Debate and Discussion

Practical use of the 2nd amendment: Joe Horn
TnTComic at 12:17PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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Hawk
Are you deliberately saying ignorant and insensitive stuff for a laugh in this thread?

A-yep.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 12:17PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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Aurora Moon
1)Serious results, such as pregnancy or the contraction of a sexually transmitted disease, can occur.

So what, people pass these diseases around with consensual sex too. Shall we make consensual sex illegal?

Aurora Moon
2)Several kinds of psychological results may be experienced over both the short and long term.

Are those effects real or just there because we as a culture obsess over this crime so much? If we worried as much about the feelings of burglary victims and offered them counseling I wonder if they too would have those same problems.

Aurora Moon
3)Many violent sexual assaults end in death or serious injury.

So do many burglaries. They didn't know the old lady was home, they didn't know the family was going to walk in… etc… Assault and Murder are separate crimes. All I'm saying is the surprise sex part isn't such a big deal since it's only a little bit of their life that they “lost”.


Aurora Moon
4)Often the psychological effects of sexual assault on children are even more profound and severe.

Note, I said "It's an hour or two of a woman's life doing something she might do with a guy she hooked up with at a bar." somewhere back there. People who mess with kids like that need to be shot. Oh, I suppose that's too extreme for you too. Maybe you think they need some cuddling or they need positive reinforcement or some other nonsense…
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 12:33PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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Hawk
Are you deliberately saying ignorant and insensitive stuff for a laugh in this thread?

Since you asked politely let me explain.

The basic point people are making here is that property is not worth life. That killing a thief is wrong because the life of the thief has an intrinsic value that surpasses the persons property that he is stealing.

I don't agree with that.

Your property, as I have said before, represents little pieces of your life. Some of it has very deep sentimental value to it thus increasing it's value to you. For someone to come and take that away from you is like taking away the time you worked to earn those things and damaging the memories those items brought back for you. It's like they are enslaving you, making you work so they can have the products of that labor, which is the real reason rape is such an evil crime it's a form of temporary enslavement. Would you kill a man to keep yourself from being enslaved, even for a short time? Would you kill a man to save a family member from it? A friend or neighbor from it? How about to save a total stranger? I hope the answer is yes or all those folks who fought, killed and died in the Civil War did so wrongly in your eyes.

However people like to sound all enlightened and claim that property is so transient and meaningless dude… It's like nothing important man. “Imagine no possessions, it's easy if you try” Yeah John, all the fracking money in the world and you're telling me to give up my stuff. You first buddy.

I suspect they mean OTHER peoples property is meaningless and unimportant. Theirs is important to them but they don't want to admit it for fear of being lumped with the old guy who shot the burglars. Note the only person who responded to my “get rid of stuff” point mentioned old used items that they no longer wanted when I was speaking of new shiny Christmas presents or nice fat paychecks. Perhaps the better deal would have been to ask them to ship me their paychecks since that month of work is so meaningless to them. Be my SLAVES!!! Bwahahah!

There, a polite answer to a polite question. TnTComic could learn a thing or two from Hawk.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
TnTComic at 1:18PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
The basic point people are making here is that property is not worth life. That killing a thief is wrong because the life of the thief has an intrinsic value that surpasses the persons property that he is stealing.

I don't agree with that.

Until we can bring people back from the dead, you are and will always be wrong. We can make another plasma TV. Your insurance can replace your car.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 1:46PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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TnTComic
Until we can bring people back from the dead, you are and will always be wrong.

Ok, so life is so vewy pwescious. It's just the mostest importantist thing ever in the whole world.

Why is abortion legal? You are ending a life. You can argue about the woman's right to chose, trimesters, property rights and all that crap but it's alive, if left to it's own devices it will be a person. No amount of insurance or money will replace that life. Why can we kill a totally innocent little soon to be baby but we can't kill a piece of shit who is stealing other peoples stuff?

Why does the fully born thief trump the unborn baby?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
ozoneocean at 1:58PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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You're not a misogynist are you? o_O
The misanthrope shtick is cute, but misogyny is pushing it a bit… Besides, we already have a resident misogynist.

Anyway, the human life thing is more important that you realise, because it's your life too. ;)

Is your own life more precious to you than your possessions? Mine is, which is why I don't support any initiatives that constitute a danger to it: people shooting guns off willy nilly in the street like kiddy cowboys, shooting at every shadow and stray cat is dangerous.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 3:17PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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ozoneocean
You're not a misogynist are you?

Why do so many people think that? Gsptlsnz laughs every time I show her messages like this. If I tried to mistreat her she'd put such the hurtin' on me. Then she'd get MEAN…

ozoneocean
Is your own life more precious to you than your possessions? Mine is, which is why I don't support any initiatives that constitute a danger to it: people shooting guns off willy nilly in the street like kiddy cowboys, shooting at every shadow and stray cat is dangerous.

It's also not what's going on.

Tell me, how many times in your life have you been moving a TV out of your home, or a friends home, after dark through a window? How many times have you stood outside your home at 3 in the morning breaking your car window so you can rip your own stereo out of it? I work in the foreclosure industry, we do things that look VERY suspicious. We muck around with other peoples homes after all. But we always do it in the light of day. If it gets dark, we stop working. We don't ask for trouble by trying to get things done when it might look suspicious. Sometimes neighbors investigate but no one in my industry has gotten shot over a foreclosure working during the day even in the wild and woolly west.

Most crimes occur at NIGHT. When decent folks are either working or sleeping. Not many honest folks are out there doing suspicious things at those times. Also if you live in a neighborhood where gun ownership is common it's a good idea to let your neighbors know who you are and keep them in the loop when you are doing things that might be thought of as a bit odd. If you want to be an ass and not socialize with your neighbors then go for it. Just don't bitch when such rudeness bites you on the butt.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
TnTComic at 4:43PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
TnTComic
Until we can bring people back from the dead, you are and will always be wrong.

Ok, so life is so vewy pwescious. It's just the mostest importantist thing ever in the whole world.

Why is abortion legal? You are ending a life. You can argue about the woman's right to chose, trimesters, property rights and all that crap but it's alive, if left to it's own devices it will be a person. No amount of insurance or money will replace that life. Why can we kill a totally innocent little soon to be baby but we can't kill a piece of shit who is stealing other peoples stuff?

Why does the fully born thief trump the unborn baby?

We're not talking about abortion. We're talking about what is more valuable, a life or a possession.

You value things over life. You mock those who do otherwise. Have fun out there, chief.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
bobhhh at 10:59PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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ozoneocean
The misanthrope shtick is cute…

Actually I find it a bit tedious. :)
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Aurora Moon at 2:26AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
Note, I said "It's an hour or two of a woman's life doing something she might do with a guy she hooked up with at a bar." somewhere back there. People who mess with kids like that need to be shot. Oh, I suppose that's too extreme for you too. Maybe you think they need some cuddling or they need positive reinforcement or some other nonsense…

Uh, men can get raped too. there's been cases where men were raped by WOMEN. Goggle it if you don't believe me.
And why wouldn't a woman/man feel the same mental and emotional scarring as a child does when unconsental sex happens? and in a lot of cases, a lot of the aftereffects also apply to adults too as well. The point of it was… rape often has LIFE-LONG effects that can't easily be “cured” by buying alarms and tracking devices for your home. And we were also talking about scenarios in where the people survive the two different types of “attacks”.

You can't catch a sexually transmitted disease that slowly kills you just by being burglarized.

And often the women who got raped wasn't even dressed slutty… they were targeted simply because of their gender. Even an conservatively-dressed Amish woman can get targeted by a serial rapist. So I'm tired of you thinking that it's all the women's fault for getting raped. That's like saying a child was asking for it by being too cute and child-like when the child gets raped by some adult.

Sigh. Even Custard trout, who was a victim of burglars, understands that the two crimes are way too much different to even be compared. He went though it, felt the trauma, etc… and even he DISAGREES WITH YOU!!!
Have you honestly ever been burglarized, I wonder?

And it seems that you don't even UNDERSTAND rape. it's honestly to the point where that tiny “evil” part of me hopes that you'd experience it one day just so that you would UNDERSTAND why your statements are so downright moronic.

I'm done with you.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 9:01AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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TnTComic
We're not talking about abortion. We're talking about what is more valuable, a life or a possession.

No, we are talking about how valuable a life is. If life has a high value independent of the actions of the person then how can you support abortion? It's a life the woman is ending. The child has done nothing wrong yet you are willing to allow it to be sentenced to death for the crime of occupying a womb without the woman's permission. However you are not willing to let a thief be killed even though he is taking property without permission.

If life is valuable then abortion is wrong. If abortion is right then life has relative value to the person affected by that life. A woman finds the child's value to be lower than the value of the next 9 months so she kills the child. The old man across the street finds the relative value of a thief's life is lower than the relative value of the TV he is stealing.

Who are you to judge how a woman values the contents of her womb any more than how a person values their property? Why is your attitude the only proper one?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 9:09AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Aurora Moon
You can't catch a sexually transmitted disease that slowly kills you just by being burglarized.

But you can catch a sexually transmitted disease from consensual sex. Shall we criminalize that too?

Aurora Moon
And often the women who got raped wasn't even dressed slutty.

Are you actually bringing up the “she had it coming” argument? Wow, that takes Ovaries. Even I wasn't bringing that one up.

Aurora Moon
Even Custard trout, who was a victim of burglars, understands that the two crimes are way too much different to even be compared.

Different people value things differently. If Trout doesn't value property like some do then that's ok. The problem is when one tries to force their views on property on others or judge others who value their property above the life a thief as being sick in the head. Who are you to judge that man when his neighbors and the elected government of his state agree with him?

I'm still waiting to see those who place such a low value on property agreeing to shread a months worth of paychecks to show how meaningless that month of work is to them. Somehow I doubt you are willing to do that becuae it's not your property that you place such a low value on, it's the property of others.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
bobhhh at 9:35AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
I'm still waiting to see those who place such a low value on property agreeing to shread a months worth of paychecks to show how meaningless that month of work is to them. Somehow I doubt you are willing to do that becuae it's not your property that you place such a low value on, it's the property of others.

You're making the mistake of polarizng the issue. There is lots of grey area there. I won't shred my checks for no reason. But I might given sufficient cause. Like saving my life. I might even decide to let someone take my money rather than put a gun to their head and pull the trigger to save it, because I hate guns and killing so much.

Shredding your paychecks for no reason just proves you are foolish, but that doesn't mean there isn't a situation where your ideals and beliefs aren't more important than your possesions.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 10:27AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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bobhhh
You're making the mistake of polarizng the issue. There is lots of grey area there.

So NOW there are grey areas… When it comes to the life of a thief having value it's black and white but when it comes to YOUR paycheck it's all about grey areas…

Come on. Possessions and time spent working are either meaningless or they have value determined by their owners. Get to shredding if you think the lives of two thieves are worth more than the homeowners possessions. Otherwise admit that you place a high value on your time and admit that others who place such a high value may decide that the lives of thieves are not as valuable.
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
bobhhh at 10:42AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
bobhhh
You're making the mistake of polarizng the issue. There is lots of grey area there.

So NOW there are grey areas… When it comes to the life of a thief having value it's black and white but when it comes to YOUR paycheck it's all about grey areas…

Come on. Possessions and time spent working are either meaningless or they have value determined by their owners. Get to shredding if you think the lives of two thieves are worth more than the homeowners possessions. Otherwise admit that you place a high value on your time and admit that others who place such a high value may decide that the lives of thieves are not as valuable.

You are so obtuse. My not wanting to pull the trigger has no bearing on my consideration of the theieves lives. It has to do my own self respect for not wanting to execute someone over money, even if it's mine.

Repect for life, no matter how heinous, is not something I expect you to understand.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
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TnTComic at 12:14PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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I don't know why you guys keep talking to a person who doesn't think rape should be a crime.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Aurora Moon at 8:39PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
Aurora Moon
You can't catch a sexually transmitted disease that slowly kills you just by being burglarized.

But you can catch a sexually transmitted disease from consensual sex. Shall we criminalize that too?

Aurora Moon
And often the women who got raped wasn't even dressed slutty.

Are you actually bringing up the “she had it coming” argument? Wow, that takes Ovaries. Even I wasn't bringing that one up.

Uhh… you were bringing up the whole “She had it coming” when you commented on her state of dress as being the reason for rape in the past pages of this thread. So of course you brought it up.
Here, let me refresh your memory…
What's the big deal with being raped anyhow? It's an hour or two of a woman's life doing something she might do with a guy she hooked up with at a bar. What's an hour or two when a person has so many of them after all. Sure she isn't a willing participant but hey, once it's over it's over. Go on with life, get some mace and don't dress so provocatively. Right? That's your logic for victims of theft, why not apply it to victims of rape?

As for the whole disease thing… I suppose you're so moronic that you don't even know that it's ALREADY ILLEGAL.
In many states here it's illegal to have unprotected sex if you carry an sexual disease such as aids, HIV, etc. Also they have a clause in most of the states that it's illegal to have sex with somebody without even telling them that you carry an sexual disease. Since to have sex with somebody who trusted you, knowing well enough that you were KILLING them with an disease… That's very low, and also endangers the life of others.
They had to make it illegal because according to a study, a lot of the people who caught this diease wasn't even promiscuous. They were actually LIED to by their significant other who they thought could trust who did not even tell them that they had a disease. so They ended up catching it even if they were doing the responsible thing by wearing condoms, etc. Condoms cut down on the risk of disease, but they don't prevent against such a thing 100%.

So that whole thing with your consensual sex argument is completely out. It's already illegal to do a lot of things to a person against a person's consent. For instance… you can't imprison a person against her/his will in a room. You can't tie a person up if she/he doesn't want it, you can't cause physical injury to your spouse unless she/he wants it (considering that there's plenty of S&M people out there)…. etc…..
So Rape is simply on the list of nonconsental things that are against the law.period.

And with you seeming to belittle it, it kinda makes me wonder if you're one of those sickos who are so inclined to rape people if he/she felt like it.

Anyway, I'm seriously done with you.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
bobhhh at 8:50PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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TnTComic
I don't know why you guys keep talking to a person who doesn't think rape should be a crime.

Aurora Moon
Anyway, I'm seriously done with you.

You guys are right, I'm wasting my breath with this guy, it's the shroud from now on for him.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 8:01AM, Dec. 13, 2007
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bobhhh
My not wanting to pull the trigger has no bearing on my consideration of the theieves lives. It has to do my own self respect for not wanting to execute someone over money, even if it's mine.

So everyone needs to have the same value system that you have? Everyone needs to think like you do about property? Anyone who thinks differantly is flawed in some way?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
bobhhh at 12:27PM, Dec. 13, 2007
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imshard
Let's put it this way, if somebody breaks into your your house, you don't know them and you're terrified for your life; don't you have a right to drive them out?
That said I never condone murder, man-slaughter or any other form of taking human life.

I used to keep a 2X4 by my bed and the front door for criminals, it worked fine on several occasions when I was living in Brooklyn and no one was killed.

I still have my VCR.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Hawk at 2:36PM, Dec. 13, 2007
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You actually fended off burglary with a 2x4, bobhhh? Awesome!

I am also of the persuasion that your own belongings aren't worth killing somebody to save. Mr. Mxyzptlk brings an interesting point of the sentimental value of our belongings, but when I think of the things people would rob from my home, they'd probably be electronics like my TV, consoles, and computer, not family heirlooms and photo albums. It would suck to lose my electronics, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about myself if I ever killed somebody who was stealing them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
bobhhh at 4:40PM, Dec. 13, 2007
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Hawk
You actually fended off burglary with a 2x4, bobhhh? Awesome!

I am also of the persuasion that your own belongings aren't worth killing somebody to save. Mr. Mxyzptlk brings an interesting point of the sentimental value of our belongings, but when I think of the things people would rob from my home, they'd probably be electronics like my TV, consoles, and computer, not family heirlooms and photo albums. It would suck to lose my electronics, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about myself if I ever killed somebody who was stealing them.

Losing a nice stereo pisses me off, not enough to shoot someone, but surely enough to introduce the finer points of modern carpentry and physics to them.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
TnTComic at 4:28AM, Dec. 14, 2007
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Hawk
You actually fended off burglary with a 2x4, bobhhh? Awesome!

I am also of the persuasion that your own belongings aren't worth killing somebody to save.

I wouldn't call it a “persuasion” per se…

Mixalot has chosen to forget that the law allows you to shoot an intruder in your home out of self defense, not defense of your property.

And if he's so hung up on property bullshit, he should take a look at the Philly judge that said a man who raped a prostitute should be charged with theft, not rape. I'm sure he'd love what she had to say.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 4:23PM, Dec. 14, 2007
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Hawk
but I'm not sure how I'd feel about myself if I ever killed somebody who was stealing them.

If you don't want to find out that's you call. But others, many who have killed for Gawd and Country, know if they could or couldn't and if they decide that it's worth killing over then who are you to force your value system on them?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 4:25PM, Dec. 14, 2007
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TnTComic
Mixalot has chosen to forget that the law allows you to shoot an intruder in your home out of self defense, not defense of your property.

Mix-Yaz-Spit-Lick. Come on, it's not that hard.

And I think folks here should keep in mind that you are the kind of person who thinks that the poor should be killing rich folks. How do you jive that with your insistence that property isn't worth killing over?
My soul was removed to make room for all this sarcasm.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM

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