Debate and Discussion

Religion in education
Pineapple at 8:05PM, April 30, 2008
(online)
posts: 276
joined: 4-21-2008
There is a thread in the Discussion forum about home schooling. Someone brought up the religion in education and that got me a thinkin'. Should religion be taught in schools, or should it be a separate issue only to be taught at home?

I think that religion could be taught at a high school level, but not at Primary school. Children at that age are to young and impressionable. I had some religious schooling when I was in Primary school and I thought that Jesus belonged in the same cattogory as the Tooth Fairy or Santa Clause. At one point in time I even asked the teacher what Jesus has to do with Santa (he told me that Santa wassn't real and got into a heap of trouble).

So what does everyone else think, should religion be separate from education?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
bobhhh at 8:25PM, April 30, 2008
(offline)
posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
yes, very seperate.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM
HippieVan at 8:30PM, April 30, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,443
joined: 3-15-2008
Religion belongs at home, or at the very least only in religious schools.

Seriously, how could you accommodate everyone even if you were only teaching it in high school? It doesn't make any sense and I don't think it would be beneficial to children's education.
Duchess of Friday Newsposts and the holy Top Ten
Have a comic milestone, a community project or some comic-related news you’d like to see in
a newspost? Send it to me via PQ or at hippievannews(at)gmail.com!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
Kilre at 8:35PM, April 30, 2008
(online)
posts: 221
joined: 9-25-2007
Sure, but only if it's both a separate course and somewhat of a survey of religions through time and the range of current religions that populate the world.

Let's be fair now.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
bobhhh at 10:53PM, April 30, 2008
(offline)
posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
No, fair would be inserting a secular science class in every sunday school and church sermon for every religious class inserted into schools.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM
Kilre at 11:11PM, April 30, 2008
(online)
posts: 221
joined: 9-25-2007
I suppose that would indeed be fair. But I disagree.

I've never known scientists who wanted to impose upon that segment of teaching, so I left it out of consideration; that, and we're arguing what might be taught in a public school. I'd consider church sermons and sunday school sessions to be “private” schooling. They're entitled to their way of thought in their institutions; let's focus on the public schools and not stoop to the religious right's level.

A course like I described, that doesn't proselytize one religion but instead covers a wide range of more than just the tired old Abrahamic religions might help people see the bigger world beyond their sheltered lives. Especially in high school, where young malleable minds are susceptible to outside ideas, that would be devastating to those who might want to keep this a “Christian Nation.”

Or am I being too optimistic again?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
Pineapple at 12:08AM, May 1, 2008
(online)
posts: 276
joined: 4-21-2008
Let's not leave out privet schools
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
Kilre at 12:38AM, May 1, 2008
(online)
posts: 221
joined: 9-25-2007
Religion, at least the Christian side of it, is already taught in many private schools; you're talking about teaching religion in schools; the State, at least in the US, can't mandate what private schools teach; It CAN have a say in public school curricula. To the best of my knowledge, which I admit is limited on the subject, only the governing body of the private school can change the curriculum, and they're not likely to do that unless they're in a tight situation that forces them to change it.

Hence, it's much easier to change public school courses than to change private school courses, and thus why we're currently having so many problems over teaching religion in the public, and state-funded, realm.

So you can see my problem when you mentioned “teaching religion in schools.” I don't think we're likely to have an effect on private schools.

That said, I still stand by what I said should be the way to teach religion in schools. Take that as my answer.

Kilre
Sure, but only if it's both a separate course and somewhat of a survey of religions through time and the range of current religions that populate the world.

Kilre
A course like I described, that doesn't proselytize one religion but instead covers a wide range of more than just the tired old Abrahamic religions might help people see the bigger world beyond their sheltered lives. Especially in high school, where young malleable minds are susceptible to outside ideas, that would be devastating to those who might want to keep this a “Christian Nation.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
imshard at 12:40AM, May 1, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,961
joined: 7-26-2007
Separate. My believe is that one should not be taught at the expense of the other, however. I worked for a school district in a bible thumper state. It was still riddled with atheists, who have made a religion out of rooting out and convincing kids not to believe in the spiritual teachings of their families and friends.

Religion has no place in publicly funded schools and I mean NO place. You want to teach your kids about the torah, the vedas, the bible, the quran, the tripitaka, even the goddamn necronomicon, or whatever else you use then take them to your place of worship and have a class there.

Still the US is a place of freedom and you and and your children should not have whatever crazy cooky beliefs you hold attacked by a public employee let alone a teacher, especially in the guise of education. Its a careful balance, but it can be done.

Don't be a stick in the mud traditionalist! Support global warming!

Tech Support: The Comic!! Updates Somedays!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
Frostflowers at 5:53AM, May 1, 2008
(online)
posts: 689
joined: 10-8-2006
Speaking from the perspective of the Swedish school system - we had our first class about religion in third grade - we talked about Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, etc., etc. - and so on. It was never about teaching us a specific religion - it was always about making us aware of what the basics of the different religions were about, so that we might understand them better.

That kind of religious education works for me.
The Continued Misadventures of Bonebird - a poor bird's quest for the ever-elusive and delicious apples.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:31PM
Vagabond at 6:28AM, May 1, 2008
(online)
posts: 93
joined: 1-30-2006
I think that learning about religions better helps you understand how people who follow it think and make their decisions. It's also a huge cultural factor, so to ignore a question of, “What does it exactly mean to be a Muslim?” in a class discussing the Middle East is a mistake.

Really, there just has to be the subtle changes to test questions (ie, saying “according to Christians” when asking a question about Jesus) to avoid any indication of preference.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it should be integrated into courses covering cultural aspects rather than given its own separate course.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
plas at 12:17PM, May 1, 2008
(offline)
posts: 47
joined: 4-5-2008
I believe it should be separate unless it is a course surveying World Religions (which gives a fair and objective review of major religions around the world and throughout history). Also this course should be taught late at the high school level (grade 11 or 12) and not a mandatory course but rather just an option.

Also, the whole concept of religious schools funded by the government is something that I don't agree with. If you want to go to a religious school then they should be set up like a private school where you have to pay to attend, government funding should not go towards a secular cause on account of the whole separation between church and state thingy people seem to forget about.

The separate school board idea was something that was a major issue in the last provincial election in Ontario, Canada, and was a main reason why the Candidate who suggested it lost the election (and didn't even get elected in his own riding). Yet despite the public backlash Ontario seems to be taking a step backwards, horribly so, and is reinstating racially segregated schools… that just kind of irks me… sorry, kind of off topic…
I has no picture :(
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:46PM
crazyninny at 1:00PM, May 1, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,457
joined: 7-20-2006
As a seperate course in order for kids to understand and know about other reiligions around the world.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:49AM
bobhhh at 4:33PM, May 1, 2008
(offline)
posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
imshard
Separate. My believe is that one should not be taught at the expense of the other, however. I worked for a school district in a bible thumper state. It was still riddled with atheists, who have made a religion out of rooting out and convincing kids not to believe in the spiritual teachings of their families and friends.

Religion has no place in publicly funded schools and I mean NO place. You want to teach your kids about the torah, the vedas, the bible, the quran, the tripitaka, even the goddamn necronomicon, or whatever else you use then take them to your place of worship and have a class there.

Still the US is a place of freedom and you and and your children should not have whatever crazy cooky beliefs you hold attacked by a public employee let alone a teacher, especially in the guise of education. Its a careful balance, but it can be done.



I agree atheism has no place in schools either. To denounce teaching kids religion in school and then try to indoctrinate them as atheists is the worst kind of hypocrisy.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM
Kilre at 7:22PM, May 1, 2008
(online)
posts: 221
joined: 9-25-2007
bobhhh
imshard
Separate. My believe is that one should not be taught at the expense of the other, however. I worked for a school district in a bible thumper state. It was still riddled with atheists, who have made a religion out of rooting out and convincing kids not to believe in the spiritual teachings of their families and friends.

Religion has no place in publicly funded schools and I mean NO place. You want to teach your kids about the torah, the vedas, the bible, the quran, the tripitaka, even the goddamn necronomicon, or whatever else you use then take them to your place of worship and have a class there.

Still the US is a place of freedom and you and and your children should not have whatever crazy cooky beliefs you hold attacked by a public employee let alone a teacher, especially in the guise of education. Its a careful balance, but it can be done.



I agree atheism has no place in schools either. To denounce teaching kids religion in school and then try to indoctrinate them as atheists is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

I'm in agreement as well.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
Pineapple at 7:40PM, May 1, 2008
(online)
posts: 276
joined: 4-21-2008
I was doing my prac in a public primary school and it was around Easter. My supervising teacher was covertly trying to push Christianity (she wanted to the kids to make burial mound snow globes. And she asked the class if the knew where Easter came from, I put and my hand and she asked me. I said that it was the Pagen celbration of spring and new life and that is why we have bunnys and eggs.

The teacher wassn't very happy with me.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
bravo1102 at 8:12PM, May 1, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,385
joined: 1-21-2008
It's already part of the World Culture/Civilization curricula. You review the beliefs and origins and influence of various faiths. When I designed my Medieval Studies curriculum I had to go over Holy Mother Church in Europe as well as the Crusades and Classical Islam. However, I also reviewed the beliefs of Vikings and Manicheans and Cathars. Equal time and neutral presentation.

There is also the World Literature curriculum which includes the Bible as literature and now has some excerpts some the Kor'an as well.

You're not teaching the religion, but about the religion and how it has affected history and culture. And if you're a teacher worth a bucket of warm spit your own faith (or lack thereof) NEVER comes into the classroom. You're there to get the young skulls full of mush to think about this stuff for themselves, not shove your opinions down their throat. It's not about faith in the public schools, it's about knowledge.

In private schools as a teacher of Social Studies it was not my job to teach religion just do my job with the history and culture curricula. That was the rabbis' and priests' job. They taught the religion as religion, I did religion as culture.

It's so simple.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
Product Placement at 7:57PM, May 3, 2008
(online)
posts: 7,078
joined: 10-18-2007
If I understand the American constitution correctly then the government is required to ban all forms of religious education.

Back home religios matters is more involved in politics. There is no seperation between state and church. We have a state religion which is Lutherin and it gets about 0.5% of the taxes.

We have theological education shortly before confirmation. Throughout primary school we are tought bible stories and introduced to other religions as well although it focuses heavily on christianity.

Now here's the funny thing. Technicaly, by founding your own religion and geting people to register as members of your church, those 0.5% that they would pay in taxes would now go to you. So if you claim to be the next messiah, why not pop over here. ^^
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
piraterpg at 10:00AM, May 6, 2008
(offline)
posts: 114
joined: 8-14-2007
Religion should not be taught in school, if it were to be taught in school it should do so on equal levels: that is to say that all religions are taught.

www.drunkduck.com/pirateRPG
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:44PM
shadowmagi at 5:44PM, May 6, 2008
(offline)
posts: 99
joined: 12-13-2006
I think there should be coursed available in high schools to study different religions (from a practical, “what is this?” stand point, just like math or english) and their beliefs and practices and learn about them. But as for kids BEING religious, I think that's a personal, at-home deal.

*Psst*
….
(i like feedback~!)
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:32PM
imshard at 7:03PM, May 6, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,961
joined: 7-26-2007
Its the difference between learning about and practicing a certain religion that counts. Once you get a little to far into any religion though you begin preaching it instead. Acknowledgment of a religion's existence and the way its tenets affect the world is fine but anymore than that runs a risk. Religious topics become inflammatory to many people even when presented fairly.
Don't be a stick in the mud traditionalist! Support global warming!

Tech Support: The Comic!! Updates Somedays!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
dueeast at 8:03AM, May 7, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,093
joined: 5-6-2007
It would be impossible to make a “fair” system involving religion and school, which is why it only belongs in private and religious schools. So on the one hand, I understand the hard stance on prayer in schools but I do not like the leanings towards school systems allowing Islamic prayer in schools. I say that with no malice, just hey, if one type of religious prayer isn't allowed, none should be, right? It's only fair.

That's probably a separate debate topic, isn't it?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
imshard at 9:13AM, May 7, 2008
(online)
posts: 2,961
joined: 7-26-2007
dueeast
It would be impossible to make a “fair” system involving religion and school, which is why it only belongs in private and religious schools. So on the one hand, I understand the hard stance on prayer in schools but I do not like the leanings towards school systems allowing Islamic prayer in schools. I say that with no malice, just hey, if one type of religious prayer isn't allowed, none should be, right? It's only fair.

That's probably a separate debate topic, isn't it?

No I think it fits in this discussion just fine. Prayer is an integral part of many religions. Allowing one religion to practice means they should all get equal time or else none of them should.

Moments of silence did the trick because it was a fair and largly impartial, though now they are being shot down by the ACLU, and other various groups for some reason.
Don't be a stick in the mud traditionalist! Support global warming!

Tech Support: The Comic!! Updates Somedays!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
bravo1102 at 2:38PM, May 7, 2008
(online)
posts: 3,385
joined: 1-21-2008
ACLU is often Knee-jerk “liberalism” and the protection of a vocal minority at the expense of a silent majority. A moment of silence is often seen as an excuse for putting prayers back in school even though the student could be thinking anything in that moment including some very unreligious thoughts.

The best argument is similar to the one about no atheists in foxholes. During an exam there is prayer in school. As long as no one gets up in front of the class and leads the students in prayer, there should not be any probelm with it.

And here I am a militant atheist saying this. But then I had to teach about the history of Islam to a class full of Baptists (Irony: one young lady was named for the wife of Mohammad; Kadijah) Walking on eggs and treading the fine line trying not to inflame anyone. There was also the one student who was a member of the Nation of Islam.

It can be done and the curricula insists that it be done several times during the education of a child. (In NJ 6th-7th grade Social Studies, with detailed treatment in optional electives; High School World Civilization with Advanced placement and electives including a World Religions class)

I must admit though, there were times where it was very hard to keep the tone of voice neutral when going over some religious doctrines (Transubstantiation, the Trinity, Virgin Birth, Mahayana Buddhism and so many more)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:32AM
Chernobog at 5:00PM, May 7, 2008
(offline)
posts: 926
joined: 11-3-2007
Because religion has impacted history, it should at least be mentioned.
However, quoting verse or what not isn't appropriate. That's more dogma, not generalized learning. I could see religion being discussed in a clinical sense within history or a philosophy course, but never as an accompanied device in which to preach, declare righteousness, or speak from a position of preference. There's enough of that within public history. In any event, if taught within the context of history, the approach might best be summarized. Indeed, there are a lot of religions, both then and now.
 
 
“You tell yourself to just
enjoy the process,” he added. “That whether you succeed or fail, win or
lose, it will be fine. You pretend to be Zen. You adopt detachment, and
ironic humor, while secretly praying for a miracle.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:41AM
Daxy at 5:56PM, May 7, 2008
(online)
posts: 27
joined: 2-18-2008
Frostflowers
Speaking from the perspective of the Swedish school system - we had our first class about religion in third grade - we talked about Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, etc., etc. - and so on. It was never about teaching us a specific religion - it was always about making us aware of what the basics of the different religions were about, so that we might understand them better.

That kind of religious education works for me.
Agreed. I don't think religion should be taught in such a way as to convert kids or to preach but it can't hurt to be more aware of different views and opinions. It's better to understand things than completely shut them out.
*edits*
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:09PM
mapaghimagsik at 6:27PM, May 11, 2008
(offline)
posts: 711
joined: 9-8-2006
I think religions should be taught in school. They help us learn about other cultures.

If I want to get steeped in a religion, I can go to Sunday school. Churches are free to run them, and they don't get taxed, so nothing stops them from setting them up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
beautifully_demonic at 4:59PM, May 13, 2008
(offline)
posts: 57
joined: 4-11-2007
well I have absolutely nothing against any form of religion (I myself am an athiest) but I do not like the idea of teaching religion in schools if you are only focusing on one religion in particular! in my school you have to study religion and that is only christianity from 1st grade to 5th grade but in 6th grade you do learn a very tiny little amount about buddism and muslim and islam but this was when the Iraq war had begun and thus most of the children in my class persieved other religions to be evil of a sort!

this makes absolutely no sence! and then just this year we were supposed to be confirmed but I am an athiest and decided not to because I wwill not make a comittment to a god I don´t believe in! but the confirmation classes were on school time and thus I had to sit through them! the priest even MADE me reherse the vow to god with all the other kids ! … I didn´t feel good afterwards because it just isn´t right to do this !

but teaching religion in schools and positively focusing on as many religios as possible and not just christianity if fine by me as long as when I have children they wont force it upon them !
(\__/) | This is Bunny.
(O.o ) | Copy Bunny into your signature to help
(> < ) | him on his way to world domination!

1f u c4n r34d 7h1s u r34lly n33d 2 g3t l41d
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:16AM
jissai at 11:39PM, June 9, 2008
(offline)
posts: 101
joined: 2-7-2006
i do think that religion should be taught, but that every major religion in history should be taught, and their possibble origins, like teaching christianity, judaism,paganism,and the ancient babolon and egyptian religions together.

that should get our kids thinking and accepting other cultures. i remember in grade school that i disliked ghandi because he wasnt a christian ( i was taught ignorance in church every sunday) so i think that including it in the school curriculum would be beneficial to the kids. it shouldnt be taught as facts though, but as mythologys.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:09PM
lothar at 4:25AM, June 10, 2008
(online)
posts: 1,299
joined: 1-3-2006
it should be presented as mythology , because that's what it is .
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved