Debate and Discussion

Political Correctness needed in illustration?
JillyFoo at 11:15AM, Oct. 18, 2009
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The topic is about dealing with political correctness and artists working with writers.

This year I've been working on a few projects with a writer. Illustrating her poems. One is a all ages fairy poem book.

I have all these fairy illustrations finished and I'm getting to the coloring. Now I have a disagreement with her.

I want to color the fairies different skin colors. Either ethnic colors or other colors like blue, grey, light green, etc. She wants me to color them all Caucasian white.



Around the same topic, on another occurrence she wants me to illustrate a children's story about a kid exploring different lands far away. In one scene she wants me to draw “bandits” with the description of them looking like stereotypical Arabian terrorists which I am all NO no no can't. Not in a children's book.

She looks at me and says “I used to read cowboys and red skinned Indian children books all the time and it didn't bother me.”

The question is: How can I convince her to understand the benefits and consequences of these choices in illustration?
Am I taking this too seriously? Should I go along is one or both of the projects?
Also note that this is for children's books. Children and parents are the target audience.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:08PM
ozoneocean at 11:28AM, Oct. 18, 2009
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Stick to your guns. The illustrations are work that represents YOU publicly. If you don't want your work to say something publicly that you don't agree with, then don't do it that way.

Besides, it is a children's work and children's books really should reflect the common good values of the day. In fact that's the sort of thing publishers look for. Culturally and even commercially you're in the right here. Your writer friend is unfortunately living 20 years in the past.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
isukun at 3:37PM, Oct. 18, 2009
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Are you getting paid for this? If so, then the final look of things really is the author's call. You can bring your concerns to their attention, but if they're adament about a particular look, it isn't very professional to try and force them into something other than their vision.

Plus, it can be hard to judge how PC something is without really knowing the context, so it is hard to say whether you have a point or are over-reacting. I kind of get the feeling that the fairy thing borders more on over-reaction. They are mythical creatures and in particular creatures which originated in European myth. Traditionally fairies have been depicted as caucasian even in popular media. I don't think this is really reinforcing negative racial stereotypes or anything. It's really a matter that you find her decision to stop you from depicting them as multi-cultural as being a sign of racial intollerance, but I don't see why readers would make the same connection just because the fairies are white.

The bandits thing really depends on the context and what she means by “Arabian terrorists” if that's the actual words used to describe them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
mlai at 4:33PM, Oct. 18, 2009
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Fairies: Over-reaction on your part. Like Isukun said, they're an European mythical creature. Would you demand black and Hispanic representation in Norse mythos?

Arabian bandits: Need more details. Does she want the bandits to look like the bandits in Ali Baba & The 40 Thieves? That would be perfectly okay. Does she want them to all look like Osama Bin Laden? That would be a bad idea because then she would be infusing a political statement into children's books. Parents HATE that, and editors would have alarms ringing in their heads.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
lothar at 7:59PM, Oct. 18, 2009
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she sounds like an idiot and a racist ! if she's talking about the red skinned indian stereo type being ok with her. go watch disneys peter pan and tell me the way they depict native americans is not offensive to just about any intelligent person today. do you want something you create to be seen that way in 20 or 30 years ?!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
ozoneocean at 1:14AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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isukun
Are you getting paid for this? If so, then the final look of things really is the author's call. You can bring your concerns to their attention, but if they're adament about a particular look, it isn't very professional to try and force them into something other than their vision.
This isn't correct. As an illustrator of a children's work her name will be ON that work. It is entirely up to HER whether she wishes to do these drawings of not. Nothing could be more professional than to refuse work you don't not wish to be a part off.
The writer can simply go and hire another illustrator who IS willing to put their name to that work. That's what being a professional is about in this context- having a stake in your work.
Jillyfoo is working with the writer not for her (she says). Sounds more like a creative partnership to me.

Anyway, fairies are not Caucasian. Fairies are supposed to be prety well strictly Celtic. But it depends on the origin of the myth and how wide the definitions are… Elves are a different sort of mythical creature, strictly from Scandinavia. Various ground dwelling goblins only come from Germany. Some kinds of forest spirit only come from the Slavic cultures of Eastern Europe.
-All those peoples are quite different types, easily identifiable by any intelligent person who can tell the difference between one thing and another. Maybe Jilly should just make all the fairies look exactly the the nationalities of the people who's myths they are?
isukun
“Arabian terrorists” if that's the actual words used to describe them.
If those are the words, then it's pretty telling.

It's not about “political Correctness”, is really about not being a racialist bigot. It sounds like Jilly and her writer friend need to talk things out a little.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
isukun at 2:13AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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Nothing could be more professional than to refuse work you don't not wish to be a part off.

Refusing work and questioning the author's vision are two different things, though. Yes, the option to turn down work always exists, but if you aren't bankrolling it, yourself, the end product isn't your call. That's the nature of working freelance and it is considered VERY unprofessional if you try to push an idea onto an employer. That's been my experience and the experience of everyone I know in the same field. It's a job, not a way to express yourself artistically.

Jillyfoo is working with the writer not for her (she says). Sounds more like a creative partnership to me.

It didn't sound like it to me from the way she described their relationship, which is why I asked rather than just making assumptions.

Maybe Jilly should just make all the fairies look exactly the the nationalities of the people who's myths they are?

And how would that be any different from what the author was asking for? The Celts, Germanic tribes, Slavic tribes, and Scandinavians are all considered Caucasian.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
ozoneocean at 2:49AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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isukun
That's been my experience and the experience of everyone I know in the same field.
The field you work in and the field she works aren't quite the same thing. As a sole illustrator on something like a children's book, that work represents you professionally in the field- not just the quality and technique but the way the vision is realised etc. In that field those considerations are more important than reputation as a good worker.

And how would that be any different from what the author was asking for?
The point is that “white” is in fact just as “technically” incorrect as making them all different skin tones is assumed to be. ;)

isukun
The Celts, Germanic tribes, Slavic tribes, and Scandinavians are all considered Caucasian.
That's a pseudo racial classification which in reality is a nonsense. And in turn highlights the nonsense of being so strict about making all the fairies “white”. That's a convenient, rather artificial blending of different cultures and peoples with different skin tones, body types, eye shapes, hair colours, cultures…

And if that's ok to do, why isn't it also ok to include some more peoples with even more types of different skin tone, hair colour, and eye shape? ;)

Now, if the story was specifically about some part of Ireland or Wales and these were specific fairy people in a story set in the 1700's of something (for example), well THEN you can see a really valid argument NOT to be diverse in the appearance of the characters.

However, if it's generic fairy stuff, the only issue is an artistic one. Jilly should discuss it with her writer and see if they can come to a compromise. the writer is clearly working off of older pop-cultural assumptions and Jilly is clearly a lot more progressive.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
lothar at 3:01AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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isukun
It's a job, not a way to express yourself artistically.

that's lame! and prolly the reason most modern movies tv shows and everything else is starting to suck more and more
this reminds me of the first project i turned down and why everybody can go to hell ! if you are making things for other peoples order thats not much different than making hamburgers. but if some jackass comes into the place and asks me to make a bacon letuce and dogshit with cheese im not gunna do it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
El Cid at 7:27AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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Personally I think political correctness is a bunch of B.S. It’s something that the hypersensitive thought police use to bludgeon the rest of us into feeling guilty for being normal. It’s intellectually dishonest. So, while I certainly think you have a right and obligation to maintain your artistic integrity, you should also be careful that you’re not yourself intruding on your partner’s free expression in the name of your own activism.

I’d say you’re definitely overreacting on the fairy thing. Yes, it’s possible that there could be black fairies and Eskimo fairies and Australian aboriginal fairies, and you can make up any number of inventive reasons as to why this is, but most people think of fairies as white with translucent skin and light-colored hair. There’s nothing wrong with depicting them this way. Trying to forcefully insert diversity into the picture actually draws more attention to the racial issues than just doing a bunch of glowy traditional Tinkerbells. It’s like doing a black Santa Claus. I’m sure it’s possible, but I think you’re doing more to make race an issue there than you would by just “playing it straight.”

The Arab thing’s a bit touchier. Like mLai said, it all depends on context. If it actually makes sense for them to be Arabs, then you’d be remiss not to use Arabs. It would be very strange to see a coalition of Zulu and Mexican banditos robbing a train in the Arabian Desert. It’s not innately offensive to use a certain type of bad guy, and it’s generally useful to draw on recognizable types when doing fiction, especially brief fiction. The bad guys in the “Iron Man” movie were obviously modeled after the Pashtun Taliban (what most viewers would consider typical “Arab” bad guys), and it worked because audiences could immediately understand what was going on without too much being explained to them. The directors could have just as easily modeled them after the Naxalite rebels in India or Uighur insurgents in China, but nobody would get that unless they put some additional work into explaining what was going on. That draws away from the story.

It doesn’t sound to me like your friend’s trying to be intentionally offensive or exclusive to anyone. If that’s not the case, then you should probably back off. She’s just trying to tell a good story, and you shouldn't use her work as a soap box from which to preach politically correct ideals. She doesn’t have to go for that, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable that people should be able to read a story about fairies without having racial issues shoved in their face.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:20PM
ozoneocean at 8:38AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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El Cid
Personally I think political correctness is a bunch of B.S. It’s something that the hypersensitive thought police use to bludgeon the rest of us into feeling guilty for being normal. It’s intellectually dishonest.
Heh, not really.

The reality of “Political correctness” is a right wing fantasy used to justify their own racial bigotry. It makes them feel like a persecuted minority for holding their own petty little bankrupt views.

Jillyfoo's use of the term is unfortunate, but that doesn't make the existence of limited views and bigotry acceptable. Funny that the use of the term “political correctness” immediately makes people defensive though. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
ipokino at 9:14AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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Fairies…not just your cute caucasian elfs…see pin up here:

http://www.drunkduck.com/Robot_Wars_The_Extras

…cute, but NSFW!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
Dark Pascual at 10:11AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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Personally, I think that the fairy issue is not a big deal. Is more an aesthetic conflict than anything else.

Fairies are mythical creatures so I don't think the skin color makes a big difference.

The other one is way more touchy and requires to really understand what is the point that the author wants to make.

Have in mind that while Arab bandits do exist, they are nothing near terrorists…
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:07PM
Orin J Master at 10:21AM, Oct. 19, 2009
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ignoring the racial thing (which is a red herring here -she's just trying to reinforce her side of the matter that way) i've got to say it's dependant on where the story takes place.

if it's supposed to be somewhere in the desert, than the bandits should have dark skin tones. of course, so should the local fairies. if it's somewhere up in the north, than they should all be paler.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
TheFlyingGreenMonkey at 1:49PM, Oct. 19, 2009
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I'm in agreement with Isukun. Your getting paid to draw what the auther is asking you. If you don't like what they are asking for tell them. Try to reach a compremise. If you can't and still fell like it would be betraying yourself say, “I'm sorry but I feel strongly about this and can't do it.”

I agree with the majority that you are over reacting on the faries. I personally think of them as either white(moonlight), or wierd colors like light green, blue, yellow. This is mainly because of the few fictions I've seen with them in it or cause most everyone on DA does it that way.

As for the bandits I think she is going with what people are considering the “bad guys” right now. I am thinking the kids now-a-days grew up with all the terrist fear mongering. I find this quite sad.

PC is a double edged sword it stops well meaning people from discussing subjects of race. Leaving only the bigets to talk about it opening. I mean there are loads of playwriters and authers who show growwing up in their race household in a unpleasant light and are banned for it.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:18PM
Hawk at 2:37PM, Oct. 19, 2009
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I agree with mlai and isukun, though I understand where Ozone's coming from. I think it's okay to try and influence some decisions for the person you're trying to illustrate for. When you take a job making art, you're usually making art for somebody with less artistic sense than you. Because of that, it's always good to try and steer in a good direction if what they want clashes with your artistic sensibilities.

However, in the end you're working for them. The final decision goes to your client. If you're uncomfortable with illustrating what they want, you walk out. There are plenty of other artists out there for them, and you don't need to bend or break your standards.

I agree with others on the specifics too. Caucasian fairies don't bother me, and more details are required on the Arabian terrorists thing before I can say whether it's racist or not.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:47PM
isukun at 4:44PM, Oct. 19, 2009
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The field you work in and the field she works aren't quite the same thing.

Not that different. I do freelance illustration as well. It's not easy making a living just as an animator. Plus a number of my friends do a lot of freelance work for major publications like Popular Science, Newsweek, and others. They pretty much say the same thing. If you want to get paid, you deliver what the client wants without question. You're always free to refuse the work if it goes against your standards, but some people have a clear vision of what they want and it really isn't your place to tell them they are wrong. You can make a suggestion and if they say no, that's it. Pushing it farther than that is unprofessional. They hired you to make their vision into a reality, not question it every step of the way.

In that field those considerations are more important than reputation as a good worker.

My closest friend out here in LA is a professional illustator and he would definitely say no, that isn't the case. Just like any other creative industry, connections are incredibly important and you don't make good connections by making jobs more difficult. People judge you based on how easy you are to work with and how efficiently you get the job done, not on how well you represent yourself in the work you do for them.

that's lame! and prolly the reason most modern movies tv shows and everything else is starting to suck more and more

Why, because they don't let the staff bicker and waste money bitching about how they think the director is wrong? I think you're missing the point here. The industry has ALWAYS been that way. It's not a new thing. There are the idea people and those who make that idea into a reality. If movies and TV aren't meeting your expectations these days it's because the idea people are lacking in imagination not because they are stifling the artists.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
El Cid at 5:57PM, Oct. 19, 2009
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ozoneocean
The reality of “Political correctness” is a right wing fantasy used to justify their own racial bigotry. It makes them feel like a persecuted minority for holding their own petty little bankrupt views.
Heh, not really. Bill Maher's definitely NOT a right winger and he's been leading the charge against political correctness for years. It's not a righty-lefty issue. Political correctness insists we pretend the short guy isn't short, the fat guy isn't fat, and the foreign guy isn't weird. In its maniacal crusade to negate all the things that make us unique, it perpetuates the very ills it aims to alleviate.

ozoneocean
…Funny that the use of the term “political correctness” immediately makes people defensive though. :)
I didn't notice anyone being defensive, just people calling a writer they don't know an “idiot” and a “racist,” so I'll assume you were just making a general observation? Political correctness may be garbage, but common civility still has its merit.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:20PM
JillyFoo at 2:26PM, Oct. 20, 2009
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Wow… a lot said here.

It's not a job job.. I was commissioned for the fairies gig but not the other story.

We did come to an agreement on making some of the fairies blue and yellow.

The other story might not be worked on. “Bandits” was the description in the writing. “There may be bandits.” We just had a disagreement of what the bandits should look like.

Thank you for your input guys.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:08PM
DAJB at 11:40PM, Oct. 20, 2009
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Insisting on having racially diverse fairies makes no sense at all. Insisting on diversity just for the sake of it is political correctness of the worst kind. Fairies don't exist and so an author is free to give them whatever appearance he chooses - black, white, blue, green or with 97 arms.

I also agree with Isukun: if an artist is being paid for this work, the final call is the writer's. Give your opinions by all means but, if an artist wants to have an equal say in matters like this, he has to be prepared to take an equal financial risk on the eventual success/failure of the project by working as a true (unpaid) collaborator.

Oh, and contrary to some of the other opinions here, I'd say that unless you have an extreme reason for doing so (which would not include a fairy's skin colour!) walking out half-way through a paid assignment is also unprofessional. When you start work on a project, you have a responsibility to everyone else involved. If you simply walk away because you can't get your own way, you really don't deserve to get another commission.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:04PM
ozoneocean at 3:11AM, Oct. 21, 2009
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isukun
Not that different. I do freelance illustration as well. It's not easy making a living just as an animator. Plus a number of my friends do a lot of freelance work for major publications like Popular Science, Newsweek,
Yeah, that's not the same sort of thing.
In a children's book the illustrator is basically a co-creator. That work represents them as much as the author's work. But you and DJAB don't seem to get that?

Ah well, nothing I can do to change that. :)

Look, I do that sort of illustration and graphic design too- I'm paid for the work and I just do it- Just like you;re describing. Picturebooks and illustrated kid's stories are different though.
It's like the difference between a session musician and a guest musician- Like Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin; he stated his carer as a session musician, playing whatever for the money. Doing a great job and going home at the end of the day, doing what he was paid to do and nothing else. After Zeppelin though, he'd also feature as a “guest” musician on other's albums. Basically he still puts in the work and gets paid his fee, but his name is on the credits as well. If the gig was something he didn't like though, he wouldn't do it, and if he wanted to make changes, he'd suggest them.
Not just because he was a big “star” by then, no, the point is that creatively his position was different in that situation as it is for a working illustrator in this situation.

DAJB
s political correctness of the worst kind.
political correctness is a concept that needs to be examined and exploded, not parroted as a little pet example of “all things that are wrong with the world these days! Grumble, grumble”

El Cid
Heh, not really. Bill Maher's definitely NOT a right winger
It doesn't matter, that's who owns the “political correctness” mythology. The fact that others buy into it so strongly just makes the myth all the more popular and saleable.
El Cid
I didn't notice anyone being defensive
Whenever someone brings up the term “political correctness”, certain people see red. And that's what they've done here. If an idea is associated with that term it's the worst, most evil, foul idea imaginable… either that or it's just automatically wrong, because of course all things “politically correct” are evil undermining our once proud culture, and it also follows that most things that are evil are also “politically correct”.
:)

Of course they aren't, but that's the way the mythology goes. It's easy to become caught up in it, so it's understandable that people are, but given the silliness attached to the idea it's best to avoid the term completely and thoroughly examine on a case by case basis all things that are supposedly “politically correct” and examine the motives of all who use it to describe something that way.- are they wilful or just being dopey? ^_^
 
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harkovast at 5:58AM, Oct. 21, 2009
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I think dividing characters in stories along racial lines (all good fairies are white, all bad bandits are Arabs) is a recipe for trouble.
Saying “Oh I didn't mean anything by it” does not make it okay.
Cowboys and Indians shows DID used to make the Indians look bad, and even if they never inspired any hate crimes, it isn't very nice to look at something and see it misrepresenting your people.
I get quite angry at Hollywood movies for constantly shoe horning in British villains into every movie (even when it makes no logical sense.)
While having different racial groups depicted separately is fine (the fairies all come from Europe and are white is fair enough, not everything has to look like a Bennetton Ad) but when you start giving one racial group the role of the villain against the heroic white heroes…well then you have to stop and reconsider.

You see this is why there are no humans in my comic! Too much baggage!
If I have wolf men saying they want to murder and rape people and Bird men dropping racial insults I don't get any angry comments calling me a bigot!

Oh yeah, in response to your particular question-
Only do the work if you feel comfortable with it.
If you don't like the message it sends, don't be attached to it.
But that is a judgement only you can make.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:44PM
lothar at 9:59AM, Oct. 21, 2009
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i never could figure out where the politically correcy line was ?
it seems to have changed in recent years
and now seems to be almost the opposite of what it implies
if you look at the term without its historic baggage it seems that it would be “politically correct” to villify middle eastern peoples , it's “politically correct” to elevate the US flag to godlike status worthy of worship , it's “pollitically correct” to assume american superiority without question ~!
if by “politically correct” you mean - what is OK to do in american public discourse
anyway
it's a stupid term purposely invented to twist reality
just like all the other words

politically correct = wrong think
collateral damage = innocent DEATHs
War on terror = big budget terror campaign
terrorist = enemy of limited means
consumer = unskilled debt slave
public relations = propaganda

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
DAJB at 10:36AM, Oct. 21, 2009
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ozoneocean
DAJB
s political correctness of the worst kind.
political correctness is a concept that needs to be examined and exploded, not parroted as a little pet example of “all things that are wrong with the world these days! Grumble, grumble”
I'd agree that “political correctness” means different things to different people. You clearly think it means treating everyone with equal courtesy and respect. That's an idea that hopefully all sensible people can agree with, but that's not what most people understand by political correctness.

As it's generally used today (and it is almost always used pejoratively!), it tends to mean being forced to do something that flies in the face of common sense for fear of being branded racist, sexist, or some other-ist. That kind of “political correctness” is clearly wrong and should be denounced at every possible opportunity.

To keep the discussion on topic, therefore, trying to argue that imaginary creatures such as fairies should be subject to some arbitrary concept of ethnic diversity has nothing to do with courtesy or respect, and is therefore an example of political correctness (in its negative sense!)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:04PM
SpANG at 10:22AM, Oct. 22, 2009
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El Cid
Political correctness insists we pretend the short guy isn't short, the fat guy isn't fat, and the foreign guy isn't weird. In its maniacal crusade to negate all the things that make us unique, it perpetuates the very ills it aims to alleviate.

How very telling.

“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
isukun at 1:14PM, Oct. 22, 2009
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Ah well, nothing I can do to change that

No, there isn't and it's because it doesn't matter what project you are working on. If someone else is footing the bill, you aren't a cocreator, you are an employee. They make the calls and if they don't like what you've done, it is within their rights to ask you to change it. It's their money, it's their call. As I said before, you have every right to refuse the work and then they can go to whoever's next on their list to get it done instead. Woking on a children's book is NO DIFFERENT than any other artistic job. It is still a business based on connections and people still judge you based on how easy you are to work with and how efficiently you get the job done.

And your example of Jimmy Page IS because he was a big star by then. He has that kind of authority not because his name is in the credits but because he's Jimmy Page. As a celebrity he has to maintain a particular image and the people who invite him on as a guest are expecting that image to help move their band, so they WANT his input. They aren't paying for a guitarist, they're paying for Jimmy Page. That is not at all the same situation that we're talking about here.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
kyupol at 7:05PM, Oct. 22, 2009
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I don't wanna bother with political correctness.

As an author, my characters are gonna look the way I want.

I have a planned project that's more sci-fi in nature. Just imagine combining star wars, naruto, dragon ball z, starship troopers, and all the new agey ufo stuff talked about in coast to coast am and various books.

In it, there's a nuclear war between a black and brown human race… in some planet in some galaxy far far away.

Then there's also this white race with a totalitarian society and a hierarchy of races setup. If you got red hair, you occupy a high position in society. And an even higher position if you have the reptilian blood.

Then there's various groups and races with societies based on various political ideologies and spiritual beliefs.



NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
Night_Mare at 12:14PM, Nov. 30, 2009
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For the faeries, more colors might add to the illustration - make it more interesting.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:17PM
xerjester at 1:28PM, Nov. 30, 2009
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For my part, as a freelance illustrator, I always make sure the clients understand the following before beginning to work with me (i.e. before even one cent changes hands)

1. I reserve the right to turn down/refund on any project based on personal judgment, and will not be party to political messages, racism, or blatant sexual content.

(that last one is simple because I don't draw it well in the slightest and would rather they pay off an artist who can pull it off ;) )

2. Alterations are fine and expected, insofar as they do not violate the agreement. This also includes major additions that require a reworking of the entire piece or complete changes to finished work.

I personally don't think it's unprofessional to stop working in the middle of a project and walk away after refunding if consensus can't be reached. I'll site a less inflammatory example:

I do quite a few World of Warcraft pinups for people's characters. I ask them to send me pictures of their characters in the armor they are wearing or they would like to see them in, complete with weapons. I got into an incident with a person who insisted I change the finished pencils because they suddenly had an armor item drop for them in game and just had to have it seen on their character. I have to explain to them that I draw the pencils on comic board, and once the figure is rendered out, there's very little I can do in the way of changes, let alone drawing in a completely new set of armor without turning the entire thing into a smeared graphite-laden mess.

Given that I did not want to have them pay for a new set of pencil work, I offered to refund their money for the initial project, and no harm done.

Some clients don't know the ins and outs of the process, and while “the customer is always right” M.O. should be followed, a little clarification on your part beforehand about what you will and won't do goes a LONG way in keeping things smooth.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:52PM
ozoneocean at 10:51PM, Nov. 30, 2009
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posts: 25,050
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isukun
No, there isn't and it's because it doesn't matter what project you are working on. If someone else is footing the bill, you aren't a cocreator, you are an employee.
You have limited experience and not much knowledge of copyright. I can't argue with you on that. You only know what you're talking about from a very limited perspective.

It's like telling someone the sky can be black, blue, grey, or any colour at all depending on the time of day, your eyes, atmospheric conditions or even the planet you happen to be on, and them saying “No, it can only be blue!” because they've only ever been awake during the day. lol!

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There is no black and white general rule to cover this area. There are instances, specifics, and variations. In those black and white rules can apply depending on how things are organised, but those of course in no way apply to all situations of creative employment, including the one described at the start of this thread.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM

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