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Snake Vs Batman
Inkmonkey at 1:49PM, Nov. 4, 2009
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Hakoshen
Inkmonkey
Hand to hand, though? Easily, Batman. Easily. Outside of cut scenes, Snake's a pretty average fighter. In-game, if you somehow have no weapons and are forced to fight a group of twenty guys you are S.O.L. Batman eats those kind of odds for breakfast. The game's actually kinda boring if you have to go against a group that doesn't number in the double digits.

Again, it seems I'm the only person defending Snake, though, in actuality, Batman would probably win just based on the fact that he's not a dying old man with three weeks to live. The reason why Snake couldn't beat 20 armed opponents is because he's not fighting random thugs, he's fighting experienced soldiers. When is the last time Batman did that? In fact, how often does Batman fight any single person, much less an army of them who's a halfway decent shot? Now, assuming anyone has such an example, when did it happen without the cover of night and his fancy toys to swing around with?

Snake's not even the best hand-to-hand fighter in his own game! Grey Fox or Raiden would tear him to pieces if they were forced to fight in a single room unarmed.

Ironic, because that very thing happened, and Snake won.

Look, I'm only really defending Snake because I'm at work and I'm bored as hell, and in all honesty Old Snake without his medicine would spazz out and die from his nanomachines even if he won. Old Snake is a dead man either way!

I'm pretty sure Snake still had access to his equipment during those fights, though, and that's really all this quiz is asking.

Unfortunately I don't have an extensive knowledge of all things Batman to dig into in order to find a perfect example of him defeating a skilled opponent without the use of any weapons whatsoever. The best I can think of is one time he fought Ras al Ghul after being stripped of his utility belt (and after al Ghul had de-aged himself) and managed to win. I know he beat Captain America once, but he did have access to his utility belt at the time, and Cap still had his shield. He did take down Guy Gardener once with a single punch after Guy agreed to fight him without the use of his ring.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
ERasER at 10:08AM, Nov. 5, 2009
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harkovast
You want to know what would happen?

SNAKE? SNAKE!!!

Batman would kick his ass! But he wouldn't kill him. He'd take him down and then find a brilliant way to escape.
'Cause he's Batman
I completely disagree, Snake would puff some smoke in batman's face say something witty and snap his neck
BackSeat Gamers
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
Insizwa at 3:30PM, Nov. 5, 2009
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Hey guys, remember when Batman kicked the shit out of Superman, then “died” of a heart attack in Return of the Dark Knight? If Batman can fight superman and win, I'm pretty sure he could kick Old Man Snake's ass, (even if Batman did have a wicked cool combat suit).
Someone
I'm pretty sure Snake still had access to his equipment during those fights, though, and that's really all this quiz is asking.

You can access the inventory in the fight against Gray Fox but you aren't required to use it. It's pretty simple for Snake to just punch him in the face.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:01PM
Hakoshen at 7:40AM, Nov. 6, 2009
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Insizwa
Hey guys, remember when Batman kicked the shit out of Superman, then “died” of a heart attack in Return of the Dark Knight? If Batman can fight superman and win, I'm pretty sure he could kick Old Man Snake's ass, (even if Batman did have a wicked cool combat suit).
Someone
I'm pretty sure Snake still had access to his equipment during those fights, though, and that's really all this quiz is asking.

You can access the inventory in the fight against Gray Fox but you aren't required to use it. It's pretty simple for Snake to just punch him in the face.

Not that you aren't required to use it, you can't. If you try to shoot Grey Fox he'll start blocking the bullets with his sword and scream “You can't beat me with weapons!” Kinda strange, that a man who can move his body fast enough to block fully automatic gunfire can't win in a boxing match.

And wasn't there a krytonite arrow involved in that fight somewhere? Superman never had any real technique for fighting, so an older, kryptonite weakened Superman would definitely loose to Batman, assuming Batman wasbeing physically on equal ground with better technique.


So if we took THAT Batman, and Old Snake, they'd start out good with all their fancy stuff but in the end, they'd be slugging it out and then they'd both die from heart failure. Before dying, Batman whispers to Snake “We'll always have the moon,” and Snake will in turn reply “Always.”
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
Insizwa at 8:48AM, Nov. 6, 2009
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I'm not too sure about the kriptonite arrow thing, but that could be in a reference to another time Batman kicked Superman's ass (it happens a couple times). But I know for sure in that fight Superman was partially weakened, due to the sun being blocked. Anyway this debate won't solve anything, but I still have to say Batman (30 yr old Batman that is). Return of Dark Knight Batman is a little sketchier, but if he can beat a partially weakened Superman (who doesn't age), then I'm sure he could take Old Snake no problemo.

EDIT: There was a kriptonite arrow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:01PM
NickGuy at 11:08AM, Nov. 6, 2009
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i cant believe people actually think snake would win.

Batman: trained by ninjas, possibly the smartest man alive.

Snake: gets captured every other mission, is nothing more than a glorified grunt.

yeah snake can pull weapons out of nowhere, but batmans utility belt has more surprises than god. if they met randomly on a battlefield, batmans ability would beat snake everytime. and if they had time to prep, batman would win even more badly. hed probably hack into snakes nanomachines and make his nervous system go crazy.


EDIT: and if this is old man snake, fuhgeddaboutit

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
Hakoshen at 12:23PM, Nov. 6, 2009
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i cant believe people actually think Batman would win.

Snake: trained by ninjas, possibly the smartest man alive.

Batman: gets captured every other mission, is nothing more than a glorified cop.

You could turn that around and say exactly the same thing.


But instead, I'll say this;

God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
Insizwa at 10:14PM, Nov. 6, 2009
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Whatchu talkin' bout? Batman barely ever gets captured. And Snake the smartest man alive? I lol'd hard at that one. In the games be barely ever figures anything out for himself, it's always Campbell or Otacon who has to explain everything. Meanwhile Batman is the greatest detective on the fucking planet.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:01PM
ERasER at 6:27AM, Nov. 7, 2009
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Insizwa
Whatchu talkin' bout? Batman barely ever gets captured. And Snake the smartest man alive? I lol'd hard at that one. In the games be barely ever figures anything out for himself, it's always Campbell or Otacon who has to explain everything. Meanwhile Batman is the greatest detective on the fucking planet.
Greatest detective? Seriously? - I have seen the recent Dark Night movie and the only reason he can even class as a detective is the millions of pounds worth of equipment he can buy.
Whereas Snake mostly relies on his own capabilities, first level of a metal gear solid game he has no weapons and uses stealth to accomplish his goals. Plus he's a master in CQC where batman is not!
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
Insizwa at 10:10AM, Nov. 7, 2009
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Wow, your points against Batman are absolute fallacies. Have you even read the Batman comics at all? Batman IS a master at CQC and he DOES use stealth. Sure Batman has a bunch of gadgets (so does Snake BTW), but both have shown their stealth capability without equipment. Sure Batman has a shit ton of detective equipment, but all that is useless when the Riddler gives him a extremely hard riddle and the has to work it out himself (not talking about the game or movie riddles either, those were easy). Snake has never really sleuthed, and figured things out. A lot of the time people just tell him straight up what they're up to. For example it wasn't like he found out with his expert detective work that he and Liquid were both clones, Liquid just told him. Sure they were hinting at it a lot but he didn't even have a clue. The only thing I can think of that he figured out for himself, was that Gray Fox was the cyborg ninja and I would certainly hope so because he knew the guy. The only real detective work comes from the people speaking to him on the codec, they have to sift through info and connect the dots, while Snake just kills people. I'm not saying Snake is a dumbass, I'm just saying he ain't no vigilante detective. He's a glorified soldier. And if the sum of your Batman knowledge came from just the movies I would encourage you to read some of the comics/graphic novels.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:01PM
isukun at 10:18AM, Nov. 7, 2009
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Plus he's a master in CQC where batman is not!

Really? You DO know what CQC is, right? Even if you go by the Metal Gear definition of the term, you're still talking about someone who has mastered basic self defense techniques vs. someone who has actually mastered a number of martial arts. CQC isn't intended for that scenario and it certainly wouldn't give Snake a leg up in a fist fight, especially since CQC doesn't work as a prolonged fighting style. It is meant to quickly subdue an adversary and typically relies on the element of surprise. If you have the two of them in a room together and they're told to fight, I doubt Batman's going to be surprised.

Still, there isn't really any way to determine a winner. If the criteria is that they must kill the other person, Batman has the upper hand in a hand-to-hand fist fight, but would never kill another human being just to save himself. The writers would find some way for Batman to save them both or have them cooperate to both survive, Batman would just keep knocking Snake out until they both died from the toxin, or Batman would LET Snake win so at least one could survive.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
Inkmonkey at 10:24AM, Nov. 7, 2009
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ERasER
Whereas Snake mostly relies on his own capabilities, first level of a metal gear solid game he has no weapons and uses stealth to accomplish his goals. Plus he's a master in CQC where batman is not!

Does advanced mastery of an unspecified number of martial arts count as a form of CQC? Because Batman's got that. As far as I'm aware, he's considered the greatest martial artist in the DC Universe. Well, that's not entirely true: he was bested once in straight on martial arts (no equipment, etc.) by the Karate Kid, a superhero from the future who is so good at martial arts that it's classed as a superpower. He's also beaten the new Batgirl more than once, and she was essentially mute because the speech centers of her brain had been rewired to interpret martial arts as a language, literally allowing her to “read” her opponents movements like a book and react accordingly.

So… yeah. If Batman doesn't technically know CQC, he at least knows enough other forms of martial arts to be the equivalent.






Also, I'm iffy on the Snake v. Gray Fox fight as being a real test of martial arts ability, since Gray Fox was kind of getting off on getting slapped around.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
ozoneocean at 10:44AM, Nov. 7, 2009
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Wow… I just watched King of Kong but those guys were nothing to this. o_O

But that makes me think of something…
In a duel at Donkey Kong, who would win? Snake or Batman?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
Insizwa at 10:52AM, Nov. 7, 2009
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CQC just stands for close quarters combat, it's a very general term. All forms of hand to hand combat can count as CQC.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:01PM
Hakoshen at 12:03PM, Nov. 7, 2009
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Wow… I just watched King of Kong but those guys were nothing to this. o_O

But that makes me think of something…
In a duel at Donkey Kong, who would win? Snake or Batman?

Batman. Easily! I don't think I've seen SNake do anything with any kind of computer other that insert discs or take them out.

As for Batman being the smartest anything anywhere, well that's simply wrong. Batman's IQ is only rated at about 130, whereas Snake's is 180. That's sub genius to super genius, or if you pushed the scale downwards it would be the difference between being a sub genius or being retarded. But IQ is a measure of intellect, not smartness. Batman is the smartest superhero in the DC universe, but what is that really saying? The only people who come off as halfway intelligent in that universe all have money to throw away on toys or training that make them seem smart. Snake gets a lot of help from a team of the best and brightest the government could get together, to include a partner who builds mecha, but typically only if the player can't figure things out themselves. And Batman DOES get captured, I don't know where one might think he doesn't.

And that's another thing; Batman has had over 50 years of stories and the like to flesh out his history, whereas Snake has seven or so games where his every deal has to be solved by the person controlling him, and the games aren't exactly geared towards puzzles or detective work. Of course the guy who's spent years solving puzzles is going to seem like he's smarter, but in all honesty what detective work has Batman actually done that any competent detective with his resources couldn't? Can Snake say “To the Batcave to use my supercomputer and ultra hi-tech forensic equipment?” Batman is only the greatest detective on the planet because he has the most resources and the most freedom.

I hear all this about Batman was trained here to do this and here to do that, but I've almost never seen Batman do anything that didn't look like basic karate or boxing with some jiujutsu or judo mixed in. Pretty much like your average MMA fighter. Bottom line is it doesn't matter how many styles you know, it's how well can you apply what works, something BOTH contenders have done on many times. I haven't seen anything in Batman's training that would give him a definitive advantage in any way, as they've both been doing martial arts for keeps for a long time.

And again I keep seeing that Batman would win because “he'd figure out a way to save them both or he'd outwit that” until the writers gave him an out. If the writers put them in a fight to the death with no convenient Deus Ex Machina to spare either of their lives, and one of them has to die, who would win? The detective or the soldier?

God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
Inkmonkey at 3:17PM, Nov. 7, 2009
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And again I keep seeing that Batman would win because “he'd figure out a way to save them both or he'd outwit that” until the writers gave him an out. If the writers put them in a fight to the death with no convenient Deus Ex Machina to spare either of their lives, and one of them has to die, who would win? The detective or the soldier?

For the purposes of this argument I would say that the focus should be on the fact that Batman is essentially a Ninja over the fact that he's also a detective. If it came down to it, I would put money on a ninja over a soldier.

edit: also, a bit of research reveals that, apparently, Batman is a reported master of every known style of martial arts. I think, more than anything, that just shows how differently of a scale Batman operates on. Snake exists as the top of the food chain in a world where cyborg ninjas breakdance fight bio-organic mechas, whereas Batman exists at near the top of the food chain in a world where individuals can pick up planets and throw them at each other. His skill set dips more into the “fucking ridiculous” zone than Snake does.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
Lonnehart at 6:13PM, Nov. 7, 2009
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Well, this is a “Snake vs Batman” combat thread. But I'm going to disregard that for a moment. How about having them racing to see who can get to their target.

So put their target inside a very complex bunker with lots of (and lots of kinds of) traps, locked doors (no ordinary locks here… think the laser defense device from the Resident Evil movie), a mazeful (or two) of passageways and dead ends… the the place is quite fortified (really crawling with guards). And to get to him they have to move in stealthily because once discovered the computer system will coordinate all its resources and the intruder would soon be… toast. Who do you think will get to their target first?

*ugh… maybe I should've made this a seperate thread…*
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:39PM
Hakoshen at 7:23PM, Nov. 7, 2009
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Inkmonkey
also, a bit of research reveals that, apparently, Batman is a reported master of every known style of martial arts.

A: That IS quite ridiculous, as Batman never uses any moves outside of basic karate, boxing or judo unless the circumstances are quite extraneous.
B: More so because it would take centuries to learn every style of martial arts, and that's assuming the persons knowing the style would teach him.
C: I don't know if I said this before, but all the styles in the world don't amount to anything but how well you use your skill set, and functional skill sets boil down to basics. No matter how many different styles you use it comes down to just a few basic things; punch, kick, throw and submission. So person A. knows Kung Fu, Karate, Muy Thai, Juko Kai, etc. etc. Person B. lands one good hit to person A's face with enough concussive force to render person A. unconscious. That's twenty thousand moves person A. can go over in his head while he's asleep.

And if we're going based on their stealth capabilities then they're both ninjas, Snake even having the advantage of being able to camouflage any pattern or even better, turn invisible.

Batman's at the top of his food chain only because the people who can throw planets are allergic to rocks or other painfully exploitable weaknesses that Batman happens to have handy and everyone knows it.
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
Inkmonkey at 8:09PM, Nov. 7, 2009
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Hakoshen
Inkmonkey
also, a bit of research reveals that, apparently, Batman is a reported master of every known style of martial arts.

A: That IS quite ridiculous, as Batman never uses any moves outside of basic karate, boxing or judo unless the circumstances are quite extraneous.
B: More so because it would take centuries to learn every style of martial arts, and that's assuming the persons knowing the style would teach him.
C: I don't know if I said this before, but all the styles in the world don't amount to anything but how well you use your skill set, and functional skill sets boil down to basics. No matter how many different styles you use it comes down to just a few basic things; punch, kick, throw and submission. So person A. knows Kung Fu, Karate, Muy Thai, Juko Kai, etc. etc. Person B. lands one good hit to person A's face with enough concussive force to render person A. unconscious. That's twenty thousand moves person A. can go over in his head while he's asleep.

And if we're going based on their stealth capabilities then they're both ninjas, Snake even having the advantage of being able to camouflage any pattern or even better, turn invisible.

Batman's at the top of his food chain only because the people who can throw planets are allergic to rocks or other painfully exploitable weaknesses that Batman happens to have handy and everyone knows it.

Hey, I'm not saying it's not ridiculous, but that's the problem you face here: Batman's skillset is simply ridiculous. His skills have been so exaggerated over the years to allow him to not only keep up with the demigods he hangs out with, but actually surpass them in most regards that he's essentially a deus ex machina unto himself. Your argument basically comes down to is that Batman's mastery of all forms of martial arts doesn't count because Snake's fighting style is better because it's simpler. Yet you seem to contradict yourself by saying that Batman himself seems to rely heavily on more straightforward martial art styles rather than the flashier, more esoteric forms. Snake's CQC is essentially a wittling down of a combination of martial arts into a refined form that combines the most efficient moves for fighting hand to hand. Do you think Batman just arbitrarily goes into Crane Style because he knows how to do it? He does essentially the exact same thing as Snake; he just has a less realistic level of experience and training.

And really, that's what it comes down to. Batman is just ludicrously, stupidly overpowered. It's like asking Bruce Lee to fight Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star. Sure, we all want Bruce to win, but Kenshiro can casually walk trough a goddamn building falling on his head. Bruce never stood a chance.


So put their target inside a very complex bunker with lots of (and lots of kinds of) traps, locked doors (no ordinary locks here… think the laser defense device from the Resident Evil movie), a mazeful (or two) of passageways and dead ends… the the place is quite fortified (really crawling with guards). And to get to him they have to move in stealthily because once discovered the computer system will coordinate all its resources and the intruder would soon be… toast. Who do you think will get to their target first?

Again, I'll go with Batman, but only because he has his grapple gun to bypass a lot of traps. Assuming he doesn't (or if all the rooms are small enough to make it a moot point), the only real advantage is that Batman knows how to hack computers himself, and wouldn't need to rely on Otakon to do it for him. Other than that, honestly, they're pretty evenly matched.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
Hakoshen at 9:19PM, Nov. 7, 2009
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Inkmonkey
And really, that's what it comes down to. Batman is just ludicrously, stupidly overpowered. It's like asking Bruce Lee to fight Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star. Sure, we all want Bruce to win, but Kenshiro can casually walk trough a goddamn building falling on his head. Bruce never stood a chance.

Yeah…

And I'd probably have to go with Batman on the second bit. On site technological advantage. Though to be fair, Snake has a radar and a map built into his head. Damn you and your hypotheticals! I thought I'd gotten out of this when I stopped giving my friends rides on the hour long trip to and from the university!
God needed the Devil, the Beatles needed the Rolling Stones, Hakoshen needs me.
I'm the enemy he requires to define him.
Soon or later, he'll bring me back to life again for another epic encounter of shouting about power levels and grimacing.
-Harkovast
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
isukun at 11:53PM, Nov. 7, 2009
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I thought they got rid of the radar and map.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
ozoneocean at 1:15AM, Nov. 8, 2009
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At Donkey kong, I think Snake would win because he's a videogame character and probably knows the tricks of the trade. Batman is a game character too, but that's ALL snake is so he'd have the advantage. ;)
Inkmonkey
Batman's mastery of all forms of martial arts
As Hak says, that's a bit silly. It's like knowing all forms of language ever in existence; that's not going to make you the perfect book writer because most of those words mean the same things and you can only use a specific set at any given time anyway because most people only understand one.
Knowing all fighting styles doesn't count for much except codpiece size, except to the sort of people who wonder who would win in a fight between a shark and a velociraptor.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:35PM
mlai at 4:39AM, Nov. 8, 2009
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About Snake's IQ and detective ability, etc:

People ask “Well has Snake ever figured stuff out all detective-like? No? Aha!” That's not a realistic question. Batman is a crime detective character. Snake is an action spy character. Totally different areas of expertise. Did you actually listen to all his radio conversations in the games? Does he sound like a dummy, when he is so versed in all the most sensitive dirty secrets of the international espionage scene? Do you think (in his game world) he just read all that in a newspaper? He's a freelance agent; who do you think connected all the dots for him? Himself. Snake has a very high IQ, just applied differently.

About a completely fair and open fight between Snake and Bats:

Batman trained in and is experienced in stealth, efficient no-frills CQC, and has honed his physical body through rigorous training.

Solid Snake trained in and is experienced in stealth, efficient no-frills CQC, and has honed his genetically-enhanced physical body through rigorous training.

In a realistic setting, anything physical Batman can do, Snake can do. And vice versa. The fight is not going to be 1-sided. If they fight 100 times, it's gonna be something like 49-51.

In a fanboy setting, yes Batman has had 50 real-life years of existing in a superhero universe. He can probably fight Son Goku and somehow win. Whereas Solid Snake has always been treated realistically; his enemies always have more raw power than him, and Snake wins through skill, brains, tools, and luck.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
ERasER at 6:23AM, Nov. 8, 2009
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To be fair I don't think this debate will end, we all have different opinions on who would win this fight (Epic fight) - There is practically no way to settle this unless ‘DC comics’ do a feature on this fight or somehow batman is introduced in ‘MGS’

Although if this fight ever does happen in one way or another, I shall be first in line to watch ^^
BackSeat Gamers
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
Inkmonkey at 8:35AM, Nov. 8, 2009
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mlai
In a realistic setting, anything physical Batman can do, Snake can do. And vice versa. The fight is not going to be 1-sided. If they fight 100 times, it's gonna be something like 49-51.


I think that's a fair assessment. At the end, though, I still think Batman would at least be the 51.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:00PM
ERasER at 8:51AM, Nov. 8, 2009
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Inkmonkey
mlai
In a realistic setting, anything physical Batman can do, Snake can do. And vice versa. The fight is not going to be 1-sided. If they fight 100 times, it's gonna be something like 49-51.


I think that's a fair assessment. At the end, though, I still think Batman would at least be the 51.
I'll settle for 49 ^^
BackSeat Gamers
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
NickGuy at 11:35AM, Nov. 9, 2009
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mlai
In a fanboy setting, yes Batman has had 50 real-life years of existing in a superhero universe. He can probably fight Son Goku and somehow win.

this is the greatest sentence ever

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
“Kung Fu Komix is…so awesome” -threeeyeswurm
“Kung Fu Komix is..told with all the stupid exuberance of the genre it parodies” -The Real Macabre
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM

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