General Discussion

rob liefeld
subcultured at 4:51AM, Nov. 5, 2006
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I found his video diary on u-tube. rob looks really different now…

about capt. america's boobs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFqXs6vYvO8

creating a page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ansx4JChFE

coloring a page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmg-GXGJmIk


J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:00PM
ozoneocean at 5:13AM, Nov. 5, 2006
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Wow. I only watched the second one so far (because I find vid diaries a little boring), but it was amazing to see he works in such a simple way! I haven't worked like that for years… And he's still doing it. Interesting.
His drawing looks a bit better there than it used to.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
subcultured at 7:33AM, Nov. 5, 2006
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however you feel about the guy, he made millions already.. bad drawings or not. I give him props for that. He doesn't stop even when there is a lot of hate on him.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:00PM
ozoneocean at 8:13AM, Nov. 5, 2006
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Granted.
It was just- pens, tracing paper, colour mockups? WTF?
I suppose it's just hard to change your old ways.

Still, it's always nice to see how another artist workes.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
ccs1989 at 8:32AM, Nov. 5, 2006
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Just for a comparison, how is one supposed to work, ozone?

The ways I've seen most pros work is that they do a layout, then a final page, and that's all. What are the full steps that you use?

Liefelds art looks a little better, but I still think he should take an anatomy course.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
Rich at 8:38AM, Nov. 5, 2006
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Damn. Classic coloring is great, but digital is at a point where it can mimic most every aspect of traditional methods.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:06PM
ozoneocean at 9:13AM, Nov. 5, 2006
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ccs1989
Just for a comparison, how is one supposed to work, ozone?
Well, “one” can work however “one” chooses. ;)

But for efficiency's sake, it's generally a good idea to use the best tools and methods available when you want the best results, especially when you have deadlines and other outside pressures… And at the moment, that is of course digital: your files are infinitely more editable, more portable, retain more quality through the process, etc.

The older ways aren't bad, they're just older… Ah well, I suppose I shouldn't be that surprised, I still find it amazing to read that Scot Kurtz is only now “learning” to use his tablet properly, and even then he only picked up tips from the Penny Arcade guys…

But all that aside, it's perfectly fine to make a comic with whatever materials and methods you choose! I was just surprised to see him working on a “job” comic with those methods. The world's a funny place though, I've worked in Pro graphic design studios where the best computers they had were barely as good as my old redundant backup computer.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
Corvin at 11:19AM, Nov. 5, 2006
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ozoneocean
I still find it amazing to read that Scot Kurtz is only now “learning” to use his tablet properly, and even then he only picked up tips from the Penny Arcade guys…

who had to go to applegeeks for help.

really what i want to see is straight up a tutorial on translating what i script into a single page layout. i just want to watch or hear someone do that, because that's my problem. writing a script i can do. taking a rough sketch to a finished drawing i can do. it's that nebulous area where youre translating one medium into another laying out everything that confounds me.

and by everything i include dialog balloons and how to keep them off main characters.

Corvin
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:46AM
ccs1989 at 12:13PM, Nov. 5, 2006
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I recommend “Making Comics”, Corvin.

Still, I'm not all that surprised that web-comic artists like Kurtz are still getting the hang of the tablet thing. It's a new experience, and the guy has to create a new page every day (granted, no backgrounds, but still…)
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
Darth Mongoose at 2:27PM, Nov. 5, 2006
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I don't use fancy stuff for drawing really. I have a drawing board with a slip-on sliding ruler that I clip my work to, but once it's on there, I draw lying on my front on my bedroom floor. I disagree on the ‘CG can mimic’ thing. If that were the case, I'd use CG instead of pens and markers. I can spot CG art when I see it, it often looks so cold and clinical, shiny, all the same, plasticky. I like traditional media because there's no ‘undo’ button, meaning that not just any old person can use them well, and you get these subtle little textures and happy accidents that you never get when CGing. With CG, any idiot could mess with their image for hours and hours and hours to get it to look right, it's like playing a game where you have infinite lives, which doesn't appeal to me at all. You could walk up to me in the street, hand me some paper and something like a book to lean on, and I could draw you something of the same quality that you see in the comic. That's something you couldn't do with a lot of CG artists.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:08PM
subcultured at 5:52PM, Nov. 5, 2006
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Darth Mongoose
I can spot CG art when I see it, it often looks so cold and clinical, shiny, all the same, plasticky. I like traditional media because there's no ‘undo’ button, meaning that not just any old person can use them well, and you get these subtle little textures and happy accidents that you never get when CGing. With CG, any idiot could mess with their image for hours and hours and hours to get it to look right, it's like playing a game where you have infinite lives, which doesn't appeal to me at all. You could walk up to me in the street, hand me some paper and something like a book to lean on, and I could draw you something of the same quality that you see in the comic. That's something you couldn't do with a lot of CG artists.

I am a CG artist, and I don't spend a lot of time perfecting a page. I like keeping the brush strokes in there and those “happy accidents”. it's all about technique…you can go very neat or you can do very dirty with cg, just like traditional media. I'm sure some of the masters of the classic era spend a long time perfecting each painting. so you can't generalize like that.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:00PM
ozoneocean at 6:51PM, Nov. 5, 2006
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Darth Mongoose
I can spot CG art when I see it, it often looks so cold and clinical, shiny, all the same, plasticky. I like traditional media because there's no ‘undo’ button, meaning that not just any old person can use them well, and you get these subtle little textures and happy accidents that you never get when CGing. With CG, any idiot could mess with their image for hours and hours and hours to get it to look right, it's like playing a game where you have infinite lives…
An interesting but immature analysis. The only “CG” art is “art” that the computer actually creates, like fractals and 3D renders. The term isn't called “computer generated” for nothing! Computers are just another tool that an artist can use, except they are one of THE best tools. I studied art academically for about 11 years before I even touched digital art, and even before I studied was good at what I did. I've used more art media than most people will ever use (and I've mastered quite a lot of those), but when I seriously started putting my art on the web on the 1st of January 2000, I stared talking to some digital artists after seeing their work up in the galleries I was using.

Well, when I first saw it, I thought, “aw, the computer must make it easier”, “undo levels”, all that crap, simply because I didn't know and I was a little envious of the quality their work obviously retained through the transition to a web JPG and all other printed media. I soon learned I was 100% wrong, their skill with traditional media was just as good, without exception. The simple truth is, if you're good, it doesn't matter what you use, but there are some tools that are better for certain applications. Digital is best for print media and the web, which is what it was specifically designed for.

After that I had to get my own tablet and upgrade my system to focus on digital art production, which I did in 2001. It took me a while to make the full transition to digital, especially because I still rented a painting studio with other artists where I worked every day, as well as working on sculpture commissions, but I'm so glad I finally did. I've saved HEAPS on materials, storage is no longer a problem, and using my art for any kid of work or advertising is SO much easier and smoother.

The moral of the story is, just because you drive a car, doesn't mean you can't be a bloody good horse rider as well, but being a horse rider in a car driving world will limit you.

-that doesn't mean there aren't lazy digi artists out there who rely too much on simple effects, but that affects there work in an obvious way, and they'd likely be just as lazy in whatever medium they chose.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
Rich at 7:08PM, Nov. 5, 2006
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CG art is far more difficult than it would initially suggest. Just like traditional, not everyone can do it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:06PM
Darth Mongoose at 1:05AM, Nov. 6, 2006
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You could call that immature or unprofessional til you're blue in the face, but the fact is that Marvel and DC comics, though they now colour in CG, their pencillers draw on paper with pencils and their inkers draw on paper with pens.
Yes, the best CG artists are people who can draw the old fashioned way, but I've still met a lot of lazy ones who couldn't sketch for toffee. Of course, I've met non-CG artists who don't even know how to open photoshop, never mind use it, but it can't hide the disappointment you feel when you're at a convention, somebody shows you some lovely CG prints and then you see their sketchbook and realise the reason their CG stuff looks good is because they've drawn it with a smoothing pen tool at 500% size, but their line quality with a pencil is terrible.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:08PM
ozoneocean at 1:33AM, Nov. 6, 2006
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Darth Mongoose
You could call that immature or unprofessional til you're blue in the face…
You do like to go of half-cocked Darth, I've noticed that. ;)
You got my first sentance jumbled, I said "An interesting but immature analysis". I wasn't calling the use of pens and tracing paper immature at all. Believe what you want Darth. I've outlined my reasoning, you can take or leave it.
-judging by your first sentance, you left it at my first sentance.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
Darth Mongoose at 2:23AM, Nov. 6, 2006
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I read your whole thing, it was your condescending and patronising tone that made me half cocked.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:08PM
ozoneocean at 3:10AM, Nov. 6, 2006
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Oh dear… :(

Thank you for the support Tater.

Ok then, we're done here.
I'm very sorry that things turned nasty and I'm sorry for anything I did to contribute to it. If you don't mind I'd like to lock this now and if anyone wants to continue the discussion with me personally thay can PQ me.

I'm sorry for any offence taken by Darth, Tater or anyone else.

~Ozone
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
SpANG at 1:58PM, Nov. 6, 2006
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Tater's comments have been removed and his account has been frozen. Next stop, ban.

I am extremely tired of little jerks like Tater running at the mouth and flaming people. If I see it again, gone.

Darth Mongoose, your anaysis of CG art is both abrupt and wrong. As Ozone and Sub would both tell you, it is an art, and should be treated as such. To disrespect the craft is to be ignorant of it. But you apologized (sorry I think I erased that post because you were also convo'ing with Tater), and you are entitled to your opinion. So let's move on, shall we?
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:52PM

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