Debate and Discussion

Random Violence
ZeroVX at 11:52AM, May 18, 2007
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This thread is for stories of random acts of violence, bad things happening to good people.This thread is for those who have stories to share, whether they have merely heard them, or have experienced them personally, or for those who just want to listen and offer support.
You may ask: Why? Why suddenly put this up? Random violence is nothing new. Well, I'll tell you:

It happened just over two hours ago. I was in an assembly with my math class. As usual, I figured it'd be just an excuse to sleep. I was wrong.

The woman at the front told us a story, involving an accident at a random party. I heard this story in a new way. I had heard stories of tragedy before, but never like this. After she finished, I had made two silent vows: one for myself, and the family I may one day have, and one for the rest of the world. My vow, to the world, was to pass on her story. And here it is:

His name was Bob. He was the unofficial salt-of-the-earth. He was excellent in athletics, having run in more marathons than anyone I had heard of, was an accomplished lawyer, and still had time for his wife and twin children. In my opinion, one of the greatest people to ever live. When he turned the big 4-0, everyone in their little community got together for a party. Bob was a pretty popular guy. He would never try to make a person feel uncomfortable: rather, just the opposite. And if his friend needed help with anything, anything at all, he would drop what he was doing and rush to help.

His wife (whose name I wish I'd learned) was going over everything that had happened to them when Bob got a call, asking him to participate in a big race in Australia. Naturally, he agreed. He was gone for November of ‘97 and the better part of December, returning on the 23rd, just in time for Christmas. Then, everything changed.

It was New Years Eve. One of Bob’s friends and his wife were vacationing in Mexico, and he had recently heard that their son had started a party. He decided to go over and make sure the kid was OK. So, he got a couple of his friends together, and they went over to check it out. He didn't come back.

He got seperated from his friends, and had gone upstairs to check things out. He ran into a big, 6-foot guy named Ryan. Ryan realized he was here to crash the party. So, he knocked him out. Cold.As Bob is laying there, unconscious, another guy, ironically also named Ryan, kicked him four times in the head. Soccer-style. The kicks ruptured a blood vessel, and he died.

The aftereffect was incredible. The funeral was shown on CBC. Everyone in the community had shown up. The parents of the party-starter wouldn't even go near the house. The husband entered once, to get their things. The wife wouldn't.Bob's children were 4 years old. Far too young to deal with this.

Two things especially shocked me about this, the first was a negative shock: No one spoke up. No one at the party called 911. No one would confess to the police. They kept silent for 5 years. It took the police 2 and a half years of undercover work to find the one responsible.
The second shock was more positive than I thought it would be: The wife began to move on, much faster than most people would. She had decided to tell people about this.

To add to this, she had found the one responsible. When the police made an arrest, she made a video, and sent it to him. The video explained what Bob was like, and what his death had done to the family. She then asked him to do the same. To reach down and explain his reasons. Ryan wrote three letters of apology: one to the wife, one to the children, and one to the community. He then managed to talk to the wife, he was crying. She said that he had admitted to his crimes, and that was the first step to recovery. The next would be to plead guilty at the hearing, to prevent everyone from going through the trial. He did.

He was sentenced to five years in prison. And that whole time, the wife worried about him. She was worried that he would become a heroin-addicted, hepatitis-infected criminal.So far, he hasn't. He has made sure to stay clean, and turn his life around.

After I heard this story, one question consumed me: How? How, after what he had done to her, could she forgive him? I, like many of you, could never forgive that, no matter what he did. So, after she was finished, I pulled her aside, and asked her that very question. She said that, if she hadn't spoken to him, then he could have become so depressed that he would become the heroin-addict. He could turn his life into a mess, and eventually commit suicide. Maybe even take someone down with him. What would that mean for his family. And, she also said that if she hadn't taken that attitude, she would've done what most others would've done: become insanely depressed, probably take multiple drugs for it, and be consumed by anger and hate. What example would that be for her children? It wasn't religion, she said. Only practicality.
After I walked away, I wished that there were more people like that. People who would forgive, rather than always hate. I thank you for listening.

And now, I ask a favour of you.I ask that you pass this story on. The wife wants to do it, but there is a whole world out there, and I doubt she'd make it. So, I ask that you help her.Tell this story to your friends, and have them pass the story on to others, and so on. It may seem foolish, but I want the world to know this story. Because this story taught me something: Violence can happen at any given time. A life can begin, or end, at any random moment. So live your life freely. Spend every day as though it were your last. Because, for all you know, it could be.
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM
ozoneocean at 12:18PM, May 18, 2007
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Big long story there man… I put it into paragraphs though. Having each sentence on a separate line makes it very hard to read and the dramatic effect you want to archive by that format is overcome by the annoyance it causes. ;)

Interesting. Yep, Violence is no good. But I think better than not trying to be a victim of it yourself; you should try never to be the cause of it. I think that's the trap that a lot of people fall into. They get worried about that sort of thing happening to them and end up actually doing it to someone else.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:27PM
Aurora Moon at 12:51PM, May 18, 2007
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hate to tell you this, but it seems like one of those totally fake spam e-mail messages disgused as tradegy stories, with the very end of it “telling you to pass it on.”

I googled this story, and there's NO meition of any simlar events even remotely happening at all. so that's another singal to me that it's competely fake.

I suppose you could tell me that the whole point of the story is that whenever it's real or fake, is that it's supposed to make you think about random violence and what not.

But this is still basically an spam message to me.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
ozoneocean at 1:03PM, May 18, 2007
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Funny you should say that Aurora, because when it was in its original “new line for every sentence” format, that's exactly what it looked like. But I didn't find the text in a quick Google search so I gave it the benefit of the doubt. If your suspicions are confirmed I may ban ZeroVX from this forum for good. People KNOW they can pull that stuff in the Top Drawer, but it's not welcome here.

But for now he has the benefit of the doubt.

-edit-
It could still be from one of those spam e-mails, but it seems to be a real story at least. (here as well, podcast).
So here you go; benefit of the doubt was right. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:27PM
ccs1989 at 1:28PM, May 18, 2007
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If this is true, that's horrible. If it's fake…why the hell would they name the guy so predictably. I mean “Bob”?

EDIT- Nevermind, not a hoax story. So yeah I'm gonna go with my former comment on this. It's really terrible that happened.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
ZeroVX at 1:41PM, May 18, 2007
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ozoneocean
-edit-
It could still be from one of those spam e-mails, but it seems to be a real story at least.
So here you go; benefit of the doubt was right. :)

That's her name! I can't believe I forgot it!

Aurora, I can understand your doubts. I've seen one or two stories that were a bit farfetched. But that's not the problem. The problem is that no one is willing to believe the truth: that this stuff can happen.

The last thing I want is someone telling me I'm a liar after I just poured my heart out.

But, as you can clearly see, it wasn't a lie.

Oh, and ozone, thanks for the edit. Sorry, the one-sentence-per-line style is just how I usually write.
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM
Aurora Moon at 1:49PM, May 18, 2007
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ccs1989
If this is true, that's horrible. If it's fake…why the hell would they name the guy so predictably. I mean “Bob”?

lol, it IS an overly common stupid name.

and.. just because it's on an website doesn't mean it's true. it could had been an picture of some random people, along with an doctored story to make the website seem more creditable.

Hey it's happened before. However.. I googled the wife after getting her name and it does appear that her story is real.
After Bob's murder on New Year's Eve 1997 Katy waited for five years while the RCMP worked tirelessly to obtain the evidence to prosecute and convict his killers. During that period, Katy developed her perception of the societal forces and lack of understanding amongst young people that created the circumstances leading to Bob's death. She grew to recognize the need to advise and educate young members of the community about the risks that arise with the combination of young people, alcohol, and a lack of supervision.

yeah. looking into the story more, it seems the reason why anybody didn't call 911 or the police at the time is because young people were partying, and they just mistook his body as an passed out drunk person, with minor injuries seemingly from falling to the ground. Nobody saw the killer (just some damn drunk teenager who thought it'd be funny to kick an “passed out” person) do what he did. and afterwards they didn't just want to confess up to being at an party where somebody died.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Aurora Moon at 1:58PM, May 18, 2007
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ZeroVX
Aurora, I can understand your doubts. I've seen one or two stories that were a bit farfetched. But that's not the problem. The problem is that no one is willing to believe the truth: that this stuff can happen.

The last thing I want is someone telling me I'm a liar after I just poured my heart out.

But, as you can clearly see, it wasn't a lie.

that wasn't it. I could see that happening… That's just how it was posted seemed WAY Too simlar to the fake tragedy stories I get in spam-emails, espeically with the last parapgh telling us “to pass it on!!”

I would advise you to not tell people to “pass it on” at the end of an story, otherwise it just creates the whole vibe that it was maybe fake. and also by telling people to “pass it on”, then it may lead to people copying and pasting your post, e-mailing it and then eventally making it into an whole new spam e-mail message.
Hey, it has happened.

I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
ZeroVX at 2:38PM, May 18, 2007
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When I said “pass it on”, I actually meant through speech, not e-mails. I wanted people to realize what can happen.

But I suppose that was a mistake on my part. Sorry for the confusion.

By the way, this thread is for other stories too. So, if anyone wants to share?
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM
Phantom Penguin at 5:31PM, May 18, 2007
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I would never forgive someone for killing someone that close.

In fact, I would kill them back.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
ZeroVX at 6:17AM, May 22, 2007
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That's the thing. A few weeks ago, if you had said that, I would've agreed with you. But now, now that I know of the consequences, I'm not sure.

I mean, if you did that, not only would you change the lives of the person's family and friends, but you would have incredible guilt that could haunt you for the rest of your life.

Could you live with that? I'm not so sure I could.
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM
Phantom Penguin at 7:35AM, May 22, 2007
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Live with blood on my hands?
Yeah no problem. Killing someone who willingly killed a innocent man? I would do it in a heartbeat.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
ZeroVX at 11:11AM, May 22, 2007
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Are you 100% sure?

The only way you could actually say that you could live with that is if you had already killed someone.

Have you?
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM
Aurora Moon at 12:29PM, May 22, 2007
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uh, P.P here is an U.S solider.I think it's fair enough to assume that he've at least killed a few people.

Anyway… for me, whenever I would want to kill the person depends on that situation.

Take that wife's sitution. Her husband was killed by some stupid DRUNK TEENAGER at an unsupervised party. This same teenager in his drunken state, thought it would be funny to kick some random unconicous guy on the floor repeatdly. In the new articles I found, it stated that he “was trying to punt him like a football”.

Now, there's some teenagers out there who often acts on stupid, dangerous ideas not realizing that it could really kill. So that guy when he was having “fun” kicking the guy, I don't think he realized in his drunken state that kicking an guy like that could kill.

Killing unintentionally whenever it be accident or not…
Is much different than
the intent to kill purposefully, whenever you have an reason for it or not.

So if I was in an simlar situation, I'd proably forgive that guy too like the wife did. However…I would STILL want him to do time.
I would want him to do the time because it'd make sure that he would really learn his lesson… that such actions, whenever it had been unintentional or not… has it own personal consquences.

But if the situation was much different… say it was an full grown man who enjoyed beating people to death. Then I'd definely hate that murderer! I'd want to kill him myself, or at least personally give him the death sentence and or life sentence.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Phantom Penguin at 5:05PM, May 22, 2007
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ZeroVX
Are you 100% sure?

The only way you could actually say that you could live with that is if you had already killed someone.

Have you?
No, I spent my year and a half in Iraq learning to knit sweaters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Phantom_Fury

But how can you forgive a person who willingly kicked in another persons head?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Aurora Moon at 6:12PM, May 22, 2007
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But how can you forgive a person who willingly kicked in another persons head?

That's where the drunk factor comes in. Yeah, I suppose it would still count as willingly kicking an person's head in…
though out criminal history, drunk people kill people in all plenty of manners. They always pay the price for thier impaired judgement. A lot of them have the quilt that they have to live with, for doing things that they would NOT NORMALLY DO HAD THEY HAD BEEN SOBER. Remorse along with this thought: “WTF were I thinking?! Geez, only if I could go back in time to stop it.”

So while I'd still habor some strong painful feelings, I'd forgive the person…. provided that I see evidence that the person has truly grasped what he/she did, and that he/she really feels the guilt for it.

And then also of course there's the Youth factor. If the person was young enough to have rest of his/her life to reform, to make up for what he/she did…..
Well, I'd want that person to have the chance to atone for what he/she did.

of course those are the only conditons I'd forgive a person under, to be honest.
If the person felt no remorse, and were only gonna contuine to commit stupid dangerous acts, etc…. then I'd want that bastard/bitch to suffer… find some way to make that creep understand the pain.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Phantom Penguin at 6:42PM, May 22, 2007
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This kinda reminds me of when here in Michigan a drunk driver killed a entire family.
Guess what? He didn't spend a day in jail, because of what was said above. He was drunk. So they said he wasn't in the right mindset to be prositcuted. He made the choice to drink therefore knew what could possibly happen.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Aurora Moon at 6:57PM, May 22, 2007
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Phantom Penguin
This kinda reminds me of when here in Michigan a drunk driver killed a entire family.
Guess what? He didn't spend a day in jail, because of what was said above. He was drunk. So they said he wasn't in the right mindset to be prositcuted. He made the choice to drink therefore knew what could possibly happen.

Hmm. yeah that situation is really unfair… even if he was drunk, even if he was truly sorry, etc… he should still suffer consquences for his actions. So to have nothing happen….(shakes head).
I'm an “you reap what ye sow” kind of person.

forgiveness and the legal system is two competely different things for me, though.

It's one thing to be able to forgive… but it's another thing competely for the legal system to just do nothing while an person goes off the hook even though he/she caused an death.

That's just like an bad parent, you know? “Oh, my child did something horrible. But I understand why he did it, and he's impaired in his judgement at times…. So I'll do nothing.”
That way, that child learns nothing. and the rest of the children in the household learns that they could possibly get away with it in that same way.

An good parent would be like this: “I understand why you did it, and I forgive you.. But…. you still need to understand that your actions shall result in this punishment.”

you might say it's bad to compare the legal system and parenthood… But lately there's been a lot of adults acting like children. the lack of personal responsbility…
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Phantom Penguin at 7:37PM, May 22, 2007
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The legal system and parenting are alot alike your right.

I just hate the idea of “I was drunk!” being a defence.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
ZeroVX at 12:32PM, May 23, 2007
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ZeroVX
Are you 100% sure?

The only way you could actually say that you could live with that is if you had already killed someone.

Have you?
No, I spent my year and a half in Iraq learning to knit sweaters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Phantom_Fury


You….were in Iraq?

Oh…..oh geez. I'm sorry, I didn't know.

Well, now I feel like a dick.
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM
Aurora Moon at 5:55PM, May 23, 2007
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I just hate the idea of “I was drunk!” being a defence.

Yeah, I guess it would have to depend on the type of situation. getting into an car drunk is much more serious than doing something stupid at an party that could be or is dangerous.

After all, you can easily stop some drunken idiot at an party who was beating the shit out of somebody if you happened to notice what he was doing.

But an Drunk guy in an car? Not so much.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Phantom Penguin at 6:56PM, May 23, 2007
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There was a policemen who got drunk in S. Korea, loaded and rifle, took some hand grenades and then started randomly killing people:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woo_Bum-kon#Uireyeong_massacre

He was drunk.

Drunk driving can bee seen as “just a dumb idea while drunk” also. What was sick is the guy thought it would be funny to beat that guys head in knowing he wasn't going to fight back, willingly did harm, knowing he was doing harm.
Second degree murder?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
ZeroVX at 10:44AM, May 28, 2007
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Yeah. Alcohol.

Remind me again why it was invented?

I mean, it's done soooooo much for the world that there must be a reason.
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM
Sea_Cow at 7:19PM, June 12, 2007
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I have this one friend. His Grampa always loved to play the lottery. He was a good guy, he just never won. Anyways, he was getting very old, when one day, he finally got the winning ticket. He was waiting in line, when out of the blue, he had a heart attack. So then, this other guy comes up to him, kicks him, reaches down, grabs the ticket, and runs away with it. Presumably, the guy got very rich and lived a long, happy life. In fact, he's probably alive today.
I am so happy to finally be back home
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:24PM
ZeroVX at 7:24AM, June 13, 2007
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*sigh*

All kinds to make a world, huh?

No wonder the Christians consider greed to be a big sin. And, while that ass may be living a good life, wait until he's dead. Ol' Satan will welcome him with open arms.

Besides, for all you know, something could happen to him any day now. He could lose his job, his house, a family member, etc.

That's karma for you.
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:57PM

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