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The Dark Knight: AFterthoughts
Sysli at 12:21PM, July 24, 2008
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Thank Hawk, it's good to know I'm not the only one it's happened to. It really does feel weird to find yourself thinking “Wauw, I really should think that this explosion/joke/action filled armed combat is awesome… but I don't”.

And this movie had some really really good scenes, I just felt… detatched. It was slightly creepy now that I think about it, I usually enjoy most movies, even the ones that are just bad. Heh.
Because I may as well show a bit of pride. ^___^

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
Priest_Revan at 1:15PM, July 24, 2008
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I'll sum the movie down into one word:

“Amazing.”


That's it.
Updates Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday's (depends).

7/0

Offering Project Wonderful Ad space on my website.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:49PM
Custard Trout at 3:05PM, July 24, 2008
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I liked it, but it was an hour too long.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:01PM
bobhhh at 4:55PM, July 24, 2008
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What can you say? People love Batman and are going to wax about a movie of this caliber.

Having said that its easy to see where some folks might not respond and in fact may feel pressured to respond in kind, souring them even further on something they didn't much care for in the first place.

I did like iron man, but i too didn't get the hype about it being so incredible, and it almost ruined it for me. No one like to be told how much they should like something, and it seems to me the dissenters can only make the next movie better by pointing out this installments flaws.

After all, the only thing you learn from getting your ass kissed by the film going public is how much square area your ass occupies.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:30AM
LIZARD_B1TE at 5:03AM, July 25, 2008
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Sysli
Hm, hm, hmm. It seems like a lot of people liked it.
I on the other hand… It's not that I think it's a bad movie, but I don't think it was good. Don't get me wrong, it had everything it was supposed to have, I ought to have liked it. But it just never got me interested.
And no interest = no disbelief to suspend = cool things not being cool (aka nulled rule of cool).
Notice how I cannot say what I think was wrong with it? It's because I honestly don't know. There was a lot of minor things I probably wouldn't have noticed if I'd liked it.
Even the funny bits didn't make me laugh. And I knew in the deepest parts of me that it.was.funny.dammit! :(

And it's not like I know much about Batman, so I can't explain it with that.
I think I must be flawed. I'll not even point out the bits that I found icky, because it's not worth wasting all you good people's time with.

I was the same way with 300. I think that it's a just a case of hype backlash, like bobhhh said.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
Custard Trout at 5:49AM, July 25, 2008
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It would have been far better if they cut out every bit that didn't involve the Joker.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:01PM
skoolmunkee at 2:34PM, July 25, 2008
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Custard Trout
It would have been far better if they cut out every bit that didn't involve the Joker.

You're a dirty liar
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:41PM
Drasnus at 3:14PM, July 25, 2008
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Custard Trout
It would have been far better if they cut out every bit that didn't involve the Joker.
Christian Bale is a legend of our time.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:16PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 5:00AM, July 26, 2008
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I just found the greatest parody of this movie ever:

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/sketches/38-sketches/868-gnn-interviews-the-joker

Note: The text at the bottom of the video contains a few spoilers
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
DAJB at 7:09AM, July 26, 2008
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LIZARD_B1TE
I was the same way with 300. I think that it's a just a case of hype backlash, like bobhhh said.
No, nothing to do with hype backlash in that case.

“300” was actually a very, very poor film!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
lastcall at 9:10AM, July 26, 2008
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DAJB
“300” was actually a very, very poor film!

Really? …I liked 300. Visually, I thought it was stunningly beautiful, and they did a good job emulating the feel of the Frank Miller graphic novel–even better than Sin City, in my opinion. …Observe. ;)



last edited on July 14, 2011 1:28PM
Sysli at 1:18PM, July 26, 2008
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Well lastcall, based on the images you show I'd say 300-the-movie looks much more “soft” and polished than 300-the-comic, but this is not the place to discuss that. Besides, I never saw it, so I don't have a real opinion.

Back to Batman.
I think you guys may be right, coupled with the fact that I just wasn't in the right mindset to see a movie like that. And it could have bee the best movie EVER IN THE UNIVERSE!!! but it would still feel lacking if you're sceptical from the start.

I feel like asking about other's opinions about some of the minor details, so… Did the whole “guns are too fast” thing work for anybody? After I've thought about it it does seem fitting with this incarnation, but I though it a bit weird when I first heard it.

Hopefully somebody'll know what I'm talking about.
Because I may as well show a bit of pride. ^___^

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 1:29PM, July 26, 2008
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Sysli
I feel like asking about other's opinions about some of the minor details, so… Did the whole “guns are too fast” thing work for anybody? After I've thought about it it does seem fitting with this incarnation, but I though it a bit weird when I first heard it.

Hopefully somebody'll know what I'm talking about.

You mean the Joker preferring knives to guns thing? Makes perfect sense. Even though I knew it was coming as soon as he said “do you know why I use a knife?” It seemed pretty obvious that “guns are too fast” was going to be the reason.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
jalford at 3:04PM, July 26, 2008
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Plus, the whole smile scars thing seemed a little more realistic than the Joker gas/poison/venom thing, which sometimes kills people.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
Sysli at 3:24PM, July 26, 2008
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Yep LIZARD_B1TE, that was what I meant. And I'll have to agree, it does make a lot of sense. This Joker actually made a lot of sense like jalford said. But I alway liked the over-the-top comic-science, so it's just not as much, er, fun. Heh.
I sound rather morbid now I guess.

Oh, and the different explanations for the scars were a nice touch. Mysteries are always great, and we never did get a real explanation for those scars. Or who he was for the matter. But it does seem like it was a defining moment (well, duh! Now I'm just stating the obvious) since he keeps threatening people with a permanent makeover. I'm sure somebody out there will have some interesting theories about things like that.

I'm beginning to enjoy thinking about some of the details here, so it couldn't have been that bad a movie.
Because I may as well show a bit of pride. ^___^

last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
kingofsnake at 4:00PM, July 26, 2008
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The Joker did have a few “comedy” moments in TDK. I think the fact that they stressed the psychopath over the clown soured it for some fans. But not me, the clowning was totally there, it's just easy to lose it in all the crazy. I don't think it was limited to the disappearing pencil trick and the nurse outfit (although those are the two specific old-school joker things he did.)

My favorite part about the hospital scene wasn't the nurse outfit, or the fumbling with the remote or any of that. The Joker was wearing an “I believe in Harvey Dent” campaign sticker. To me that NAILED the joker's sense of humor.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
Priceman at 9:12PM, July 26, 2008
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Good God in Heaven, that was spectacular! I'll edit with more later; gotta get over the shock that it's over.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:47PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 5:45AM, July 27, 2008
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kingofsnake
The Joker did have a few “comedy” moments in TDK. I think the fact that they stressed the psychopath over the clown soured it for some fans. But not me, the clowning was totally there, it's just easy to lose it in all the crazy. I don't think it was limited to the disappearing pencil trick and the nurse outfit (although those are the two specific old-school joker things he did.)

What I liked about his comedy moments was that the more you think about them, the less funny and more disturbing they seem. To me, that is the perfect take on psychopathic clowns.

“Let me show you a magic trick. I'll make this pencil disappear…”
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:38PM
Rori at 8:39PM, July 27, 2008
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kingofsnake
The Joker did have a few “comedy” moments in TDK. I think the fact that they stressed the psychopath over the clown soured it for some fans.

I found that one of the best parts of the movie. The Joker was actually better written than most, say, serial killers in “serious” movies, where they try too hard to make some sort of order out of their madness, to make them sympathetic. True, people get turned off by things that don't “make sense” but that doesn't make it any less true. Despite my problems with the movie (which I stand by), it was amazingly refreshing to see a glimpse of true madness/chaos on screen.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:11PM
SpANG at 9:32PM, July 27, 2008
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It was good. I enjoyed it. It wasn't the best movie of the year as some people would have you believe. And it certainly wasn't the best movie ever made. I was never ‘amazed’ by it. I was entertained.

Heath Ledger was great. But I don't think it was an “oscar worthy” performance, as some say. It was dull and over the top (and not in a good “Joker” way) in some areas. Heath Ledger was a good actor, but he was never a GREAT actor. Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine are great actors (severely under-utilized in this movie), and you can't even compare Heath Ledger to those guys. Of course, Ledger will probably win a posthumous Oscar, but it's because the academy will be too afraid not to give him one. I will admit that this was his best performance, though. But I personally think that Aaron Eckhart did the best acting in this movie.

- The Batsuit (both versions) were extremely stupid looking.
- The ‘badass’ voice was really annoying.
- There was an obvious missing scene where the cop was going to pound that tar out of the Joker, and the Joker got the better of him. I suppose they weren't able to complete that shot because of Ledger's death, but they could have used stand-ins or something. It looks dumb the way they did it.
- The car sucks as it sucked last movie. I'm glad it's destroyed.
- I don't like the whole “Lucius Fox” angle anyway. Bruce Wayne is supposed to be a genius that makes his own devices. This whole James Bond “Q” thing is retarded.
- It was predictable. But I suppose people don't like surprises these days, so it's safe.

As good as Iron Man. Hancock was better than either. Sorry, my opinion.



“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
jalford at 12:17AM, July 28, 2008
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Gotta check out THIS interview Bale did about Superman and Wondertits.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
DAJB at 2:15AM, July 28, 2008
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My only big problem with this film was that, by the end, it was beginning to feel a little needlessly drawn-out and episodic. There were plenty of opportunities to end it earlier and that would have made the storyline much tighter. On the other points people have raised in this thread:

I agree with everyone else - Ledger was great. But I'm not going to jump on the “let's-bash-Nicholson” bandwagon that other parts of the media have started up. Jack was a perfect Joker and that's what makes Heath Ledger's performance so remarkable. It's a tribute to this portrayal that he could make the role so different and yet still make it shine.

Batman's voice was annoying, I think, because he used it even when he didn't need to. In the first movie, it was clearly a tool to hide his identity and to frighten the bad guys. In this film he used it even with friends who already knew his identity which was kind of pointless.

The destruction in the mall was pretty silly but no more so than the Batmobile chase in the first movie. I hated that scene since it was so out of character for him to put so many other lives at risk to save just one (even if it was Rachel's!) The mall scene in the new movie is just as out of character, but not bad enough to seriously detract from the film as a whole.

Overall, this was a great movie for about two hours and a good one for the last 20 minutes. And I suspect it will get even better with repeated viewings. I'm sure the more you watch it, the more quickly the weak points will start to diminish in importance and its strengths will become increasingly obvious.


last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
isukun at 3:04AM, July 28, 2008
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In the first movie, it was clearly a tool to hide his identity and to frighten the bad guys.

Actually, there are places in the first movie where he uses the voice for no particular good reason, as well. Like that final fight scene. Ra's clearly knew who he was and wasn't going to be intimidated by Bruce sounding all gravely, yet he still uses the voice when they're the only two people on the train.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
Custard Trout at 4:36AM, July 28, 2008
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I thought it was so he couldn't be recognized by his voice? I suppose that doesn't really explain why he used it on the train. Unless it was just easier to keep it up than to switch between them.
Hey buddy, you should be a Russian Cosmonaut, and here's why.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:01PM
SpANG at 6:10AM, July 28, 2008
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Custard Trout
I thought it was so he couldn't be recognized by his voice?
That's the way I understood it as well. It just could have been executed better. Like how they did it in Batman: the animated series.

And don't forget the scene where he's talking to Lucius Fox in the room with all the monitors. He didn't need to use the voice or even be in the outfit.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
kingofsnake at 7:52AM, July 28, 2008
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DJAB
Batman's voice was annoying, I think, because he used it even when he didn't need to.

Jesus, maybe he's just into the batman persona whenever he has the costume on.

If you guys wanna suspend your disbelief for like two seconds that could be cool. This is a movie after all. I found the “batman” voice a whole lot less annoying than apparently everyone else who's seen the movie.

Christian Bale could try all day, he's never gonna have Kevin Conroy's voice.

For a movie as well written, acted and produced as this one, the “I don't like the batman voice” is such a silly complaint. It's like watching Ghostbusters and being like “I didn't like Bill Murray's hair.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
SpANG at 9:12AM, July 28, 2008
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kingofsnake
DJAB
Batman's voice was annoying, I think, because he used it even when he didn't need to.

Jesus, maybe he's just into the batman persona whenever he has the costume on.

If you guys wanna suspend your disbelief for like two seconds that could be cool. This is a movie after all. I found the “batman” voice a whole lot less annoying than apparently everyone else who's seen the movie.

Christian Bale could try all day, he's never gonna have Kevin Conroy's voice.

For a movie as well written, acted and produced as this one, the “I don't like the batman voice” is such a silly complaint. It's like watching Ghostbusters and being like “I didn't like Bill Murray's hair.”
It's annoying. It grated on me. Since so many people had a problem with it, doesn't it prove it was distracting? It lessened my movie experience. Just because YOU had no problem with it doesn't make the complaint from others any less valid. Deal with it.

And I have yet to read anyone saying they didn't like the movie. It just wasn't perfect, despite what some gushing fanboys say.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:53PM
Hawk at 2:01PM, July 28, 2008
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I can only remember one moment in the movie where the voice bothered me. I can't remember exactly when, but I think it was supposed to be a serious and somber moment and I wondered why Batman would go out of his way to make the voice at the time. It didn't even come close to ruining the movie for me… I think it's my favorite movie this year, edging out Wall-E.

People like to complain, and when a movie is this good, all that's left to complain about is little petty things.

Hey, here's a question for some of you: What do you think they can do with the next movie?

I kind of feel like they have very little they can do with Joker. For one thing, I think people will be upset with whoever replaces Ledger. I'm sure there are a dozen options for a decent new Joker, but you know people will pitch a fit. Also, what detestable thing can Joker do in a sequel that he didn't do in this movie? Can the Joker even top himself?

Another issue is the other villains they could use. This new set of Batman movies stays fairly grounded in reality, and outlandish villains like Clayface, Mr. Freeze, and the ManBat would not fit in. Poison Ivy and her sentient plants are too far out there as well. I guess Riddler or Penguin might do, but neither of them were very compelling villains.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
skoolmunkee at 2:51PM, July 28, 2008
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Well, we don't know for sure whether Dent is dead or not. But he wouldn't be enough villain for a whole movie.

I'd disagree with some of the villains being too far out there. We are talking about movies about a superrich orphan who dresses up like a bat and uses high technology to beat up bad guys. They'd take a little reworking I think but they're not un-do-able.

I'd guess Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Riddler, or possibly Mr Freeze. They did just have a catwoman movie, and Mr Freeze and Ivy were already in batman movies… but so was the Joker and Two-Face. However I think they're going to try and get more women into the next movie. The last two have been devoid of meaninful females and I think they're going to want to stick one in there if only for sex appeal. I'd like to hope these new batman movies are smarter than that, though.

Batman's sort of on the run at the end of this movie, but I don't really see how that's too different to how he was before… except the police can't call him. Maybe they'll want to do a movie with more mundane villains, but I doubt it…


As for the awful Batman Voice:

It was distracting sometimes, but Batman is usually a silent kinda guy. It was weird when he was using it out of costume, but that only happened when he was feeling particularly Batman-y. I think he might have used it that way to illustrate that his identity is confused and the Batman role feels more natural to him than the Wayne one. More like he'd forgotten to talk in his normal voice, than that he had a reason for using the Batman one.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:41PM
kingofsnake at 3:36PM, July 28, 2008
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I read somewhere that Nolan wants to use villains that haven't been in the movies yet, which is pretty limiting with the more realistic movie setting. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the villains form the comics that never really got much exposure elsewhere. Like Hush, or the Terrible Trio, myabe Ra's Al Guhl's daughter. i think, could both work pretty well. Firefly or Roxy Rocket wouldn't be bad for like a villain in the first fifteen minutes or something. I'd like to see more Scarecrow too. I like the idea that he's more of a lowlife than a mastermind.

I think they'll bring bullock in to help hunt batman, but then he'll be clear by the end of it, and bullock will always still hate him. And they're going to have to have the joker for a little of it. The Joker'll know Two-face killed those people not batman, and he's going to want to try to expose the lie. But if they recast the role they're going to downplay it, like scarecrow was in this movie.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM

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