Debate and Discussion

Sarah Palin .. the devil or just out right scary ?
Hawk at 10:05AM, Oct. 28, 2008
posts: 2,775
joined: 1-2-2006
Ronson and rufus_edge, is this going to get much worse? I'm ready to lock things if they do. I know this thread was created with poor intentions and partisan intolerance in mind, but we don't have to continue that trend.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
SpANG at 10:24AM, Oct. 28, 2008
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
Just lock it Hawk. It's strayed waaay too far from it's original intent. And like you said, the title was partisan (much like the earlier “Obama hates babies” and the rest of them.)

If someone wants to start another relevant thread, they can. But we shouldn't allow the off-topic deflecting.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
lothar at 10:29AM, Oct. 28, 2008
posts: 1,299
joined: 1-3-2006
I know this thread was created with poor intentions and partisan intolerance in mind, but we don't have to continue that trend.

what ?

heres the original post
I am probably never going to the united states because Sarah Pailin scares me .. she just makes me very angry to know the my genderactually spawned one of those THINGS .. but anyway I am not trying to force my oppinion upon anyone but what do you think ??

I am not a United Statesien but … I am still concerned about these things

first , she clearly states that she's not even in America, so .. how can she be partisan ?
second , why is it intolerance to express your dislike of someone running for public office ?
i think bd is expressing the feelings of many people who live outside the US and can't fathom why voters would be taken in by somebody like palin . it's a valid question , and i think this thread has really given us some insight into the kinds of people who support palin .
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
SpANG at 11:31AM, Oct. 28, 2008
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
The title is "Sarah Palin .. the devil or just out right scary ?
I'd say that's a pretty partisan viewpoint. Or, at least it could be construed as such by people that do not agree with it. In a healthy debate, you don't start out one-sided. You don't need to be political or from the U.S. to be partisan. I could say ”peanut butter tastes like crap" and that would also be partisan. ;)

But look, I don't fault beautifully_demonic by any means whatsoever. She posted this thread in GENERAL, and it probably should have stayed there. It was moved to D&D by no action she had taken.

///EDIT: Changed my mind. Moving to General rather than locking.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Walrus at 1:42PM, Oct. 28, 2008
posts: 1,159
joined: 2-18-2007
MOD EDIT: This thread has had enough tomfoolery. It's getting a last chance for serious election discussion before being locked. Don't mess it up.

- Hawk
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:45PM
dueeast at 4:59PM, Oct. 28, 2008
posts: 1,098
joined: 5-6-2007
The argument's definitely over for me. I voted early today and so did my wife.

And I did not vote for Sarah Palin or her running mate. lol!

I don't think she's the devil. In fact, in a way, I feel sorry for her because politics is a rough and tumble world…but she chose it. In fact, she dived in 100%. So, whatever happens on election day happens…but either way it goes, I don't think I'd like to be Sarah Palin on November 5.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
Ronson at 5:13PM, Oct. 28, 2008
posts: 837
joined: 1-1-2006
I have apologized, and will do so again in case anyone missed it. Stupid arguments angry up my blood.

I won't address the smears anymore. I should have come to this much sooner, but the simple fact is that every time one smear seems to get knocked down, they go to their right wing hack sites to bring in a new one. Ayers seems to be their fallback and even that one is silly on the face of it.

And arguing with it is what leads folks like bravo1102 to think that both sides are slinging mud and neither side has facts. The truth is out there and can be found, and if it seems incredibly impossible for a candidate to actually have done the things he's accused of you can be pretty sure it is.

The problem is that people like me all to often get disgusted by the ridiculous accusations and smears and we let people like … well, you know … frame the debate. Why should I argue Ayers when there's nothing there that's a problem? Why should I argue birth certificates, socialism or African leaders when the sources are so fundamentally flawed?

People who believe that stuff have decided that we actually have a candidate who is a secret Kenyan Muslim communist who is working with Ayers to destroy the country. If anyone actually thinks that someone that has that many skeletons in their closet and still could become a state - let alone a national - senator, well, I really should just feel sorry for them.

To rufus and Vindi: I'm sorry. You're wrong. You can calm down and relax. But I am sorry in my callous attempts to talk you down. I hope someday you can see these arguments your posing for what they are: smoke and mirrors.


Sarah Palin is qualified to be a VP. She would just suck at it. She is another Republican of the mold of GWB - won't listen, has no curiosity, and is stuck in medieval religious doctrine.

McCain I disagree with on policy. Tax cuts to the rich never leads to prosperity for anyone but the rich. Starving government sounds great until it's your community that starts falling apart. He has wanted to invade Iran for as long as I remember, and I think a McCain presidency would make that a dead certainty. I personally think that would be foolish and ultimately counterproductive.

I also think he has the onset of dimentia, but have no proof because he's hidden his medial records.

Obama's plan for healthcare and the economy don't go far enough for me, but they'll be a darn sight better than what we have and a good first step. Providing a minimum amount of care for those who can't afford it otherwise is literally the least we can do and still consider ourselves Americans. Stimulating the economy with infrastructure jobs and alternative energy projects could help us get through the upcoming recession.

His vision for America's place in the international community is more tolerable than anything coming from Republicans. The idea that we might enter into talks with our enemies without preconditions is the only rational approach to relations with our enemies, so I admire his guts to point out the error of the GWB (and apparently the McCain) administration.

He's just as unrealistic about Israel as the Republicans, and he's more likely to engage an enemy militarily than I would prefer. He will probably not use inane slogans like “the war on terror”, though, and I think he'd be more logical in his approach to the problem.

Obama is a good candidate, but I'm very far to the left, and would prefer a country that could support itself over one that insists on trying to dominate the world. Plus I think the Constitution should be followed.

But I'll take what I can get. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
bravo1102 at 10:16AM, Oct. 29, 2008
posts: 4,097
joined: 1-21-2008
Reading this thread and especially Ronson's posts have changed my vote. So again thank you everyone.

But the smears have gone to ridiculous levels with the blogisphere and so many partisans lining up like hasn't been seen since the Civil War. The campaigns have gotten too long, just like baseball season has gotten too long and it always degenerates. It's hell to live through facinating as history. That old Chinese curse is right. “May you live in interesting times.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Ronson at 8:11PM, Oct. 29, 2008
posts: 837
joined: 1-1-2006
I hope I was somewhat of a positive influence in your decision.

I think you're right about the length of the campaign, but I'm not sure if this is all that much nastier than other elections.

The difference for me this time is that forums like these are a lot more prevalent, and when you increase the size of the people you debate with you certainly get a more varied amount of opinions.

For me, this thread has taught me why Democrats and honorable Republicans have not fought back when smeared incessantly. It used to drive me crazy when they would dismiss every attack and say they want to concentrate on the issues. I used to think that was a dodge and that they should fire back. Now I wonder if that used to be a better tactic before the advent of a 24 hour news cycle.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Naughtelos at 8:30PM, Nov. 20, 2008
posts: 218
joined: 12-2-2007
Here's my two cents: She's scary but harmless. At least until 2012.

Palin is everything I oppose. Being a uppity Liberal, Atheist, Pro-Gay Marriage, Pro-Abortion “Artist”, I am understandably infuriated by her stances on the numerous issues, but I'm going to spare you a restatement the left-wing dogma for the billionth time on this forum.

However, what really makes me have to invoke the is she has this condescending rhetoric that makes my just makes my skin crawl. Good GOD woman, we have a brain, quit winking. I'll tolerate the folksy dialect, I'll tolerate the insipid banter, but I just don't want to be talked down to. I'll listen to your stance on Tax Reform, I'll probably agree with you on a few things, but I don't want to hear it watered down to the diction of a third grader. I bet even the people that side with her on the issues can at least partially agree with me.

Anybody with me?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:09PM
supermathsbeaver at 5:46AM, Dec. 9, 2008
posts: 50
joined: 1-18-2006
I thought the devil was supposed to be outright scary?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:04PM
SpANG at 10:40AM, Dec. 9, 2008
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
In conclusion, Sara Palin is neither the devil or outright scary.

She is however, a joke. She's marginalized at this point, and I don't think she'll be back for 2012. Not that I wouldn't welcome that. She's is a great divider for her party. :D

If, by some weird chance, she DOES come back… I predict she'll split the GOP into two separate parties. Again, I wouldn't mind that. ;)
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Hawk at 12:17PM, Dec. 9, 2008
posts: 2,775
joined: 1-2-2006
Yeah, I'm sure we'll just see her fade away. There are varying ideas of her significance in the last election. Some think she lost McCain the election, others think nobody could have won McCain the election. I don't know or care. But I agree with Spang, she's not going to make anywhere far in 2012.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM

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