Debate and Discussion

The importance of an ARMED population.
statikpunk at 7:45PM, Sept. 28, 2008
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Ronson
Now, I don't want to debate the minutae of the welfare system. I agree there are problems. But there would be consequences if you were to just remove the system. It seems to me that if we were a responsible and rational country there could be a system put in place that does encourage entering the work force and discourage generational welfare families. Even still, the abuse to the welfare system is nothing compared to the people receiving corporate welfare on the opposite side of the economic spectrum. Neither is right though.

I agree I don't think abolishing the welfare system is the answer, some people really do need it. then again many dont. and many feel that they are entitled to those services. That is my major issue with all that we have been talking about. its what parents are teaching their kids, whether its government handouts and the “entitlement mentality” or its the demonization of firearms, by governments that want an easier to control populace. the fact of the matter is that our “morals” or whatever you want to call it, is deteriorating and all I see as the politicians way of handling it is band-aids. its just one band-aid after the other right untill we are in the poor house. My problem is that they never want to fix the problem they just want you to feel better about it i.e. “my fellow Americans we know that crime rate is high so we are going to put a ban on hand guns. so now you at least, will be less likely to get shot when your getting robbed!” or "my fellow Americans we know that money is tight and food is scarce, so instead of letting you keep just a little bit more of your money we are going to take just a little bit more from you, and then WE will feed you so you will not have to worry about it!" now I realize that I'm over exaggerating the situation to make a point but, that is truly how I feel every time I hear of a new program or an new ban on anything

The rich do use more government services than the poor. This government especially has been corrupted to the rich get much more access to the government than the poor.

But more than that, a hardworking person who earns $15,000 per year will suffer much more with a 15% tax than a millionaire will.

I still don't know where you are coming from with this stuff, what programs help the rich?? votes are by and large middle and lower class. thus programs are geared towards them. If you make them dependent on you for their quality of life then they will always vote for you for fear of losing that.
you are right, to instill a flat tax right now would be a detriment to the poor who often pay very little taxes and a benefit to the rich who often pay large amounts. yet it is the only fair way! 15% is 15% that's it. with a flat tax even the lowest earner is helping our country, and it would eliminate many of the loopholes the extremely wealthy use to get out of paying taxes. I say flat tax with a 50% tax credit for non profits. meaning you could either pay your taxes to the government and let them apportion it for you or you could take 50% of your taxes and give it to the non profit of your choice, with this system the “people” would decide what social programs are most important for their communities and not the government. instilling a sense of responsibility for your own community while still allowing for plenty of money for public works. And in the long term the benefit would be even greater because then the people would be voting on who is best for the country, and not who is going to make my life more comfortable.
“Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far.”
Theodore Roosevelt.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:57PM
statikpunk at 7:56PM, Sept. 28, 2008
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kyupol
Police May Stop Responding To Some Crimes

Yep. So how can you expect to protect yourself? lol!

your dead on there. It is foolish to expect a dwindling, underpaid, underfunded police force to be able to act on every single criminal element. I'm not advocating vigilantism but if a criminal has something to fear besides the police they may think twice before stealing from that open garage.
“Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far.”
Theodore Roosevelt.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:57PM
ozoneocean at 5:30AM, Nov. 2, 2008
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Hahah, time to revive this idiotic thread. This is an interesting news story. This guy, who had an assault rifle at home for protection saw some trick or treaters come to his house with masks on. He feared robbery and shot through the door, slaughtering on of them and wounding the rest.

This lovely guy, with his lovely multiple drug offence convictions was just trying to protect his widdle bitty self… Just like that idiot people talked about in another story who shot those two African American dudes who were near his neighbour's house.

And I read another great story about a guy who took his 8 year old son to an open day at a gun expo. All legal shooting they said, with experts… They let the little child shoot a pumpkin with an uzi. He died with a shot to the brain when he couldn't handle the recoil… He'd been trained how to shoot pistols and rifles before so his dad thought he'd be jussssst fine. :)

If you're worried about protection, stay away from places where they let stupid people easily get guns. Or travel around in a tank. ;)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
NickGuy at 7:46AM, Nov. 2, 2008
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kyupol
-Ozone edit-
We don't start debate posts with videos, but I moved this to this forum because it turned into a debate. :)





what a great fucking video. she shouldve shot him in the face. as a father, when my daughter turns 21 im giving her a gat and telling her to fuck up anyone that tries to mess with her.

i didnt read any other posts int his thread, just wanted to comment on that.

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
“Kung Fu Komix is…so awesome” -threeeyeswurm
“Kung Fu Komix is..told with all the stupid exuberance of the genre it parodies” -The Real Macabre
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
NickGuy at 7:48AM, Nov. 2, 2008
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ozoneocean
Hahah, time to revive this idiotic thread. This is an interesting news story. This guy, who had an assault rifle at home for protection saw some trick or treaters come to his house with masks on. He feared robbery and shot through the door, slaughtering on of them and wounding the rest.



And I read another great story about a guy who took his 8 year old son to an open day at a gun expo. All legal shooting they said, with experts… They let the little child shoot a pumpkin with an uzi. He died with a shot to the brain when he couldn't handle the recoil… He'd been trained how to shoot pistols and rifles before so his dad thought he'd be jussssst fine. :)


two of the greatest stories ive ever read. thank you.

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
“Kung Fu Komix is…so awesome” -threeeyeswurm
“Kung Fu Komix is..told with all the stupid exuberance of the genre it parodies” -The Real Macabre
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
Hawk at 11:02AM, Nov. 2, 2008
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You know the weirdest part of that story? The killer's girlfriend's last name is “Pee”. How does something like that happen?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
NickGuy at 3:28PM, Nov. 2, 2008
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Hawk
You know the weirdest part of that story? The killer's girlfriend's last name is “Pee”. How does something like that happen?

easy…when they were handing out last names, her ancestor had to go REAL BAD.

“Kung Fu Komix IS…hardcore martial art action all the way. 8/10” -Harkovast
“Kung Fu Komix is that rare comic that is made with heart and love of the medium, and it delivers” -Zenstrive
“Kung Fu Komix is…so awesome” -threeeyeswurm
“Kung Fu Komix is..told with all the stupid exuberance of the genre it parodies” -The Real Macabre
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
PIT_FACE at 4:53PM, Nov. 5, 2008
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maby if the general populace was SANE and HAPPY i would say this was allright, but that isnt the case.

there's people i can think of and i'm sure you can think of some too, who cant be trusted with a gun. there's even been times in my life where i would have been unfit to carry a deadly weapon.

IF i was in that situation and had the chance to use a gun, i would. there's also a good chance that one of my nephews who i love DEARLY would accidently blow his face off and i think i'd RATHER be attacked.

i guess instead i'll just have to rely on macing the fucker in his eyes and casterating him.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:44PM
Faliat at 2:56PM, Nov. 6, 2008
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I personally think that the possibility of other people having guns around you and you don't know which ones is enough to put someone off trying something.

Mind you, there's a lot of people over where I live that flash blades, legal or illegal, to threaten people into doing what they want.

But running into a bank trying to hold it up would be damn hard if at least one hostage is TRAINED enough to take you out. Hell. Maybe that kinda incident would've prevented some guys stealing a jeep and ram-raiding a local bank where I live a few years ago.

It's not the guns that's the problem. It's the people using them. Someone trained and very strict with gun safety is less likely to have accidents. Because they know the kinda of thing you SHOULD NEVER DO with a gun.

Doesn't help that a lot of films and TV series don't show proper gun care being enforced. Exceptions I know of are Tremors and that one episode of the Simpsons where Homer gets a gun and the Springfeild NRA flips out over Homer's various incredibly dangerous uses of his gun. And that is a slight parody even.
There may be a few others I forgot, but those are the only ones I can remember so far.

Call that jumped up metal rod a knife?
Watch mine go straight through a kevlar table, and if it dunt do the same to a certain gaixan's skull in my immediate vicinity after, I GET A F*****G REFUND! BUKKO, AH?!

- Rekkiy (NerveWire)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:25PM
harkovast at 5:21AM, Nov. 15, 2008
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The answer is obvious-
Give everyone guns but then just turn off the friendly fire mode on the option screen.
Then you can shoot everyone and only the bad guys will die.
It is also a good way to identify who is the bad guy.
What do you mean I've been playing coutner strike too long?

America has guns easily availiable- america has a higher murder rate.
If you own a gun you are more likely to accidently kill a member of your own family, or yourself, then to actually foil a crime or shoot a criminal with it.
But I dont live in America so blaze away my gun loving american brothers! Go campaign to get rocket launchers! Then if the criminal has a Sherman tank you will be ready for him!

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
Vakanai at 11:50PM, Nov. 15, 2008
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I might as well throw my opinion in. I'm for more regular people having guns.
People have a right to defend themselves by any means necessary. Criminals will always find a gun, they're experts at getting a hold of the damned things. I say level the playing field a bit. Crime might actually go down for once if some muggers figure out that that little old granny is packing heat.
There should be more gun safety information and classes though too. If people are going to have guns, they should know how to shoot the bad guy and not some innocent bystander.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
ozoneocean at 2:10AM, Nov. 16, 2008
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Vakanai
Criminals will always find a gun, they're experts at getting a hold of the damned things.
The major flaw in all these arguments.
lol!
-Magic gun making pixies… when will they learn NOT to sell their guns to criminals?
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
isukun at 12:37PM, Nov. 17, 2008
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Crime might actually go down for once if some muggers figure out that that little old granny is packing heat.

Because the solution to all our problems is to give the senile old codgers who can't even be trusted with a car a deadly weapon.

The problem with giving everybody a gun is that in cities where there are a lot of guns, crime is often more rampant. By the logic posted here, you would think in a city where “anybody could be packing,” criminals would be thinking twice, not becoming more bold. In Savannah, I see people with guns all the time. I know people who I work with who have guns. I couldn't make the same claim before I moved out here. Still, we have an overloaded maximum security prison and a murder rate higher than LA. Crime is pretty rampant here. Most of my friends who live downtown either have been or know someone who has been robbed. Muggings and rape are pretty common downtown. Somehow having more relaxed gun laws (you can carry a concealed weapons just about anywhere around here) and having more guns in citizens hands doesn't seem to be deterring anything around here.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
bravo1102 at 4:46PM, Nov. 17, 2008
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ozoneocean
Vakanai
Criminals will always find a gun, they're experts at getting a hold of the damned things.
The major flaw in all these arguments.
lol!
-Magic gun making pixies… when will they learn NOT to sell their guns to criminals?

Because their Good/Evil switch is set to Evil. Make something illegal and you just increased its street value by a factor of at least 10, but you can still get it.

I wonder how it would be if it was a completely literal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment as defined by the Supreme Court that it applies to a weapon that can be carried by a universal militia? Imagine if everyone was only allowed to carry around an M16. In 1789 all adult males had to have that musket in their home. Let's go with the exact modern alternative. lol! Issue everyone an M16.

Better yet make every gun except single shot black powder pistols and longarms illegal and make dueling legal and allow everyone to carry swords and daggers. It worked then didn't it? ;)

last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
ozoneocean at 7:04PM, Nov. 17, 2008
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I want to carry around my own sword :(
AND a brace of pistols!
And not any pussy katana either- a nice sabre or rapier thanks very much.


Yep. That will bring crime levels down. …If only we can stop those criminals conjuring their illegal blades. Dammit! >_<
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Vakanai at 6:52AM, Nov. 18, 2008
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ozoneocean
The major flaw in all these arguments.
lol!
-Magic gun making pixies… when will they learn NOT to sell their guns to criminals?
Never. I blame lack of background checks. If someone has a record, don't give them guns. In fact call the cops and alert them the crazy guy is trying to get a gun.
isukun
Because the solution to all our problems is to give the senile old codgers who can't even be trusted with a car a deadly weapon.
Not the senile ones, obviously. There should be a special test or class for gun handling. If you can't pass it, you really shouldn't have a gun.
isukun
The problem with giving everybody a gun is that in cities where there are a lot of guns, crime is often more rampant. By the logic posted here, you would think in a city where “anybody could be packing,” criminals would be thinking twice, not becoming more bold. In Savannah, I see people with guns all the time. I know people who I work with who have guns. I couldn't make the same claim before I moved out here. Still, we have an overloaded maximum security prison and a murder rate higher than LA. Crime is pretty rampant here. Most of my friends who live downtown either have been or know someone who has been robbed. Muggings and rape are pretty common downtown. Somehow having more relaxed gun laws (you can carry a concealed weapons just about anywhere around here) and having more guns in citizens hands doesn't seem to be deterring anything around here.
Yeah, but usually the majority who actually have guns are the ones the ones who shouldn't have guns. Least from my understanding.
How many of the people in that area who have guns are not the loud, drinking, gun nut type?
If more regular people had guns, instead of all the people of a certain demographic, then maybe there would be more of a difference.
bravo1102
Because their Good/Evil switch is set to Evil. Make something illegal and you just increased its street value by a factor of at least 10, but you can still get it.

I wonder how it would be if it was a completely literal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment as defined by the Supreme Court that it applies to a weapon that can be carried by a universal militia? Imagine if everyone was only allowed to carry around an M16. In 1789 all adult males had to have that musket in their home. Let's go with the exact modern alternative. lol! Issue everyone an M16.

Better yet make every gun except single shot black powder pistols and longarms illegal and make dueling legal and allow everyone to carry swords and daggers. It worked then didn't it? ;)

Sadly, it did work then. Not well, but compared to our era of drive by shootings and gang warfare it worked rather well.
Sure, the Wild West bandits were bad, but not quite on the same level.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
isukun at 7:34AM, Nov. 18, 2008
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How many of the people in that area who have guns are not the loud, drinking, gun nut type?

Most of them. Despite being in Georgia, Savannah isn't really representative of Southern towns. It is surprisingly liberal with a lot of artists and college students. White trash and rednecks are a rarity around here. Most of your crime is coming from the same place it comes from up North, the poor and desperate living in the projects. Most of them get their guns illegally by stealing from people who own them legally. Then they use them to carjack people, rob people in the streets, or commit worse crimes.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM
Vakanai at 7:58AM, Nov. 18, 2008
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isukun
How many of the people in that area who have guns are not the loud, drinking, gun nut type?

Most of them. Despite being in Georgia, Savannah isn't really representative of Southern towns. It is surprisingly liberal with a lot of artists and college students. White trash and rednecks are a rarity around here. Most of your crime is coming from the same place it comes from up North, the poor and desperate living in the projects. Most of them get their guns illegally by stealing from people who own them legally. Then they use them to carjack people, rob people in the streets, or commit worse crimes.
Sad shame.
There should be more info on how to keep your place safe from break ins. And a better economy or something. It's not so much guns that are the problem as it is people getting desperate enough to think it is okay to use them.
I'm a big supporter of people having protection and all, but I'd never get a gun myself. More of the pacifist type.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
kyupol at 3:24PM, Nov. 19, 2008
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to come think of it, its a SLAVE who is unarmed.



NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
ozoneocean at 7:08PM, Nov. 19, 2008
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kyupol
to come think of it, its a SLAVE who is unarmed.
Come to think of it, very few people go through their daily lives armed for any purpose… Police, soldiers, hunters, security guards…?

I would say that every person within 4 square kilometres of me right now are unarmed and all going about their daily lives at work in perfect safety and as much happiness as a white collar worker ever feels during the working day. lol!

Probably 10 square kilometres… but then there's likely to be more police and security guards in that catchment.

The thing is; gun ownership isn't a thing here, most people couldn't care less about wanting to own a gun or carry one around with them. Or a knife either. For all the idiot “safety” and “protection” and “criminals” based arguments, it really just comes down to culture and nothing else.

-The right to gun ownership in the U.S. is like the right for women to wear the Burkha in Turkey: They WANT to be able to do it because of tradition etc. and they justify it in all sorts of ways, but a big sector of their society there and most of the government is against it. But it's cultural reasons that are behind them wanting to wear it, regardless of all the justifications.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
Naughtelos at 8:19PM, Nov. 20, 2008
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Ozoneocean
Come to think of it, very few people go through their daily lives armed for any purpose…

However, I am pro-small arms for civilians, I stop at semiautomatic weapons, though.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:09PM
kyupol at 9:54PM, Nov. 20, 2008
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Come to think of it, very few people go through their daily lives armed for any purpose…

You're right. I go to an office and work and a gun (or any armament) isn't needed for the job.

But what if you have these scenarios? Wouldn't a gun be nice?

1) A total breakdown of society. Doesnt matter how this will occur. Economic collapse (I read the news and its scarier than any horror film)? A hurricane katrina scenario? Whatever. The point is, you'd be having roving gangsters out on the street looking for trouble. How do you expect to protect your family and your property? “please mr. gangsta… don't hurt me. I don't think we need violence for this. You know, we can talk the civilized way mr. gangsta… please don't hurt me. I'd kiss your boots. Just dont hurt me ok.”

2) Similar scenario to the 1st one but this time its a MARTIAL LAW scenario where trucks with mercenaries are out in the street busy rounding up people and sending them to labour camps. You've heard news that the roidhead mercenary forces are coming to your town and they're not playing games. They're ruthless and will drag you, your wife, and your family into a truck and beat them and rape them on the way to the concentration camp. Choose: Die a slave or die a free man?


NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
ozoneocean at 12:26AM, Nov. 21, 2008
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Well in a fantasy disaster scenario, I will have my own army and they can use the weapons for me :)

In reality, those situations don't drop out of no where, there's warning and build up, and by that I don't mean vague read-between-the-lines type stuff, I mean it's OUT there and everyone can see it starting to happen. When life goes down that road; sure, get a gun if you can, move somewhere safe, run away. Whatever. That's what people usually do. History has proved the smart ones are the ones who get away fast, not the morons who stay and fight.

If you're facing an armed band, you're dead-meat on your own, unless you're dug in and you have a belt fed machine-gun, and even then they can take you out. You could run and hide, but guns won't do you that much good then unless chance presents itself… Or join an armed band yourself and go against others or terrorise people along with them.

Nooo, best to get away and use that gun for hunting.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:32PM
isukun at 9:42PM, Nov. 21, 2008
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)? A hurricane katrina scenario? Whatever. The point is, you'd be having roving gangsters out on the street looking for trouble.

That didn't really happen with hurricane Katrina. In fact, guns weren't really the most useful thing to have during the hurricane and its aftermath. Sure, people died, but generally a gun won't stop you from drowning.

Both of those situations really are pure fantasy. Most of your violent crime in this country isn't committed by a criminal underground, but by average citizens, primarily those from the lower classes. I just recently got an email about a school shooting out here in Savannah. The situation occurred when two students at the local community college got into a fight and one pulled out a gun and shot the other one. Even if everybody there had been armed, there would have been no way to avoid the injury that occurred. While the shooter was definitely in the wrong, he wasn't some psycho or “gangsta”, just an average Joe with an anger management problem.

As or your second scenario, it's completely ridiculous. We would need to be invaded for such a situation to even occur. While our politicians aren't always the honest bunch, our military is made up of citizens. These people live in the US and have friends and family here. They aren't going to be pillaging and raping people from their home towns, even the very notion is ludicrous. The military isn't a separate class in the US, there is no social divide between them and those of us who aren't in the military. Besides, like ozoneocean said, if either of these groups went up against a lone armed civilian, the civilian wouldn't stand much of a chance, so arming every citizen in the off chance that one of these completely unrealistic scenarios might happen really doesn't make any sense.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:04PM

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