it.
Er……..boo!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
imshard at 8:27PM, Dec. 10, 2008
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Look hunting and killing prey for food is natural. I wouldn't think you were a good hunter if you didn't have respect for your prey and its sacrifice in giving you and your kin sustenance. I don't hunt or fish as often as I'd like (live in the city, no need for it). When I do I remember to do something at the end that my uncle taught me as a child. Thank the animal and wish it well, then end its suffering if needed. (He's a full blood Cherokee, awesome guy).

If anything your need to hunt affirms your connection to nature. You simply have the role of a predator.
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ozoneocean at 11:44PM, Dec. 10, 2008
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Hunting is an interesting subject, especially when you consider the ethical implications. Imshard said it best: “live in the city, no need for it”

Why does a person hunt? That's probably more important than the hunting itself. Is it for food for yourself? To sell that meat to maintain your livelihood? For animal products for yourself (feathers, fur, leather, horns etc.), or to maintain your livelihood with them? Is it your job, as in a bounty hunter or or someone employed in culling? Or is it just for the fun of it?

That last one is a worry. But who says the people that do it as a job or for food don't also have a lot of fun doing it? Perhaps it's the kind of fun that's important?
-For example on the sorts of sites you see revolting videos there's one circulating that shows a woman shooting a back bear and then her and her partner have sex over it as it dies. This was something I found horrifying and would have seen it as a sort of justice if their dying corpses had been added to that of the bear…

Yes, that's it I suppose: it comes down to the fact that we're humans. We think about things like ethics, we think in terms of “right” and “wrong”, morality, sacrifice etc. The universe doesn't care about those things, nor does the Earth or the animals we hunt, but we as humans DO. If you pretend that those things don't matter, if your prey animal's life/death is nothing but entertainment to you, then you are less than human.

So in essence; hunting is ok, it just depends what you get out of it.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Aurora Moon at 12:59PM, Dec. 11, 2008
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ozoneocean
Hunting is an interesting subject, especially when you consider the ethical implications. Imshard said it best: “live in the city, no need for it”

Why does a person hunt? That's probably more important than the hunting itself. Is it for food for yourself? To sell that meat to maintain your livelihood? For animal products for yourself (feathers, fur, leather, horns etc.), or to maintain your livelihood with them? Is it your job, as in a bounty hunter or or someone employed in culling? Or is it just for the fun of it?

That last one is a worry. But who says the people that do it as a job or for food don't also have a lot of fun doing it? Perhaps it's the kind of fun that's important?
-For example on the sorts of sites you see revolting videos there's one circulating that shows a woman shooting a back bear and then her and her partner have sex over it as it dies. This was something I found horrifying and would have seen it as a sort of justice if their dying corpses had been added to that of the bear…

Yes, that's it I suppose: it comes down to the fact that we're humans. We think about things like ethics, we think in terms of “right” and “wrong”, morality, sacrifice etc. The universe doesn't care about those things, nor does the Earth or the animals we hunt, but we as humans DO. If you pretend that those things don't matter, if your prey animal's life/death is nothing but entertainment to you, then you are less than human.

So in essence; hunting is ok, it just depends what you get out of it.

Well said.

and usually most people who get any kind of pleasure out of shooting animals eventually get bored with just killing only animals… and moves on to humans. it's just plain scary.

However, the people who simply hunt to cull the numbers, to get the meat and fur, etc… they normally don't get pleasure out of it. So for those reasons, it's okay.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Hawk at 1:08PM, Dec. 11, 2008
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Aurora Moon
However, the people who simply hunt to cull the numbers, to get the meat and fur, etc… they normally don't get pleasure out of it. So for those reasons, it's okay.

I'm sure you're thinking of sadistic pleasure though, right? Because my dad hunts for food, but he does enjoy going hunting. He doesn't enjoy it for the wrong reasons, though.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Product Placement at 5:37PM, Dec. 11, 2008
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One of my brother in laws is a big time hunter. Although we don't have deer. But we do have reindeer but he doesn't hunt those. He goes after geese. Every year he goes and kills whole lot of them but he always takes them home to be cooked. Hunting is a sport nowadays since we truly don't need to do it anymore, like you guys said. However I'm ok by it as long as you're not just going out there to kill and then you leave you prey behind. I'd consider that incredibly wasteful and immoral action to hunt just for the sake of killing an animal.

I've never hunted in my live. The closest thing I've done that involves bothering wild animals is when me and my fathers side of the family goes picking eider down. It's this incredibly soft feather that eider ducks pluck from themselves to make nests. They do that because they nest in areas where nothing better can be acquired for nest making. We collect the down from the nests after they lay their eggs and replace it with hey. The ducks don't mind since we replace it with something equally isolating. The down is then sold to make those fluffy downy covers you all like to sleep in.

But hey! I eat meat, and I say that every time you eat meat, you participate in a killing of an animal.
Those were my two cents.
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Aurora Moon at 6:25PM, Dec. 11, 2008
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Aurora Moon
However, the people who simply hunt to cull the numbers, to get the meat and fur, etc… they normally don't get pleasure out of it. So for those reasons, it's okay.

I'm sure you're thinking of sadistic pleasure though, right? Because my dad hunts for food, but he does enjoy going hunting. He doesn't enjoy it for the wrong reasons, though.

hmm, yeah, I suppose. I do think it could be okay for people to go “hey, nice shot!” and such.

but not along the lines of: “omg!! try to shoot it in an place where it won't be killed quickly! I just want to have fun playing with it while it slowly dies! let's see how long it struggles, lol. and in the event that I actually start to get excited from that, will you make love to me?”

THAT, is just plain creepy.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Product Placement at 6:37PM, Dec. 11, 2008
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Aurora Moon
THAT, is just plain creepy.

Boy, you don't say.

A skilled hunter is taught to aim at particular body parts of an animal for the purpose of going for the chest or the head in order to kill it instantly. Anyone mistreating that kind of training in order to make the animal suffer the most shouldn't deserve a gun.
Those were my two cents.
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Hawk at 10:13AM, Dec. 12, 2008
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Yeah, for my dad it's more about being in the woods and having time to think and stuff. Certainly not the joy of killing anything that moves, like those humans in Bambi.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
silver fox_104 at 11:38AM, Dec. 12, 2008
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ozoneocean
That last one is a worry. But who says the people that do it as a job or for food don't also have a lot of fun doing it? Perhaps it's the kind of fun that's important?
-For example on the sorts of sites you see revolting videos there's one circulating that shows a woman shooting a back bear and then her and her partner have sex over it as it dies. This was something I found horrifying and would have seen it as a sort of justice if their dying corpses had been added to that of the bear…


I would never do anything like that, but just about humans in general, weren't we the one species that threw our own members into the Colleseum to watch them kill each other?

I'm just saying, those who would not have attended those blood-sports might have been in the minority then, but nowadays those who don't hunt are the majority. It's become taboo to kill another human being for entertainment, as well as animals. Yet, there are still forms of entertainment involving killing other human beings (ie. Grand Theft Auto)

As for Ironscarfs Ghost; I believe you may have confused me with a slob hunter. A slob hunter is a hunter who has very few morals and does not respect the thoughts and feelings of non-hunters. (ie. Slob hunters go into a diner covered in blood and hold a loud conversation about every gory detail while others try to eat.)

Like I said in my earlier post, I cried when I didn't recover that doe. A slob hunter would have videoed it and put it on Youtube.

When Walt Disney created Bambi, he created a beautiful masterpiece of a cute deer fawn whom lost his mother and became the prince of the forest. Yet, he also created the most sinister villain out of something we know all too well: ourselves.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Even if the majority agrees on a stupid idea, it is still a stupid idea!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:37PM
Ironscarfs Ghost at 2:25PM, Dec. 12, 2008
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Silver fox_104
As for Ironscarfs Ghost; I believe you may have confused me with a slob hunter. A slob hunter is a hunter who has very few morals and does not respect the thoughts and feelings of non-hunters. (ie. Slob hunters go into a diner covered in blood and hold a loud conversation about every gory detail while others try to eat.)

Like I said in my earlier post, I cried when I didn't recover that doe. A slob hunter would have videoed it and put it on Youtube.

My remarks were intended to be ironic, which is why my meaning is always lost to everyone but myself!

What I meant was that I would not personally differentiate between those ‘slob hunters’and someone who kills an animal for damaging their property: both have chosen to take the life of an animal and whether they celebrate the fact or mourn the loss makes no difference to the animal in question. An argument could be made that the ‘slob hunters’ are the less hypocritical of the two, although I would agree that their blood soaked diner exploits are distasteful.

I'm not saying I'm pro or anti hunting, just that having a different moral attitude to the outcome doesn't make any difference, providing you're not killing everything you see just because you enjoy watching things die.

This is not a personal attack! :)

Edit: I just realised I paraphrased Ozone again before reading his post - I am so redundant!
Er……..boo!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
silver fox_104 at 2:24PM, Dec. 15, 2008
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Phew! That's good! For a minute there I thought you were sided with PETA!

Riding the fence isn't so bad, either.
Even if the majority agrees on a stupid idea, it is still a stupid idea!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:37PM
Product Placement at 6:58PM, Dec. 15, 2008
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PETA's ultimate goals is to give all animals the same right as humans. That includes abolishment of slavery. That's right. YOU are not allowed to own pets! And those evil farmers with their sweat shops! Their reign of terror will soon end.

The ultimate irony of it all is that the one of the presidents of PETA has diabetes. What's so funny about that, you say? Oh nothing except the fact that the insulin needed to keep her alive comes from animals, using treatments developed by testing on animals and she's actually told reporters that she doesn't consider herself a hypocrite.
Those were my two cents.
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Hawk at 8:51AM, Dec. 16, 2008
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I wish there was a semi-PETA that pushed to end animal cruelty under more realistic terms…. Because I love steak. And I think the screwball antics of PETA actually harms the legitimacy of animal rights campaigners. Heck, I ate extra turkey this Thanksgiving after PETA got obnoxious earlier this year.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
silver fox_104 at 1:50PM, Dec. 16, 2008
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People
Eating
Tasty
Animals
Even if the majority agrees on a stupid idea, it is still a stupid idea!
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megan_rose at 4:10PM, Dec. 16, 2008
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silver fox_104
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals

Ah, that's what my dad always says. The silly man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:59PM
ozoneocean at 5:31PM, Dec. 16, 2008
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I wish there was a semi-PETA that pushed to end animal cruelty under more realistic terms…. Because I love steak. And I think the screwball antics of PETA actually harms the legitimacy of animal rights campaigners. Heck, I ate extra turkey this Thanksgiving after PETA got obnoxious earlier this year.
There is. We've had that in Australia for a lot longer than those bloody idiots have been around, but considering its name it probably comes from the U.K. originally: The RSPCA- The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Yep, it's been going strong since 1824. And it's still a solid force today. They work with people, industry and government to try and make things better. They're not driven by a bunch of crazies and children who've just gotten into university and decided they don't want to eat meat or wear leather any longer.

The RSPCA can get a bit slack at times, because they've been around so long and they've been somewhat institutionalised, so it does help to have younger, more radical (and often foolish) groups like PETA to shake things up. But they're still a lot more useful and have done more good in their time than PETA ever will.
 
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Sea_Cow at 8:40PM, Dec. 18, 2008
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If you are Christian, Jewish or Muslim, you were created with greater rights than the other species and can therefore do whatever you want to them(except pork, sometimes!)

If you are atheist, it is survival of the fittest and in a basic sense does not matter what animal noms what animal, we are all the same.

If you are a Hindu, enjoy your lettuce!
I am so happy to finally be back home
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:26PM
YingYang Trouble at 1:46PM, Dec. 20, 2008
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Silver fox, it's not that big of a deal if you go hunting for animals with someone else. Just don't aim at the animal directly and I think your friends won't know :p.
On Hunting personally, I think it would be more fairer(and a hell of a lot more interesting) if the hunter tried to take down the deer with his bare hands like they did in Old times.
You know, Before they had…rifles and specialized camoflauge? I say anyone who can catch a deer with their barehands is pretty good at hunting in my book.
(and silver fox, Shooting Virtual wolfs and deers is odd to you, and yet people say that shooting people in games is innocent and just game? Food for thought)
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:53PM
Product Placement at 2:27PM, Dec. 20, 2008
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YingYang Trouble
I think it would be more fairer(and a hell of a lot more interesting) if the hunter tried to take down the deer with his bare hands like they did in Old times.
You know, Before they had…rifles and specialized camoflauge? I say anyone who can catch a deer with their barehands is pretty good at hunting in my book.

Even back then we had bow and arrow. Before that we had spears or at least a very sharp stick.

And back then we hunted in packs and used our superior reasoning and communication capabilities to flank the animal or corner it.

Humans can't do diddly, barehanded against animals their size. We're to slow to catch the fast ones and to fragile to get the ones who defend themselves. The reason is because we used to be some silly tree creatures that ate leaves and berries and silly stuff like that. Up in the treas we didn't need to run, either after prey or from predators. When the environment we lived in changed and forests disappeared we started walking on land, we changed our diet and but in order to do so we needed to even the odds. The only advantage we had was an abnormally big brain and that proved to be a pretty good asset don't you think?
Those were my two cents.
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YingYang Trouble at 2:41PM, Dec. 20, 2008
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I kinda know that human beings had spears and sticks and stuff back then, But that was when it was a NECCESITY.
I am just saying, If hunting is being considered a sport, it should be a ‘contact’ sport. Kinda like football But instead of being tackled by a sweating 250 pound guy, you are going to get PUMMELED by a 200 pound deer(excuse me if I am wrong in my animal weight issues)
Just saying, if hunters can stay alive in this new verson of hunting, I will say that is grand. If not…well, then Hunting is not much of a sport is it?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:53PM
Product Placement at 3:15PM, Dec. 20, 2008
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YingYang Trouble
Hunting is not much of a sport is it?

Yeah… I guess it isn't.
Those were my two cents.
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harkovast at 5:18PM, Dec. 29, 2008
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I think hunting would be more macho if hunters strapped antlers to their heads and took on the deer mano a mano.
Now thats hunting the manly way!

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
BffSatan at 7:58PM, Dec. 29, 2008
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The only true hunt is a hunt for man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
lefarce at 9:22PM, Jan. 3, 2009
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silver fox_104
Okay, this is kinda weird.

As some of you may know, I plan on creating an anthro comic. The weird thing is, I have hunted in the past. In fact, my favorite game for PS2 is the new Cabela's Big Game Hunter.

Does anybody find this extremely odd? In general, I won't kill an animal unless it's destroying property or causing a problem. The second time I shot a deer, I wounded it and never found it. I was bawling by the end of the hunt. Not all hunters are heartless, you know.

In fact, Bob Kuhn, one of the best painters of wildlife(at least I think he is) participated in many big game hunts in Africa.

Whatever you think. I only ask one thing: no personal attacks, please.

Personally I like to look the beast in the eye, get to know them, and then plow my razor sharp teeth into their delectable goodness. The more raw the food, the better.

I havent gone hunting but I think I would enjoy it. Dont let your vice's sully your work.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:33PM
draconia11 at 5:14AM, Jan. 4, 2009
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That's not really all that weird.
I don't really like hunting personally, but around where I live deer are like pests, and I wouldn't exactly miss them is some were to suddenly disappear via being shot by hunters.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:14PM
confusedsoul at 6:41AM, Feb. 28, 2009
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I'm never quite sure about killing animals for pest control. Perhaps it's because I live in an urban area (well, rural urban. You still get Buzzards around now and again) and I don't own live stock that gives me a sentimental view towards hunting animals. I can understand if they pose a threat to the safety of other animals, but population control confuses me.
If the animal is flourishing so well in that environment to the extent that numbers must be controlled to avoid them being detrimental to the eco system, then surely they don't belong in that environment in the first place? Most sutainable eco systems are that way as the animals and plants originated from their and reach a form of balance, and introduced animals disrupt that.

Hmm, I'm rambling.

On a good point though, hunting for food isn't wasteful. If a hunter kills the animal for supplies, then the animal will be used for a useful purpose.

I hate trophy hunting. And people who kill for taxidermy, that really bugs the crap out of me.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:44AM
Orin J Master at 10:01AM, Feb. 28, 2009
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confusedsoul
If the animal is flourishing so well in that environment to the extent that numbers must be controlled to avoid them being detrimental to the eco system, then surely they don't belong in that environment in the first place? Most sutainable eco systems are that way as the animals and plants originated from their and reach a form of balance, and introduced animals disrupt that.

time for a human cull!

also, to the OP: video games are about doing things you can't/won't in reality anyways. i think you might have an entirely different problem if that concerns you
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM

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