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Star Trek....anybody see it yet, and if so, what did you think?
DAJB at 11:59PM, May 13, 2009
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ozoneocean
DAJB
Having to worry about that much continuity can be so restricting!
Perhaps, but it's also a great sources of inspiration…
It can be but, with something like Star Trek, there's the danger of having thousands of die-hard fans complaining that Person X didn't meet Person Y until three days after Event Z happened. A re-boot shouldn't have to worry about that kind of detail.

Every re-telling of Batman's origins, for example, sticks to the basic facts but changes a few details (had his family just seen Zorro or Die Fledermaus, for example?) without worrying about disrupting the continuity established in the previous movies. Star Trek and Star Wars fans haven't traditionally been very accepting of that kind of flexibility.

Of course Batman movies have changed details without feeling the need to waffle on about having established an “alternate reality”. But, with Star Trek, I'm sure that was the price they felt they had to pay in order to keep the die-hard obsessives in their place! They can still draw on events from previous movies/TV episodes if they want to, but they've also given themselves the freedom to change as much as they want.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
ozoneocean at 1:23AM, May 14, 2009
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DAJB
re-telling
It's interesting though…. Why do they bother? The core stories aren't that good, the core concepts and ideas are pretty stupid actually, in Trek AND Batman.

Why bother re-telling them at all?

Obviously it has nothing to do with the strength of the story or any intrinsic characteristics that make the activity worth-while. It's only because of the existence of fans that they do it at all. lol!

-NOT to appease the fans or rely on them for money. Rather: The fan base keeps the mythology alive, they keep the concept going in pop-culture which helps spread the idea and keep others interested in them, when without them it'd disappear totally and be no more viable than any other silly idea for a film.

So it's an interesting little symbiotic relationship, and the fans are an important part of it. In fact, I imagine that if the “fan” reaction was amazingly negative to a Hollywood adaption in the form of a series or film that was cashing in on whatever idea they were keeping alive, they could be a significant factor in helping sink it by poisoning general popular opinion against it…
But that'd be rare; to have that sort of strong influence they'd either have to be unusually united in taste, or the idea would have to be not quite big enough to have garnered a lot of secondary and tertiary interest…
Or else things like the new starwars films would've run into trouble lol!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
CharleyHorse at 6:07AM, May 14, 2009
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Also let's face a bit of reality here. Most of the original Star Trek fans are relatively old now and they have had it drummed into their skulls during a life time of societal, technological, and cultural changes that THINGS DO CHANGE. They do not necessarily LIKE change but they are resigned to the inevitability of change in most facets of their lives.

While most of them may have wished for a Trek universe forever frozen in time most of them do understand that in order to keep the franchise commercially viable they are going to have to give the writers and producers and director the necessary license to be artistic in regards to one of these movies. That's the other thing to recall about the original Trekies; they in their turn do recall what it was like to fear that the series was forever done with after the 1960s. They would rather have an altered Trek universe than no Trek universe at all.

Then, too, what do you think that the second rendition of Trek was in the 1980s? It was placed two centuries or so after the original Trek activities occurred simply so that there could BE changes. If you stop to examine The Next Generation rather closely you realize that in comparison to the original series it was about nothing other than change.

So, yes, some of the hard core Trekies will grumble and complain but they will STILL go see each new film and gather around the television sets to keep tabs on any new television rendition of their beloved Trek concept, and changes be damned.

The core essentials are what really matter to them in the long run. Does it still seem like a legitimate and viable Trek universe of some sort? It it still full of action and adventure and what passes for social or cultural commentary for the day? Is there – within the limits of the artistic premise – character interaction and development? Is there someone or something that is Spock like or Data like or Worf like present? Is some female character STILL inappropriately dressed so that grizzled audience geezers and young and barely post pubescent punks can leer and dream?

When all is said and done, does it remain Star Trek in its essentials. If so then the fans will be satisfied enough for commercial considerations, and that's all that's really important.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
ccs1989 at 4:50PM, May 14, 2009
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ozoneocean
DAJB
re-telling
It's interesting though…. Why do they bother? The core stories aren't that good, the core concepts and ideas are pretty stupid actually, in Trek AND Batman.


The core concepts in Trek have to do with building upon existing physics knowledge combined with the idea of exploration and a never ending frontier. Pretty solid concept with a lot of potential.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:39AM
Product Placement at 5:11PM, May 14, 2009
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ccs1989
The core concepts in Trek have to do with building upon existing physics knowledge combined with the idea of exploration and a never ending frontier. Pretty solid concept with a lot of potential.
Actually, the original core concept of Star Trek was to promote tolerance and criticize current political issues. It dealt with concepts like authoritarianism, imperialism, class warfare, economics, religion, human rights, racism, sexism and many others. Many of these topics were unpopular among authority and hard to bring up but by dealing with these concepts in a futuristic scenario that didn't seem related to Earthly matters, Roddenberry managed to put out many issues he wanted people to think about and make statements about sensitive topics while disguising them enough so that networks wouldn't censor them.

This ideology managed to carry itself over to the next generation in some form but it's been slowly fading away.

Fun fact: Did you know that the original series featured the first interracial kiss seen on television? It was between Kirk and Uhura.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
CharleyHorse at 5:33AM, May 22, 2009
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Okay we finally got around to seeing the new movie, the wife and I. We thoroughly enjoyed it, and bear in mind that we both grew up with the original television concept and all of the previous stinking and putrid Trek movies – Lordy but they were bad – and so we entered the movie house fully prepared to be disappointed again in a nostalgic sort of way. Trek movies are SUPPOSED to be BAD.

Well . . . it disappointed our expectations only in that it wasn't bad at all! It was a downright enjoyable viewing experience. We LIKED the various alterations to the old Star Trek reality line because it all – as Spock might say – made logical sense and laid a solid foundation for the successful launch of a new television series, if that turns out to be the direction the producer is going with this.

There were a few caveats to choke down, of course, but they weren't anything we couldn't live with:

No matter how thin you slice baloney it remains baloney and we were unconvinced that in this action packed universe the younger women in Starfleet would adhere to the old 1960s Roddenburry dirty old man concept of wearing mini-skirts while on duty. They should at least have turned them into kilts and then put some of the men into them as well. I would be surprised if a new television series based on Kirk's youthful years would dare to be that chauvinistic.

I don't care how brilliant or dynamic or how much leadership potential he demonstrated, a third year academy cadet would not be promoted to full captain's status – not even after saving the day – and given the fleets flagship to command. He would either be promoted to command of an old rust bucket or given the rank of lieutenant Junior Grade and then placed on the flag ship itself to season. It was a great fantasy, but it takes TIME to learn how to be a good captain.

Well, we could both live with the above logic glitches and we did very much enjoy the movie experience. We give it two thumbs waaaaay up.

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
Product Placement at 7:44AM, May 22, 2009
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CharleyHorse
Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler
To be fair. He did not only save the day. He saved all of earth and since the beam hit San Fransisco, the leadership of Star fleet was there to witness it.

Such thorough saving of collective assess tends to take you far in most stories. At very least he should be promoted to some low leadership position on the Enterprise and be granted access to the bridge. From there he could easily climb himself up to captain in the end.

But otherwise, I agree. In real life, he probably wouldn't have been promoted to captain on their flagship.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
CharleyHorse at 9:12PM, May 22, 2009
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Product Placement, as I think about it, though; the huge promotion advancement and reward WOULD probably work out quite well in a cartooning concept. The reader would be very willing to accept just such a thing.

Different medium of expression and slightly different entertainment or story telling rules.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
korosu at 6:03PM, May 25, 2009
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All my life I've been religiously against Star Trek (my heart belongs to the Force), but a bunch of my friends dragged me to see the movie, and I have to say…I loved it. Absolutely LOVED it. Of course, since I'm not a fan of the show I didn't come in with a lot of expectations. Still, it was a very enjoyable movie.


(Of course, that still doesn't mean I'm going to try and watch the show. I still have my principles.)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:21PM
CharleyHorse at 8:04AM, May 26, 2009
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korosu I envy you. This is because if the day ever comes that you DO decide to get interested in the Trek Universe and start sorting through it you will have tons of television shows and movies and books to mess about with.

Of course the problem will all that, as I see it, is that most of the movies produced were some degree or the other of BAD. Most of the television shows were fine in all four or five series but I can't deny that eventually one is apt to ask, “What's the bloody point to all this?!”
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
ozoneocean at 8:27AM, May 26, 2009
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CharleyHorse
…Roddenburry dirty old man concept of wearing mini-skirts while on duty. They should at least have turned them into kilts and then put some of the men into them as well.
I remember doing a double take at that first episode of The Next Generation… You didn't notice? Men look weird in minidresses. T_T
CharleyHorse
He would either be promoted to command of an old rust bucket or…
Like Hornblower… Which was inspiration for the original idea:
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
Hawk at 11:27AM, May 26, 2009
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I've heard the general rule for Star Trek Movies is that the even-numbered ones are the good ones. So if one were to expose themselves to Star Trek, they'd catch the good ones like Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country while avoiding turds like The Final Frontier.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
CharleyHorse at 9:35AM, May 28, 2009
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ozoneocean
I remember doing a double take at that first episode of The Next Generation… You didn't notice? Men look weird in minidresses. T_T

Really? Hah! No, I don't remember that. Truth to tell I was so pissed off over the stupid ‘Q’ introduction of outright magic in a traditionally hard science series that I refused to watch The Next Generation for the first year. I KNOW that Q uses super science so advanced that it is indistinguishable from magic but I STILL think that they shouldn't have opened a new Trek series with ANYTHING that smacked of outright magic. Arrrrrrrgh! It STILL pisses me off after all these years. Ahem! Not that I am a Trekie or anything. Blush!

Hawk
I've heard the general rule for Star Trek Movies is that the even-numbered ones are the good ones. So if one were to expose themselves to Star Trek, they'd catch the good ones like Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country while avoiding turds like The Final Frontier.

Yeah, I think that actually does more or less work out that way. I liked some of the previous Trek movies, but I can't say that I was ever enthusiastic about any of them . . . except for this last one which I think was damn good!
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:40AM
Product Placement at 2:32PM, May 28, 2009
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Hawk
I've heard the general rule for Star Trek Movies is that the even-numbered ones are the good ones. So if one were to expose themselves to Star Trek, they'd catch the good ones like Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country while avoiding turds like The Final Frontier.
Yeah, I think they call it the Start Trek movie curse. That all the odd numbered movies are destined to suck.

However it's not perfect. At least one or two of the even numbered movies were considered a commercial failure and this new movie is an odd number. Although since it's supposed to be a genre relaunch, it could be that they may have broken the curse.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM

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