Debate and Discussion

Should news be OGRISH and PETA? (should truth be exposed?)
kyupol at 3:47PM, Nov. 15, 2006
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Yeah yeah. Ogrish and peta is really really brutal. Ogrish got sickening shit on their website. Executions, accidents, terrorist attacks, suicides, drug addictions, war video, etc… you name it they have it. Peta got sickening shit being done to animals in factory farms.


My first week of viewing those sites made me sick. Like I wanna puke and I wanna just close my eyes… and I had a hard time sleeping because I dont wanna have nightmares from the shit in there.


But after the initial “shock and awe” I felt, it made me more of a peacemaker and of more concerned with other living creatures on this planet.


If such images were broadcast in the daily newspaper, more and more people will be woken up to the grim realities of war and the extent of evil that humanity is capable of doing to his fellow humans and animals.


If such images are released on TV and the news, people will see THE TRUTH. And then the compassion and peace will follow through, making this world a less violent place to live in. That way, propaganda of violence and hatred will lose their foothold in the hearts and minds of the people… when people start to see the brutal reality of what these poisonous ideologies will create.


People deserve to see the TRUTH. The naked blatant truth.



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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Black_Kitty at 3:57PM, Nov. 15, 2006
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People already see buildings being blown up, children in third world countries starving, and planes crashing into towers. A&E have plenty of shows that features drug addiction and crime. One of the reasons why I stopped watching American Justice and Cold Case Files is because I got sick of watching photographs/videos of victims lying there dead.

The problem is that the only people finding these things shocking are 5 year olds. I remember my professors telling me that when 9/11 occurred, young children were traumatized from watching the the footage of planes crashing into the twin towers repeatedly. They didn't realize that it was the same towers and had thought that planes were crashing into towers everywhere.

The rest of the world? Not quite as traumatized.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
ozoneocean at 6:03AM, Nov. 16, 2006
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Rich
I use those sites for reference pictures when I need to draw anything gruesome.
This is a debate and discussion forum Rich, please try and add to the debate in your posts here with something more than a comment. :)

Now on topic:
Kyupol, we do become somewhat desensitised to violent imagery. Seeing bad things over and over won't make us better people, it'll just make the bad things easy to ignore. They're only shocking if they're a contrast to what you normally see. If you see it all the time, it redefines normality. Showing gruesome violent imagery constantly in the mainstream media may have the exact opposite effect to what you intend: It may make us more callous, more dismissive, more blasé about violence and atrocity.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
VegaX at 8:21AM, Nov. 16, 2006
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kyupol
My first week of viewing those sites made me sick. Like I wanna puke and I wanna just close my eyes… and I had a hard time sleeping because I dont wanna have nightmares from the shit in there.
Jesus man, sometimes i think you WANT to feel bad. Why do you dig up all this stuff and watch it when it makes you feel sick?

Anyway, i do think that they show more and more brutal stuff on the news than when i was a kid. People ARE getting used to seeing dead bodies on tv, which is a bit troubling.

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:39PM
Rich at 8:26AM, Nov. 16, 2006
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While I'm not animal lover, the videos on PETA's website are disturbingly sickening. I remember seeing one with lab monkeys being stuck with needles and shoved into plastic tubes to restrain them. It really shows how sick some people in this world are when we can't even treat our lab animals decently.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:06PM
lothar at 12:25PM, Nov. 16, 2006
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in particular the coverage of this Iraq war , with the ban on showing returning coffins and overall lack of reporters outside the “green zone” - it gives the impression the the WAR is some sort of RTS game . i am reminded of the old saying about how the Romans used red colored dirt in their arenas !

but considering whos in control of the media , if they were allowed to show whatever they wanted , this kind of imagery would prolly be used more for propaganda . just like the 5 year olds and the twin towers , isn't there a 5 year old inside everybody , prolly the reason for the irrational fear that has gripped america since 911 , they used those images repeated to magnify the atack to apocalyptic proportions , who believes they wouldn't do the same thing if they were allowed to show terrorists decapitating US soldiers and reporters? then that subconcious five year old will think there are thousands of people getting their heads cut off - knee jerk reaction = “bomb the f*k out of em !! ” and you still would be hard pressed to find coverage of exactly where those bombs landed !
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
Phantom Penguin at 4:30PM, Nov. 16, 2006
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lothar
in particular the coverage of this Iraq war , with the ban on showing returning coffins and overall lack of reporters outside the “green zone” - it gives the impression the the WAR is some sort of RTS game . i am reminded of the old saying about how the Romans used red colored dirt in their arenas !

but considering whos in control of the media , if they were allowed to show whatever they wanted , this kind of imagery would prolly be used more for propaganda . just like the 5 year olds and the twin towers , isn't there a 5 year old inside everybody , prolly the reason for the irrational fear that has gripped america since 911 , they used those images repeated to magnify the atack to apocalyptic proportions , who believes they wouldn't do the same thing if they were allowed to show terrorists decapitating US soldiers and reporters? then that subconcious five year old will think there are thousands of people getting their heads cut off - knee jerk reaction = “bomb the f*k out of em !! ” and you still would be hard pressed to find coverage of exactly where those bombs landed !

I will adress this in points since its going to be long

-The ‘ban’ on showing coffins returning isn't a ban, its been shown before. Its called respect. Will showing dead soldiers really make you happy?

-Theres is a lack of reporters outside the ‘green zone’ because they are afraid to leave. I was there for a year and only saw one.

-We havn't blown 9/11 in to a ‘apocalyptic’ event. Americans as a whole were pissed and wanted someone to pay for the 2000+ people killed on that day. Bush has pushed the 9/11 thing to far, not the people

-There are videos being played on the news like you have mentioned. Al-Jeezria (sp?) is avalible in the US, the government can't ban it. You just need a satalite dish.

-Generally speaking the media is split, half being controlled by the republicans and half by the democrats. Both control pretty big names in news. And the republican's power is wanning anyway.



Now on topic:
Kyupol, we do become somewhat desensitised to violent imagery. Seeing bad things over and over won't make us better people, it'll just make the bad things easy to ignore. They're only shocking if they're a contrast to what you normally see. If you see it all the time, it redefines normality. Showing gruesome violent imagery constantly in the mainstream media may have the exact opposite effect to what you intend: It may make us more callous, more dismissive, more blasé about violence and atrocity


This is true. i will use myself as a example. I can't really be shocked by any images i see anymore. Mostly because i helped make a lot of the crap on Orgish. But it doesn't help matters any. For things to be consitered ‘bad’ by my standards they have to be pretty bad. I pray the rest of the country doesn't turn that way.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:42PM
Inkmonkey at 6:49PM, Nov. 16, 2006
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kyupol
If such images are released on TV and the news, people will see THE TRUTH. And then the compassion and peace will follow through, making this world a less violent place to live in. That way, propaganda of violence and hatred will lose their foothold in the hearts and minds of the people… when people start to see the brutal reality of what these poisonous ideologies will create.


People deserve to see the TRUTH. The naked blatant truth.





If you think PETA is the best source for the “truth”, then you really need to reprioritize your standards.

Anyway, as far as the debate goes, I don't think showing gruesome crap on live TV is such a good idea. There's a difference between the “truth” and “doing shit to creep people out”, which is what sites like you've mentioned do.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
kyupol at 4:09AM, Nov. 17, 2006
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VegaX
kyupol
My first week of viewing those sites made me sick. Like I wanna puke and I wanna just close my eyes… and I had a hard time sleeping because I dont wanna have nightmares from the shit in there.
Jesus man, sometimes i think you WANT to feel bad. Why do you dig up all this stuff and watch it when it makes you feel sick?




I dont need to anymore. I've seen everything already.

Anyway in response to your question, think of it like a drug. Why do some people sniff chemicals even if it does something bad to them?
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Tantz Aerine at 8:22AM, Nov. 17, 2006
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kyupol
I dont need to anymore. I've seen everything already.

Anyway in response to your question, think of it like a drug. Why do some people sniff chemicals even if it does something bad to them?

Well, if that is the reason why, isn't it a sign for you to stop hurting yourself then? Because drugs tend to cull a person in many ways, and I agree with you that watching these things will do that to your self. How about start focusing on some of the good aspects of humanity? I promise you there are such to be found.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
Glarg at 4:38PM, Nov. 19, 2006
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I heard somewhere PETA killed a deer hunter once and burned down a few buildings, Also They tried to poisin some Big Buisness guys coffee, There have also been rumors of a bomb having to be stopped by the SWAT team THANKS TO PETA!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:36PM
ozoneocean at 2:00AM, Nov. 20, 2006
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-Just a note. I deleted pithy comment one liners from Tantz and Ink. I reiterate: Use this forum for debate!
Make a statement, or an agreement of some kind, and then go on to justify it. Or respond to a question or something at lest….
Don't just fill up the forums with gigantic quotes with agreements or pithy comments under them please.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
kyupol at 6:44PM, Nov. 21, 2006
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Well, if that is the reason why, isn't it a sign for you to stop hurting yourself then? Because drugs tend to cull a person in many ways, and I agree with you that watching these things will do that to your self. How about start focusing on some of the good aspects of humanity? I promise you there are such to be found.

… another reason was an absolute necessity. Its a “have to”. I have to be mentally tough to survive. I have to be at least 10x mentally tougher than the average person. I dont wanna go into the miserable details… thats for internet emo-fags. Like people reading this will be interested at all. :)

Or else I will be a danger to myself and other people because of depression and suicide issues. I believe suicide is done by cowards and people who suffer depression suffer in the first place because they are weak. So yeah. Must.Be.Mentally.Tough.


Anyway back to the topic… if people were mentally tougher, wouldnt that mean less spending on prozac and other anti-depressants? Or maybe not. Psychologists need to make money too. :(
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
ozoneocean at 4:07AM, Nov. 22, 2006
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If more people were made “mentally tough” through being exposed to that sort of imagery, wouldn't they have less qualms about committing similar acts to those they've seen?

There are balances… Some people have to deal with more difficult and nasty things in life, that doesn't mean all of us need the same kind of mental outlook. I don't want to have to think like a soldier in occupied territory, a drug-addicted sex-worker, someone who kills pigs in an abattoir, a social worker looking after abused children… I'm fine as I am thanks.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:24PM
Inkmonkey at 8:15AM, Nov. 22, 2006
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The problem with stuff like this is it's not real drama. Not for you, anyway. It's terrible, to be sure, but it doesn't actually prepare you for anything to know what a bullet wound to the brain looks like (unless you're going into forensics). Unless you yourself are in a war zone, Kyu, then all you're doing is creating a fake wall of “emotionless”; convincing yourself that if you see enough atrocity then all the minor dramas in life are going to die, which isn't how these things work.

And more importantly, how is a supposed loss of emotional impact beneficial? Sure, it makes it easier to act like the disinterested badass character so popular on television, but that's not real life.

On another note, I feel that, in general, these images have too much power. That's why self-righteous morons like PETA use them in their campaigns. By showing a monkey getting stabbed in the eye and slammed into a cage and saying, "this is what animal testing really looks like!“, you give people a skewed view. That's like showing the disgruntled kid in the back of McDonald's dropping worms in the curly fries and saying ”This is what fast food really looks like!“ No, it doesn't; not normally, anyway. What you see is people breaking the rules, because the rules in place ask that these things are done kindly and responsibly. By showing this skewed view on real facts, you make it too easy to sway people's opinion and to abuse their emotions for your own gain. It's like all those assholes who, after 9/11 or Katrina, started to say ”This wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for those damn ______!!" They're saying basically the same thing they always say, but now with people emotionally confused and desperate for answers, they start to get blind followers who were just confused and frightened.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
Black_Kitty at 10:58AM, Nov. 22, 2006
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I just want to point out that I am very much capable of compassion and empathy without having to first experience or actually see what others go through. I do not need to hurt myself, experience a drug addiction, starve myself, lose a limb, or feel violated just so I could treat others with respect and compassion.

I don't see the necessity in being emotionally jaded. Feeling sad, lonely, upset, angry…those are all normal human emotions. If you need a hug, then you need a hug. If you need someone to talk to, then you need someone to talk to. Those are all normal human needs and I don't see what's so weak or shameful about them that they require mental numbing. There is nothing weak about chemical imbalances either.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:23AM
jakey926 at 8:11PM, Dec. 1, 2006
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in my opinion these tihngs like peta and ogrish mean nothing really (although i'm a fan of ogrish and i hate peta to death!) at anyrate they try to press issues that alot of us already know. for example: peta shows how animals are mistreated for fur coats and food we allready know that. also ogrish show stuff like suicides and death as means of stating that it's bad we alreayd know that. it's like having to learn the same thing every year at school if you think about it.
the only thing dumber than this signature is the one who's reading it…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
marine at 9:42PM, Dec. 17, 2006
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See, I won't go to Peta's site, since I like America and do NOT support that sort of evil. We are at war with those groups after all. same thing with any site with the word “christian” in the title.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
mapaghimagsik at 9:50AM, Dec. 29, 2006
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I really don't agree with PETA on a lot of issues – mostly their campaign tactics.

So when you way you're at war with them, what aspects are you at war with? Being at war is a pretty serious business, as you well know. Real war involves killing and destruction. Is that what you're advocating?

I'm of the mindset that PETA can do whatever it will, under rule of law. I also think they would get their message out better if they stayed within the law, and would serve their cause better by doing so.

On the food issue, I want my meat to be killed quickly and mercifully. I like veal, and would like to see it raised as humanely as possible. I do think I, like most Americans, eat too much meat. This isn't a moral issue, but a health issue. But the discussion about how America is steeped in empty calories is a discussion for elsewhere.

There is a valid link between free range animals and the humane treatment of livestock and the safety of our food supply. Better treatment of the animals means healthier animals – less hormones and whatnot. And free range turkey tastes a ton better than that butterball crap.

So I'm for treating livestock better because it makes them more tasty, and as much as I disagree with PETA – and web sites with “christian” in the title (I think most of those are scams that just want to find boys for porn), declaring “war” on them makes me about as rhetorically sharp as they are – and I go to the web sites because .. well its nice to know what they are thinking.

Okay, because I'm on a tear, I'll also explain this – PETA hurts the cause of those who want to make sure there is good oversight in the meatpacking industry, because the moment you talk about conditions and treatment of animals, you get lumped in with PETA. I like my eggs and chicken free range, and am willing to spend a little bit more to get chicken which isn't drenched in antibiotics and had its beak cut off to keep it from pecking at its fellows crammed into a cage. Sure, it might cost a little bit more, but like many people have said, there's *plenty* of food, so that blatant stupidity like that isn't to ensure a food supply but to simply increase profit.

The whole meatpacking industry is screwed, and always has been. I really suggest Upton Sinclaire's “The Jungle”. We haven't come much further, and you only need to look at the current headlines about lettuce and spinach being contaminated by feedlot runoff to get an idea that our current meat production standards have some problems.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM

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