Hippie Van
Scribe_Drizz, you've never been attached to an animal? Most people can be, and rightly so. Animals can provide companionship and love, and ask for very little in return.
You don't think that when you show your dog the shoe he chewed up and he turns away, tail between his legs, that he's feeling something? You don't think that when you come home from work and he's there to greet you, tail wagging, that he's feeling something? So why do you have the right to kill or hurt this living, feeling thing? Does that mean you have the right to kill humans as well?

ozoneocean
You may have some socialisation issues I suspect. Scribe Driz, I'm afraid the opposite of your scenario is usually the case, the creepy people are the ones who don't from attachments. You could extend your reasoning to “race”, ethnicity, religion, class etc, and ultimately it all actually comes from the same place since the psychology of attachments and empathy (whether pets or anything else) is the same when you're talking about extending it past boundaries.
And it's similar for animals that reciprocate and form attachments too. It's a natural thing, part of our tribal, communal nature, an extension of the mother child bond and natural altruism.

Van, I think you've misunderstood what I wrote with the killing and stuff.

Yes, animals have feelings. I'm just not interested in them. I think it's sad when wild animals are forced out of natural settings by human developments. And it disgusts me when people keep pets or feed “strays” and pretend that an animal needs them to survive. It reminds me of when people have children without any forethought. If someone is upset because their dog chewed their shoes or their cat clawed their couch, that person is not entitled to kicking their pet. He should kick himself for setting up the scenario.

I'm just saying that I think that the people who “loved” Yoopy Cat are just as strange as this guy that “hated” it. It's just a cat. Ozone, if you and other people think I'm creepy just for that, that's fine.

Hippie Van

Hakoshen
We don't say anything to a kid who pulls the wings off of a fly, or when he lights a
firecracker in a lizard's mouth, but we get him psychiatric help for killing something we consider cute and innocent. Is torturing an animal that people keep as pets more sick than torturing an animal we consider a pest?

Maybe you don't! I would get pretty mad if I saw someone lighting a firecracker in a lizard's mouth. Killing or torturing a living being for fun is never right, at least in my mind. I apply that to people who hunt for sport as well(but not people like inuits who need to hunt to survive).

Perhaps I was erroneous in saying that people aren't reprimanded for this behavior, but I don't think animal cruelty laws extend to insects (hey, I could be wrong. My knowledge of the law applies to weapons and child protection). This in my opinion would represent a widespread acceptance, or at the least indifference to any miscreant behavior towards these creatures. Then again, perhaps the response is less noticeable because the victims are smaller, easier to dispose of, and you can't hear them scream. If you're killing something that makes no noise, it's only one of your senses taking its pain in. If you kill something that can, you just doubled the intake. Is it a sicker person then who does this in lieu of being twice as aware of something's pain?

Here's a side question, since I can't help but be devil's advocate; is it acceptable to kill “lesser creatures” such as bugs and worms and even domesticated animals if they don't suffer? Or if not, when would you say that it is?

Scribe_Drizz
I'm just saying that I think that the people who “loved” Yoopy Cat are just as strange as this guy that “hated” it. It's just a cat. Ozone, if you and other people think I'm creepy just for that, that's fine.

The thig is though, that they're not. That's perfectly normal behaviour.
Not to understand that isn't ;)

Its human to develop attachments to animals. I had a dog. It got ran over by a car and my parents and my uncle who was in my house at that time had to restrain me or I would have killed the driver who run over my dog. I was in this crazy fit of rage.

I loved Gringo (thats my dog's name). He'd cheer me up when I was down. Whenever he'd wag his tail or give me this puppy look whenever he wanted food or something, it brought this calmness to my spirit. Gringo was given to me when I was a year old and I grew up with him. And we've been together for 10 years until that stupid driver run him over.

Bits and pieces of the bond between me and Gringo still remain. That one day I dreamt about him. I was in a junkyard in that dream. I opened a red volkswagen buggy and out he came. Then I woke up.

Its just the natural thing. The bonds get stronger every minute you are with a certain person or animal in this life. Sometimes the bonds get so strong that breaking them would feel like part of your soul is getting torn off. Spiritual pain is more painful than physical pain. Thats why people who are suffering emotionally would resort to harming themselves. Its because they'd rather feel that blade on their wrists than go through the emotional pain.

But on the other hand, I've seen other arguments about not getting attached because bonds hold you back in some form or another.

- No wonder some religions require their priests to be celibate. Because the attachment is suppose to be with God and not with a woman or family.

- I've read a psychic healer's manual for the interest of it. And somewhere it said that performing healings on family members can be more difficult because of the emotional bonds you will have for your family and it will only get in the way of focusing your healing white light or something like that.

- And there's this radio talk show host I listen to who comes off as agnostic (interestingly, he implies that secular humanism is a greater evil than organized religion)… and he's not married and all he does is research the New World Order. Maybe he's figured that his family could be targetted and decided not to have a family.

- People who I know who are truck drivers would ALWAYS say that truck driving more suited for single people because if you got a wife waiting for you as you're out for a week, its likely to make you depressed or ruin the marriage. Its implied as if bonds are detrimental to the job.

- And from personal experience, I'm not a social butterfly and not many people know me. Therefore it gives me more guts to state my political or religious opinion and not to care what others think of me. If I had more bonds, would it make me more of a coward?


What are bonds? Are they a good thing or are they a bad thing?


Damn… I think I just sidetracked this thread. :)

My cat, Lady, is like a sister to me. I helped deliver her and she has been my cat ever since. I haven't seen her in a while though since we can't have pets in the dorms. As soon as I get my own place, I'll be with her again. She won't leave me alone when I come home.

I had a cat named Robbie. He was there when I was born, and we were extremely close for the first 12 years of my life. Then one day my mother told me Robbie had been mauled by a raccoon and they had to put him down. I didn't feel a thing. It was the same way at every one of my grandparents' funerals. That's probably not normal. Anyway, I never really experienced part of my soul getting torn away, but I understand the bond you're talking about, kyupol.

Sea_Cow
I had a cat named Robbie. He was there when I was born, and we were extremely close for the first 12 years of my life. Then one day my mother told me Robbie had been mauled by a raccoon and they had to put him down. I didn't feel a thing. It was the same way at every one of my grandparents' funerals. That's probably not normal.

I wouldn't really just outright say you're abnormal. They were your grandparents and longtime pets sure, but how close were you to them? Hell, I didn't give two shits at my grandpa's funeral, mainly because I was maybe 8 and didn't really know him, so there was no feeling of loss because I was never attached. I'm either guessing you weren't as close as you suggest with your cat or grandparents, or they just weren't that important, or else I'd assume you would have had some kind of emotional response to the fact that a part of your life that you cared about is now gone. I'm not saying you had to be broken up and crying over it, but if you felt the sensation of loss, you felt something.

Either that or you do have some sort of attachment issues. But what do I know? I'm not a psychologist. Leave me alone!