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The Princess and the Frog: your predictions
lastcall at 4:59PM, May 26, 2009
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Looks like Disney is trying to bring back 2D feature animation, which I am thrilled about. However, I fear it may become a Home on the Range repeat (i.e. sucky).

What are your predictions? Is this the return of 2D feature animation, or is 3D here to stay?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:28PM
lefarce at 6:51PM, May 26, 2009
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Anything at this point is better than another 3D movie. I'll settle for literally anything 2D at this point.

Stick figure sex on the big screen? Settle for that above 3D.

A giant turd that goes on poorly animated misadventures? Take that before 3D. Actually I would take that before a lot of things, that's an awesome idea.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:33PM
Bekefel at 8:09PM, May 26, 2009
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Well at least the plot isn't a bunch of animals going on a “crazy” adventure.
Please, please, you give me too little credit.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:20AM
lba at 8:10PM, May 26, 2009
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I'm pretty much with ‘farce on this one. I’m tired of feel-good 3D movies with the same sort of plot adapted to new characters. The 3D thing used to be interesting, but once I saw a few of them, they just all started to look and sound alike.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:29PM
korosu at 8:26PM, May 26, 2009
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I was a bit apprehensive about this when the first teaser came out, but after seeing this trailer I think it'll be alright. The main thing I'm disappointed with right now is that they have Randy-frickin'-Newman doing the soundtrack. Why in the name of all things good and true don't they give this movie a jazz soundtrack…when it takes place in 1920s New Orleans?! *le sigh*
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:21PM
Skullbie at 8:46PM, May 26, 2009
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I like the twist to it that the princess is the one that turns into a frog. I'm sure there will be a bunch of outrage over it ‘we hav our first black princess and u turn her into a frog for duh movie!!’ etc.

It looks gorgeous animation wise, Disneys 3D attempts have just been terrible so far, not because of animation quality but because of depthless plots and main characters with the charm of a pap smear.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
Chernobog at 9:41PM, May 26, 2009
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I suppose box office results will determine if the ‘retro’ quality of 2D is worth it. I, for one, miss and prefer 2D. Might be a matter of softer textures or things being rendered conventionally better on average, not sure. 3D cartooning… eh, feels like a lot of sameness. Graphical style doesn't come through as easily. That said, sometimes 3D can be nicely spliced in for sweeping cinematic backgrounds and the like, I just don't want the whole thing that way.
 
 
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:41AM
Hawk at 10:02PM, May 26, 2009
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2D/3D doesn't matter, it's all superficial. It's about the story and how good the writing is. I'd take one of Pixar's gems over Atlantis or Home On The Range any day.

People are looking back at 2D animation with rose-tinted glasses. Don't tell me Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Beauty and the Beast didn't have a certain “sameness”. I loved them all, but there really was a concrete style that spanned production studios. It was a rare treat when something like Prince of Egypt or Lilo and Stitch ventured away from the profitable norm.

So while you're letting box-office excrement like Open Season and Hoodwinked stain your idea of quality animation, remember that hand-drawn art didn't make Home on the Range a masterpiece, nor any of the flops toward the end of Don Bluth's career.

As far as Princess and the Frog goes, we can hope for something good because Pixar's influece has worked its way into the rest of Disney's animation studios (It's actually Pixar pushing to bring 2D back).
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Disgruntledrm at 10:24PM, May 26, 2009
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It's awesome that they're doing a 2D movie, but I'm more excited over the fact that it's a princess film…they seem to have abandoned that altogether for talking animals…
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:12PM
lefarce at 10:29PM, May 26, 2009
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I dont get the controversy over the movie, at least the tidbits I've been hearing. Like in no way does it make sense or click in my head. It's like some bizzare alien language. Like I'm traveling through a wormhole whenever I hear about it.

But at this point I will still take ANYTHING over this 3D crap. Pixar makes a movie about bugs? Dreamworks makes a movie about bugs. Pixar does one about fish? Dreamworks does one about fish.

It's like “oh what is going to be the general theme of 3D movies this year?” and I'm sick of it. It's hilarious in a really sick way, that what should be the most innovative technology in animation is used to make the most generic crap ever.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:33PM
ozoneocean at 12:47AM, May 27, 2009
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Wow, I'm with Hawk here- what's the difference? -_-
People's scope must be pretty limited if 2d animation like this is something of a relief. So good stuff from France and Japan is irrelevant then?

What I'd really love to see is a TF2 movie. That would motherf*in' ROCK!
And it had BETTER be in 3d. :gem:
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
BffSatan at 1:22AM, May 27, 2009
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I'm glad western traditional animation isn't dead. 3D animation lacks beauty.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:21AM
ozoneocean at 1:59AM, May 27, 2009
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Meh, it's all the same. Just different techniques. 3D animation is a myth really, it's just as 2D as the rest. All you're doing is using a different technique, you STILL produce 2D scenes. Stop motion is more 3D,

Also, “traditional 2D animation” is a myth. No one works the way they first started to in the 1900's, all that stuff is aided by computer tools, and even when it's not it's still a far cry from the early techniques they used to use. The whole distinction is really just superficial nonsense.

In the end it comes down to a look, the look of the final product. And that look seems to be the a retro Disney style from the late 80's, early 90's. That suddenly represents ‘traditional 2D animation“ eh?
Well you can actually get exactly that look using 3D tools if you want, it’s not that complicated.

It's funny that a lot of that ”2D“ stuff actually uses rather obvious 3D elements at times anyway, people just don't notice it.
—–

And BTW, as far as ”look“ goes, a lot of the ”3D" stuff does tend to have a look that gets a bit on your tits after a while. It's not the fault of the method though, it's just how they chose to make it appear.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
Product Placement at 3:53AM, May 27, 2009
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Looks like a fun cartoon. My one question though is why is there a princess in New Orleans? There's a royal family there that I didn't know about?
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
mlai at 4:02AM, May 27, 2009
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Yeah, I'm told that Pixar reuses its models (or at least their designs) for all its films, hence the “sameness” of all the movies in look/feel.

Anyways, what exactly is this girl a “princess” of? Princess of… Louisiana? I've nothing against black princesses… but… there's no such thing in history as a Western-dressed black princess.

As for the frog prince… well I guess he's a prince from Mexico or something. That I can understand.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
ozoneocean at 4:04AM, May 27, 2009
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Product Placement
Looks like a fun cartoon. My one question though is why is there a princess in New Orleans? There's a royal family there that I didn't know about?
Possible. A lot of different people were taken as slaves…

Aaaaand, royalty did visit all over America. they still do ;)
-from all nations.

Not to mention those that slept around…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
mlai at 4:20AM, May 27, 2009
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Dude you're talking out of your a$$, LOL.

1. If she's a slave from Africa, then how could she still walk around as a princess?
2. If she's a visiting royal, then why is she black? And if she's a visiting royal from Africa, then why is she dressed like a European princess? (No don't tell me she's trying on new clothes.)
3. If she is from Africa or something, then why is she speaking with a Black-American accent rather than an African accent?
4. If she's a mixed-blood foreign royal descendant… for example, the daughter of a French noble and an African royal… again, why is she speaking with a Black-American accent?

In stories, I just don't like mandated political correctness which breaks suspension of disbelief. It's as bad as discrimination that breaks suspension of disbelief (see Avatar movie thread). They can do the “black princess” thing, but this is a story that simply should not have taken place in the USA.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
ozoneocean at 4:40AM, May 27, 2009
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1. No slaves. in the 1920's man. Not officially. She could easily be descended from a chief, have a slave past, but at the time movie thing takes place maybe she's just a wealthy socialite. There were wealthy black people even back in the 1920's.

2 and 3. In the 1920's there were indeed black royalty from Africa who dressed in European clothes. Africa had been colonised for centuries, European fashion did make its way there. ;)
As for the accent, well, if this scenario was the case, maybe she was a minor royal and she grew up in the US for a time. That sort of thing did happen. -In the 1800's at least there were a lot of the upper-classes from many “non-white” countries all over Europe at least, why not the US in the 20th century? :)

4. She doesn't have to be royal on both sides to be a princess. But that doesn't mater, regardless of what parent was what it doesn't prevent her growing up in America.

————–
Look man, I know where you're coming from, and I personally SERIOUSLY doubt ANY of my scenarios are what happened in the film. But none of it is unlikely. The history of the world and America especially is a lot less clean, simple, and Black and white (lol), than people like to think.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:34PM
korosu at 5:16AM, May 27, 2009
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ozoneocean
People's scope must be pretty limited if 2d animation like this is something of a relief. So good stuff from France and Japan is irrelevant then?
I think that's just it – 2D animation in other countries like Japan is still going strong, but in America every animated movie to have come out in the last few years are in 3D. Don't get me wrong, I have no qualms with 3D animation…but why does it mean that 2D animation has to go by the wayside? Can't we have both? I almost feel that the fate of 2D animated movies in America rests on the success of The Princess and the Frog. If it does well in theaters, then there's a chance of seeing more of them in the future.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:21PM
Hawk at 7:58AM, May 27, 2009
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2D animation died out because you guys all stopped going to watch it. It doesn't help that the movies were starting to stink, but it's all about the economics of it. Everyone started flocking to 3D films for the superficial reason that they were 3D. And now people are just doing the same thing in reverse, getting excited over something just because it was hand-drawn.

You'll be doing the animation industry a favor if you go to see movies because they're good, not because of what techniques they were made with.

And Ozone, I'd probably watch a TF2 animated feature over and over again. That's an excellent idea!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
Skullbie at 10:58AM, May 27, 2009
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I'm kind've thinking the reason disney didn't have a black main character or even significant black roles in its movies is not because of racism but they knew people like mlai would be tailing them with 20 questions for it. Hell i don't remember any other disney movie that got this much debate and questioning since the whole lion king/Kimba thing and Frog Princess hasn't even come out yet. But i really believe Disney's intentions with this movie are good. The princesses are a franchise and it's high time time we had a black one.

But then again no one has even seen the movie yet, maybe it is a layered up cheapshot at black stereotypes ready to be imposed upon our children, or maybe it's a cute movie about a beautiful princess who has to deal with being a hideous frog and balance out the forces of good voodoo and bad.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:47PM
lefarce at 11:38AM, May 27, 2009
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Skullbie
I'm kind've thinking the reason disney didn't have a black main character or even significant black roles in its movies is not because of racism but they knew people like mlai would be tailing them with 20 questions for it. Hell i don't remember any other disney movie that got this much debate and questioning since the whole lion king/Kimba thing and Frog Princess hasn't even come out yet. But i really believe Disney's intentions with this movie are good. The princesses are a franchise and it's high time time we had a black one.

But then again no one has even seen the movie yet, maybe it is a layered up cheapshot at black stereotypes ready to be imposed upon our children, or maybe it's a cute movie about a beautiful princess who has to deal with being a hideous frog and balance out the forces of good voodoo and bad.



Wikipedia
Even early in the film's production, there was concern that the material would encounter controversy. As the writing of the screenplay was getting under way, Disney publicist Vern Caldwell wrote to producer Perce Pearce that “The negro situation is a dangerous one. Between the negro haters and the negro lovers there are many chances to run afoul of situations that could run the gamut all the way from the nasty to the controversial.”

When the film was first released, the NAACP acknowledged “the remarkable artistic merit” of the film, but decried the supposed “impression it gives of an idyllic master-slave relationship” (even though the film was set after the American Civil War). Online humor site Cracked ranked Uncle Remus #2 in their “The 9 Most Racist Disney Characters” list, noting that the lesson learned from the film is that “The late 1800s were a great time to be African-American.”

The thing is, they tried. They just might not have handled it in the most graceful of ways. It's partly why this movie is getting so much shit, I think. It's a bit embarassing though, everyone who is at least half way in their right mind can agree that the controversy is just silly at this point.

EDIT: God damn typos.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:33PM
Product Placement at 1:48PM, May 27, 2009
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korosu
I think that's just it – 2D animation in other countries like Japan is still going strong, but in America every animated movie to have come out in the last few years are in 3D. Don't get me wrong, I have no qualms with 3D animation…but why does it mean that 2D animation has to go by the wayside? Can't we have both? I almost feel that the fate of 2D animated movies in America rests on the success of The Princess and the Frog. If it does well in theaters, then there's a chance of seeing more of them in the future.
A question: Thanks to modern graphics advancements, isn't it easier now to make cartoons in 3D rather then 2D?

Now, I know nothing about how the progress of making 3D cartoons is like short of what I've seen from 5 minute long “making off” documentaries. I was under the impression that once they finished creating all their models and “sets”, they could simply move the characters around and record it. If something doesn't look right or good, they just edit what they've already got.

Sounds at least more simple the redrawing the character over and over again, every time he takes a step.
Skullbie
Maybe it's a cute movie about a beautiful princess who has to deal with being a hideous frog and balance out the forces of good voodoo and bad.
For a frog she wasn't that bad looking. She had very pretty eyes.

…. I'm gonna go wash my brain now.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
lefarce at 1:55PM, May 27, 2009
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For a frog she wasn't that bad looking. She had very pretty eyes.

…. I'm gonna go wash my brain now.

Once the Rule34 on that comes out, God know I'll be there with a vat of Jergen's and a box of tissues.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:33PM
Hakoshen at 2:24PM, May 27, 2009
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lefarce
Someone
For a frog she wasn't that bad looking. She had very pretty eyes.

…. I'm gonna go wash my brain now.

Once the Rule34 on that comes out, God know I'll be there with a vat of Jergen's and a box of tissues.

“LOL” can't convey how hard I laughed when I read that.

However, I'm interested to learn this girl's story too. I mean, seriously. But then again, when has Disney NOT taken severe artistic license with their films?

As for the whole 2D vs 3D discussion, I'm not biased either way. I like CGI polygonal movies as much as traditional “outline” 2D animation. It all depends on the plot and what kind of action they're trying to portray.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:41PM
Product Placement at 2:40PM, May 27, 2009
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Hakoshen
But then again, when has Disney NOT taken severe artistic license with their films?
I do hate it when they take that artistic license of their too far.

It's very disturbing to watch their version of Pocahontas, knowing that in reality John Smith was around 30 while Pocahontas was only 12.

Try to make a rule 34 version of that and see if you're not arrested.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
lefarce at 2:45PM, May 27, 2009
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in reality John Smith was around 30 while Pocahontas was only 12.

My penis is not amused.

 
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:33PM
Product Placement at 3:14PM, May 27, 2009
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There never was anything romantic going on between them if that makes you feel any better.

Still. It's very hard for me to watch that cartoon and not think….. ewww.
Those were my two cents.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM
korosu at 3:42PM, May 27, 2009
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Product Placement
isn't it easier now to make cartoons in 3D rather then 2D.
Well, it's definitely not “cheap”, but as compared to traditional cel animation, it's definitely less expensive. Of course, these days, I'm pretty sure that most of 2D animations are done digitally as well, to some degree. (But correct me if I'm wrong.)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:21PM
Product Placement at 4:12PM, May 27, 2009
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korosu
Product Placement
isn't it easier now to make cartoons in 3D rather then 2D?
Well, it's definitely not “cheap”, but as compared to traditional cel animation, it's definitely less expensive. Of course, these days, I'm pretty sure that most of 2D animations are done digitally as well, to some degree. (But correct me if I'm wrong.)
Cell animation or digital, they still have to draw out every movement that their characters make.

While it's considerably harder to make a proper 3D model of a character, the work is done as soon as he's ready. After that they can just set him up to do the movements and poses that they want him to portray.

That is at least my theory. If someone around has a better idea how 3D animation works, please correct me.
Those were my two cents.
If you have any other questions, please deposit a quarter.
This space for rent.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:50PM

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