Debate and Discussion

Sicko and the US health care system
Black_Kitty at 8:09PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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So yesterday my phone, Internet, and cable completely crapped out. Since I got all my work done early for once, I decided to pop in Michael Moore's Sicko while eating dinner.

I've always been a bit cautious about watching Michael Moore films. I'm well aware that there's an agenda and that his films can be misleading. For those of you who haven't watched Sicko, Wikipedia has a nice summary. However if you're too lazy to read that, it's basically about the United State's health care system in comparison to countries with universal health care (in particular it focused on Canada, France, Cuba, and UK.)

I remember reading how Canadian journalists were not thrilled with Sicko because it portrayed Canada's health care system as flawless. To that I do agree. There was a scene where he interviewed those who were in the waiting room of a hospital and the longest waiting time was 45 minutes.

I'm pretty sure that in some parts of Canada, that's true. However in both instances where my mother was admitted to the emergency room of a hospital, she had to wait hours. The very last time she went, the ER doctor told me the bad news…then left us waiting just inside the doors for another hour or so. During one trip to the ER, my mother had to wait 4-6 hours on a stretcher. (The paramedics instructed her to not look too happy…if she looked happy or well, they may delay her even more.)

This isn't a complaint about the Canadian health care system. I like the system. It's just not properly funded and taken care of. However I do want to know how Americans feel about the film. Was it an accurate portrayal of the film? Do insurance companies try to find every loophole possible just to deny people treatment? I had a chat with people about the film but I do want to hear more opinions since the US is a pretty big country.

And if anyone lives in France, Cuba, or the UK and comment about the system's portrayal in the film, that would be cool too. (That whole bit about the government hiring nannies seem a bit…stretched.)

At one point my father thought about taking my mother to the United States for treatment. I've always wondered if it would have made a difference…or would it have resulted in the same thing except I'll just owe more money to more people.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:24AM
bobhhh at 8:31PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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Micahel Moore has an agenda to be sure, but i feel he usually on the mark in his overall themes.

Does he exaggerate, yes, but much less than your average politician, and having met him on several occasions i can tell you he is a real down to earth person who is truly concerned with his causes, much less than his own self importance, which really sets him apart from most politicians.

I really feel he is a champion for the little guy, and his pronouncements about US healthcare couldn't be more on the mark. Life and death should not be a for profit business, people shouldn't have to suffer and die because they don't have enough money.

In a country as rich as America, the lack of affordable health care is a disgusting embarrassment.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
mapaghimagsik at 10:15PM, Dec. 11, 2007
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Yes, the film was accurate, and points out some interesting problems with the US health care system. The problems are systemic, and changing just one thing won't improve it much.

There's lots of good documentation that shows that insurance companies go too far in making sure they don't pay what they “don't” cover – to the point of cheating those that they do cover.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
CharleyHorse at 8:24AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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In the U.S. the medical insurance system is a scam that is heavily rigged in favor of the wealthy. You can get wonderful medical insurance IF you can pony up incredible monthly payments of over one thousand dollars. In such cases there are no questions asked. It's covered baby.

The less you can afford to shell out on a monthly basis for medical insurance though the less effective the coverage. So in the United States of America you literally ARE worth whatever you earn.

Oh, there are some exceptions to this general rule of thumb, but not for most people. Huge numbers of adults in this nation have no health insurance at all and cannot afford medical treatment at all. That's the reality of health care in this nation. Aside from these minor complaints, however, it's the best health care system in the world. Just ask ANY wealthy person in this nation.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
TnTComic at 8:42AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Black_Kitty
Do insurance companies try to find every loophole possible just to deny people treatment?

Insurance companies will do whatever they can to keep their beautiful money. Health insurance, car insurance, home insurance… you name it. They'll do whatever they can to deny a claim.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:31PM
ozoneocean at 8:53AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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My bank rings me up wanting to give me health insurance these days… T_T

To BK about the Canadian system though: I think mostly every person in every country has bad experiences with their own system and envies those of others, it's like taxes :)

Although YOUR experience was very much on the serious end of the spectrum.

I suppose it's hard to look at the whole thing objectively since we're all so subjective about our own situations. Was Moore objective to any extent or was he just creating a more theatrical version of what most people feel anyway: the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:29PM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 9:40AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Tables turned on Fahrenheit 9/11s maker
March 04, 2007

Tony Allen-Mills

The hunter has become the hunted. Michael Moore, the celebrated left-wing film-maker, has become the unwilling subject of a new documentary that raises damaging questions about the credibility of his work.

The director and star of successful documentaries such as Roger & Me, Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11, Moore has repeatedly been accused by his right-wing enemies of distorting or manipulating the material in his films. On his website he dismisses his critics as wacko attackos.

Yet the latest assault on Moores film-making techniques has come from an unexpected quarter. In Manufacturing Dissent, a documentary to be shown for the first time at a Texas film festival on Saturday, a pair of left-wing Canadian film-makers take Moore to task for what they describe as a disturbing pattern of fact-fudging and misrepresentation.

When we started this project we hoped to have done a documentary that celebrated Michael Moore. We were admirers and fans, said Debbie Melnyk, who made the film with her husband, Rick Caine. Then we found out certain facts about his documentaries that we hadnt known before. We ended up very disappointed and disillusioned.

Melnyk and Caine are best known for their previous documentary Citizen Black, about Conrad Black, the Canadian-born former proprietor of The Daily Telegraph. Last week both of them acknowledged an important debt to Moore for popularising the documentary genre.

Yet when Caine and Melnyk began to follow him as part of their own documentary, their efforts to interview him met with the same kind of obstruction, denial and, ultimately, physical ejection that Moore had suffered when he tried to track down Roger Smith, the former chief executive of General Motors, for his first film, Roger & Me.

It was in Flint, Michigan, Moores former home town, that Caine and Melnyk made the first discovery that they say rocked their confidence in his approach. Roger & Me was a hugely successful account of what Moore portrayed as a fruitless task to force Smith to answer questions about GMs policies in closing the car manufacturing plants that had long been Flints economic lifeline.

Caine and Melnyk claim that Moore interviewed Smith on camera twice. But the scenes were left on the cutting room floor, apparently for greater dramatic effect.

Manufacturing Dissent includes a long catalogue of alleged exaggerations or distortions in several of Moores films. In Bowling for Columbine, a scathing indictment of US gun violence, Moore visited Toronto to show parts of the city that were supposedly so free of crime everyone left their front doors unlocked.

In the film, Michael makes it look as though 100% of the doors were unlocked, but his local producer told us it was really only 40%, said Caine.

Caine and Melnyk said they had hoped to interview Moore about his views on how much editing was acceptable before a factual documentary turned into misleading propaganda.

We had met him at a premiere of the Columbine film in Toronto, and he said, Oh yes, talk to my people and theyll set something up, said Caine. We then called his people and they said hes not doing any more interviews in Toronto. We had his e-mail, we sent a letter to his lawyers, we had his phone number in New York. But each time he said no.

Then Caine and Melnyk began to run into open hostility. Eventually, in a scene that might have come from Roger & Me, they were bundled out of an event at Kent State University, where Moores sister, Anne, knocked aside Caines camera.

Moore is reportedly editing his next film, Sicko, about the US healthcare system, and a spokesman said he had no comment on Manufacturing Dissent. On his website he dismissed critics of Bowling for Columbine as lying liars and claimed that organised groups going full blast trying to discredit me.

Yet Caine and Melnyk insist they should not be confused with the right-wing hordes who want to damage Moore.

If you have to sell out your values and principles to get at a greater truth, where does that leave you? said Melnyk.

If we think its wrong for the government to lie and manipulate, how do we think that doing it is the solution?

The Wiki Article on the movie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Dissent

///Edited out the weird characters - SpANG
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
bobhhh at 9:55AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Facts, not that you will care.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

//EDIT- made URL's clickable - SpANG
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
Mister Mxyzptlk at 10:12AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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bobhhh
Facts, not that you will care.

The word “fact” and Micky Moore go together like the word “compassion” and George Bush…
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:04PM
bobhhh at 10:14AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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sez you…a questionable source in your own right.
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SpANG at 10:17AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Mister Mxyzptlk
bobhhh
Facts, not that you will care.

The word “fact” and Micky Moore go together like the word “compassion” and George Bush…
If you are using a source like Wikipedia, you're on pretty shaky ground yourself.

Michael Moore's documentaries are filled with true facts, actually. It's when he tries to make it more compelling/entertaining by putting opinionated commentary, drama, and post production filming into the scenes. I personally would like to see a Doc without all that, but there is really no such thing. Everyone has an agenda. Even Caine and Melnyk.

But, anyone that thinks Moore doesn't check his actual facts usually don't know what they are talking about.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
imshard at 10:30AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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I like to think of michael moore as a fat bastard who has no business telling us how to stay healthy. That said yes the insurance companies are profit based institutions. Yet think of it this way: Chimpanzees eat meat and occasionally kill their young. You could make a documentary about it and characterize them as violent killing machines that rampage around the jungle murdering innocent babies. As a result you could start an international effort to get rain forests fenced off to prevent the ape-monsters from escaping and wreaking havoc on humanity and destroying the environment. Positing a few facts does not give an accurate picture of a situation. mr moore is an expert at manipulating facts to suit a political cause, NOT an unbiased journalist.
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bobhhh at 10:45AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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imshard
I like to think of michael moore as a fat bastard who has no business telling us how to stay healthy. That said yes the insurance companies are profit based institutions. Yet think of it this way: Chimpanzees eat meat and occasionally kill their young. You could make a documentary about it and characterize them as violent killing machines that rampage around the jungle murdering innocent babies. As a result you could start an international effort to get rain forests fenced off to prevent the ape-monsters from escaping and wreaking havoc on humanity and destroying the environment. Positing a few facts does not give an accurate picture of a situation. mr moore is an expert at manipulating facts to suit a political cause, NOT an unbiased journalist.

Even he will not claim himself unbiased, he is most certainly biased. Passionate in fact. But that doesn't make the fatcs in his films any less true. Does he exaggerate for dramatic effect? Sure. A small sin compared to the evils he exposes.

Oh and calling him fat is not a cogent way to discredit him. Check your statistics, insulting fat people in America is no way to make an argument.
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imshard at 11:07AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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imshard
I like to think of michael moore as a fat bastard who has no business telling us how to stay healthy. That said yes the insurance companies are profit based institutions. Yet think of it this way: Chimpanzees eat meat and occasionally kill their young. You could make a documentary about it and characterize them as violent killing machines that rampage around the jungle murdering innocent babies. As a result you could start an international effort to get rain forests fenced off to prevent the ape-monsters from escaping and wreaking havoc on humanity and destroying the environment. Positing a few facts does not give an accurate picture of a situation. mr moore is an expert at manipulating facts to suit a political cause, NOT an unbiased journalist.

Even he will not claim himself unbiased, he is most certainly biased. Passionate in fact. But that doesn't make the fatcs in his films any less true. Does he exaggerate for dramatic effect? Sure. A small sin compared to the evils he exposes.

Oh and calling him fat is not a cogent way to discredit him. Check your statistics, insulting fat people in America is no way to make an argument.

So you freely admit that he skews facts and bends the truth? And you still take him at face value despite admitting that his claims are dishonest?

Your making excuses for a snake-oil salesman. Saying “oh its ok” or “he did it with good intent” does not reverse the damage and lies that he sells for a profit. oh wait did you forget? He makes a crapload of cash on the deal. SHOCK? He doesn't even live the socialist ideals he espouses let alone believe them. I used to be a fan of his until I realized how shifty eyed his films are. Hell if you hate Mxy for his blind sarcasm why would you accept the same type of one-sided gibberish from somewhere else?
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bobhhh at 11:21AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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I didn't say he was a liar, i said he exxagerates for dramatic effect. That's no the same.

Check his facts page, he backs up all his assertions, that he lays it on a little thick doesn't mean he's lying.
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imshard at 11:37AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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bobhhh
I didn't say he was a liar, i said he exxagerates for dramatic effect. That's no the same.

Check his facts page, he backs up all his assertions, that he lays it on a little thick doesn't mean he's lying.

A little thick? Have you heard me at all? Like the rampaging Chimps it can be truthful as all heck and riddled with as many “true facts” as you like. But when you “exaggerate the facts a little” it becomes an untruth.
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bobhhh at 11:54AM, Dec. 12, 2007
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imshard
bobhhh
I didn't say he was a liar, i said he exxagerates for dramatic effect. That's no the same.

Check his facts page, he backs up all his assertions, that he lays it on a little thick doesn't mean he's lying.

A little thick? Have you heard me at all? Like the rampaging Chimps it can be truthful as all heck and riddled with as many “true facts” as you like. But when you “exaggerate the facts a little” it becomes an untruth.

I respectfully disagree as to the severity you claim as to his inaccuracies.
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imshard at 12:26PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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bobhhh
imshard
bobhhh
I didn't say he was a liar, i said he exxagerates for dramatic effect. That's no the same.

Check his facts page, he backs up all his assertions, that he lays it on a little thick doesn't mean he's lying.

A little thick? Have you heard me at all? Like the rampaging Chimps it can be truthful as all heck and riddled with as many “true facts” as you like. But when you “exaggerate the facts a little” it becomes an untruth.

I respectfully disagree as to the severity you claim as to his inaccuracies.

I can respect your view though I disagree as well. Undoubtedly much of his work has benefited some. Unfortunately its easy to ignore the flaws in a rabble-rousing tirade. He is not a voice of reason and I cannot stand a man who profits off of fear-mongering and societal inequities. He is a leech and a detriment to society.
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SpANG at 12:42PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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But what facts are in dispute? I haven't heard of any being in dispute. Just a bunch of loudmouths “claiming” he's a liar, or insulting his hygiene or stature so he MUST be lying. Moore actually gives us proof that the facts are correct. So where's the proof about his facts being wrong?

Just calling someone a “fat bastard” or a “liar” doesn't make them one.


The bottom line is that we are the ONLY INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY without Universal Health care. THE ONLY ONE. Shouldn't that send up a red flag to, oh, I don't know…. EVERYONE???

When it comes to Health care, the U.S. may as well be a third world country. Doc's receive kickbacks for over-medicating the populous, and only the rich or those ‘lucky’ enough to have some form of Health care by their jobs are even treated. Look, it's OBVIOUS that the Health Care System is corrupt, is anyone even disputing this???

I was really annoyed how quickly this movie was swept under the rug by the media. This was a wake up call for the U.S., and people still hit the snooze button.

JC, wake up, Sheeple!
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
CharleyHorse at 1:14PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Here's something both amusing and revolting. A surgeon recently began investigating the medications his sixteen year old daughter is taking to combat arthritis symptoms in her feet and knees that happened as a result of about a decade of strenuous gymnastics training. Hey, they take ‘em young and if they use ’em up that way . . . well there's always more youngsters fighting for another gymnastics training opening.

Anyway this surgeon became alarmed when he noticed all sorts of symptoms his daughter was displaying, symptoms that clearly were as bad or worse than the arthritis pain itself. So he looked up the medications and nearly shat a brick. He immediately took her off of both the pain meds and the anti-inflamatories and what not. Now he's sending her to an acupuncturist that my wife recommended. What, you thought I was just making this up?

This is a medicate unto death or insanity culture and even the wealthy don't escape from that nasty little evil. Even experts in the field sometimes get blindsided by the sledgehammer approach to dispensing powerful medications and multiples of the same for every problem, and the better your medical insurance or simply the more wealth you have the MORE and MORE TYPES of possibly mutually deadly medications will be cheerfully crammed down your throat - or - in this case a daughter's throat.

Wonderful, isn't it?

PS: Just imagine how freaked out and how disgusted a man of medical science has to get with his fellow professionals and their cure or kill approach to dispensing medications to actually send his daughter to an acupuncturist.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
imshard at 1:15PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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SpANG
But what facts are in dispute? I haven't heard of any being in dispute. Just a bunch of loudmouths “claiming” he's a liar, or insulting his hygiene or stature so he MUST be lying. Moore actually gives us proof that the facts are correct. So where's the proof about his facts being wrong?

Just calling someone a “fat bastard” or a “liar” doesn't make them one.


The bottom line is that we are the ONLY INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY without Universal Health care. THE ONLY ONE. Shouldn't that send up a red flag to, oh, I don't know…. EVERYONE???

When it comes to Health care, the U.S. may as well be a third world country. Doc's receive kickbacks for over-medicating the populous, and only the rich or those ‘lucky’ enough to have some form of Health care by their jobs are even treated. Look, it's OBVIOUS that the Health Care System is corrupt, is anyone even disputing this???

I was really annoyed how quickly this movie was swept under the rug by the media. This was a wake up call for the U.S., and people still hit the snooze button.

JC, wake up, Sheeple!

Nobody is disputing his facts. or at least I'm not. He used 100% accurate information. The problem is he is a spin doctor. And being the odd man out doesn't make you wrong it just makes you different. Not commenting on Socialized medicine in particular, but just because all the other lemmings are jumping off a cliff doesn't mean its a good idea. Socialized medicine has as many pros and cons as our current system. It wouldn't be a question if the insurance industry would abide by existing laws, and people READ their insurance agreements before signing them.

Wake up Sheeple!
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CharleyHorse at 1:24PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Someone
. . . people READ their insurance agreements before signing them.

Mr. Cletus Jones with your minimum wage job and seventh grade education, have you carefully READ your insurance agreement? What? What's that? You don't know what all them big fancy words mean? You can't afford to have some attorney translate them for you? tsk, tsk, tsk. Wait I know! George bush and his wealthy republican friends are always telling you that this is the greatest health care system on earth and that you can always trust that big business of all types have your best interests at heart, so go ahead and sign on that bottom line and trust in the powers that be to love you as much as they love themselves. Okay?

Oh yeah, Cletus since you've been assured that people like Michael Moore really aren't looking out for you and your best interests you can discount everything he puts in one of his films, because he's just a dishonest man with an agenda. So sign away Cletus. I mean are you going to trust Michael Moore or someone like, say, Rush Limbaugh; a man that you KNOW lives for the truth itself . . . because he's done told you so about a million times?

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
imshard at 1:35PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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CharleyHorse
Someone
. . . people READ their insurance agreements before signing them.

Mr. Cletus Jones with your minimum wage job and seventh grade education, have you carefully READ your insurance agreement? What? What's that? You don't know what all them big fancy words mean? You can't afford to have some attorney translate them for you? tsk, tsk, tsk. Wait I know! George bush and his wealthy republican friends are always telling you that this is the greatest health care system on earth and that you can always trust that big business of all types have your best interests at heart, so go ahead and sign on that bottom line and trust in the powers that be to love you as much as they love themselves. Okay?

Oh yeah, Cletus since you've been assured that people like Michael Moore really aren't looking out for you and your best interests you can discount everything he puts in one of his films, because he's just a dishonest man with an agenda. So sign away Cletus. I mean are you going to trust Michael Moore or someone like, say, Rush Limbaugh; a man that you KNOW lives for the truth itself . . . because he's done told you so about a million times?

I've only met one person named Cletus in my life, and he was a member of the mensa group. Your cliches sir are out of date. Free legal help is available in every state and most law-firms eat up contractual work for pro-bono credit. Additionally one of Mr. Moore's contentions is that poor and uneducated people cannot afford insurance, thus reading and understanding them is not a problem. My comment was intended for the large percentage of americans with insurance who don't bother looking at what they're putting a john handcock on.
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CharleyHorse at 1:38PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Ol' Michael Moore admits to being an entertainer as well as a man using the documentary form to educate people and initiate needed changes in the United States. His enemies latch on to the fact that he is an entertainer as well as a teacher to claim that everything he presents MUST be filled with lies and distortions. Yet, and yet, every time they come up with something to ‘prove’ a lie or a distortion other people - usually well known experts in that particular field - prove that Moore was either on the mark or one hell of a lot closer to it than the stuff that his detractors routinely utilize as propaganda. I find that interesting.

Consider the source of the majority of Moore's enemies. Where do they come from? Well, you've got the professional front men and women, the Coulters and Limbaugh's, Hannities, and O'Rielley's, but if you did just a bit you discover that they in turn have intimate ties with some of those famous republican think tank organizations that are, mysteriously, also heavily involved in promoting known republican talking points and politicians who long, long ago proved themselves willing to sell this nation down the river just to make a buck or two.

I don't doubt that a team of Canadian documentary hopefuls were interested in ‘interviewing’ Michael Moore on his film making techniques and what not. I also don't doubt that he got curious and did a bit of investigating of them and discovered that it's easy to claim liberal values and credentials but if several of the sources link back to the Canadian equivalent of a rightist think-tank, well then what's a Moore to do? This may be what happened. It may be that Moore is just so tired of being set up by people claiming to be or claiming to be interested in one thing and then turning out to be something entirely different or interested in something else entirely that he's reached the point of painting most of them with the same brush of suspicion. Who knows?

But I will point out that there are enough experts who agree with Moore's documentary on the U.S. health care system that I have a bit of a tendency to believe him, particularly when my personal experiences and those of damn near everyone I know mirror the truth of his revelations.
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mapaghimagsik at 1:39PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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Insurance companies hire many lawyers not to abide by existing laws. Also, its nice to see specific facts are once again being ignored.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
CharleyHorse at 1:43PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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imshard, are you even aware of how many millions of adults in the United States cannot afford health insurance, not afford health insurance that is actually worth a damn?

As for Cletus, well I had to call him something, didn't I. But since I know many Cletus types you can blow it out your ears. Most citizens of this nation live BELOW the middle class line and ARE easy targets of fraudulent jerks and companies. There are not anywhere near enough ‘free’ legal services available to handle the millions that need such help and advice which is why most people in need of such held DO NOT attempt to utilize what is ‘theoretically’ available.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
CharleyHorse at 1:55PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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I always find it fascinating that the knee-jerk defenders of the status quo are almost always fat and happy financially, are not currently having their lives unfairly dragged through the mud by a system designed to benefit the wealthy, and think that everyone has instant and free access to legal advice whenever they need it and probably to free medical care too. Of course they have never tried to avail themselves of such services themselves as a person living on the bottom of the social and economic scales of a nation that lives for capitalism.

Sure, a very small minority of people do receive free legal advice and some medical help and other and sundry benefits BECAUSE people on top of the heap can then point a righteous finger in their direction and say, “See? See?! I told you that poor people have it made in the shade in this nation and that nothing needs to be changed in any way whatsoever, except that maybe we should be a trifle harder on those damn lower class slackers!”

Unfortunately these are the sorts that help keep the status quo system working. I am rather grimly amused though, whenever one of these types occasionally topple from the heights due to bad luck and then they are surprised; nay; shocked, mind you shocked! that their smug assertions as to how easy and accessible things are on the bottom really turns out to be a load of rightist crapola propaganda after all. I have SUCH sympathy for such people. Really, this loud belly laughter of mine is actually a symptom of my deepest and most sincere sympathy.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
imshard at 2:00PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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posts: 2,961
joined: 7-26-2007
Indeed so why should I be financially liable for a bunch of people to stupid to avoid scam-artists. You're saying my taxes should go HIGHER just because a smooth talking agendist who is every bit as vile as the GOP talking mouths you despise showed you a couple statistics. I should sacrifice my financial freedom just because “millions” of americans are victimized by politicians, and ethically void legal entities?
Shove it. I don't like the system, and I won't be trapped into defending it. Yet at the same time the subject of this thread was Michael Moore's film and his trustworthiness. Insofar as that goes I'd rather trust a coyote with my only chicken than take his opinions and films at face value.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
CharleyHorse at 2:10PM, Dec. 12, 2007
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posts: 627
joined: 12-7-2006
Anyone bring up the dreaded dohghnut hole in medical insurance; you know that part that Bush and the Republicans rammed down the nation's throats a few years ago when they were in control of the legislative branch and wanted to make medical insurance affordable for everyone on a fixed or low or merely modest income?

See it's a neat little thing that only wealthy people would come up with to hawk as medical insurance HELP for the needy or the lower classes. Sure you can now get relatively cheap medical insurance, but after a time those inexpensive medicines you are able to purchase flip-flop back to their full and outrageous price and you have to pay that until the medical insurance company has recouped the cost of giving you access to radically reduced cost medicines to begin with. It doesn't matter how much time it takes nor how much money is involved nor the fact that you might die if you don't get your medications. Hell, this is big business, and that' ALL that matters in this nation.

So yo wind up thinking that you are getting something for your premiums and then you discover that what you are getting is an old-fashioned republican screwing over. I wonder how people have died so far from suddenly discovering that they could no longer afford the medications that were prescribed for keeping them alive?

Hey, you should have consulted someone offering free legal advice first! Yeah, just make an appointment and stand in line for a year or two because all those millions and millions of scammed elderly people and poor and lower class people also need that free advice too.

Oh wait, you DID finally get that free legal advice and discovered that the only way to get the same coverage that rich people get in their ‘no questions asked’ medical coverage is to PAY the same prices? Oh what's that? You now realize that the rubber stamp republican dominated legislative branch under George Bush just wanted to make it look like you were getting what they promised you while all along they were just helping the medical insurance companies scam you? Gosh who would think that republican politicians would actually care more for the wealthy and for big business interests in this nation than for the little guy and gal? Gosh, what's this country coming to?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
SpANG at 2:18PM, Dec. 12, 2007
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
Someone
. . . people READ their insurance agreements before signing them.
Yeah, and…?

I read my insurance agreement before signing it. It was the best of the other crap insurances I had to choose from. What was my alternative, pray tell?
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM

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