What is this?
It's a challenge to and for makers of manga/anime comics.

What are the rules?
Create a non-manga comic, which can be any engaging and interesting story arc, as long as it's not drawn or written in the style of manga. Some suggestions would be a detective story, a “slice of life” comic strip, a love story, a gripping suspense… you get the idea. The arc should be a minimum of ten pages but can be as long as you want.

Why the hell should I?
Whoever does the best job when it's all said and done gets a signed copy of the very rare First Drunk Duck collection, signed by the likes of KC Green, Ronson, JTPokie and Black Kitty. (and possibly me.). also, there are thousands of manga web-comics out there that just clone other webcomics or their favorite manga style/artist, yours isn't the only one. if you want to stand out in the crowd, you must do something different.

Why Do you care?
A lot of people… A LOT of people… have written off manga web-comics as fanboy fodder that is useless filler at best. I happen to think you can tell a good story using just about anything. There used to be a good webcomic called “Plastic Ledgends” which was told using photos of the writer's legos used as props and characters. There was “Screwball Islands”, a good “sprite” comic strip that utilized homemade sprite sheets not found in any video game. Also, various stick figure comics such as “No 4th Wall To Break”. I've also seen people incorporate both east and west into their art with fantastic results that was both manga and western at the same time.

When do I start and how long do I have?
Well, you can start right now. It will take a while for enough people to see this and for all participants to come up with engaging material fit for submission, so at the moment a due date will not be set… but plan on a month or so.

How do I enter?
Very simple, you announce your intentions to do so in this thread.

Participants
Kxela
Jydra
KC3T LV
Jadedwinter71
Chrono
Shadowmist
Eunice P
Big Evil

Randall, how do you decide what's manga enough and what's not? I mean, there's a full range of stuff out there from “really manga” to “almost manga” to “uses a few tecniques of manga”.

True that. Nothing anyone who isn't in japan making it can truely be considered manga.

I dunno, the overall idea is good. My stuff isn't really ‘manga’ but I suppose it could borrow enough influences from manga to be branded as such (my characters still have big eyes and not many muscles and aren't animation-cartoony enough to be anything in a truley ‘american’ stereotype).

Right now I'm trying to finish the chapter of AA that I'm working on, otherwise I'd participate. Plus AP Courses take away my time… :|

I think I see Randal's point. Try something completely different than the “manga” style. You could try newspaper-comic style, or maybe as far off as stick figures, whatever! I think the whole point is to try something new, that you're not used to.

Mazoo
I think I see Randal's point. Try something completely different than the “manga” style. You could try newspaper-comic style, or maybe as far off as stick figures, whatever! I think the whole point is to try something new, that you're not used to.

It seems more like he dislikes manga and he wants less of it. I can see his motivation. There are lots of manga-wannabe comics. Some kid who just got done reading some actual manga will create some character with a Japanese name and they'll go to a Japanese school or be an angel or protect some kind of platypus thing. People really do need to stop pretending they're Japanese… at least if they want to have a more original comic.

But the problem is I honestly don't see as much manga as I see of sprite comics, and even then, does using a few manga-like techniques fit you into the category of comics Randal doesn't want? I do see a lot of “partial manga”. That's kind of how I view my own comic.

Hawk

Mazoo
I think I see Randal's point. Try something completely different than the “manga” style. You could try newspaper-comic style, or maybe as far off as stick figures, whatever! I think the whole point is to try something new, that you're not used to.

It seems more like he dislikes manga and he wants less of it. I can see his motivation. There are lots of manga-wannabe comics. Some kid who just got done reading some actual manga will create some character with a Japanese name and they'll go to a Japanese school or be an angel or protect some kind of platypus thing. People really do need to stop pretending they're Japanese… at least if they want to have a more original comic.

But the problem is I honestly don't see as much manga as I see of sprite comics, and even then, does using a few manga-like techniques fit you into the category of comics Randal doesn't want? I do see a lot of “partial manga”. That's kind of how I view my own comic.

Both of you raise valid points. Though Mazoo has hit it more on the head than Hawk, as I don't dislike manga, I dislike bad comics. There are all kinds of bad stick figure, sprite, strip and non-manga story comics as well. But you are right about the source. Kids see what they like and want to copy it, so there is an influx of kids that know how to draw/imitate/borrow heavily from manga and don't try anything else.

What really inspired this was going into my local Barnes and Noble to look at the cartooning section, and finding one copy of a traditional cartooning book burried under five hundred different types of “how to draw manga” books. They didn't even have a copy of Will Eisner's “Comics Sequential Art.”

As for who qualifies for this contest, anybody who does a manga comic, or feel they don't but have been told they do. Do what Mazoo hit on and try anything but what you are doing now.

Randal
Both of you raise valid points. Though Mazoo has hit it more on the head than Hawk, as I don't dislike manga, I dislike bad comics. There are all kinds of bad stick figure, sprite, strip and non-manga story comics as well. But you are right about the source. Kids see what they like and want to copy it, so there is an influx of kids that know how to draw/imitate/borrow heavily from manga and don't try anything else.

Then I think you've come to a good, valid opinion. I agree with you, too. It's probably a really good idea to subject yourself to as many forms of art before you decide what path you're going to walk down. All my teachers tell me to decide my style later in the game, after some years of flat-out figure-drawing studying and looking at numerous other artists I enjoy.

What really inspired this was going into my local Barnes and Noble to look at the cartooning section, and finding one copy of a traditional cartooning book burried under five hundred different types of “how to draw manga” books. They didn't even have a copy of Will Eisner's “Comics Sequential Art.”

Those “How to Draw Manga” books are a travesty. First of all, many of the artists who make it have no business teaching how to draw. Second of all, it's a scam. Your odds of getting a job off of manga-drawing skills are slim to none, and the books set people up with the unattainable dream of becoming a professional Manga artist. Not gonna happen. Add that to the fact that they're designed to help artists imitate styles rather than teach drawing fundamentals.

They're good for the hobbyists… those who want to draw manga just for fun… and those who want decent-looking art right away with no substance.

Sorry, I've so badly derailed the original intent of this thread. To put it back on track, I'd like to suggest for people to consider non-manga as a possible path for their art. Especially if they want a job. I'm in the process of de-mangafying myself.

I want Randal to do a manga comic in exchange. :D

I'd just like to clarify something here, which in the original post, is probably an oversight, but unclear in the scope of a contest.

What are the rules?
Create a non-manga comic, which can be any engaging and interesting story arc, as long as it's not drawn or written in the style of manga. Some suggestions would be a detective story, a “slice of life” comic strip, a love story, a gripping suspense… you get the idea. The arc should be a minimum of ten pages but can be as long as you want.

Manga comics span the afore mentioned suggestions. There are specifically love stories, slice of life, gripping suspence, detective stories, and many other genres that are drawn in manga that are not ‘manga’ specific. I think to say that one cannot ‘write in the style of manga’ is not only ignorant to the actual nature of it being a comic artform but extremely vague to a contestant.

I think it would be more clear to say not to use stereotypical manga conventions that are traditionally faux pas of the copycatters and specify exactly what those are in accordance with this contest. Maybe its the broken japanese, perhaps limiting settings so one cannot use tokyo or any other japanese place, nor use japanese names, or use japanese conventions or mythology. Maybe its the character dynamics or particular character conventions? If you took the stories of most DECENT manga and wrote them into a novel, chances are, you wouldn't know they were nessisarily originated from manga. A good story is a good story. Regardless of if it was illustrated with big eyes, little eyes, or strictly in text.

I think its fair to say draw a comic in a ‘north american’ style ( which is really the only other one you have aside from ‘manga’ as a ‘style’) without using any of the following cliche's in the writing and then list the specific faux pas you don't want to see.

Oh, you as well?

Anyway I own a couple of those manga books which I got for Christmas as well as a ‘fusion’ book. I really should pick up ‘Comics and Sequential Art’.

shadowsmyst
I'd just like to clarify something here, which in the original post, is probably an oversight, but unclear in the scope of a contest.

What are the rules?
Create a non-manga comic, which can be any engaging and interesting story arc, as long as it's not drawn or written in the style of manga. Some suggestions would be a detective story, a “slice of life” comic strip, a love story, a gripping suspense… you get the idea. The arc should be a minimum of ten pages but can be as long as you want.

Manga comics span the afore mentioned suggestions. There are specifically love stories, slice of life, gripping suspence, detective stories, and many other genres that are drawn in manga that are not ‘manga’ specific. I think to say that one cannot ‘write in the style of manga’ is not only ignorant to the actual nature of it being a comic artform but extremely vague to a contestant.

I think it would be more clear to say not to use stereotypical manga conventions that are traditionally faux pas of the copycatters and specify exactly what those are in accordance with this contest. Maybe its the broken japanese, perhaps limiting settings so one cannot use tokyo or any other japanese place, nor use japanese names, or use japanese conventions or mythology. Maybe its the character dynamics or particular character conventions? If you took the stories of most DECENT manga and wrote them into a novel, chances are, you wouldn't know they were nessisarily originated from manga. A good story is a good story. Regardless of if it was illustrated with big eyes, little eyes, or strictly in text.

I think its fair to say draw a comic in a ‘north american’ style ( which is really the only other one you have aside from ‘manga’ as a ‘style’) without using any of the following cliche's in the writing and then list the specific faux pas you don't want to see.

Dude, calling me ignorant is a little harsh. It's a forum contest, these things are maleable and I figured I'd be around to answer people's specific quesitons. It was a spur of the moment thing, nothing I planned out in as much detail as you just did.

On a related note, would you like to do my taxes this year?

I thought there was also a European style too, or is this just a Japan/America type thing?

Don't the brits get their own stuff?

Mr. Neil

Hawk
Those “How to Draw Manga” books are a travesty.

Katy Coope makes me want to claw my eyes out.

They should call her book “How to Draw Awful”.

Dude, calling me ignorant is a little harsh. It's a forum contest, these things are maleable and I figured I'd be around to answer people's specific quesitons. It was a spur of the moment thing, nothing I planned out in as much detail as you just did.

On a related note, would you like to do my taxes this year?

I don't think you are ignorant, I thought your words were displaying an ignorance of the subject. Its the same as saying that I don't think you are a mean person, but you said something mean. Perhaps you didn't mean it, but to me, thats how I see it.

You at least were specific about about your peeves with sprite comics in your sprite comic contest of the same vein, I figure it would be fair to say the same for the manga one. ( you said “without making any game references or using any |337, create an engaging and interesting story arc.” in the sprite competition, would it not be fair to say something similar in the manga one?) There is obviously something in the writing of the common webmanga that pisses you off, or you wouldn't have said you didn't want it ‘written in the style of manga’. But since I write normal stories and draw in a manga style, people assume its a ‘manga story’. If I didn't use a manga style to draw it, you'd never know it wasn't just a normal story. How should I know what is ‘manga writing’ by your standard if you don't say? See my issue?

And you really really do NOT want me to do your taxes. Math and I are mortal enemies.

ccs1989
I thought there was also a European style too, or is this just a Japan/America type thing?

Don't the brits get their own stuff?

Actually, your right. There is European stuff. Although probably not a lot of people would be intimately familiar with it unless you are from that part of the world. The only European stuff I remember well is like.. french. *shivers* I thought british stuff was still very visually americanish in flavor, although obviously subject matter differs.

Most of the time I do find manga to be not my taste. Except for the well written ones like domu, gto, tomie…

when it comes to my style I try to vary my influences, there is some innocence in some manga stories that i find apealing, but it is also marred by shots of needless t a.

in my point of view I like to see other ways to tell stories. I find it refreshing.

(after several attempts at trying to type a longer reply):

I'll try.

Wait, I just thought of something. People can do sprite comics for this and end up fufilling both contests with the SAME entry as long as the story is good.

Dun Dun Dunnnnnnn.

Um my comic isn't even manga styled…can I still enter? :o :D

ccs1989
Wait, I just thought of something. People can do sprite comics for this and end up fufilling both contests with the SAME entry as long as the story is good.

that's true- but you'd need to be both a manga comic artist AND a sprite comic artist to enter both contests right? Besides I think Randal would know if someone entered both with the same comic :wink:

I used to draw manga styled comics. With girls in kimonos! That knew magic! And Kung Fu! And had hilarious love/hate relationships with the main character! The main character with a lot of rivals who all eventually befriend him! With a missing father and an evil villian who sorta looked like him but with more hair and bat wings!

I don't want to talk about it.

Eggbert
I used to draw manga styled comics. With girls in kimonos! That knew magic! And Kung Fu! And had hilarious love/hate relationships with the main character! The main character with a lot of rivals who all eventually befriend him! With a missing father and an evil villian who sorta looked like him but with more hair and bat wings!

I don't want to talk about it.

The bad days are over, Egg. It's all in the past.

Eggbert
I used to draw manga styled comics. With girls in kimonos! That knew magic! And Kung Fu! And had hilarious love/hate relationships with the main character! The main character with a lot of rivals who all eventually befriend him! With a missing father and an evil villian who sorta looked like him but with more hair and bat wings!

I don't want to talk about it.

I had those days. I agree, it's something best left unsaid.

But it's a learning expreience. Sometimes, you have to do something in order to learn why you shouldn't do it.

disturb
MISLEADING TITLE'D

I was hoping to try my hand at drawing giant robot battles and bad translations and stuff. You should change it to like Randal's 'Thon of No Manga. Or THE ANTIMANGATRON.

Disturb brings up something I wanted to address. These contests are going to be a quarterly event if the results are favorable, I don't have enough books to make that the prize all the time, but there will be prizes and they will be good. Next round will have three contests… People that don't do sprites (or do) that do sprite comics that aren't fanboy leet… People that don't do manga (or do) making compelling stories within the confines of what can be considered manga without driving stereotypes into the ground… and last but not least, a contest only for people who make manga and sprite comics to make good compelling non manga or sprite comics… there will be eight to ten weeks to come up with ten pages for each contest, then two to four weeks of showcasing, judging, awarding, and preparing for the next round.

disturb
MISLEADING TITLE'D

I was hoping to try my hand at drawing giant robot battles and bad translations and stuff. You should change it to like Randal's 'Thon of No Manga. Or THE ANTIMANGATRON.

or how about “ The Super Hyper Mega Anti-Manga Reversal-a-thon”?

:)

First Define Manga. Because the Japanese definition is not what you think it is. ‘Manga’ means uncontrollable drawings. the word Manga is reserved for a special class of comics in Japan. Basically the origional, non formulaic stories are called ‘manga’. Other comics are called shojoai, shonenai, doujinshi, ecchi,, hentai and a variety of other words that basically classify the comic in question. By way of example, Miazaki, Dunn and Takahashi are manga artists. Clamp are not.

In adition, despite the opinions stated by more than one in this very thread, many artists in many countries, including America (Chris Clarmont, Ben Dunn and Fred Perry), france and spain have been accepted as Manga by the japanese community. Even so, the very definition of Manga is brderless, not recognizing political boundries, even if the Japanese themselves are xenophobic.

Is your definition of Manga art that is inspired by japanese comics? If that is the case then there is a problem due to many of the non ‘big eyes small mouth’ professional comic artists here that were inspired by japanese comic artists. Fun fact: There are many comics in japan that are NOT the ‘big eyes, small mouth’ style, yet are called manga.

Is your definition of manga anything that has the big eyes small mouth stylization? Better call warner bros. or disney.

Is your definition of Manga anything from Japan? Well Most of the modern animation in america is done in japan like the TMNT cartoons, are they manga? Also does that exclude the ‘anime’ that is doen in taiwan or korea or china?


You have chosen to judge those of us who use this style based on fanbois with no lives imitating anything they can to feel special. That's not dissimilar to judging Star Wars by the bad costume players or judging Drunk Duck based on the gay jokes in some of the sprite comics.

I accept your challange, out of respect to thic comic hosting site, d the people (like spang) who take the time to help me when I make bone headed mistakes. But at it's core I think this kind of thing is demeaning.


P.S. Randall, your avitar bears a striking resemblance to one of the characters depicted in a 4 panel mini comic run in the japanese issues of Shonen Jump, circa 1992.

disturb
Owned.

Hmm…not really! I think she was just trying to make a point.

I think this should be a challenge for anyone. :D That's why I wanted to join, but I haven't been given a yes or anything so I don't know if I can.

I know I'd like to make an attempt at doing a manga, to see how “the otherside lives”. :P