Debate and Discussion

Sarah Palin .. the devil or just out right scary ?
rufus_edge at 10:00AM, Oct. 22, 2008
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Every candidate in history has had to pay for hair and makeup (well, every candidate except Nixon because he refused to wear makeup). I find it sexist that you would bring that up, but I agree that image is more important than the issues, and that's wrong. Michelle Obama's image makeover is an example of this. In a perfect world, we wouldn't care at all about how the candidates look or how they speak.

Although we've gotten way off topic about terrorism, the point is that Sarah Palin never lied about Obama's connection to a terrorist. It's up to you to decide if it's something that you should be concerned about. She is not spawning lies and hate.

I listed Sarah Palin's life accomplishments, and I think they qualify her to be Vice President. I also think that if she didn't let her “out right scariness” get in the way of her becoming the most popular and successful governor in the country, it won't be a problem in The White House. If you want to intelligently argue about why you disagree, go ahead.

And Ronsey, silly me, I forgot that Wikipedia is the ultimate authority of unbiased journalism.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
Vindibudd at 10:07AM, Oct. 22, 2008
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I gave you the United States Constitution. That's all I need.
Ronson
Palin is right and I know it galls you but the truth is the truth.

No, it galls me that you cling to something you obviously have no knowledge of because it suits your world view.

Palin said she would be in charge of the Senate. The VP title “President of the Senate” confers no ability to be in charge of the Senate. It just doesn't. I'm not saying a VP has no duties to congress … but being in charge? I don't think so.

But hey, knock yourself out. Show me where the Vice President actually presides over the senate. Except, of course, for tallying the electoral votes from a presidential election. I'm sure you will not do that, of course, instead you'll whine that you're right and I'm wrong … and never offer proof.

I can't show you proof that the VP is not in charge of the senate, except to guide you to the senate records that are now online and show you that the VP very rarely attends, and only then when there's a tie to break or a ceremonial duty. That will, of course, not be something you'd actually be willing to look at - because of time and because it refutes your ridiculous stance.

Tomorrow, Sarah Palin will say something else that the rest of the world will roll their eyes over, but you will adjust yourself to her perspective - again - and pretend that you always believed whatever nutty thing she says. That's how you guys work. You have a rock solid belief with absolutely no intellectual curiousity backing you up.

Listen, I know you will cling to whatever your leaders tells you is true, and will twist and contort to it every time. It's silly and ridiculous, but that's what the Republican party has become.

So it's okay to bomb government buildings and be proud of it if you don't kill anybody?
What was he trying to do? Put a little scare into the government?

Uh, yeah. That's exactly what he was trying to do. He thought the thousands of people dying in Viet Nam due to almost incomprehensible calculations by our government was something that needed to be stopped.

I don't agree with his methods. I certainly don't think that someone like him should gain public office, let alone run for President. I do think that someone like him, if he submits to our legal system and becomes a free citizen eventually, should be allowed to serve his community if he can prove he has the ability to help it.

Republicans and Democrats from his community welcome his participation because he obviously has other talents than the ones he displayed in his youth. You don't know him, neither do I, but you automatically assume that the version you have settled on of Ayers is the correct one.

I know neither of you ever watch conservative news, or listen to conservative radio, or read conservative newspapers - but you're parroting them nonetheless. I'm sure it's a coincidence that you are as wrong as they are for exactly the same reasons.

Someone
You sir, are a moron.

I believe that is a personal attack, and I would appreciate if the moderators or administrators would issue a public statement as well as a private notification that you are in violation of Drunk Duck's etiquette rules.

Also, the statement is factually inaccurate. Like most of what has been posted by you.

Terrorism is never acceptable.

The fact that anyone would defend an act of terrorism disqualifies him as a human being, in my opinion.

The Boston Tea Party?
The storming of the Bastille?
The Contras (armed by a Republican Administration)?
Our funding of opposition to pro-Soviet forces in Afghanistan?

Look, I know you have no knowledge of history or your party, so that isn't fair. “Terrorism” has always been a very hazily defined term that suits whoever is levelling the attack against their opponent.

And I personally think that Ayers did more harm than good for his stance against the Viet Nam War back then. I think that resorting to violence is going to turn more against you than for you. I also think that if you commit the crime, you should submit to the punishment.

But I think the broad brush you guys like to paint with is dangerous to this country.

And painting Obama as a terrorist sympathizer is wrong and dangerous to the fabric of this country. Obama is what he always has been - a moderate democrat who thinks that we as a country would be better with a thriving middle class. He didn't choose Ayer's position in Chicago society, but since he was there he had to accept it. Just like McCain accepts the many criminals and “terrorists” in his party.

Let me make this clear: you are not a moron, but your argument is moronic. Especially the bit about being disqualified as a human being, which is a physical condition and not a status conferred by ideology.

I specifically stated Barry Hussein's relationship with this inhuman monster using facts. I even posted a link that goes into great detail on the subject. I left it up to you to decide whether or not they're close.

But the truth is, as Sarah Palin stated, Barack Obama is friends with an unrepentant terrorist and Barack Obama started his political career in the home of an unrepentant terrorist.

No, you posted an opinion based on nothing and peppered with lies. Just like in this post. I suggest you actually research this stuff from a neutral source, not a hardcore right wing site as you obviously have.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
SpANG at 4:09PM, Oct. 22, 2008
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rufus_edge
Although we've gotten way off topic about terrorism, the point is that Sarah Palin never lied about Obama's connection to a terrorist. It's up to you to decide if it's something that you should be concerned about. She is not spawning lies and hate.
Except she DID lie. Saying someone “pals around with” someone that they have a faint association with is A FUCKING LIE. If you don't think so, you are a racist.

You may be asking yourself “How the hell did he come to that conclusion?” Simple. I used “Republican logic”. Your party contains people that are not voting for Obama for the single reason that he is black. You have every white supremacist on your side. They are with you in rallies, they say things like “KILL HIM” and all that fun stuff. You are associated with racists. You “pal around” with them. You are, therefore, a racist.

rufus_edge
And Ronsey, silly me, I forgot that Wikipedia is the ultimate authority of unbiased journalism.
Yeah. Everyone knows that Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
rufus_edge at 5:37PM, Oct. 22, 2008
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And in the course of that “faint asociation”, Obama palled around with him. He stopped to chat with him when he was riding his bike last year. His campaign said that. If you want to infer that they had probably had friendly encounters on other occasions, you have a right to do that, but this one example is sufficient to justify “palling around”.
Here are the facts about their relationship:
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/12/the-obama-ayers-top-ten-highlights-of-the-20-year-obama-ayers-connection/
I apologize that it didn't come from “ObamaMessiah2008.com”

“Yeah. Everyone knows that Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are.”
That's the point. Neither are NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The LA Times, Rolling Stone, and The AP. You have to obtain opinions from multiple sources, think about it, and make up your own mind.
If you don't like other people having their own opinions, you can elect Nancy Pelosi president or move to Cuba.

The fact that you will talk about anything besides qualifications leads me to believe that you're admitting that Sarah Palin has the achievements necessary to become Vice President and Barack Obama does not. Your silence on the subject says it all. Prove me wrong if you can; ignore the subject if you can't.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
rufus_edge at 5:48PM, Oct. 22, 2008
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By the way, your sarcastic comment regarding “Republican logic” proves that all the people that support John McCain are not insane, violent psychopaths. It's similar to how you misinterpreted my sarcastic comment about George W Bush and admitted that Obama is not necessarily smart because he want to Harvard, and even if he was smart, it wouldn't necessarily make him a good president.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
dragonrider at 6:54PM, Oct. 22, 2008
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Ruffie, Got a book you and Vindi should both read, its called “Blackwater” the complete history to date of the Religious Reichs private Militia the one that has been ordered out of Sanddune Nam by the Iraq Government due to their trigger happy ways. Gives some real insite in the backroom operations of the GOP (Great Oil Plunderers)
Do NOT meddle in the affairs of Dragons. Because, YOU are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:16PM
SpANG at 7:24PM, Oct. 22, 2008
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Nice “fair and balanced” link there Rufus.
rufus_edge
The fact that you will talk about anything besides qualifications leads me to believe that you're admitting that Sarah Palin has the achievements necessary to become Vice President and Barack Obama does not. Your silence on the subject says it all. Prove me wrong if you can; ignore the subject if you can't.

Like I said before, it doesn't matter to you anyway so why bother? You'll just spin it the way you want to see it, even if it's an outright lie. You keep asking for it, but you really don't want to hear it. But here you go:

Obama's accomplishments
- Obama passed legislation with Republican Senator Jim Talent to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps. The tax credit covers 30 percent of the costs of switching one or more traditional petroleum pumps to E85, which is an 85 percent ethanol/15 percent gasoline blend.

- After a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama worked with law enforcement officials to require the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.

- His first law was passed with Republican Tom Coburn, a measure to rebuild trust in government by allowing every American to go online and see how and where every dime of their tax dollars is spent.

- Obama created the Illinois Earned Income Tax Credit for low-income working families in 2000 and successfully sponsored a measure to make the credit permanent in 2003. The law offered about $105 million in tax relief over three years.

- Obama joined forces with former U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL) to pass the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned gifts from lobbyists. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.

- As a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee, Senator Obama has fought to help Illinois veterans get the disability pay they were promised, while working to prepare the VA for the return of the thousands of veterans who will need care after Iraq and Afghanistan.

- He traveled to Russia with Republican Dick Lugar to begin a new generation of non-proliferation efforts designed to find and secure deadly weapons around the world.

- Obama has been a leading advocate for protecting the right to vote, helping to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act and leading the opposition against discriminatory barriers to voting.

- In the U.S. Senate, Obama introduced the STOP FRAUD Act to increase penalties for mortgage fraud and provide more protections for low-income homebuyers, well before the current subprime crisis began.

- Obama sponsored legislation to combat predatory payday loans, and he also was credited with lobbied the state to more closely regulate some of the most egregious predatory lending practices.

- Barack Obama introduced the Patriot Employer Act of 2007 to provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US; maintain their corporate headquarters in America; pay decent wages; prepare workers for retirement; provide health insurance; and support employees who serve in the military.

- Obama worked to pass a number of laws in Illinois and Washington to improve the health of women. His accomplishments include creating a task force on cervical cancer, providing greater access to breast and cervical cancer screenings, and helping improve prenatal and premature birth services.

- Obama has introduced and helped pass bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of no-bid federal contracts.

- Obama and Senator Feingold (D-WI) took on both parties and proposed ethics legislation that was described as the “gold standard” for reform. It was because of their leadership that ending subsidized corporate jet travel, mandating disclosure of lobbyists' bundling of contributions, and enacting strong new restrictions of lobbyist-sponsored trips became part of the final ethics bill that was signed into law.

—————————————————————————

Reasons I hate Sara Palin

The Hockey rink she built in Wasilla required raising taxes and sinking the town $20 million in debt. Can we say “George W. Bush”-style conservatism?

Palin's preacher invites a speaker to spew anti-semitic nonsense while she sits in the audience and listens. Also, her own church sounds as crazy as anything dished out by Obama's.

Bridge-to-Nowheregate. She was for it before she was against it. Took all the money she received for it, didn't give it back even after the bridge became an albatross. She lied about it at several conventions.

Palin lobbied Washington for frivolous funds. All this contradicts the whole Republican theme that this is a team of outside “reformers.”

She's vetoed legislation for wind and solar energy and is securely in the pockets of big oil (her husband works for British Petroleum). “Taking on the oil industry” for Sarah Palin means getting them to drill more and cough up more scratch for Alaskans. This is a “put Alaska first” policy not a “put America first” policy.

She fired her public safety commissioner because he refused to fire a state trooper who was the ex-husband of her sister and engaged in a bitter custody battle. Can we say “Bush Administration”? Although Palin's firing of Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority (though probably extremely unethical) on October 10, 2008, the Alaska Legislative Council unanimously voted to release the Branchflower investigative report which found that Sarah Palin "abused her power as governor“ in attempting to get Trooper Wooten fired.

She sounds totally clueless talking about Iraq or foreign policy. Palin claimed to have been to Ireland – it was merely a re-feuling stopover. She thinks that being able to see Russia from her house makes her a foreign policy genius.

Claimed to have been an anti-corruption crusader, actually ran Ted Stevens' political action committee and made appearances with him even after he was accused of corruption.

Not only is Palin anti-science, she wants to teach Creationism in schools. (Correction: Factcheck.org says she is ”open“ to teaching Creationism along side evolution. Since Creationism is not a science, Plenty of us find the ”openness“ to obfuscate science with religion pretty damn appalling.)

Soon after Sarah Palin was elected mayor of the foothill town of Wasilla, Alaska, she startled a local music teacher by insisting in casual conversation that men and dinosaurs coexisted on an Earth created 6,000 years ago – about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct. Apparently, the Flinstones were for real.

Palin attended convention for Alaskan Independence Party, which is devoted to ensuring that Alaska secedes from the union. Addressed the party convention this year. Founder of AIP said: ”The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government." Her husband Todd Palin was a registered member of the Alaska Independence Party from 1995-2002…



Palin's 17 Year old daughter is pregnant, but she personally slashed funding for teen pregnancy organization with a line-item veto despite a $5 billion Alaskan budget surplus due to rising oil prices.

When Palin was mayor of Wasilla, it was the only town in Alaska that forced rape victims to pay for their own rape kits. The state was forced to pass a law preventing the practice.

Despite her claims for helping special needs kids, Palin actually slashed funding for schools for special needs kids by 62%. [[]]]

Palin pressured a librarian to ban unspecified books, later fired her, but local residents pressured to re-hire her.

Palin sued the US government to block polar bears from being listed on a threatened species list.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
rufus_edge at 10:03PM, Oct. 22, 2008
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Congratulations. For someone who is so concerned about being “fair and balanced”, you sure put your own insane spin on the facts (can we say Bush administration?).

This won't surprise you, but I have problems with many of the things you said.
Let's start with the “outright lies”.

Liar
Palin claimed to have been to Ireland – it was merely a re-feuling stopover. She thinks that being able to see Russia from her house makes her a foreign policy genius.
LIE
Being in Ireland. Definition: Being in Ireland.
She never said the second statement.

Liar
Not only is Palin anti-science, she wants to teach Creationism in schools.
LIE
But you already admitted that. She said students should be allowed to “debate both sides” and “creationism doesn't have to be part of the curriculum.”

Liar
Alaskan Independence Party, which is devoted to ensuring that Alaska secedes from the union
LIE
They only want to have a vote on the topic.
“The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.”
http://www.akip.org/
Sarah Palin apparently respects the rights of others to have different political viewpoints, something you do not respect.

Liar
Palin actually slashed funding for schools for special needs kids by 62%.
LIE
She increased funding for special needs children, tripling it in some cases.
http://momocrats.typepad.com/momocrats/2008/09/update-sarah-pa.html

Liar
Palin pressured a librarian to ban unspecified books, later fired her, but local residents pressured to re-hire her.
LIE
The librarian said she asked a “what if” question about banning books. She was never pressured or fired.
http://www.librarian.net/stax/2366/sarah-palin-vp-nominee/

It seems to me that you're nothing but, as you said in your own words, “a big fucking liar”.





And you were careful about not lying in this one, but it offends me so much that I have to mention it now:
spang
When Palin was mayor of Wasilla, it was the only town in Alaska that forced rape victims to pay for their own rape kits.

This has nothing at all to do with her. The Chief of Police did it. This is what her spokeswoman said: " does not believe, nor has she ever believed, that rape victims should have to pay for an evidence-gathering test."

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
Ronson at 4:45AM, Oct. 23, 2008
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rufus_edge
Every candidate in history has had to pay for hair and makeup (well, every candidate except Nixon because he refused to wear makeup). I find it sexist that you would bring that up, but I agree that image is more important than the issues, and that's wrong. Michelle Obama's image makeover is an example of this. In a perfect world, we wouldn't care at all about how the candidates look or how they speak.

Remember when I said something like: Tomorrow Sarah Palin will say something else and you guys will defend it without thought? Well, this whole $150,000 for clothes and makeup proves it. Firstly because it's a sure sign of outrageous excess. Secondly because it may be a misuse of campaign funds. The campaign currently defends it saying they were planning on donating the clothes to charity afterwards. It's a gray area, I'll admit, but I have no doubt that if a report about something similar came out about the other side (I'm thinking John Edwards' haircut, here), you'd be jeering it all the way.

Although we've gotten way off topic about terrorism, the point is that Sarah Palin never lied about Obama's connection to a terrorist. It's up to you to decide if it's something that you should be concerned about. She is not spawning lies and hate.

You noticeably haven't defended any of McCain's ties with terrorists, which is interesting.



link here because the embedded video doesn't seem to work: McCain's Associations

…which mentions the anti-abortion extremist who praised a woman for shooting a doctor while at a speech that McCain attended, and who is now a fundraiser for McCain.

Add this:

McCain Backer's Firm Pleaded Guilty To Funding Terrorist Group In Colombia

And this:

McCain Transition Chief Aided Saddam In Lobbying Effort

And this (touched on by Olberman, in detail here):

McCain linked to group in Iran-Contra affair

…not to even mention G. Gordon Liddy who openly encouraged the killing of federal agents on his radio show. (Not to mention all the anti-American activities he was engaged in prior to his arrest and conviction. He, by the way, didn't turn himself in like Ayers did.)

I only mention these things to watch the somersaults you'll do to justify them … if you even attempt to address them. Certainly these folks that John McCain was not just “palling around” with but was actively accepting their money and valuing their judgement for his presidential bid deserve a tiny bit of scrutiny, eh?

I listed Sarah Palin's life accomplishments, and I think they qualify her to be Vice President. I also think that if she didn't let her “out right scariness” get in the way of her becoming the most popular and successful governor in the country, it won't be a problem in The White House. If you want to intelligently argue about why you disagree, go ahead.

Well, if her source of popularity - giving giant checks to Alaskans that were written out by the oil company - is the sort of governance she'd spearhead as President, I'd say she's too socialist for my blood.

And Ronsey, silly me, I forgot that Wikipedia is the ultimate authority of unbiased journalism.

Well, I think we can all agree that all journalism has a bias. But the Wikipedia stuff I quoted was a boiled down version of many of the things I've read and heard on the Ayers thing. You guys get a lot of facts wrong - or disregard certain facts so that you can pretend things are more dire than they are. Even the article you posted by Larry Johnston shows associations but not “palling around” by my definition. Your, of course, will vary only for Obama and not McCain (whose terrorist ties are listed above).

But what in particular are you referring to as biased? The argument - if you can call a loose collection of opinions tied together with seething hatred and a smattering of spun facts an argument - never disputed the facts as I had presented them.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Ronson at 5:00AM, Oct. 23, 2008
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rufus_edge
Congratulations. For someone who is so concerned about being “fair and balanced”, you sure put your own insane spin on the facts (can we say Bush administration?).

This won't surprise you, but I have problems with many of the things you said.
Let's start with the “outright lies”.

blah blah blah


Nice spinning of the facts. Citing a mission statement and ignoring the rhetoric of the members. Specifically referring to her mayorship, so you don't have to bring up her ranting as a town council member. Giving Palin a pass because she wasn't a good enough mayor to know what her cheif of police was doing, etc. Very well done.

The Ireland thing was in reference to her foreign experience. She claimed to have had some official business in Ireland - but she hadn't. Actually, I think the claim came from her spokesperson, who I suppose could have just been making stuff up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
SpANG at 7:14AM, Oct. 23, 2008
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rufus_edge
Congratulations. For someone who is so concerned about being “fair and balanced”, you sure put your own insane spin on the facts (can we say Bush administration?)…
Yeah, right… I'm the one that does that. Sigh.


I believe, as I said before, you are spinning things to adjust to your view. I will NEVER agree with you, you will NEVER agree with me. So why don't we just vote for who we want and keep the personal attacks at bay.

About that…. Look, I can understand that you don't agree with the things I say, but I'm not going to tolerate disrespect to me or anyone else on this board. You are being extremely insulting when I could be the same back.

There's a difference between accusing someone of repeating a lie because they are uninformed (which is what I do when I describe your talking points) and personally attacking someone and calling them on outright liar or a moron, or whatever. I haven't made personal attacks on you (just your candidates and their pundits, which are fair game in this discussion), but YOU HAVE now on several occasions to several people. If you wish to stay in this forum, you WILL show more restraint.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
rufus_edge at 1:33PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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Excuse me.
You're not a liar; you're just one who lies.
You're not a slave of the liberal media; you're just misinformed.
You're not a moron, you've just said moronic things.
You're not rude to me; you're just expressing rudeness in a way that is neither respectful nor clever (a la lipstick on a pig).
You're not extremely intolerant you're just, um, you know…

You did put a spin on the facts. Lying is part of that, and only including part of the truth is another part. If you wanted to list facts, there'd be no reason to include any personal opinions at all. There's no need to mention the Bush administration or go on a rant about why it's not acceptable to allow school children to consider creationism. These are not facts.
“Rush Limbaugh did it too” is no excuse.

I don't know if you're an outright liar and think I'm gullible, or if you've been mislead by the media because you're gullible.
Either way, I hope you learned a little about yourself.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
SpANG at 2:33PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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rufus_edge
I don't know if you're an outright liar and think I'm gullible, or if you've been mislead by the media because you're gullible.
Either way, I hope you learned a little about yourself.
Actually, I think you are WOEFULLY misinformed with the facts. I think YOU say moronic things. I think there is no way in hell I'd trust anything you write, because you are tainted. I think you intentionally spin scandals for governor Palin but I have no idea why. I think she is a despicable, incurious, idiot with power abuse issues (aka Female GWB ). I think in the future she'll be hailed as the Republicans' biggest mistake and a political joke.

I also think that Obama and Biden are going to clean her clock.

And guess what? Nothing you say is going to convince me otherwise. ;)

That's the truth. Deal with it.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
rufus_edge at 2:55PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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And yet you are still a liar.
I don't even care if I can convince you that you're wrong now. If Obama wins the election, it doesn't mean shit. What matters is that he proves himself to be the second coming of JFK and not Jimmy Carter, as I see it. I'm willing to be proven wrong by his actions, and I hope to God it happens, but I can't possibly imagine him not being the worst president in history. We can look back on this post in four years and see who's right.
Of course, I'm not saying that McCain and Palin will turn this country around. They have a chance, as does Obama, but I don't think any of these four are what we need.

I already told you which of your precious “scandals” were blatant lies. Many of the other ones do not apply in any way or are seriously lacking information. If you really want me to list reasons why Obama is unqualified using facts, I'll do it, just to show you that it's possible.

I like Sarah Palin because she gives me an oil check every month?
I think thats a pathetic and fraudulent attempt at a personal attack.
I'm from New York.
Your “opinion” is obviously brain-dead and phoney.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
SpANG at 3:03PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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Your spin on the scandals are just that, spin. They are not truth. You can believe them if you want, I choose not to listen to the weak-minded idiots that write that garbage just to get someone elected fraudulently.

The LIES AND SMEARS that you posted about Obama have ALL been debunked at this point. You can check out factcheck.org or snopes.com to see that I am correct.

So no. Let me make this perfectly clear because I guess I need to. You are not in any contact with any form of truth, either intentionally or not. So, unfortunately, YOU are the liar, or you are extremely gullible. Have fun with that.

rufus_edge
I like Sarah Palin because she gives me an oil check every month?
I think thats a pathetic and fraudulent attempt at a personal attack.
I'm from New York.
Excuse me. I read in your profile that you were from Alaska and I wrongfully assumed that you still live there. I with draw THAT statement.

Everything else I stand by. It's too bad you admit that you really don't like anyone in this election, and that you are just voting AGAINST the candidate you think is worse. For the first time in MY voting history, I am voting FOR someone, not against someone. I feel great about it.

CAN YOU SEE HOW THIS ARGUMENT IS GETTING NOWHERE, OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO CALL ME A LIAR SOME MORE?
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
dragonrider at 6:20PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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SpANG
Everything else I stand by. It's too bad you admit that you really don't like anyone in this election, and that you are just voting AGAINST the candidate you think is worse. For the first time in MY voting history, I am voting FOR someone, not against someone. I feel great about it.

CAN YOU SEE HOW THIS ARGUMENT IS GETTING NOWHERE, OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO CALL ME A LIAR SOME MORE?

A couple comments here, unfortunately few people take the time to honestly research the candidates, therefore they are constantly voting against one candidate, one platform or the other. Note I used the words honestly research,so they end up voting the party line because it is the party line or they vote because they don't like one person or the other,or their platform. If you are voting for someone, fantastic welcome to the ranks of intelligent voters, intelligent voters do cross party lines neither side has a monopoly on them.

My second observation, yeah Ruffie probably wants to call us liars so he can keep feeling good about himself, he's too lazy or whatever to do deep background checks so he mouths sound bites that some hate monger put together. It is fun though to watch him make an ass of himself, however I'm gonna drop out of this battle of wits because I hate to take advantage of those who are only half armed. Say good night Ruffiekins, Bye-Bye.
Do NOT meddle in the affairs of Dragons. Because, YOU are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:16PM
NickGuy at 7:23PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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posts: 988
joined: 2-22-2007
Ronson
Remember when I said something like: Tomorrow Sarah Palin will say something else and you guys will defend it without thought? Well, this whole $150,000 for clothes and makeup proves it. Firstly because it's a sure sign of outrageous excess. Secondly because it may be a misuse of campaign funds. The campaign currently defends it saying they were planning on donating the clothes to charity afterwards. It's a gray area, I'll admit, but I have no doubt that if a report about something similar came out about the other side (I'm thinking John Edwards' haircut, here), you'd be jeering it all the way.

to be fair, Id be interested in seeing what both parties are paying on wardrobe before that becomes an issue to argue over. seriously, clothes? c'mon what are you guys…16? this is just an example of too much information, so everything gets blown up into huge deals when in the long run it doesnt matter. and if they say theyre gonna donate the clothes, we really have no choice but to believe them. don't call them liars before they even get the chance to lie.

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
“Kung Fu Komix is…so awesome” -threeeyeswurm
“Kung Fu Komix is..told with all the stupid exuberance of the genre it parodies” -The Real Macabre
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
rufus_edge at 7:25PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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joined: 10-25-2007
Are you kidding me?
To lie, as defined by the greatest source of information ever, Wikipedia:
“to state something that one knows to be false or that one has not reasonably ascertained to be true with the intention that it be taken for the truth by oneself or someone else.”

Now for only the most blatant examples of your lies:
“Not only is Palin anti-science, she wants to teach Creationism in schools.”
“Palin actually slashed funding for schools for special needs kids by 62%.”
“Palin pressured a librarian to ban unspecified books, later fired her, but local residents pressured to re-hire her.”

I proved that these are lies, hence my calling you a liar (and being right about it).
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
SpANG at 8:26PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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posts: 3,105
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I want to be clear here. YOU PROVED NOTHING. You just spun the claims and made them your very own republican brand of bullshit.

rufus_edge
…your lies:
“Palin pressured a librarian to ban unspecified books, later fired her, but local residents pressured to re-hire her.”
ABC News has provided more details on Sarah Palin's quest to ban books at the Wasilla library :


Among the details:

Palin's questioning of the Wasilla librarian about the policy to ban books coincided with her church's efforts to ban books at bookstores and the local library.

The two books that the church wanted banned: “Go Ask Alice” and “Pastor, I Am Gay.”

Palin asked the Librarian: “What would your response be if I asked you to remove books from the Wasilla public library.”

The librarian said that the books in the library conformed to national standards and that she would oppose any efforts to remove any books.

ABC reported: "A few weeks after the council meeting, the mayor fired the librarian, although she was re-instated after a community uproar.“

”The Wasilla Librarian, Mary Ellen Edmonds, left two years later, and according to friends, it was just too hard working for Sarah Palin. In a conversation with me (Brian Ross) yesterday, the librarian said she could not recall Palin asking for specific book titles to be removed from the shelves. But she acknowledged that her treatment from Palin had been very rough. ‘I just don’t care to revisit that time of my life.'"

rufus_edge
… your lies:
“Palin actually slashed funding for schools for special needs kids by 62%.”
[[[]]

rufus_edge
…your lies:
“Not only is Palin anti-science…”
Soon after Sarah Palin was elected mayor of the foothill town of Wasilla, Alaska, she startled a local music teacher by insisting in casual conversation that men and dinosaurs coexisted on an Earth created 6,000 years ago – about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct. Apparently, the Flinstones were for real. LINK

rufus_edge
…your lies:
… she wants to teach Creationism in schools."
Factcheck.org says she is “open” to teaching Creationism along side evolution. Evolution is a scientific hypothesis, WITH PROOF. Creationism is not even close to that. Creationism is not even a THEORY. It's a feeling. She is an idiot.


*yawn*
You are beginning to bore me. Are we done with the chest pounding yet?
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
rufus_edge at 9:06PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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posts: 131
joined: 10-25-2007
Here's the link from your precious factcheck.org:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

Did not pressure books to be banned.
Did not slash funding.
Does not want to teach creationism.
Is not anti-science.

Bull. Shit.

And, in your effort to twist the truth, you cite momocrats for the comments about funding for special needs children, but you ignore the updated version that points out that they were wrong which I linked to in my original post pointing out that you lied.
It even has a “please read the updated version here” at the top of the page.
But poor Rufus Edge doesn't know how to use Google, so I guess he'll never know you were blatantly lying again.

Cite factcheck when it agrees with you, ignore it when it doesn't.
Cite momocrats when it agrees with you, ignore it when it doesn't.

I call that twisting the truth.

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
SpANG at 9:29PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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posts: 3,105
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The librarian only quit after she was fired by the mayor then re-hired and under pressure from Palin, though. That's a spin by the right.

We can argue about creationism until we are both blue in the face and neither of us will win it.

… and there are lots of other things on that list I put down that are not in dispute that you would call “irrelevant”, though I would sincerely disagree with you.

But… I see you ARE right about the slashing funding. I concede to that one. I WAS misinformed. See? I'm a man. Now why don't you be a man and fact check some of those Obama smears you posted, hmm? ;)

Let's both do our homework better.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
rufus_edge at 9:37PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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posts: 131
joined: 10-25-2007
Why don't you go back and find the “smears” that I “mentioned”, so I can refresh my memory.

I do disagree with everything on that list in some way, but they aren't blatant lies so we'll just end up arguing about something like when a child says he believes humans were created by God instead of evolving from single-celled organisms, do you tell him he's a moron, or do you allow him to talk while pointing out the scientific evidence for evolution.
And we know that won't ever go anywhere.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
mlai at 11:25PM, Oct. 23, 2008
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posts: 3,035
joined: 12-28-2006
1. You live in NY, so honestly your right-leaning opinions don't matter because NY is going to vote democrat anyways. Yay for the USA electoral system.

2. I'm registered in NJ, so honestly I don't even have to go vote cuz I know it's gonna vote democrat. Yay USA electoral system.

OK, now that we've established that this thread is just entertainment for both of us…

3. So you honestly feel that creationism should be taught alongside evolution as “an alternative theory” in a science class? I have no problem with creationism being taught in school, in a history/philosophy class.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Ronson at 4:40AM, Oct. 24, 2008
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Okay, I'm going to chime in here a little bit in defense of Palin.

She has clarified (possibly altered, but we have to take her at her word) that she just meant that in the discussion of evolution, there could be a discussion about creationism if the students are interested/confused about it. She didn't demand one of those retarded books that teach “both”, and she didn't say it should be mandatory.

…though, as I say, that's her post-VP pick clarification.

I'd be more interested in hearing the defense for McCain's ties (in the form of friendships, campaign contributions and advisors) to terrorists and terrorist sympathizers {listed by me previously on this page), since he so obviously has more than Obama's alleged ties.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
NickGuy at 8:03AM, Oct. 24, 2008
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posts: 988
joined: 2-22-2007
mlai
1. You live in NY, so honestly your right-leaning opinions don't matter because NY is going to vote democrat anyways. Yay for the USA electoral system.

2. I'm registered in NJ, so honestly I don't even have to go vote cuz I know it's gonna vote democrat. Yay USA electoral system.

OK, now that we've established that this thread is just entertainment for both of us…

3. So you honestly feel that creationism should be taught alongside evolution as “an alternative theory” in a science class? I have no problem with creationism being taught in school, in a history/philosophy class.

I was born and raised in NYC, and i went to a jesuit high school…the way they handled creationism and evolution was very tactful IMO.

if the public schools would get over themselves and have religion/theology as a class, then you could have both at the same time. I had a religion class 1st period, which did NOT preach or bash other religions or try to shove anything down my throat. all it simply did was look at the story of the bible as just that…a story. we then took quizzes on the subject matter of the bible, etc. we did the same thing to all the other religions in the world. Again, there was never “this is what is true” said in the class, it was purely subjective.

And then i also had a science class the same day, which taught everything that science classes teach. if you want creationism in schools, thats fine. dont put it in a science class where it doesnt belong.

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
“Kung Fu Komix is…so awesome” -threeeyeswurm
“Kung Fu Komix is..told with all the stupid exuberance of the genre it parodies” -The Real Macabre
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
rufus_edge at 9:01AM, Oct. 24, 2008
(online)
posts: 131
joined: 10-25-2007
Who are the real terrorists: terrorists or the government?
This is a good question, but it isn't the same topic.

Yes, New York probably is going to vote Democratic.
However, New York did vote for Reagan. New York did vote for Nixon.

If I didn't vote because I thought it didn't matter, I'd be giving up one of my most basic rights.

I also want to clarify that it is in no way true that I'm voting against Obama simply because he has a connection to a terrorist.
I'll list everything that I considered that led me to choose McCain later.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:12PM
lothar at 9:19AM, Oct. 24, 2008
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posts: 1,299
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don't you think it's strange that palin said obama pals around with terroristS ? plural ? who's the other terrorist ? i think it was intentional , kinda subliminal way to get it in peoples minds that obama is a terrorist too .

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
NickGuy at 9:23AM, Oct. 24, 2008
(online)
posts: 988
joined: 2-22-2007
lothar
don't you think it's strange that palin said obama pals around with terroristS ? plural ? who's the other terrorist ? i think it was intentional , kinda subliminal way to get it in peoples minds that obama is a terrorist too .



i think its strange that you are reading into it too much. :/

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
“Kung Fu Komix is…so awesome” -threeeyeswurm
“Kung Fu Komix is..told with all the stupid exuberance of the genre it parodies” -The Real Macabre
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
ozoneocean at 9:31AM, Oct. 24, 2008
(online)
posts: 24,802
joined: 1-2-2006
lothar
don't you think it's strange that palin said obama pals around with terroristS ? plural ? who's the other terrorist ? i think it was intentional , kinda subliminal way to get it in peoples minds that obama is a terrorist too.
Yeah, it's just another example of that nasty Palin's way of hitting bellow the belt, acting and lying in front of camera; acting dumb and “homey”, lying to make herself look so revoltingly wholesomely WASPish in a creepy way, like one of those 1950's women in a soap ad, a Stepford wife… Except with her it's VP Barbie.

It would have been better if McCain had tied himself to someone more genuine and real, no matter how right wing or conservative. Anything's better than a cardboard cut-out pretend politician… she's like a Hollywood version of one.

That's the shame of it. Contrast that with how McCain used to be: principled, bipartisan, averse to bellow the belt attacks… As a politician he actually looked sort of honourable but as this campaign has worn on he's progressively let more and more of that let go and I think that's one of the main reasons he's going to lose.
And good on Obama camp for not losing it the same way he has.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
NickGuy at 9:41AM, Oct. 24, 2008
(online)
posts: 988
joined: 2-22-2007
ozoneocean
lothar
don't you think it's strange that palin said obama pals around with terroristS ? plural ? who's the other terrorist ? i think it was intentional , kinda subliminal way to get it in peoples minds that obama is a terrorist too.
Yeah, it's just another example of that nasty Palin's way of hitting bellow the belt, acting and lying in front of camera; acting dumb and “homey”, lying to make herself look so revoltingly wholesomely WASPish in a creepy way, like one of those 1950's women in a soap ad, a Stepford wife… Except with her it's VP Barbie.

wow…all because she put an s after a word? I mean, seriously…if you have a beef with someone, can it be for something more substantial than how much she spends on clothes and whether she puts an s at the end of terrorists or not?

now this isnt directed only at you ozone, and this isnt to say that im either defending palin or she hasnt done some messed up things, but i just think that the whole “jumping on every little thing” that BOTH SIDES are doing right now is completely and utterly ridiculous. it has nothing to do with what they are going to do in office. its a smear campaign, big deal, everyone has done it since the beginning of politics. why dont you ignore what so-and-so is saying about the other guy and just focus on who you think will do a better job behind that desk in the oval office, goddamnit.


im just going to get out of this thread before i look at people differently.

*door open, door close, car starts up, screeeech*

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
“Kung Fu Komix is…so awesome” -threeeyeswurm
“Kung Fu Komix is..told with all the stupid exuberance of the genre it parodies” -The Real Macabre
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM

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