Debate and Discussion

The DANGERS of fluoride
vexx78 at 10:07PM, Feb. 17, 2009
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I never thought twice about drinking from the tap and always thought that fluoride was good for you. Why would the government try to poison the public right? Well, after some research I came to the conclusion that fluoride is a danger to the public and we've been deceived by the government once again! Do your own research and make up your own mind but here are some sites to get you started. And I'm sure there are people that will call me a quack but I'm just trying to warn people there MIGHT be something more to the fluoride in the water than we were lead to believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3y8uwtxrHo

http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/
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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:40PM
Skullbie at 11:48PM, Feb. 17, 2009
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Drink water with fluoride- start puberty earlier
Drink less filtered water- consume shit particles

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
humorman at 2:09AM, Feb. 18, 2009
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Wow! You have, like, totally opened my eyes! Come to think of it, I always thought the water in my faucet tasted a little funny. Besides, if youtube said it was true, than it has to be. Seriously, I think you might have discovered the next Watergate scandal in the U.S.A.! You know, I think the government is trying to cover this up with pointless issues like the waterboarding incidents in Guantanamo Bay, but you single-handedly exposed the government for what it truly is!

Speaking of which, I think there is another chemical harmful to us that the government isn't warning us about: hydrochloric acid! That's right! Your body probably contains several milliliters of the stuff right now, but the government never tells you. In fact, the government has already programmed vital organs in your body like your liver and your pancreas to produce this acid on it's own. Therefore, the only way to rid yourself of this wretched acid is to remove your own liver and/or pancreas. Don't worry, they're probably not vital organs, probably.

Well, from this point on, I vow to never drink tap water again in order to rid myself of the horrible fluorine once and for all. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to brush my teeth.

Billy vs. Tree – The epic struggle of boy versus tree.
Sonic Colores – It looks like it's going to be a good game because I love how the way it makes me grow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:51PM
imshard at 6:52AM, Feb. 18, 2009
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Wow, sarcasm! That's original!
Its not a matter of filtered or unfiltered, its a matter of whether you want extra chemicals designed to destroy organic matter added after it has been filtered and treated. Note the same stuff material is usually added in sufficient quantities to melt steel if it were undiluted.

Yes the human body can withstand certain amounts of flouride. But like a carcinogen or any other toxin, do you really want to chance it if it can be avoided?

We can withstand certain amounts of arsenic too. Doesn't mean you should drink it on a regular basis though.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
Hawk at 9:37AM, Feb. 18, 2009
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The Fluoride issue has the unfortunate disadvantage of being a favorite topic for the raving conspiracy theorists. This doesn't mean it isn't an issue worth looking at.

If fluoridization of water were to change, I would want it to be because groups of legitimate scientists urged it to happen, not because fringe groups convinced enough uneducated people to demand that it happen. You can convince paranoid people to want nearly anything.

I'm not against the idea of fluoride being bad, I just want to hear it from the right people. Impartial people.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
skoolmunkee at 11:52AM, Feb. 18, 2009
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humorman, sarcasm isn't really in the spirit of the debate/discussion forum.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:42PM
DAJB at 12:47PM, Feb. 18, 2009
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My question is … why would they? When it comes to government actions, I'm as big a sceptic as the next guy but who supposedly gains from this?

Are there huge fluoride manufacturers pouring billions into politicians' pockets just so they can shift their product? If so, how would they make that money back when drinking water is provided at minimal cost?

I know the whole fluoride-in-water issue has been controversial since at least the 1950s, but I just can't see any benefit to the government or to anyone else in a position to influence the government. On balance, therefore, I'm prepared to give the politicians the benefit of the doubt on this one.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
kyupol at 1:04PM, Feb. 18, 2009
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I love my fluoride.

Because of fluoride, my teeth got whiter, my brain got smarter and my dick got larger.

I love you, New World Order!!!
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
humorman at 3:02PM, Feb. 18, 2009
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I'm sorry.

Billy vs. Tree – The epic struggle of boy versus tree.
Sonic Colores – It looks like it's going to be a good game because I love how the way it makes me grow.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:51PM
kyupol at 4:32PM, Feb. 18, 2009
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http://www.whale.to/b/fluoride_q.html

“Here in Toronto we've been fluoridating for 36 years. Yet Vancouver - which has never fluoridated - has a cavity rate lower than Toronto's.” –Dr. Hardy Limeback, B.Sc., Ph.D., in Biochemistry, D.D.S., head of the Department of Preventive Dentistry for the University of Toronto, and president of the Canadian Association for Dental Research. http://www.apfn.org/apfn/fluoride-expert.htm


————


http://my.folsomtelegraph.com/detail/106174.html

New York – February 17, 2009 – Kids ingest excessive fluoride, studies show, not just from toothpaste, but from their foods, making water fluoridation unnecessary and unsafe.

—————-

http://www.discounttropicalaquariums.com/tank-setup-saltwater.html

Type of Water
To avoid nuisance algaes growing in your tank, it is recommended to get Reverse Osmosis De-Ionized water. You can often times buy this kind of water at the fish store where you found your saltwater pet. You can also buy RO water at your supermarket, as well as distilled water. What you don’t want to use is tap water from the sink. It contains elements that are detrimental to your saltwater tank. Chlorine, Phosphate, Nitrate, Fluoride and more are readily detectable in tap water, but your saltwater tank needs pure water to keep your fish healthy.


————-




NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
Backstaber at 5:52PM, Feb. 18, 2009
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Still gonna drink the water from the faucet anyway. :P
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:15AM
JoeL_CQB at 9:21PM, Feb. 18, 2009
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there's also what you call a water filter which you could by at the drug store if you want to be safe….
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:10PM
kyupol at 6:44AM, Feb. 19, 2009
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JoeL_CQB
there's also what you call a water filter which you could by at the drug store if you want to be safe….

Is it at least a 4-stage filter? If not, you're just wasting your money.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
bravo1102 at 1:42AM, Feb. 20, 2009
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Hawk
The Fluoride issue has the unfortunate disadvantage of being a favorite topic for the raving conspiracy theorists. This doesn't mean it isn't an issue worth looking at.

If fluoridization of water were to change, I would want it to be because groups of legitimate scientists urged it to happen, not because fringe groups convinced enough uneducated people to demand that it happen. You can convince paranoid people to want nearly anything.

I'm not against the idea of fluoride being bad, I just want to hear it from the right people. Impartial people.

Nah, the you can't convince the converted no matter how much substantiated evidence you present. Cognitive dissonance. It's great reading what those who believe immunization causes autism even though a few dozen repeated studies cannot prove it and have conclusively disproven it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
ozoneocean at 5:34AM, Feb. 20, 2009
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Oh god… chemistry people. The stuff can't phucking harm you in the form and the level it's in.
You can't filter it either: it's dissolved.

When fluoride harms you it doesn't do it by tiny gradual stages. It just does it. It's not some cumulative poison like lead or cadmium for goodness sake! if the calcium in your system starts getting eaten away by Fluoride you DO notice it and it HURTS.

A guy working in his backyard here a few years ago, using hydrofluoric acid on some concrete got a small bit splashed on his hands. He wasn't wearing protection and he didn't have a solution that would neutralise it. So he jumped in his swimming pool hoping that would save him. He died very fast.

Man I wonder what these guys would think if they knew that nitroglycerine was a very effective heart medicine. -one of the most explosive conventional materials ever developed. Whoops, now I've told them lol!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
imshard at 6:18AM, Feb. 20, 2009
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I care to disagree Ozone. Are you familiar with the concept of lead poisoning? It works the same way. Slow accumulation and exposure, usually through water. Nobody thought lead pipes made drinking water dangerous, until people starting manifesting systems and now we mostly use PVC or copper.

In fact any material harmful to the body can accrue to the point where it affects your health over time. Its called Poisoning. Same way Cigarettes can give you cancer or alcohol can wreck your liver. Some people get away with consuming them for years but in the long run frequent exposure WILL harm you.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
ozoneocean at 6:48AM, Feb. 20, 2009
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That's the problem: it's NOT like lead. At all, in any way. the human body has a problem with Al heavy metals from uranium, to cobalt, to mercury, to cadmium, to lead… And so on.

Gold is OK though, you can eat that if you like :D

But good old fluoride… no. It WILL kill you in the right amount and the right form. Make NO mistake. And it won't be a nice way to die.
But i's not a cumulative poison, it just doesn't work that way. The people pushing that agenda are nuts. Painful, annoying nutjuobs.

Even non-radioactive Uranium, which apparently IS NOT innately harmful will do a LOT more harm to your internal organs if it keeps building up compared to the fluoride you consume in fluoridated water. …which doesn't ;)

I'm sorry to say this, but ceasing consumption of fluoridated water will provide you as much protection from harm and death as a hat covered with aluminium foil. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
imshard at 7:55AM, Feb. 20, 2009
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ozoneocean
But good old fluoride… no. It WILL kill you in the right amount and the right form. Make NO mistake. And it won't be a nice way to die.
But i's not a cumulative poison, it just doesn't work that way.

Tell me, HOW do you know its not a cumulative poison?
I have met respectable, practicing medical professionals and nutritionists, who have advised to the opposite. When you break a bone good doctor tells you not to drink tap water because the flouride retards your body's ability to produce calcium.

Ostensibly municipal water supplies add a pre-bottled mix of flouride that is safe. This does nothing to take local chemical content into account. 15 people died in Almira Michigan when the high salt content of their water interacted with the flouride and produced Sodium fluorosilicate. Sodium fluorosilicate becomes deadly at .2g within an exposure period up to 12 hours. Hydrogen fluoride is even worse and can result in chemical burns, and I don't have to tell you how much hydrogen is available in h2O.

I'm not going to pedal you the crack-pot theories about it being forced medication or the illuminati trying to kill us. I simply know that its an outmoded and hazardous material. Like asbestos, it was once considered beneficial but is not safe to use. Seriously though, enough people brush their teeth now that its not even needed. Let's at least not take the risk.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
isukun at 1:05PM, Feb. 20, 2009
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I could have sworn this whole conversation already happened.

Hydrogen fluoride is even worse and can result in chemical burns, and I don't have to tell you how much hydrogen is available in h2O.

There is a lot of Hydrogen in there. Problem is, getting it out of there. You need intense heat to create hydrogen fluoride and even then, it is a highly reactive material which is quick to break down into other fluorides. That's why you usually don't see too much of it outside of smelting plants and factories. In nature, you don't see too much of it outside of active volcanoes. I don't think you have to worry too much about tap water magically converting itself to hydrofluoric acid. Even if you boil your water you aren't exposing it to enough heat to cause that reaction.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
ozoneocean at 2:03PM, Feb. 20, 2009
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imshard
Tell me, HOW do you know its not a cumulative poison?
I have met respectable, practicing medical professionals and nutritionists, who have advised to the opposite. When you break a bone good doctor tells you not to drink tap water because the flouride retards your body's ability to produce calcium.
It's NOT cumulative because of the kind of chemical it is. It has no trouble passing through the body, unlike the aforementioned heavy metals.

Nutritionists are not respected professionals. What they practise is 1/10th common knowledge science and 90% pop theory on food. I'm not surprised they tell you things about Fluoride. As for medical professionals, being a doctor doesn't confer sense on someone unfortunately. I knew doctors that practice acupuncture and homoeopathy. By that token- YES, abstaining from tap water WILL be god for you, because the placebo effect will probably have some bearing then ;)

As we keep saying- the fluoride is not in a form or in a sufficient amount to affect the calcium. Besides, The body doesn't produce calcium, stars do that. You just ingest the stuff. But the fact is that most studies show that even when you drink a lot of milk or take a lot of calcium salt supplements not even much of that goes to the bones. You really don't have to worry about fluoride stripping it- you ingest more calcium than you do fluoride… If the stuff in toothpaste and tap water did work that way it'd be nullified by your food intake anyway.

As to your anecdote about the deaths in the small town, a source would be good. But I'd seriously doubt the veracity of the scenario since it amazingly unlikely. I've no doubt those people could have died from exposure to that chemical, but I don't believe it had anything to do with the fluoride ions added to their drinking water - since the standard process is such that it would be impossible. Indeed, I know for a fact that we have fluoridated water supplies here with extremely high salt content and yet nothing of the sort has ever occurred. (or could, logically, if you go by the chemistry).
So if those people actually DID die and it really was from exposure to said chemical, I would speculate that the source was somewhat different from the one you believe. -accidental chemical spill, supply tampering, a catastrophic breakdown or error with some mechanical process or other that resulted in the contaminate being introduced.

-Such things happen. Not song ago Several miners became extremely ill after water contaminated by uranium tailings leaked into the reservoir of their drinking water. The situation wasn't discovered for several days, during which time the poor men had bein increasing their exposure.

-Anyway, go with Isukun's advice ;)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
imshard at 2:57PM, Feb. 20, 2009
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let me make this simple.
Fluoride in almost any form bonds to calcium, that calcium is then not usable by your body. Very few forms of it are safe for consumption, and it doesn't take much for its chemical structure to change or reform into one that is hazardous.

Water treatment facilities regularly superheat and re-condense water to purify it. Thus increasing the odds of unwanted chemical reactions.

Fluoride only works topically to protect the dental enamel. There is no benefit whatsoever, and considerable evidence of harm, from ingesting fluoride. Many dentists are aware of this fact.

Half of all ingested fluoride remains in the skeletal system and accumulates with age.

Fluoride is an effective insecticide amongst other things and works by destroying critical enzymes (G-proteins). This is how it negatively affects human health as well. For example, fluoride disrupts thyroid health by displacing iodine uptake in the thyroid gland and it also causes calcification of the pineal gland, which disregulates the pituitary gland, which is the master gland of the endocrine system. Pineal calcification is especially prevalent in teens, who are going through growth spurts. Fluoride accretes in bone, and bone turns over more rapidly during periods of growth. Who knows a teen with disrupted sleep habits? Fluoridated communities have higher rates of hip fractures, and higher rates of cancer.

Money saved from halting water fluoridation programs can be more wisely spent on public health education about diet and topical fluoride varnishes for those at risk for dental decay.

Before it is added to water, most fluoride is purchased from factories and powerplants as a byproduct and classified as toxic waste by the EPA.

More benefit could be obtained from spending the same money on hygiene and public health programs as on fluoride.

Deny it all you want but the fact is minerals and not just heavy metals become trapped in the body. If they didn't we'd fall apart into greasy pools of fluid.

P.S.
I'm not talking about the health food guru's when I say nutritionist. I was talking about the trained biochemists I know whose actual jobs are to determine whats edible before their company sells it. (no I won't tell you who, suffice to say you've probably eaten their products.)

Edit: Sorry, I double-checked .5% of ingested flouride DOES benefit enamel. My bad
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM
HippieVan at 3:03PM, Feb. 20, 2009
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imshard
P.S.
I'm not talking about the health food guru's when I say nutritionist. I was talking about the trained biochemists I know whose actual jobs are to determine whats edible before their company sells it. (no I won't tell you who, suffice to say you've probably eaten their products.)


My mother works for Health Canada. Her job is to determine whether things are safe to be eaten. I just asked her about this, and she basically confirmed what Ozone has been saying.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:49PM
isukun at 7:55PM, Feb. 20, 2009
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Water treatment facilities regularly superheat and re-condense water to purify it. Thus increasing the odds of unwanted chemical reactions.

If the fluoride was added in before the purification process that might be an issue (well, not really, the water isn't heated to the point where it breaks the molecular bonds, even in the purification process), but the fluoride is added in a liquid state and is added to the main lines after the water is purified, so there isn't ANY risk of unwanted chemical reactions involving fluoride.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
Product Placement at 9:30PM, Feb. 20, 2009
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No one has mentioned the chlorine that they also add to the water. I know that's added to reduce the number of bacteria in the water but good god. I've tasted US tap water and it was horrible. I'll never go near that shit. If I order a coke in a restaurant and it turns out that it was made in a post mix machine (cola in syrup form mixed with carbonated tap water) I have to turn it away because even that tastes revolting (and no, I'm not one of those pansies that ask before hand and starts to whine if they say yes. I can easily taste it).

I have a funny story. Do you people remember a Simpson episode where Bart insulted Australia and he had to go there to apologize? The whole thing started because Bart found out that water in the southern hemisphere turned counter clockwise while it turned clockwise in America and called Australia to check. When they visited the US embassy over there the toilet system had been rigged to force the water to turn clockwise so that the US personnel would feel more at home. I never figured how true this joke was until I heard of this particular case.

Well, there used to be a US army base in Iceland near where I lived and the local government one day realized that the army was shipping water to the base from America. Figuring that was a bit wasteful, Icelandic government representatives contacted the army officials and asked why they simply didn't buy water from them. The Army asked for samples of tap water to test which was quickly provided. Shortly after the Army responded with a request to receive unfiltered water to test. Apparently they thought that the water had been treated because the purity levels were considered too high. They were told that this was not the case and the water was unfiltered. Naturally the water was qualified and the US troops stationed there were treated with local water but here's the kicker. It was decided that the water should, despite it's purities, be treated with chlorine and fluoride anyways, so that the soldiers would feel more like home.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
Shade at 4:06PM, Feb. 21, 2009
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Forget fluoride, I've discovered there's something even more toxic in the water supply. It can cause results such as damage to the central nervous system, lungs and eyes creating symptoms such as disorientation, breathing difficulty, vision changes, damage to cell membranes, collapse of the alveoli in the lungs, myopia, retinal detachment and seizures.

Yes that's right the fiend I speak of is… Oxygen! Granted this only occurs from exposure to pure oxygen, yet oxygen is a toxin and you'll notice it doesn't accumlate to unsafe levels in the body and kill you. The point is, just because something is toxic one way doesn't make it completely harmful. In fact pretty much anything good for you has it's bad points too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity

Here's another lovely example you seem to think calcium is harmless correct? Well then perhaps some Calcium Hydroxide should be perfectly healthy? I mean it's just Calcium, hydrogen and oxygen right? Let's see:

* Inhalation: Respiratory tract irritation. Coughing, shortness of breath, chemical bronchitis.
* Ingestion: Internal bleeding, possible perforation of esophagus, severe pain, vomiting, diarrhea, and collapse.
* Eyes: severe irritation, pain, ulceration, blindness.
* Skin: burns, blistering.
* Chronic Exposure: dermatitis or severe irritation to skin.

So wait, good things can be bad for you under certain conditions? It might even interest you to know Calcium Hydroxide is used to remove solute from drinking water as part of sewage treatment AND as a Calcium supplement in mineral fortified baby formulas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_hydroxide

But by all means let's worry about a little diluted fluoride your only getting small doses of at a time. As a user of heavily fluoridated toothpaste (Neutra Fluor 5000+, look it up it's the most fluoride you can have in toothpaste) and a drinker of tap water I have not as of yet ever had any adverse effects to my health from it, unless you count hardening of the enamel on my teeth an adverse effect.

The fact is most things are harmful if they are handled incorrectly, the fluoride in the water supply is about as toxic as the oxygen. Which is to say, very under the right conditions which fortunatly, they aren't.

Whoot! We just hit fifty comics!
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:31PM
arteestx at 5:25PM, Feb. 21, 2009
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I did a little research and here's what I came up with…

The History of Fluoridation
In the early 1900s, Dr. Frederick S. McKay began an almost 30-year search for the cause of the staining of teeth that was prevalent in Colorado, where he practiced dentistry. In his investigation, McKay found the condition common in other states, including Texas, where it was known as “Texas teeth.” In 1928, he concluded that such teeth, although stained, showed “a singular absence of decay,” and that both the staining and the decay resistance were caused by something in the water. In 1931, the “something” was identified as fluoride. ….In 1943, he reported that the ideal amount of fluoride was one part per million parts of water.

The next step was to determine whether water engineering could copy nature's amazing dental health benefit. At several test sites, the fluoride concentration of the public water supply was adjusted to one part per million. One such test was conducted in the neighboring cities of Newburgh and Kingston, New York. …After ten years, the children of Newburgh had 58% fewer decayed teeth than those of nonfluoridated Kingston. ….

Too much fluoride can cause dental fluorosis, which, in its mildest form, causes small, white, virtually invisible opaque areas on teeth. In severe form, fluorosis results in brownish mottling. However, dental fluorosis is not caused by artificial fluoridation, because the levels are kept low enough to avoid this effect.
quoted – http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/fluoride.html

Fluoride Connection to Health Problems?
Since then, some people have done studies claiming to find health problems connected to fluoridation. For example, Dr. Elise Bassin did a dissertation finding that children who had highly fluoridated water at ages 6-8 showed a higher degree of bone cancer at age 20 by a factor of over 5 times. No effect was seen with girls, and this was a subset of a larger population, so the study does have its critics.
source – http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190977,00.html

The National Academies of Science did a study where they found health problems in people who have fluoride levels at or near 4mg/L in their water, which is the highest level approved by EPA. 200,000 people in America have water at this level and they show a higher degree of developing severe tooth enamel fluorosis and also bone fractures. 1.4 million Americans have fluoride water levels at 2mg/L, the EPA secondary recommended level, and the studies show mixed results, with some moderate tooth enamel fluorosis but not enough to be a health risk beyond tooth coloration, and inadequate data for bone fractures.
source – http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=11571

The American Dental Association points out that the NAS study looked at localities at the extreme upper end of EPA regulation, and the ADA still stands behind the dental benefits of water fluoridation at 1 ppm.
source – http://www.ada.org/public/media/releases/0603_release02.asp


So it looks to me that there is some legitimate concern about water fluoridation at very high levels around 4 ppm. But I wasn't able to find any studies showing any health problems with populations who have water fluoridation at the ADA recommended 1 ppm.


Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
Product Placement at 2:42AM, Feb. 23, 2009
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Shade
Here's another lovely example you seem to think calcium is harmless correct? Well then perhaps some Calcium Hydroxide should be perfectly healthy? I mean it's just Calcium, hydrogen and oxygen right? Let's see:

* Inhalation: Respiratory tract irritation. Coughing, shortness of breath, chemical bronchitis.
* Ingestion: Internal bleeding, possible perforation of esophagus, severe pain, vomiting, diarrhea, and collapse.
* Eyes: severe irritation, pain, ulceration, blindness.
* Skin: burns, blistering.
* Chronic Exposure: dermatitis or severe irritation to skin.ns which fortunatly, they aren't.

I'm sorry but that's a stupid example. Sure calcium, in it's pure form, may be good for you but Calcium Hydroxide is a chemical compound. When you mix different elements together you normally get something with drastically different properties.

Take for example chlorine and sodium, a highly toxic gas and an unstable mineral. Combine the two and you have table salt.

Take oxygen, one of the three things that's essential for fire to exist. Take Hydrogen, one of the most potent fuel for fire. Combine the two and you have something that puts out fire, water.

And chemicals can be different depending on how it's put together. Glucose, table sugar and fat are all chemicals made from Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen, each one respectively more complex.

Even elements can have different chemical makeup. Carbon can be found in pure form as graphite, coal or a diamond.

In short. I find this example of yours to be invalid. However.. kudos on the oxygen toxicity example. All things that may be good for you are normally bad in large dosage, and vice verse. Heck, some doctors have figured out that some of the worlds most deadliest poisons can be good for us… in a very, very small dosage.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
ozoneocean at 3:29AM, Feb. 23, 2009
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Product Placement
Sure calcium, in it's pure form, may be good for you
Hahaha, it's not. It's like sodium. You eat some of that and your neck will end in a bloody stump lol!

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imshard- in the form Fluoride is added to water there is not enough to have that affect on bodies or the bones therein. None of those negative health problems are backed up by reputable agencies IF you're talking about the fluoride as it is added to water supplies in the amount and form that is common practise. IN the form and amounts that it's added to the water supply it DOES NOT accrete to the bone or what have you. It just doesn't. Just like drinking a calcium plus milk DOES NOT strengthen your bones any more than normal milk, even though nutritionists and advertising people would like you to think that it does- the science doesn't show it. the trouble with this fluoride bullshit is just like the rest of the health/nutrition fringe fad stuff: They extrapolate from real studies into areas of wild speculation where it just doesn't apply.

For that very reason the satirical examples given by PP and Shade are quite appropriate: they illustrate what's happening; something that is true in one instance, taking into account certain conditions, is inappropriately extrapolated to be true in all conditions. That's not scientific man. It's fine to extrapolate and formulate a hypothesis, but you have to realise that extrapolation is ALWAYS subordinate to data about real world conditions and studies actually focusing on the the specific real world conditions that you are speculating and extrapolating about.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:33PM
Product Placement at 5:47AM, Feb. 23, 2009
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ozoneocean
Product Placement
Sure calcium, in it's pure form, may be good for you
Hahaha, it's not. It's like sodium. You eat some of that and your neck will end in a bloody stump lol!

*Removes foot from mouth*

Sigh…. you got me.

Allow me to reverberate: Sure calcium, as a beneficial ingredient of a consumable, nonthreatening and not at all poisonous food product (like, for example, milk), may be good for you….

Better?
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
imshard at 10:41AM, Feb. 23, 2009
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isukun
Water treatment facilities regularly superheat and re-condense water to purify it. Thus increasing the odds of unwanted chemical reactions.

If the fluoride was added in before the purification process that might be an issue (well, not really, the water isn't heated to the point where it breaks the molecular bonds, even in the purification process), but the fluoride is added in a liquid state and is added to the main lines after the water is purified, so there isn't ANY risk of unwanted chemical reactions involving fluoride.

Ok my point isn't that fluoridated water is immediately toxic. Even though the risk of accidents resulting from the use of hexafluorosilicic acid (the most common fluoridating agent) in municipal water supplies is quite high (dangerouness not likelihood). Since it decomposes under nominal conditions and once it is diluted resulting in free Fluoride ions. Ions that can and do recombine with other elements without special stimulus. Even lava sulfate and sand bed filtering does little for this and 98% of US water supplies are closed loops that recycle the same water continuously. The same water is treated and retreated with fluoride. While fluoride is usually only added in amounts that would equal 1ppm few districts bother measuring the existing content of fluoride and instead focus on chlorine and Ph levels. Fortunately safety commissions usually shut down a supply if it is discovered to exceed 7 ppm fluouride.

That said, it is the long term effects that concern me since incidents of actual immediate toxicity are quite rare. When asked, most officials and professionals will correctly tell you fluoridated water is safe because by and large it is. You can safely drink tap water and not die. But over time it will lead to long-term health effects as the material accumulates in your tissues and modifies your body chemistry.

It belongs in toothpaste where its greatest effectiveness (as a topical treatment) can be achieved.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:58PM

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