Debate and Discussion

The supernatural: fact or fiction?
zaneeba_slave at 5:00PM, Feb. 13, 2008
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I, having a close encounter with the supernatural, am intrested in what you guys think.

Is there such thing as the supernatural? Like ghosts, demons, chakra, magic.

Explain!
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
kyupol at 7:02PM, Feb. 13, 2008
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zaneeba_slave
I, having a close encounter with the supernatural, am intrested in what you guys think.

Is there such thing as the supernatural? Like ghosts, demons, chakra, magic.

Explain!

Disclaimer: I do not call myself an expert about these things. In fact, I consider myself an idiot as far as my knowledge of the nature of reality is concerned. There is still alot to know there that cannot be covered even if you decide to read every spiritual book out there. Also take into consideration the limited human brain.

I'll explain this as best I can. :)

**************

Ghosts - I believe those are souls that decided to remain on earth because of attachment to something here. Called “unfinished business” in many documentaries about them.

A ghost is basically a human soul. As sentient beings, we have a spiritual nature. And ghosts could also be souls who arent spiritually evolved enough to go to higher states of existence (aka heaven). And they could also be not ‘bad’ enough to go to lower states of existence (aka hell). Also they could be on earth out of their CHOICE. This is a free-will universe.


Demons, - these creatures are beings that exist in lower astrals (aka hell). They do not know things like love, compassion, kindness, etc. They are driven away by those things.

They are attracted to base emotions such as fear, hate, anger, materialism, and other negative emotions and actions that are called “sins” in the religious text.

While demonic possession may be argued as mental insanity, what if that insane person is really hearing devils talking to him/her? A person doesnt become insane for no reason at all. There has to be a high amount of stress and negativity involved.

But what about autistic people and people born with mental retardation? I do not think they are considered insane. These people might be even better at sensing auras and could have an open 3rd eye. I've wondered why is it that my autistic cousin is the first one to sense when someone's angry by crying. Same case with the mentally challenged kid in the church I go to. If I'm within a 5 meter radius, he screams with happiness. I do not talk to him and I dont even know him.


Chakra - In yoga texts, I've read there are 7 chakras:
Root, Sacral, Solar Plexus, Heart, Throat, 3rd Eye, and Crown.
http://www.intentonchange.com/Chakras.html

But according to other belief systems, there are 12:
http://www.colorhealing.com/articles/majorchakras.htm

In a book by Barbara Marciniak that I read (Bringers of the Dawn… supposedly channeled from these aliens called Pleiadians), there is a possibility of an infinite number of chakras but the human biological makeup (Pleiadians are said to be human-like) can only contain max of 12.

The Chakra concept popularized by Naruto could be more of something called Chi. Since Japanese have a Buddhist background in their culture.

This is something that kind of gives me a headache trying to fully comprehend.

Must be the pineal gland.


Magic- I think that “magic” is just a bunch of sleight of hand tricks. My brother is an expert at card tricks that one time, a priest thought he was making deals with the devil. lol!

However, instead of calling them “magic”, I think its like psychic abilities such as healing. Those psychic abilities, I believe they exist.

http://www.fatherfernando.com/ = think about it. If this priest is just a fake, he sure must be a very good magician or liar to have fooled that many people.

Including the Catholic Register which is a reputable Catholic publication in Toronto.

http://www.fatherfernando.com/HealingHands_CatholicRegister.shtml
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
zaneeba_slave at 7:29PM, Feb. 13, 2008
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Tis a good sum up.

I believe demons and ghosts/spirits are virtually the same things. There are some odd-ball ghosts that promise no harm, but many ghosts are out there to do physical harm to people.

Ghost encounters and nature-bending acts (like the coffee cup incident) often lead to possession, and can do horrible things.

I dont believe in magic, however, I believe in sorts of “demonic power” that can be brought out by things…

I have a friend who is a satanist (It's a wierd mix, me being a Christian and all) and he has dampered in a little “magic” which he said does many odd things.

Chakra… is wierd. I believe that people have the power to tap into a hidden power network, but it actually giving you the ability to run up walls and stuff (Like Naruto) is dumb.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
Mr_Vortex at 10:39PM, Feb. 13, 2008
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Fiction.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:08PM
arteestx at 1:47AM, Feb. 14, 2008
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zaneeba_slave
I, having a close encounter with the supernatural, am intrested in what you guys think. Is there such thing as the supernatural? Like ghosts, demons, chakra, magic. Explain!
Ultimately, I don't know. There is so much of the world and universe that we don't understand and haven't even imagined *trying* to understand. This existence holds so many mysteries of awesome wonder, and we should be open to all possibilities.

But if I had to guess, I speculate that it is fiction. Nothing has been proven yet, or at least no one has taken one of the many prizes for proving the supernatural. The idea of it all makes for great stories, great mystery, and great entertainment. But no, there is so much randomness in the world that can account for so much of what we consider magic, paranormal, etc.

In the end, I could be wrong. I am always interested to see what experiences people have with the supernatural. And I am in no position to say what someone else did or did not experience. All I can say is that all those things in your list may be possible, but for me I don't believe in them.

Xolta is not intended for anyone under 18 years old.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
kyupol at 8:00AM, Feb. 14, 2008
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http://skepdic.com/randi.html

I've seen that before.

I'm still a bit of a skeptic myself.

But there is a possibility that the psychic laws are not suppose to perform properly if done for fame and money.

I've always wondered why no psychic wins the lottery.

For psychic abilities to perform well, the person must have a certain degree of spiritual purity (unless you conspire with evil powers). The laws of the universe wont let you be able to astral travel (an advanced psychic skill IMO) if you are materialistic, full of hate, full of fear, and other negativity inside you.

I've seriously tried doing it. All I got was strong electrical and air sensations in my body but nothing really happened (about 70% stronger than that of normal meditation). So no I do not see the point of lying to people here that I can astral travel.

According to people who have done it, they always talk about this cord that connects your soul to your body. The cord cannot be broken not even by the most advanced beings in the universe unless you let them or God wills it.

Anyway, these people who astral travel, have said things about meeting their ancestors, and meeting beings from other worlds, and going to the past and possible future realities (they claim the future isnt set in stone).

They described reptilian beings which they claim are humanoid in appearance but no tails and do not look like the dinosaurs or modern-day lizards. The ones they've met arent evil like what David Icke claims. I guess these lizzies (an entire race) cannot be branded as all evil. There could be “good lizards” out there for all I know. Or could be that the ones they've met are expert deceivers. If a chameleon (an “animal” lizard) can change its color, what ability to you expect an advanced lizard to be able to have?

Also seen are human-like beings described as having caucasian features and having “sharp blue eyes that are larger than normal human eyes” (I imagine beings that look like anime characters lol) that can look at you and you will already know what they're trying to say. There are also mentions of humanoid beings that resemble asians, middle easterns, and blacks. All with the characteristic of larger eyes. And some of these human-type ETs able to change eye color depending on their mood or something. As well as descriptions of colors that cannot be described in words. There are supposedly colors that exist in other realities but not on ours.

Plus more of the stuff about “beauty and horror that cannot be described in words”.

Then astral travelers would tell me that they dont like to explain the details about the other worlds because the human imagination which is governed by the ego can deceive you. I was told that if you expect to see reptoids in the astral realms, you WILL SEE THEM because your subconscious wills to see them. And if your mind is not clear, your imagination will deceive you.

I'm like… huh? imagination. lol! what kind of drugs do you take? but I'm not a rude person who dismisses these claims outright


I've thought about it.

If these so-called ‘astral travelers’ would withhold info and then tell me to buy so and so book, just to get “more information”, I would sniff em out right away as scammers and frauds.

But the answer I got was something like: “do it yourself. Ask your spirit guide or God for help. Good luck!”.

If they are scammers and frauds, they should have tried to sell stuff to me like books, audio tapes, and require you to join some “elite club” (aka cult) that requires a huge sum of money.

That is what made me wonder and believe that astral travel is a possibility with a greater height of spiritual evolution.

Also possibilities that we are not alone in the universe, and every human race on this earth has relatives in the stars.
NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
alibaba at 8:11AM, Feb. 14, 2008
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i think of it similarly like arteestx does.
things that are labeled as supernatural are imho perfectly natural, but just not understood.
we can see in history that people always tend to call everything that is hard to explain supernatural or “godly”: the sun, lightning, stars and even earthquakes and volcanos.
the better we understand nature, the clearer it becomes that everything has a natural explanation.
the big turn-off regarding psychic ablities, etc. is that practically all of the people claiming to have them are clearly frauds, may it be Uri Geller, Allison DuBois or James van Praagh…
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
zaneeba_slave at 4:02PM, Feb. 14, 2008
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I know you have all the hope in the world for science to succeed in learning the secrets of the world, alibaba, but I cant imagine how some supernatural things can be proven to be less then super-natural.


Sure, some can be proven with science: Bigfoot, Lock ness, aliens, etc.

But I cant think of it to be possible that scientists can think of a way to figure out the secrets of spirits and other-worldly things.

I have heard of many explinations for ghosts and demons. The most hilarious one is the atheistic viewpoint on ghosts xD. It was something like “The light shining from the sun hits a sort of gas which causes the illusion of spirits.”

But spirits have the power to do extreme physical harm to humans, and can be proven by looking at past documents of the dead.

Nothing can explain it, except by what we already know. Spirits are intelligent. Spirits can speak and act upon things in a way people dont understand.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
alibaba at 4:54PM, Feb. 14, 2008
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@zaneeba_slave: well, this is where our ways of thinking differ.

you see, i think that there very well could be supernatural things in our universe that can't be explained.
but how can you tell what can and what can't be explained? how to differ natural from supernatural? you can't just “know” what truly is supernatural.

so no matter what, the only reasonable way is research.
the alternative would be to simply leave everything as a mystery and don't even try to understand it.

i prefer the former method because it leads to development, the latter leads to nothing, since its comfortable with not-knowing.

what if spirits in fact exist and can be explained? wouldn't you want to understand them? even if we couldn't, we should at least try.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
zaneeba_slave at 8:39PM, Feb. 14, 2008
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I agree with your assesment, Ali.

I do want to understand why there are spirits and why they are here.
Research is a wonderful thing.

But so far, science has come up short of solving many mysteries that I have seen in my own personal life. The spirits, the great green fire-ball shooting past abve me.
I could have been crazy, but how satisfying to know that these things were seen by other people as well.

I have seen things that can boggle the minds of many, but I always wonder why.

why and what caused them? Were they really ghosts? If they were, what caused them to be there? What was the great green fire-ball flying over me? A UFO?

I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
kyupol at 9:53PM, Feb. 14, 2008
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I do want to understand why there are spirits and why they are here.

Spirits are here to serve their own interests.

A “good” spirit is “good” by our standards because they are supposedly kind, loving, caring, friendly, and helpful. However, the reason why they do that behavior is more for their interest.
Because their nature is to feed off the “good” vibration of a good person. If you are a nice person, compassionate, kind, loving, etc… you tend to attract these spirits.
While you think that you are just being a food source, think of it that you are mutually benefiting from each other.
Notice how when you do a good deed, you feel good inside. And when you do a bad deed, you later feel the ‘guilty conscience’.

While I made a thread before about human nature being evil, I feel like taking back what I said. Because human beings have this good nature that allows you to feel good if you do a good deed. :) And the ‘bad’ nature that stems from the misconception of what is good.


Same thing with a “bad” spirit. These entities feed on hate, anger, stress, fear, and all sorts of negative emotions. But to this being, it is doing it for the good of its own existence. Its self-interest.

These spiritual beings are on our Earth because of their self-interests. When I say spiritual being, they could be “aliens” for all I know.

Think about it. What if ‘life’ as we know it doesnt only mean about physical reality of a body. What if it could mean a spiritual source? What if there are beings that are so advanced that they dont need a physical body to exist? And they are already here to further their self-interests.


As human beings, it is in our best interest to be good to ourselves and to our neighbors just like what every religion says in their basics. Because I noticed that when religions start nitpicking, they become destructive.

I'd rather be in a state of spiritual happiness and my energy nourishing these good entities… than in a state of spiritual sadness and my energy nourishing the evil ones.

I could just imagine what a being that lives on fear and pain do to you if it had its way. Torture? Anyone? This is the idea of the fires of hell that was popularized in the bible. Or what about constantly bombarding your thoughts with patterns of hatred?

I still remember myself at that state of mind. Hating everyone and thinking about killing myself every single minute of the day. What a horrible experience. I shudder at the thought that I actually convinced myself that I should destroy all my emotions by watching violent videos repeatedly and bombarding my head with all kinds of perverse sexual stuff.

The original objective was to kill my emotions. Why kill emotion? Because whenever I showed emotion I was viewed as weak and lost the respect of the general population. Why? Does human respect really matter to me that I just had to kill my emotions just to please them and fit in? That is batshit insane!!! Killing my emotions is like killing my spiritual potential! Who gives a damn what people think about you? Will you be happy being viewed as “normal” while you yourself is living in a self-created hell? Then if that is the case, being ‘normal’ is being like ‘hell’. Yes. So I'd rather be myself and accept it that my brain functions differently from the rest.

Dang. a long rant. lol!

NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
Doplegager at 5:27AM, Feb. 15, 2008
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zaneeba_slave
I, having a close encounter with the supernatural, am intrested in what you guys think.

Is there such thing as the supernatural? Like ghosts, demons, chakra, magic.

Explain!
One of the pitfalls of the language is that ‘supernatural’ implies that the phenomena are different or separate from the natural world. I've always thought that the differentiation was in bad taste; while they might be different from current secular understanding of the world, and they might be different from ‘mundane’ day-to-day interactions with the world, that doesn't inherently make them less natural. So, by my definition, I don't believe in supernatural things, but I still think ghosts, demons, chakra, magic, etc are still all quite possible.
Scifi Thriller/Drama: Third Side, updated MTWThFS

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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:13PM
HalJones at 8:55AM, Feb. 15, 2008
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I've had so many “supernatural” experiences throughout the course of my life that I can't possible deny it's existence, even though, at the same time, I feel it's a great thing that there are more and more people starting to investigate or come out about such things. To me, the “supernatural” is quite natural and can be equated to the “spiritual” realms as well as their effect (whatever that may be) and actually are the Multiverse. How many dimensions make it up, how many realities, we cannot know. When it occurs in our reality, few people understand it, are afraid of it (sometimes possibly a good thing), and tend to shove aside the truth that thousands and thousands of records about supernatural phenomena, but, because its “merely unmeasurable and impossible to quantify” the supernatural becomes relegated to the edges of society where people listen to “Coast to Coast am” and read books by Sylvia Browne. It should, instead, be studied, in as many ways as we can, including the history and experiences of the thousands of people who make claims of supernatural experiences. Investigation can at least prove them fraudulent if they are frauds, but can lift the knowledge about this area and continually gather new insight if more scientists would get involved instead of criticizing what they haven't studied themselves. A lot about the Multiverse is highly subjective and does involve imagination; especially things I would personally consider deceptive), but the objective element is that these experiences, many of them the same or identical over and over, actually happen. Many people hide their experiences, real or imagined, for fear of being socially ostracized, but they will often talk with someone they have confidence in and who won't judge them.

There simply are so many things that we don't understand that it's silly, really, to completely dismiss the supernatural out of hand just because one hasn't personally experienced it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
bobhhh at 6:46PM, Feb. 15, 2008
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Houdini and the Amazing Randi have been heroes of mine for years now. I had the privelige of meeting Randi when I was still in HS.

So I must echo the sentiment that what most people take as supernatural can be explained by more mundane reasons.

That's not to deny spirituality. Some people can give themselves freely to spirituality. Having the ability to extend from yourself is not the qustion, mind expansion is truly an internal journey. Some people can transcend their waking consciousness by reading a moving poem, meditating, praying or taking drugs,

…but I have serious doubts about the presence of a ectomorphic spirit world where spectres, ghosts, spirit guides and poltergists roam freely just out of range of our perception just as I doubt UFO's travel the universe to disembowel cows, peform anal probes and just generally hide behind bushes so they can jump out and say boo.

I think this notion of ghosts and demons is as easily explained as Uri Geller's spoon bending. People want to believe. It's easy to fool someone who wants to be fooled. I ask all people to walk down the road of skepticism as an excercize. If for a moment you accept the possibility that the supernatural doesn't exist, then how may these misperceptions come about?

I think if you are honest with yourself you will discover there are many explanations that are possible for the world around us that needn't delve into the supernatural.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
zaneeba_slave at 8:12PM, Feb. 15, 2008
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Uh… I am sorry, but I cannot deny what I have seen with what you believe.

I never believed in ghosts until I saw one myself. I never believed in UFOs until I saw one myself.

When I saw these things, they changed my life. What I thought was a very largly accepted prank has now turned into truth right before my very eyes.

The funny thing is, I wasnt the only person to see these. People who lived in the house before told me with pen-point accuracy tha they have seen a dead soldier.

People driving by came into my shop and were hysterical at the sight of a “Great green fire-ball” wizzing past their cars. Even people on the radio spoke of it.


It is more then just coincidence. People dont believe in these things fully until they see it for themselves.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
alibaba at 3:37AM, Feb. 16, 2008
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zaneeba_slave
The funny thing is, I wasnt the only person to see these. People who lived in the house before told me with pen-point accuracy tha they have seen a dead soldier.

People driving by came into my shop and were hysterical at the sight of a “Great green fire-ball” wizzing past their cars. Even people on the radio spoke of it.

was there media coverage? i mean like, are there videos available somewhere, or articles :D ? you can't leave us hanging here, man XD .
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
zaneeba_slave at 7:30AM, Feb. 16, 2008
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It was actually spoken about on a local Christian talk show. Some people on the show have seen it.

Cant give you a link really, for I dont know the name of the radio station :)

If I can find it, I'll see what I can dig up.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
kyupol at 8:41AM, Feb. 16, 2008
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was there media coverage? i mean like, are there videos available somewhere, or articles :D ? you can't leave us hanging here, man XD .

Why would “credible” MSM (mainstream media) outlets cover the supernatural?

Think about it. What will those in power (who control MSM) gain from the idea that there is such a thing called a spiritual reality? If people are awakened to their higher nature?

No wonder that kind of stuff is purposely relegated to the ‘fringe’ tabloids and small talk shows and purposely mixed up with bullshit stories about celebrities. To destroy the credibility of the source.

I've also wondered along the lines why people who claim the supernatural and other ‘unpopular’ ideas are the subject of ridicule.

By constant ridiculing, it is hoped to discourage the ‘wrong’ ideas.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer


NOW UPDATING!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:25PM
alibaba at 10:30AM, Feb. 16, 2008
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kyupol:
your point could be quite convincing, because it frequently happens that truth is distorted, ridiculed, falsified, etc.
however, i think you are underestimating truth.

it simply isn't possible that everything that is said on tv or the internet or wherever is intentionally said in a ridiculous way so that it only appears to be bullshit.

this claim is, wait, how was that word…? yes, preposterous XD (i love this word).

just stop and think for a minute: whats with the countless people claiming to be psychics or aliens or whatever appearing frequently on the media? do you think they are being paid by some higher-ups to appear like charlatans? all of them?

don't you think that if someone really knew that “hidden truth”, it would have appeared somewhere long ago? i (almost) agree that the media is a brainwashing-tool, but something like this can't be hidden for so long.
also, if the higher-ups knew about supernatural powers, do you think they would invest millions to investigate them for all these years (without success).
no, they would have turned us to puppets long ago!

don't you think that all those independent researchers all around the world would have found some credible clues (i never stumbled across even one)?

in fact, i can turn your claim around: the believers in those supernatural powers are the ones who ridicule serious scientists.
there have been countless researches centered around psychic and supernatural powers. just because none of them could produce results in favor of those powers does not mean that the truth is being hidden. again, it simply isn't possible to shut up everyone.

but if you do have any credible information that supports the idea of supernature, i would love to hear it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
zaneeba_slave at 11:32AM, Feb. 16, 2008
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I am not sure how credible this show is, but they come out with some super awesome stuff. This, most of all.




They already tried to bust this by saying “Thermo reflection”, but the specter was far higher up then they were.

And for some strange reason, the “2” on the locker was burning bright red.
Ghost, perhaps? They brought in scientists too, and they couldnt figure it out either.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
alibaba at 1:55PM, Feb. 16, 2008
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this is interesting, but i would like to know what they did afterwards.
having a chance like this, they can't just say “okay, we have it on tape, lets go home.”

what makes me skeptical about this is that they work under very bad conditions (in darkness) and also don't seem to really try to understand what it is (they don't try to change their position, go nearer towards it, etc.).
one could say: “but its more likely to catch ghosts in darkness!”
well, one could also say that its more likely to catch all kinds of things that could look like ghosts in darkness…
i also wonder why they do seem to be scared and excited? not that its not understandable, but i can't see the least bit of professionality there…

all this makes it look like they are trying to capture the right atmosphere for a scary show, but not seriously try to understand what's going on (at least in this short clip).

i'm not saying that this couldn't be a ghost or whatever (though i doubt it), but they certainly don't do their job professionally, which is quite a shame.

i also just watched some other of their episodes and i really don't think they're doing good work… they seem to be happy with a little bit of bad-quality footage (worst of all - they don't even use a tripod :D ).
and afterwards they say something like: “well, we're not sure if it really was an apparition, but we have the evidence on tape.” well, how about going and making sure XD ?

btw, what also is very often at fault is the equipment (these guys seem to have pretty poor equipment).
a good example of how bad-quality-cameras can falsify video information is the famous “face on mars”. photographed with a relatively weak cam it really appears to be a human face, but with a modern tele-cam it bears no resemblance to a face whatsoever.

i think this is what could be happening in this video, too.
a thermal camera shows a LOT of stuff, which, like that guy said, usually isn't impressive. but sometimes, with a bit of imagination, it can resemble a human figure. i think that if they had a better camera, it wouldn't look much like a human at all, at least it would become clear what it really is, whether a real paranormal phenomenon, a reflection or whatever.
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
zaneeba_slave at 2:32PM, Feb. 16, 2008
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Yes,in most cases, they basically take what they have and prove that a house isnt haunted.

This place they were searching, however, they classified haunted.

And as I've said, they brought in scientists to try and see if they could lable what this could be. They couldnt.

Not to mention the strange glowing “Red 2” that you see that comes from the locker. They tried to film the locker again, and the number two didnt glow anymore, and what could be a “thermo reflection” was no longer there.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
CoyoteLongshot at 3:15PM, Feb. 16, 2008
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bobhhh
Houdini and the Amazing Randi have been heroes of mine for years now. I had the privelige of meeting Randi when I was still in HS.

So I must echo the sentiment that what most people take as supernatural can be explained by more mundane reasons.

That's not to deny spirituality. Some people can give themselves freely to spirituality. Having the ability to extend from yourself is not the qustion, mind expansion is truly an internal journey. Some people can transcend their waking consciousness by reading a moving poem, meditating, praying or taking drugs,

…but I have serious doubts about the presence of a ectomorphic spirit world where spectres, ghosts, spirit guides and poltergists roam freely just out of range of our perception just as I doubt UFO's travel the universe to disembowel cows, peform anal probes and just generally hide behind bushes so they can jump out and say boo.

I think this notion of ghosts and demons is as easily explained as Uri Geller's spoon bending. People want to believe. It's easy to fool someone who wants to be fooled. I ask all people to walk down the road of skepticism as an excercize. If for a moment you accept the possibility that the supernatural doesn't exist, then how may these misperceptions come about?

I think if you are honest with yourself you will discover there are many explanations that are possible for the world around us that needn't delve into the supernatural.

I'm in the same boat here. I think it's more a matter of your personal beliefs than anything else. If you're a born skeptic, as I am, you aren't going to believe something without concrete proof that it really was a spirit or a ghost, whereas if you are more open to the idea, you'll start attributing occurrences that may be nothing special to a “spiritual encounter” because you want to believe it.

Now, I'm not refuting the people here who believe they have had encounters like this, but since I have never in my life seen or encountered anything that I knew was supernatural, I just can't believe it. It's the same thing with most religion for me. I have to have proof, that's just the way I am.

And really, I don't think most of these ghost hunting shows have any real credibility. There's no way to tell what's real and what's fake these days because of computer programs that can edit camera footage to look just the way you want it to. It's kinda like the Loch Ness monster thing; there's so much stuff on TV and on the internet, but not one of them can prove that it's actually real. So until that day, I'll just keep on not-believing.
I'm on the Hairway to Steven, baby!
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:47AM
alibaba at 5:12PM, Feb. 16, 2008
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well, what i still would like to know is how their footage went on… did the “apparition” disappear? did it “float away” XD ?

zaneeba_slave
This place they were searching, however, they classified haunted.
i'd call it an unexplained phenomenon at best, calling it haunted is rather far-fetched imho.

zaneeba_slave
And as I've said, they brought in scientists to try and see if they could lable what this could be. They couldnt.
i didn't see the full episode, but while looking for more info about it on the net i never saw anywhere anything mentioned about scientists looking into it. link?

what i did find however, was that they themself tried to reconstruct it.

and after looking at this page:
http://www.ultimatetechlinks.com/CrescentHotelAnalysis.html
i'm actually completely convinced that it in fact was a thermal reflection.
you can even see how the reflection had the same shirt as him…

the posture is the same as his and the colors are in the same range one would expect from a reflection. i seriously doubt this is a coincidence.

as for that 2, i dunno why the camera is showing it in red (i believe its because the color is warmer than the steel locker, thus leading to a contrast) but it can be clearly seen in the first recreation attempt that it always glows red (i just watched a video of this scene myself). it looked 100% the same like in the original footage. so this part is pretty much cleared up.

the reason why they couldn't recreate his reflection is imho because they didn't try to recreate it exactly as before; their distances and positions, etc. were different.

oh and the most convincing part: did you notice how small that supposed apparition was in comparison to the 2? it is exactly the same size his reflection from that distance would be. the ghost could only be so tiny if it was inside the locker XD !

i have no idea how they could give up so quickly and reach the “haunted”-conclusion, whereas i find it crystal-clear that it was nothing more than a reflection.

and now i am at the same point where i started: if they, instead of getting all excited, tried to go nearer towards it and change their position, it would become clear that it is only a reflection. why didn't they do it? it leaves me wondering… (no, actually not :D )
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:49AM
zaneeba_slave at 6:04PM, Feb. 16, 2008
(online)
posts: 87
joined: 1-12-2007
As I have said, I am unsure how truely real this show is.

But they have found other amazing things in this show that I might show you.
I like to imagine myself as a goblin in a tuxedo. -Zaneeba_slave
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:54PM
horseboy at 10:13PM, Feb. 16, 2008
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posts: 139
joined: 8-27-2006
Oh the crap I've seen, the things I've done. For the record, decapitation of zombies doesn't work.
There is no such word as “alot”. “A lot” is two words.
Voltaire
Never seek for happiness, it will merely allude the seeker. Never strive for knowledge, it is beyond man's scope. Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind. The wise man, like the rat, the crocodile, the fly, merely fulfills his natural function.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
StaceyMontgomery at 6:25AM, Feb. 17, 2008
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posts: 520
joined: 4-7-2007
Let's try this experiment:

You owe me a hundred dollars.

No, really.

First of all, I swear to you that you owe me a hundred dollars. I just KNOW it, deep inside. I've always kind of known it. Sure, you've closed your mind to it, but if you just open up a little, you will see that it's true.

Look, lots of people owe someone a hundred dollars. Think about it, it happens to folks all the time. So why should you be any different?

Sure, there's no solid evidence that you owe me a hundred dollars. Like, nothing written down or anything. But there wouldn't be, would there? I mean, some financial arrangements show up on paper but some just don't. You're too skeptical. Just try to see the magical possibilities.

In fact, the TOTAL lack of evidence here is kind of suspicious - it's all too perfect. You can tell that something deep is happening, can't you?

Look, yesterday I was at the bookstore trying to buy a collection of China Mieville short stories - and (now get this) I didn't have ANY money!

Sure, it COULD be because I'm unemployed, but what if there's more to it than that? What if the money I DIDNT have was the hundred bucks you owe me? Hmmm?

Think about. See how it all fits together?

If you type “you owe me a hundred bucks” into google, you can see that the phrase come up over and over, in every part of the world and throughout history. It's eternal. It's not just something you can ignore.

Now Think about it - why would I lie about something like this?

Anyway, I hope you'll put down the skepticism, open up your soul and have an open mind about this:

- Cause you totally owe me a hundred bucks!

—–
By the way, if this works for you, just use paypal (send to sheerchaos at aol dot com) to send that hundred bucks you owe me right away!

last edited on July 14, 2011 3:55PM
parkbenchbook at 6:36AM, Feb. 17, 2008
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posts: 229
joined: 10-28-2007
I know for a fact it makes for good comics.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:38PM
bobhhh at 4:35PM, Feb. 17, 2008
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posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
kyupol
was there media coverage? i mean like, are there videos available somewhere, or articles :D ? you can't leave us hanging here, man XD .

Why would “credible” MSM (mainstream media) outlets cover the supernatural?

Think about it. What will those in power (who control MSM) gain from the idea that there is such a thing called a spiritual reality? If people are awakened to their higher nature?

Are you kidding? The reason they dont cover it is cause there is no story. If someone could prove a supernatural event, the MSM smother would it with a 24/7, Larry King/Wolf Blitzer/Anderson Cooper Media Colonoscopy.

The reason Ghosts and miracles are on the Sci Fi channel is that alone they don't merit enough interest to even get their own fringe cable chanel, which is saying something considering even golf gets its own channel. :)
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM
bobhhh at 4:46PM, Feb. 17, 2008
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posts: 893
joined: 5-12-2007
zaneeba_slave
I am not sure how credible this show is, but they come out with some super awesome stuff. This, most of all.




They already tried to bust this by saying “Thermo reflection”, but the specter was far higher up then they were.

And for some strange reason, the “2” on the locker was burning bright red.
Ghost, perhaps? They brought in scientists too, and they couldnt figure it out either.

THis is what I think about that…

Ghost in shadow, man on Mars. Take yer pick.
My name is Bob and I approved this signature.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:29AM

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