Debate and Discussion

Prejudice and Discrimination
bobhhh at 1:55PM, Nov. 2, 2007
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Well that's a bit broad, but let me get specific as a way to open debate.

I would like to preface this by saying although I long for the days of Bill Clinton, I am by no means a fan of his wife. That is to say I don't have a problem with her either. So this is not a veiled propaganda piece.

But I just heard a bunch of scuttlebutt about the last debate which centered on soley gender. Supporters tacitly portrayed it as a bunch of guys ganging up on the girl, and saying how well she did considering the circumstances. Detractors painted her as double dipping in the sympathy bowl. “While the fact that I am a woman shouldn't be considered, aren't I kicking ass for a girl?”

My question is this,:

Are we incapable as humans to override our prejudices? Are we doomed to make decisions based on lazy thinking and flawed data? Will we continue to pass up and squeeze out qualified candidates based on subjective, uninformed criteria, such as gender and race's pertinence to competence?

Or are we living at the dawn of a new age? Discuss.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
subcultured at 4:10PM, Nov. 2, 2007
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i think it takes time, SOME people will always find a reason to hate something even if they are the same color.

before people used to hate irish, then italian, then chinese, then african, then indian
it's like after people get hated on, in time they become those that hate…kinda wierd.

when race isn't a hate factor anymore, people will start to hate lifestyle (gay, hippy, nerdy)

then when lifestyle isn't a factor anymore people will hate sport teams (bulls, rockets, angels)

sooner or later when they can't think of anything to hate, they will hate the length of your ears.

hopefully some people are learning to be tolerant of others, cause no one else can be like an individual (no matter how perfect you think you are)
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
Kilre at 4:55PM, Nov. 2, 2007
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Start teaching your offspring that making prejudicial and preferential decisions on the basis of differences between themselves and others is wrong, and we'll have a reformed society in a few generations.

Of course, the rest of the world has to pick up on this, too, or it's doomed to be the same shit as we got today.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
kyupol at 5:55PM, Nov. 2, 2007
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What is different is that which is always hated by the majority. Thats one of the sickness in human nature. What is different is hated.

However… I think that the way to OVERRIDE that function of hatred… is to THINK like the ones you hate or the ones who hate you.

I notice that its the children of the immigrants who integrate more into society than the first generation ones. For the first generation, its always a struggle to integrate to society. Thats why they are discriminated against.

Its difficult… having grown up in a totally different environment with different customs, traditions, culture, etc. And then being transferred to a totally different place.

The children integrate more because at a young age, their brains could be easily molded… could be easily manipulated. Their brains would absorb everything. That is why you see all these asian, south asian, south american, middle eastern, etc… etc… kids who fit in and hangout with the whites and the blacks who have been in North America before them.

Do you see the older ones mingle inter-racially? (business deals do not count) Very rare. Because of the difference of thought pattern.



Btw… I'm a first gen immigrant from the Philippines. If you question the level of my english, I studied it extensively back home. I came to Canada at age 17… and I'm now in my early 20s at this point. In that short span of time… I forced my brain to think like the blacks and the whites.

No choice. Adapt or die. Either a) adapt… or b) isolate myself by only intermingling with other Filipinos. Thats what other immigrants also do. They form so-called “communities” segregated by racial lines.

Option b sucks because its not like 95% of Canada's population is Filipino. lol!

And trust me. It was a psychologically painful process.

And now my brain has been partially transformed… I can say that I fit in more in society these days. lol!

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
bobhhh at 7:58PM, Nov. 3, 2007
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kyupol
What is different is that which is always hated by the majority. Thats one of the sickness in human nature. What is different is hated.

However… I think that the way to OVERRIDE that function of hatred… is to THINK like the ones you hate or the ones who hate you.

I notice that its the children of the immigrants who integrate more into society than the first generation ones. For the first generation, its always a struggle to integrate to society. Thats why they are discriminated against.

Its difficult… having grown up in a totally different environment with different customs, traditions, culture, etc. And then being transferred to a totally different place.

The children integrate more because at a young age, their brains could be easily molded… could be easily manipulated. Their brains would absorb everything. That is why you see all these asian, south asian, south american, middle eastern, etc… etc… kids who fit in and hangout with the whites and the blacks who have been in North America before them.

Do you see the older ones mingle inter-racially? (business deals do not count) Very rare. Because of the difference of thought pattern.



Btw… I'm a first gen immigrant from the Philippines. If you question the level of my english, I studied it extensively back home. I came to Canada at age 17… and I'm now in my early 20s at this point. In that short span of time… I forced my brain to think like the blacks and the whites.

No choice. Adapt or die. Either a) adapt… or b) isolate myself by only intermingling with other Filipinos. Thats what other immigrants also do. They form so-called “communities” segregated by racial lines.

Option b sucks because its not like 95% of Canada's population is Filipino. lol!

And trust me. It was a psychologically painful process.

And now my brain has been partially transformed… I can say that I fit in more in society these days. lol!



Actually unless I am mistaken, first generation refers to the children of imigrants. That's me. My folks were imigrants, and we never understood each other. They went through all this trouble to come to America, and then they wanted me to hold on to a lot of inconguous taboos and mores from the old country. I may be Greek, but I could give a rat's ass about hating Turks because somebody did something to someone in the old country.

It was clear to me that my folks either A}Were into the $$ associated with life in the US and secretly longed to return, or B}Wanted me to carry on their little fantsy ethnic enclave, where their fondness for bouzoukis and feta chese were supposed to cause me to swell with pride.

Personally, I think this frantic death grip on ethnicity is one of the motivating factors in prejudice and discrimination. You can bet my folks and many other imigrants bring their baggage with them. One of the reasons I love America so much is it offers you a chance to cast off all that baggage and simply call yourself an American, no hyphen neccessary.

Are we perfect? No certainly not. and I worry for us, because I see our country being torn apart by ideology. And it scares me to see people abroad blow each other up over sectarian and ethnic hatred. That could be us in a couple of years. It's like a tragic game of chicken, who will decide first that it is better to not return fire for the sake of peace?

And now of course, our government has set us back decades by fostering new generations of America haters.

This is one reason I'm not optimistic I will live to see the end of institutional P&D in this country or internationally.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Kilre at 8:08PM, Nov. 3, 2007
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bobhhh
Are we perfect? No certainly not. and I worry for us, because I see our country being torn apart by ideology. And it scares me to see people abroad blow each other up over sectarian and ethnic hatred. That could be us in a couple of years. It's like a tragic game of chicken, who will decide first that it is better to not return fire for the sake of peace?

I gotta step in on this one, bob.

In this world, the way it is now, the people that don't return fire are the people that are killed off.

Your “chicken” analogy is dead on, but neither side will pull out =/
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
bobhhh at 6:19AM, Nov. 4, 2007
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Kilre
bobhhh
Are we perfect? No certainly not. and I worry for us, because I see our country being torn apart by ideology. And it scares me to see people abroad blow each other up over sectarian and ethnic hatred. That could be us in a couple of years. It's like a tragic game of chicken, who will decide first that it is better to not return fire for the sake of peace?

I gotta step in on this one, bob.

In this world, the way it is now, the people that don't return fire are the people that are killed off.

Your “chicken” analogy is dead on, but neither side will pull out =/

I'm not saying some situations don't require self defense, but tell me how long should the isralis and palestinians continue to claim moral high ground as an excuse to keep killing each other?
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Hawk at 10:37AM, Nov. 4, 2007
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I think prejudice is a naturally ingrained defense mechanism. I noticed this as my brother pestered a kitten until it feared all humans. And it seems like I've seen evidence of this in people, too. This tendency to prejudge is what makes us keep our distance from the scruffy threatening-looking guy in the dark alley or to shun the awkward foreigner in high school, so it has it works in both good and bad ways.

I don't think we'll ever be rid of prejudice. It may cause us to be unfair to people, but it also keeps us safe from legitimate threats. The best we can do is turn our prejudices away from things like race and gender.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Kilre at 10:46AM, Nov. 4, 2007
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bobhhh
I'm not saying some situations don't require self defense, but tell me how long should the isralis and palestinians continue to claim moral high ground as an excuse to keep killing each other?

However long it takes for either side to a) kill the other side off, or b) realize the absurdity of their actions and maybe talk it over.

Personally, I don't have much hope for the second option. It's just the world we live in.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
subcultured at 6:53PM, Nov. 4, 2007
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Someone
I think prejudice is a naturally ingrained defense mechanism. I noticed this as my brother pestered a kitten until it feared all humans.

that's a learned reaction o classical conditioning(pavlov's dog) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning

dogs don't naturally drool when he hears a bell

more than likely, prejudice is a learned behavior. kids play with each other, no matter the color…unless of course they see prejudice actions from their parents/media/friends
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:03PM
Hawk at 9:08PM, Nov. 4, 2007
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Oh, I fully agree with that. I just think that our tendency to learn prejudices is natural.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Tantz Aerine at 4:36AM, Nov. 5, 2007
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bobhhh
Actually unless I am mistaken, first generation refers to the children of imigrants. That's me. My folks were imigrants, and we never understood each other. They went through all this trouble to come to America, and then they wanted me to hold on to a lot of inconguous taboos and mores from the old country. I may be Greek, but I could give a rat's ass about hating Turks because somebody did something to someone in the old country.

It was clear to me that my folks either A}Were into the $$ associated with life in the US and secretly longed to return, or B}Wanted me to carry on their little fantsy ethnic enclave, where their fondness for bouzoukis and feta chese were supposed to cause me to swell with pride.

Personally, I think this frantic death grip on ethnicity is one of the motivating factors in prejudice and discrimination. You can bet my folks and many other imigrants bring their baggage with them. One of the reasons I love America so much is it offers you a chance to cast off all that baggage and simply call yourself an American, no hyphen neccessary.

Are we perfect? No certainly not. and I worry for us, because I see our country being torn apart by ideology. And it scares me to see people abroad blow each other up over sectarian and ethnic hatred. That could be us in a couple of years. It's like a tragic game of chicken, who will decide first that it is better to not return fire for the sake of peace?

And now of course, our government has set us back decades by fostering new generations of America haters.

This is one reason I'm not optimistic I will live to see the end of institutional P&D in this country or internationally.

I can certainly see why to you the animosity/enmity between Greeks and Turks (or any other Nation the Greeks have a bone to pick with) is irrelevant. And it is a healthy way to be and react. However you must understand that while over there it is irrelevant, over here in Greece, where I am living, it is very much relevant.

Of course in a perverse manner, it only becomes relevant when the news/states/propaganda make old wounds chafe and cause people to have intolerance between each other. It is not inbuilt. In Greece there have been made many attempts for breaching the cavernous gap which is the clashing of Greece and Turkey- after all it has happened with Greece and Germany, even though during WWII Greece was ravaged by the German army.

…but Germany is not next door.

What I mean to say is that people are forced to hate each other, antagonise and battle each other even to the death, and this is done because they are given valid reasons. Why? because they are taught to be threatened to this social group or that social group.

Threatened how?

Immigrants threaten the indigenous people financially. They are often (at least in Greece) treated much more favourably than actual citizens by the state and they get more privileges than they get demands. Their children go to school with much younger kids and cause the younger kids to seem under-achieving when in reality they are simply at a different developmental stage.

Other ethnic groups, race groups, style/team/you name it group get hated or end up returning this hate because they feel they are being pushed or are pushing out of a deserved social position under the sun by the other.

I once had two female dogs. They did not particularly have an emotional bond between them (one being very old and the other quite young) but they lived peacefully and relatively harmoniously with each other. Why? Because they felt safe their respective doghouses and their food would not be threatened by each other. One day a builder from the adjacent building threw my dogs one single souvlaki. Just one. The dogs nearly killed each other over it- one bit the other at the muzzle, the other at the neck. It was just because we heard the rucous that we managed to get there and separate them.

I think the example illustrates exactly why people hate each other and go to great length to annihilate each other. Whether the sensation that there is not enough food and of what kind available is accurate, is besides the point.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:07PM
bbr at 4:51AM, Nov. 5, 2007
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I think a large part of the problem is in the election systems.
Actually.. that's about 80% of the problem.

Republical / democrats in the USA. and some people such as school teachers are FORCED to vote a certain way or they lose their job.
Its ridiculous.

Also, a pretty talk or some sayings will win you more votes than any common sense ever will.
Seriously how on earth did that monkey of a bush get elected?
Not saying the other choice was any bit better (seemed a complete dopehead as well), but surely they could have come up with a normal person instead of these gits that are obviously not fit to rule a country this big?

Clinton was a cool guy, also one of the only few presidents that were not a member of the “free masons”, look it up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:15AM
bobhhh at 10:39AM, Nov. 5, 2007
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Tantz Aerine
I can certainly see why to you the animosity/enmity between Greeks and Turks (or any other Nation the Greeks have a bone to pick with) is irrelevant. And it is a healthy way to be and react. However you must understand that while over there it is irrelevant, over here in Greece, where I am living, it is very much relevant.

Boy am I embarrassed. I tend to forget that there is a whole nation of people over there, and not just a spectre constantly summoned by my folks. I apologize if my rant trivialized the real strife you experience.

One thing i do remember from one of my visits as a youngster, was the closeness of ethnic and cultural attributes between the turks, cypriots and greeks in the village where my mom grew up. There was even a neighbor, 100% orthodox greek, who was named Mustapha. It's ironic that people who are so similar in customs, can be so hateful of each other, but then I guess that's true here to.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM

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