Debate and Discussion

Practical use of the 2nd amendment: Joe Horn
imshard at 6:32PM, Dec. 3, 2007
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Story

Black Panther's march his house

Man shoots home intruders, media blitz ensues.
You decide whether you support and condone his actions, then discuss.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
mapaghimagsik at 2:36PM, Dec. 4, 2007
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Too little data, unfortunately.

I'm waiting for my pocket nuke {TM} to arrive.

What, its covered by the 2nd amendment!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
TnTComic at 5:17AM, Dec. 5, 2007
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Quanell and friends then attempt to move to another street and speak to the media but the crowd follows and chants “USA! USA!” until he and his friends retreat - quickly.


That's hilarious. Straight out of South Park.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
horseboy at 8:43PM, Dec. 5, 2007
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Sounds like a good man to leave your home to while of vacation.
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
Voltaire
Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
ozoneocean at 2:20AM, Dec. 6, 2007
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This is why I hate blogs… We don't need our ideas driven by morons. That guy is a fool.

As for the story, WTF? Shooting people dead for steeling stuff from someone's house? How is that sane? Looks like a nightmare version of the world to me. If that sort of thing was considered legal and acceptable here I'd move to Iraq. I don't need every imbecile on a street corner being judge, jury, and executioner.


Like mapaghimagsik says though, we don't know enough and about the story, but from what we do know, it's insane, it's more than insane; it's scary. And you REALLY should provide more for us to talk about here than two lines and some links. You're the one who wants to make the discussion here, provide us with more of a position to talk about. ;)

Whew, to have that sort of rightwing thought and culture so ingrained that no one comments on that aspect is bizarre to me.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
horseboy at 8:42AM, Dec. 6, 2007
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ozoneocean
Whew, to have that sort of rightwing thought and culture so ingrained that no one comments on that aspect is bizarre to me.
Well, I am from a part of the country that doesn't have cops, because we don't need them, since we handle situations not too differently.

If you're not planning on breaking into people's houses, why is it scary?
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
Voltaire
Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
ozoneocean at 8:54AM, Dec. 6, 2007
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Weeeee-eeeeellll, now it's even MORE terrifying because you'd even ask a question like that.

How would you even know someone was going to, or had broken into a house? It's SO easy to make mistakes about that sort of thing. Condoning this sort of imbecilic, murderous, criminal vigilantism is barbarous!

At the very least, paid police officers receive training and have rules about what they can and can't do in given situations- ev enif they can be just as dangerous, at least there's an effort to put in checks and balances.

I'm sorry, but it's just not ok to murder someone because you think they're steeling. This isn't the dark ages or some wild west fantasy.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
imshard at 8:58AM, Dec. 6, 2007
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Let's put it this way, if somebody breaks into your your house, you don't know them and you're terrified for your life; don't you have a right to drive them out?
That said I never condone murder, man-slaughter or any other form of taking human life.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
horseboy at 9:49AM, Dec. 6, 2007
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ozoneocean
Weeeee-eeeeellll, now it's even MORE terrifying because you'd even ask a question like that.

How would you even know someone was going to, or had broken into a house? It's SO easy to make mistakes about that sort of thing. Condoning this sort of imbecilic, murderous, criminal vigilantism is barbarous!

At the very least, paid police officers receive training and have rules about what they can and can't do in given situations- ev enif they can be just as dangerous, at least there's an effort to put in checks and balances.

I'm sorry, but it's just not ok to murder someone because you think they're steeling. This isn't the dark ages or some wild west fantasy.
Well, stranger, crawling out of my friend's house, carrying his TV. Sources are good he's a thief.
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
Voltaire
Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
ozoneocean at 10:11AM, Dec. 6, 2007
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So even if someone is a thief Horseboy, you think killing them, murder, the death penalty administered by some dick on the side of the road is a good response?

Jebus man, not even Draco, the guy who's pretty much the patron saint of ridiculously harsh penalties wasn't that bad. I mean, even with him not just any fool on the street could deal their own sort of “justice”.

—————–
That being the case, it should then be perfectly fine for someone else to kill you as punishment for murdering the petty thief, and perfectly ok for someone else to kill them for them slaying you and so on… This whole situation is just so totally stupidly illogical and dangerous I begin to suspect mental instability or bellow average intelligence in the minds of its instigators.

I'm not saying you're stupid, because I don't think you're serious, (I hope not), but the blogger fellow and the people he's talking about should be locked away in a padded cell.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
mapaghimagsik at 10:57AM, Dec. 6, 2007
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I can't wait for the death penalty for patent infringement, since that is stealing too.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 1:58PM, Dec. 6, 2007
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ozoneocean
So even if someone is a thief Horseboy, you think killing them, murder, the death penalty administered by some dick on the side of the road is a good response?

What if somoene was raping a woman? If you had a gun would you use it to kill the rapist?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
ozoneocean at 2:21PM, Dec. 6, 2007
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How is being a suspected thief like being a rapist? Thievery is the real world scenario here.

But as to your question, why in the world would you need to kill the person?
Ah questions… :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
imshard at 2:33PM, Dec. 6, 2007
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who said anything about suspected thieves?
We're talking home invasion here. When somebody is attacking your home and safety you have a right to self-defense.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
ozoneocean at 2:38PM, Dec. 6, 2007
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imshard
When somebody is attacking your home and safety you have a right to self-defense.
Nope… In the story, they're not attacking anything. In the story the guy thinks these people are thieves. He thinks they're steeling his neighbour's stuff. ;)

He's never had himself or his property threatened. It's a case of completely unprovoked, cold blooded murder.

Rather sadd that you don't see this :(

———————————
Sorry guys, but in most civilised countries, killing someone is a worse crime than stealing. I think that guy should be rotting in jail for the maximum penalty and should be paying restitution to the dead people's families. ^_^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Aurora Moon at 2:49PM, Dec. 6, 2007
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I can kinda see where Ozoneocean is coming from.

imagine this:
Your friend hands you a key to a back door or something. The said friend asks you to clear out some of his old junk because he ordered some new things for his home and he didn't want his old junk to be there when his new stuff gets moved in by some moving service. otherwise his home would become too cluttered. So you're basically doing him a favor by packing some of his old stuff such as his small old TV. He can't do this himself because he's very busy with his job, and he's actually paying you some of his money to do it.
But say you weren't in his neighborhood that often, so people have no way of recognizing you as his friend.
so the neighbors who saw you entering the home via the back door instead of the front door, and sees you taking his old junk. They have to assume that you might be a thief.

Which would you rather the neighbors do–
1) Call the cops and let them handle the situation.
2) Shoot you on the spot just because you looked suspicious.

In the first choice… you can at least clear up the misunderstanding with the cops. one call to your friend, and you can have your friend talk to the cops over the phone about the situation. or even have him come over and talk to the cops in person. the two of you can even have a good laugh over the whole thing when it all clears up.

in the second choice, there wasn't any chance to clear up any misunderstanding…neighbors took your own life because they thought you were an POSSIBLE criminal.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 6:38AM, Dec. 7, 2007
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ozoneocean
How is being a suspected thief like being a rapist? Thievery is the real world scenario here.

All I want to know from you is this. Would you kill a person to stop a rape? What about a child pornographer? Would you kill a kiddy porn guy to stop him? Would you kill a man who was beating a dog to stop him? How about a guy who isn't paying his taxes?

I want to know where you think we can draw the line to use deadly force to stop a person from committing a crime.

Is it different if it's a law enforcement officer vs. a private citizen? Can a cop kill some guy for not stopping for speeding? Where and why do you draw the line?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
ozoneocean at 7:03AM, Dec. 7, 2007
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It's pretty simple in all those cases: no

Even for police murder isn't needed and at least in MY country, it's not considered an appropriate response ;)

And unless I've slipped into a scary parallel universe, it's not in the USA either. -US police HAVE gotten away with some pretty bad stuff, but at least it's been seen as bad enough by people in many cases that there's been an uproar about it.

The rape situation is the ONLY case here where you present something more iffy. Even then though, with a gun (that's what this thread is about) I could stop someone dead in their tracks (pardon the pun) without killing them. Such a thing in that particular situation is so simple that if you couldn't then you shouldn't be let anywhere near a firearm because you'd be just as likely to kill the poor woman, or even yourself. lol!

This whole thread is a bit stupid… even normal gun advocates don't usually argue for the right simply to be able to kill anybody they suspect of committing any sort of crime.

Heh, with that sort of self policing violent vigilantism you may as well MAKE child porn, speeding, rape, and thievery legal, because if murder is ok, then the law doesn't have much point at all, does it?

lol! This thread is so mind numbingly moronic that it even invalidates itself lol!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
TnTComic at 11:39AM, Dec. 7, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
All I want to know from you is this. Would you kill a person to stop a rape? What about a child pornographer? Would you kill a kiddy porn guy to stop him? Would you kill a man who was beating a dog to stop him? How about a guy who isn't paying his taxes?

Apples to oranges, sir. Listen to the 911 operator, “its not worth it”. You're comparing the crime of stealing possessions to rape or child pornography? Seriously, man, you've a fucked up view of things if you think stealing a TV is the same as raping a child.

In the states that allow it, you're allowed to shoot an intruder on YOUR property because of self defense, not because the state thinks you should be allowed to use lethal force in defense of a VCR.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
bobhhh at 4:00PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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It's probably not worth mentioning here, but staistics show that the majority of murders in this country are not random or anonymous, but committed by someone known to the victim.

Crimes of passion. They are only made easier by the unfettered access to firearms. Think about, Jeb cathes his wife fucking his best freind, goes crazy and reaches for something to ease his rage. If a gun is handy, blamm they're dead. If he has to go out and purchase one and wait for background checks, he may calm down and decide she's not worth jail time.

And even if you take the case of the crazy dude at the mall. More sever screening would help keep guns, in the last case it was a handy AK47, out of the hands of obvious nutjobs. Christ I failed my first driving test, and I'm not rubber room material.

At least I don't think I am.

Guns are like Bar-B-Ques, If they're just lying around on the back porch filled with propane and ready to fire up, you're way more likely to use them.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 4:13PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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ozoneocean
It's pretty simple in all those cases: no

So. if a guy is raping a woman how are we supposed to help her? Stand by and say “ahem, excuse me sir but could you please stop doing that?” Why issue the police guns in the first place if they shouldn't use lethal force to stop rapists or theives?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 4:15PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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TnTComic
You're comparing the crime of stealing possessions to rape or child pornography?

So are you willing to authorize the use of deadly force to stop a rapist?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
bobhhh at 4:15PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
ozoneocean
It's pretty simple in all those cases: no

So. if a guy is raping a woman how are we supposed to help her? Stand by and say “ahem, excuse me sir but could you please stop doing that?” Why issue the police guns in the first place if they shouldn't use lethal force to stop rapists or theives?

Perhaps we should issue firearms to trained monkeys so they can shoot rapists while they are riding a unicycle and whacking off.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 4:31PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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bobhhh
Perhaps we should issue firearms to trained monkeys so they can shoot rapists while they are riding a unicycle and whacking off.

Well, I thought I had a pretty low opinion of cops, but I at least placed them higher on the food chain than assembly line workers in the skilled professional category… But hey, if you are down on cops then more power to you. Don't call them if you are being attacked.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
bobhhh at 5:05PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
bobhhh
Perhaps we should issue firearms to trained monkeys so they can shoot rapists while they are riding a unicycle and whacking off.

Well, I thought I had a pretty low opinion of cops, but I at least placed them higher on the food chain than assembly line workers in the skilled professional category… But hey, if you are down on cops then more power to you. Don't call them if you are being attacked.

No I don't have a low opinion of cops Einstein, I have a low opinion of you.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
TnTComic at 5:26PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
TnTComic
You're comparing the crime of stealing possessions to rape or child pornography?

So are you willing to authorize the use of deadly force to stop a rapist?

Yes. So?


Mister Mxyzptlk
Well, I thought I had a pretty low opinion of cops, but I at least placed them higher on the food chain than assembly line workers in the skilled professional category… But hey, if you are down on cops then more power to you. Don't call them if you are being attacked.

I like how you judge people based on their occupation. That level of prejudice is rare.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Aurora Moon at 5:52PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
ozoneocean
It's pretty simple in all those cases: no

So. if a guy is raping a woman how are we supposed to help her? Stand by and say “ahem, excuse me sir but could you please stop doing that?” Why issue the police guns in the first place if they shouldn't use lethal force to stop rapists or theives?


There are so many ways to stop a rapist besides the use of a gun. For instance… if a man happened to be carrying a baseball bat from batting pratice on the way home. He catches the rapist in the act, so he threatens him with pyhiscal assult using the baseball bat in order to make him stop raping the woman.
Gasp. no gun was used. There's so many different types of things that one could use to stop an criminal in the act…. one doesn't even need guns for such things.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
bobhhh at 6:09PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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Aurora Moon
Mister Mxyzptlk
ozoneocean
It's pretty simple in all those cases: no

So. if a guy is raping a woman how are we supposed to help her? Stand by and say “ahem, excuse me sir but could you please stop doing that?” Why issue the police guns in the first place if they shouldn't use lethal force to stop rapists or theives?


There are so many ways to stop a rapist besides the use of a gun. For instance… if a man happened to be carrying a baseball bat from batting pratice on the way home. He catches the rapist in the act, so he threatens him with pyhiscal assult using the baseball bat in order to make him stop raping the woman.
Gasp. no gun was used. There's so many different types of things that one could use to stop an criminal in the act…. one doesn't even need guns for such things.

For those of us not coming from batting practice, a little pepperspary is effective.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 6:16PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
So are you willing to authorize the use of deadly force to stop a rapist?

Yes. So?

Why?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 9:20PM, Dec. 7, 2007
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Aurora Moon
There's so many different types of things that one could use to stop an criminal in the act…. one doesn't even need guns for such things.

so why do we issue them to cops? Why not give them baseball bats?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM

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