Debate and Discussion

The Stem Cell debate
subcultured at 11:38PM, June 20, 2007
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I think there is more to learn with opening up research on stem cells. For some reason the government don't want anything to do with it because it's “immoral”.

Opponents of embryonic stem cell research, which often uses embryos discarded by fertility clinics, want it to be severely restricted or banned outright as inhumane.

Don't these embryos get burnt and put the dump anyway? This might be in bad taste, but it's better to recycle these than to just junk it.

As Congress considered legislation to allow broader use of embryonic stem cells, members were swamped with calls from people suffering from diseases for which stem cells research might be the only hope, and from equally vehement opponents. In 2006, the Republican-controlled Congress passed a bill to expand research. In response, Mr. Bush issued the first veto of his presidency. In 2007, Congress, now in Democratic hands, passed a similar bill by a larger margin, but still not by enough to override the veto that Mr. Bush announced on June 20

If it helps save lives then I think it should be done. It's about balancing out the positive and the negative aspects of it. Dead embryos are already dead, but dying patients can at least have some chances of living.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
StaceyMontgomery at 3:07AM, June 21, 2007
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Modern fertility clinics create - and then dispose of - a lot of these embryos. The “No Stem cell” side of the debate doesnt seem to be calling for the close of these clinics, however. I find their position illogical at best, and probably just openly dishonest.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Nicotine at 5:31AM, June 21, 2007
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I support stem cell research. Why not do something that will help people? And these embryos are not “people”. They cannot breath, eat, or do much of anything else outside of the womb. If scientists make a break through using these stem cells and find a way to, say, alliviate cancer somehow, I bet these anti-stem cell people would want in on it as well.

Stem cells and animals should be avaliable to test and find new drugs. People have problems with stem cells, but nobody really cared/heard when this happened: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6768799.stm
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
kingofsnake at 6:06AM, June 21, 2007
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Hopefully this will be a non-issue in a few years
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:16PM
lothar at 8:49AM, June 21, 2007
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i find the whole debate about the “morality ” of this to be a Joke, when a lot of the same people have no qualms about bombing foreigners !!!
it's just a blob of cells that could possibly save lives ! wtf?
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:45PM
SnigePippi at 2:11PM, June 21, 2007
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I just dont understand what those people has against stem-cell research! It's a morula we use! At cluster of about 10 cells.
A morula can't survive outside of a womb. It can't even process to be a human form outside a womb! Ergo, its not a human.

It's not imoral to use dying cells.
To hinder humanity to get knowlegde of how we work and get the capability to form body tissues is imoral!
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:49PM
maritalbliss at 9:32PM, June 21, 2007
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Until a populace can separate science from religion, I fear this won't be resolved. Pro-Lifer's still occassionally BOMB clinics, yet we can't use legally sucked out trash? Don't make much sense ta' me. But, what do I know, I'm just a woman. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:53PM
subcultured at 10:51PM, June 21, 2007
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kill the live people and save the dead cells.

great logic there, fanatics!

we need to further the research for people like him


i heard a joke one time that if we infect cancer and aids to all the billionaires and millionaires in the world, then we will get the cure for them in a week.


“president believe murder is wrong” hahah dude! WTF are we doing in iraq…people get killed in wars. maybe the pres thinks that murder for the good of people might be right…therefore people getting killed for the greater good is okay.

so therefore by logic murdering embryos to cure millions of people and curing disease should be passed.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
subcultured at 11:07PM, June 21, 2007
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this gets me excited more than putting democracy in iraq.

Retired New Jersey firefighter is reporting decreased insulin doses and lower blood glucose levels within one month after his adult stem cell treatment for diabetes (type 2), diabetes induced erectile dysfunction and peripheral artery disease in Cologne, Germany.

Cologne, Germany (PRWEB) June 19, 2007 – Retired Fire Captain, Calvin Miller of Union City, New Jersey is reporting decreased insulin doses and lower blood glucose levels within one month after his adult stem cell treatment for diabetes (type 2) , diabetes induced erectile dysfunction and peripheral artery disease in Cologne, Germany.

Mr. Miller was recently treated at the XCell-Center using adult stem cells derived from a small amount of his own bone marrow. The stem cells were introduced directly into his pancreas using a minimally invasive catheter procedure via the right femoral artery. To battle the common diabetes complications of peripheral artery disease and erectile dysfunction, stem cells were also introduced into his thighs and calves, and into the arteries that supply the penis, respectively.

“Before scuba diving this past Sunday morning, I injected only 32% of my normal insulin dose. During the day, I ate normally - for a diabetic - without injecting any more insulin. That evening, I measured my blood sugar and I was astounded that it was only 126. A month ago, even with my full insulin doses, I never had readings below 170,” said Miller.

These are the third, fourth and fifth diseases in two years for which Mr. Miller has chosen to undergo stem cell therapy. After being treated with stem cells for coronary artery disease in January 2005, he was featured in BusinessWeek Magazine (June 2005) . In September 2005, he was treated for ischemic cardiomyopathy using minimally invasive surgery.

“Actually, what really got my attention this past weekend was that I also felt a regeneration of heart function�and that was after a 3 km swim,” Miller added with a grin.

About the XCell-Center
The XCell-Center is the first privately-owned center in Europe to specialize in regenerative medicine using autologous adult stem cell therapy. Newly completed in 2006, the XCell-Center features the latest medical equipment and technology. The XCell-Center is a fully licensed clinic with German specialized physicians working in accordance with German law and European guidelines. It is located on the second floor wing of the Eduardus Hospital in Cologne, Germany.

The XCell-Center currently treats Diabetes and its complications (Erectile Dysfunction and Peripheral Artery Disease), Stroke, Spinal Cord Injuries, Ischemic Heart Disease and degenerative diseases such as Multiple Sclerosis, Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

Before the end of this year, the XCell-Center will publish clinical data coming from their SCIDEM I and II trials. In these trials, diabetes (type I and II) patients will be treated with their own stem cells and compared with a control group receiving traditional therapy. The findings will be presented at different international scientific meetings. Later this year, another clinical trial for stroke patients will commence.
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/6/emw533125.htm
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
StaceyMontgomery at 8:04AM, June 22, 2007
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Wow - this thread has a very different tone from the Abortion thread. Fascinating.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Aereis at 9:48AM, June 22, 2007
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I don't believe those embryos are ‘living humans’ yet either. If it has to die, then use it all, especially if it can help people.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:46AM
ZeroVX at 1:24PM, June 22, 2007
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Aren't the embryos used for research considered dead anyway? If so, then what's the problem? They're dead to begin with, they may as well be helpful.

And on the subject of those “pro-life” people, how about, instead of getting mad at scientists who, in the long run, want to help people, why not get mad at Bush, who's still fighting a war that shouldn't have started in the first place?!!

Why? Why is the world full of idiots?
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

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last edited on July 14, 2011 4:58PM
SarahN at 8:22PM, June 22, 2007
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It's like when they hear “stem cell” they think “living fetus” or something. Well, it's not. They need to stop making up stuff.

So far I haven't heard one reason for stem cell research to be wrong that is TRUE. Like they say it's murder, but it's not alive…so that's a lie.

Hmm…I didn't notice any posts really against stem cell research in here. Is this even debatable really? XD I'd like to see someone come out with a logical reason for stem cell research to be wrong. (Didn't mean for this to sound snappy. Sorry if it came out that way.)
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:23PM
StaceyMontgomery at 8:07AM, June 23, 2007
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I am very much in favor of this research going forward, but in all fairness, i want to correct one point -

These embryos do not start out dead, they start out alive. When they dispose of them, they die. But they start out as living tissue. Fertility clinics throw out (or kill, if you prefer) thousands and thousands of these embryos. The embryos could be implanted and many of them would turn into healthy babies if brought to term - They can be used as a source of stem-cells instead.

Just for clarity. If you believe that human life starts at conception (I do not, but apparently many do) then these embryos are human people with, like, souls and stuff.

Personally, i don't believe in human souls - if they exist, they surely enter our bodies at the moment the umbilical cord is cut.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
Kohdok at 11:37AM, June 23, 2007
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lothar
i find the whole debate about the “morality ” of this to be a Joke, when a lot of the same people have no qualms about bombing foreigners !!!
it's just a blob of cells that could possibly save lives ! wtf?

I know, I think it's hilarious! They call themselves “Pro-Life” and yet many of these people also support the death penalty. The most ironic part is that these cells can be used to save lives.

I'm like, WTF?

Wow, for once I agree with Lothar on something…
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
ZeroVX at 12:10PM, June 23, 2007
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StaceyMontgomery
I am very much in favor of this research going forward, but in all fairness, i want to correct one point -

These embryos do not start out dead, they start out alive. When they dispose of them, they die. But they start out as living tissue. Fertility clinics throw out (or kill, if you prefer) thousands and thousands of these embryos. The embryos could be implanted and many of them would turn into healthy babies if brought to term - They can be used as a source of stem-cells instead.

What, really?

I heard that they only use embryos that died, from a miscarriage or whatever.

Where did you hear this?
“If our own government was responsible for the deaths of almost 100,000 people…..would you really wanna know?”

V for Vendetta, V.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:58PM
Aurora Moon at 2:25PM, June 23, 2007
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There are also clinics that uses planeticas (spelling's bad) instead for the stem cell research. you know that junk that comes out of a woman's body after she's finished giving birth to an healthy baby? It's basically the leftover linings of the womb and stuff that she doesn't need anymore. that can be used for research too, since it still has the same kind of cells that stem cells does too.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Kohdok at 2:52PM, June 23, 2007
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Aurora Moon
There are also clinics that uses planeticas (spelling's bad) instead for the stem cell research. you know that junk that comes out of a woman's body after she's finished giving birth to an healthy baby? It's basically the leftover linings of the womb and stuff that she doesn't need anymore. that can be used for research too, since it still has the same kind of cells that stem cells does too.

I'd heard of that somewhere! I just didn't know if it was true that they could use afterbirth for stuff like this, so I didn't post it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
Aurora Moon at 3:19PM, June 23, 2007
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Yep, my mom (who's an nurse, although not working at those clinics), told me about it.

She told me that a lot of those clinics would had perffered to use the afterbirth stuff, snice there was more materinal to work with, increasing the chances of making an breakthrough in their reserech.
However, not a lot of women would donate thier afterbirth stuff, so the hosptials ends up dumping them.

So more clinics use stem cells from embyros snice they're easier to access.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
Insanity at 5:45PM, June 25, 2007
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I believe we should encourage stem cell research, because, contrary to what the opposition says, you don't have to kill a baby to get stem cells. You can actually get stem cells from the umbilical cord after the baby is born. But I think you have to do it quickly.

AwesomeUnicorn
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:01PM
GinckPress at 4:08PM, July 6, 2007
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Stem Cell research seems like it has a lot of potential, but it should be left to the marketplace to fund and not to the taxpayers. Honestly, why should somebody who doesn't agree with it have the money the government steals from them pay for it?

J.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:36PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 5:31PM, July 6, 2007
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GinckPress
Stem Cell research seems like it has a lot of potential, but it should be left to the marketplace to fund and not to the taxpayers. Honestly, why should somebody who doesn't agree with it have the money the government steals from them pay for it?

J.
Well, we do kind of do that all the time already.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
nighthawk41 at 9:26PM, July 6, 2007
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I don't haven't decided what my thoughts on even abortion are, but that doesn't matter becuase I really don't want to vote in that. Voting whether or not someone can have an abortion or not is like saying wether or not someone can be circumcised. It's their decision, not mine.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:16PM
jmt at 9:29PM, July 9, 2007
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i am not sure how an embryo isn't a person… it is the first stages of what a person is. it is created when your little sperms hook up with an egg. thats the beginning of a little person. This whole thing of viable tissue mass is crazy.

if i was really sick, and someeone said “hey buddy, we can cure you, we just gotta throw this baby into a blender to make the cure.” I would not be able to do it.

sorry, that is my one PC incorrect rant for the day.

last edited on July 14, 2011 1:09PM
Aurora Moon at 10:21PM, July 9, 2007
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jmt
i am not sure how an embryo isn't a person… it is the first stages of what a person is. it is created when your little sperms hook up with an egg. thats the beginning of a little person. This whole thing of viable tissue mass is crazy.

if i was really sick, and someeone said “hey buddy, we can cure you, we just gotta throw this baby into a blender to make the cure.” I would not be able to do it.

sorry, that is my one PC incorrect rant for the day.

and again…we've already stated that the stem cell isn't always an embryo. you get stem cells out of the AFTERBIRTH stuff, which doesn't even harm any baby, embryo or not. you can even get adult stem cells out of BONE MARROW!!

people totally need to get over the whole “All stem cells are dead babies, so therefore it's all evil!!” thing because its completely untrue.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:10AM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 7:48AM, July 10, 2007
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I compare fetuses to leeches. Attached to you, living off of you, and making everything inconvenient. And the argument that it will become something is weak, especially when they bring up “What is Einstein's parents aborted?” Oh, I don't know, what if they didn't have sex that exact day? Are you basically saying that you want everyone to have unprotected sex with everyone all the time? Not very Christan sounding to me.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:04AM
Priest_Revan at 9:36AM, July 10, 2007
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I've been supporting all kinds of “immoral” things during my life… why not Stem cell research.

I mean, it could help a lot of people in the end.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:48PM
Hawk at 9:30PM, July 10, 2007
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I compare fetuses to leeches. Attached to you, living off of you, and making everything inconvenient. And the argument that it will become something is weak, especially when they bring up “What is Einstein's parents aborted?” Oh, I don't know, what if they didn't have sex that exact day? Are you basically saying that you want everyone to have unprotected sex with everyone all the time? Not very Christan sounding to me.

Though you justify your opinion pretty well, I think you're missing the point of the opposing point of view. The point those pro-lifers are trying to make isn't that we should have lots of sex and create as many living beings as possible because they would be dead otherwise, it's more an issue of wasted potential… and that potential doesn't even exist until conception.

The abortion issue scares me. I don't know when a life begins. And I think that anyone who professes to know is fooling themselves. It's a mystery. It's like we've got the powers of life and death running through our pants and that's a lot of responsibility. I guess that's why I sit on the dead center of the road in the abortion issue and can't quite make up my mind on stem cell research.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 9:12AM, July 11, 2007
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Yes, but isn't it logically possible to state that life begins at period, just not fertilized? You're right, we don't know, but abortions should be allowed considering life in spirituality is something different than life in science and in a truly free world we allow people to choose science.

Also, as said before, stem cells aren't always dead babies.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:04AM
Hawk at 5:20PM, July 11, 2007
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Yes, but isn't it logically possible to state that life begins at period, just not fertilized? You're right, we don't know, but abortions should be allowed considering life in spirituality is something different than life in science and in a truly free world we allow people to choose science.

Yeah, that's why I say allow abortions, but make sure the woman realizes she might be killing a baby and let the moral dilemma be in her hands, not the voters or politicians. Just don't dress it up with euphemisms like “fetus”, and don't pretend like it's no big deal.

Also, as said before, stem cells aren't always dead babies.

That's true.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:46PM

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