General Discussion

To those leaving: Why?
Orion13 at 7:38AM, Sept. 28, 2006
(offline)
posts: 1
joined: 8-21-2006
Guys, I'm pretty new here and it looks like I came in at the wrong time completely. I don't know Platinum or Dylan or a lot of the other players behind the scenes, but I know the comics I see on here and I like what I read and plan to stick around for a long time. One thing I can't understand is exactly why some folks are talking about leaving this place. I understand that the corporatization of things is a little scary, believe me I'm a staunch Libertarian, but what exactly are the things that you don't like about the changes that have been made? Overall, they seem pretty positive and they even seem willing to adjust to things that we don't like quite quickly. I'm not a creator here, just a fan and I'm trying to wrap my brain around the strong reaction everyone seems to be having, as I realize my experience may be a bit different from most people's here.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:22PM
Mimarin at 7:49AM, Sept. 28, 2006
(offline)
posts: 1,107
joined: 1-7-2006
Who knows? Leaving solves no problems at all. Even staying and being an asshole is more productive.
Of course you will. All intelligent beings dream. Nobody knows why.

Also, tell random people they are awsome! it helps!
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:02PM
Ronson at 7:53AM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 837
joined: 1-1-2006
That made me laugh, mimarin. Thanks.

I think it's mostly the fear of change mixed with a bit of insecurity.

six months from now it won't even be an issue.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Rich at 8:50AM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 1,434
joined: 2-11-2006
Technically I'm only half-leaving. I'm just moving EMD! to ComicGenesis and will continue updating my other comics here (Equinox, EMD!:SC!, Hie Qwalitie).
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:06PM
kingofsnake at 9:37AM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 1,374
joined: 9-27-2006
I came when I heard about everything. The only thing keeping me away from drunk duck was the server crashes and the pop-ups and such. I like the community here way better.
My CG page is still my main site, but I'm starting a sister page here now that things are stable.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
JTPokie at 9:58AM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 59
joined: 1-2-2006
No worries really, Don't understand why ppl are freaking out so much.
What's Your Gig? http://www.nightgig.com

The Gigcast
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:11PM
skoolmunkee at 11:42AM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 7,058
joined: 1-2-2006
Because change is scary.
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:39PM
Enef at 11:45AM, Sept. 28, 2006
(offline)
posts: 260
joined: 1-3-2006
I've said it before and i'll say it again.

Good riddance to those who leave.

Attitudes like that will get them no where in life.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:22PM
Ronson at 11:48AM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 837
joined: 1-1-2006
skoolmunkee
Because change is scary.

And inevitable. :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
hat at 12:02PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(offline)
posts: 449
joined: 8-27-2006
This is a horrible change. Upgrade = good, but this downgrade is a disaster.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
flaak_monkey at 12:06PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 120
joined: 2-7-2006
i dont consider this a downgrade but a mainstream upgrade. which is cool.

last edited on July 14, 2011 12:29PM
ccs1989 at 12:06PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 2,656
joined: 1-2-2006
As long as the forums get adjusted a little, that's all I care about. I don't mind any of this stuff changing, but considering my comic is on hiatus I don't really have any reason to be angry about how things are changing.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:38AM
skoolmunkee at 12:23PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 7,058
joined: 1-2-2006
Ronson
And inevitable. :)
NOOOOOOOOOOOO
  IT'S OLD BATMAN
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:39PM
sandy at 12:33PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 478
joined: 1-5-2006
I actually think this upgrade is the best thing that could have ever happened to Drunk Duck. I'm not getting any of the popups like I did before and I used to get a lot of them. I know I'm sticking around for a long time. Definitely a big improvement from when I first originally started using Drunk Duck which was I think about two years ago before the first shut down. Then, I moved back into DD as soon as it came back, but yeah, this is waaaaaay better than what we had before. ^^
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:22PM
Inkmonkey at 12:58PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 2,220
joined: 1-3-2006
hat
This is a horrible change. Upgrade = good, but this downgrade is a disaster.

Yes, it's horrible that Dylan is now getting paid to do something he loves and gets to spend more time with his family. Those dirty, Platinum Bastards!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
Ronson at 1:04PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 837
joined: 1-1-2006
I think he just means the lack of functionality of the forums. But it seems to be getting a little bit better every hour or so. I'm sure they have quite a laundry list of tasks in front of them, but I know they're going to have a forum system that eventually exceeds any free forum system…at least as applied to DD.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
isukun at 1:05PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 2,481
joined: 9-28-2006
I have no problems with the new site apart from minor gripes. Even those, however, tend to be improvements over the old site. I definitely like putting more emphasis on community. Integrating the forums into the site design is also a huge step up. It encourages authors and artists to become active community members by not forcing them to register again for forum access.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
Generic Human at 1:08PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 405
joined: 1-7-2006
Hmm…I guess a reason that a person would leave would be the popularity that the Duck is going to get now. It was already hard for a comic to get any recognition, but that was different on Drunk Duck. The community was smaller, it was easier to get comments and critique on your comic, but now that it's more mainstreamed, more people will join. As a result, it'll become less personified, just another faceless large corporation. It sounds exagerrated, but I'm afraid about that. That all the good comics will just get lost amoung the crappy comics that jumped the bandwagon.

But leaving wont help any of that.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:34PM
ShadowsMyst at 2:25PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 218
joined: 1-9-2006
I dunno. It might make it more popular, but there seems to be more effort being looked at to try and give better recognition to comics that work hard, make searching more effective so people can find your comic, and more power to customize the look of your part of the site. Bugs are getting fixed. Features are being added, and we don't have to foot the bill.

I'd say thats a pretty good deal.

_____________________________________________________
I have a webcomic making blog! Check it out.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:32PM
Rich at 2:28PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 1,434
joined: 2-11-2006
I guess I'll be hanging around DD for a bit longer since they have me convinced that they will try and fix everything. The only catch is that I'm just gonna remaster all my earlier pages before I upload them again.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:06PM
subcultured at 7:49PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 5,392
joined: 1-7-2006
just gottA make the best of it.
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:00PM
phinmagic at 10:15PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(online)
posts: 67
joined: 9-26-2006
Hey I just found out about this place from DJ Coffman over at Yirmumma! I have a Comicgenesis page, I'm gonna mirror it over here, this place seems like fun!

Cheers

Barry

http://phinmagic.comicgenesis.com
Phinmagic

last edited on July 14, 2011 2:43PM
xkyuketsuki at 11:06PM, Sept. 28, 2006
(offline)
posts: 166
joined: 9-19-2006
Hey, with every upgrade there will be bugs that need working out and think of it this way, if it does become more popular that also means more readers! I try to look on the bright side of things >.>
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:52PM
SpANG at 6:43AM, Sept. 29, 2006
(online)
posts: 3,105
joined: 1-1-2006
Kline
But to suggest that people ditching DD are just afraid of change is misguided at best, disingenuous BS at worst.
We didn't. We suggested that people are ditching DD for the wrong reasons, stemmed from an inaccurate NY Times article, a forum blogger that was woefully uninformed, and a comic that preyed on those fears just for a “laugh”.

Would a heads up have been nice? Well, yes. Heck, some Admins didn't even know about it. But due to certain contract negotiations Volte could not say anything, or the whole deal may have fallen through. Look how fast it got out to everywhere in just a few hours after the NY times article.

If DD HADN'T been acquired by Platinum and was still privately owned, who knows what would have happened. I can speculate however, given (repeating) events from the past:

- It would have crashed due to bad hosting problems.
- It would still have annoying pop-unders and noisy flash ads to pay the bills
- Volte would not have had the time to improve ANYTHING.
- People would be complaining louder than they do now.
- After some frustration, he may have even walked away from it. I probably would have.

I can understand why people reacted the way they did, but it's really their loss if they don't give it a chance. Things change, either for the good or bad.

The bottom line for me is that Volte MADE this great, user-friendly place for all of us to play, and it's still here for us to do just that. Some of you may think that you are entitled to something more than you got because you helped it become a success, but tell me how much credit/profits you get from Google and MSN first.
“To a rational mind, nothing is inexplicable. Only unexplained.”
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:51PM
kingofsnake at 7:01AM, Sept. 29, 2006
(online)
posts: 1,374
joined: 9-27-2006
Kline
Sure Volte made DD for free under his own time and expense but the the CONTENT that drove hits and made DD an assett worth aquiring was provided for free by creators at their own expense. They thought they were taking part in a community and not creating assets for Volte to turn a profit on or for Platinum to profit off of through ad revenue none of which they themselves will ever see. Rightly or wrongly some feel used and that they were sold out.That the “community” was really just a free content pool to be used as a bargaining chip for others' profits. Others simply resent that the so-called “community” was bargained off without ever informing that community. And others simply don't wish to be part of a larger commercial enterprise.

One can make the argument that the creators were also making a profit to begin with through merchandise sales that Volte certainly never got a commisiom on, of course. But to suggest that people ditching DD are just afraid of change is misguided at best, disingenuous BS at worst.

This post shows nothing but complete niavete as to how economics works. Anyone signing up for any free webhosting community, be it drunk duck, or comicgenesis, or deviant art, or myspace, has to be aware that their content is factoring into the overall profitablity of the parent host. In fact I'm sure that little agreement you didn't read but just clicked the “I agree to terms” box instead said something along those lines. It's ridiculous to expect someone to do the full time job of keeping a site like this running without compensation. So the owner keeps the advertising revenue and he even puts some of that money back into the project, to improve it for the people in that community. If you were really all that concerned with someone else making money off of your product you'd've shelled out the 75$ to buy your own website in the first place. If you weren't aware that the guy running the show wasn't doing it for free for shits and giggles then you aren't very bright. I don't see “Drunk Duck is a non-profit organization” posted anywhere on this site, and I never have. So far the biggest changes I've seen from the buy-out is the site's gotten better, and the initial blind hatred for the “big corporations” (and from what i understand in the print comic world, platinum studios is still very much the little guy, they're like a step up from independant publishers.)

If ANYONE is online offering a webcomic to people to read for free its not because they want to be part of a community. It's because they love doing it.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
Ronson at 7:09AM, Sept. 29, 2006
(online)
posts: 837
joined: 1-1-2006
Kline, I accidentally deleted your post. It wasn't a conspiracy, I'm not used to the buttons yet. I was trying to quote it…

Fortunately, kingofsnake quoted it in full.

Anyway, I just wanted to respond that those who feel DD is not what it was, or that it has now become something they don't like are free to go (like always). I hope that even if they remove their comic they'll continue to be a part of our forum participants.

…and then kingofsnake said a lot of what I was going to say. DD was a website, not a public park. It was owned by an individual, now a company. That's not the worst thing in the world and can be even better since Dylan still controls the programming.

One thing I disagree with SpANG on is that I don't think Dylan would ever turn his back on the community no matter what the cost, or how loudly a few people complained. The majority of the DD community has shown that they're all right with this change(or at least willing to see what happens). There are a few who are unhappy, and there always are - every time DD changes, we lose a few and gain a lot. Check out the hello section if you don't believe me.

Financial considerations aside, I believe he sold it to Platinum - and now works for them - because he thinks it's the best cours for DD and himself.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
Kline at 8:01AM, Sept. 29, 2006
(offline)
posts: 26
joined: 9-28-2006
No, problem, Ronson.

In response to some of the other responses, all rude aspersions aside, one of my own problems is the disconnect between the assurances that this is a “friendly community, they're great guys, they're comic fans like us” one moment to encourage participation and the evocation of MSN and Google and “it's just business” the next. I realize this is a business and that Platinum and Volte are here to make a profit. They are looking out for themselves and by asking questions and presenting criticism I am looking out for myself, as all parties should. And indeed, as criticism arises, DD has continued to offer clarifications which can only be a good thing. I'm about 80/20 on ever putting something on DD right now and you can be sure that all the condescending insults in the world are not going to keep me from doing my best to take my time and look critically at the situation. It is hypocritical to accuse me of not bothering to look at the all the information and then insult me when I speak out about something I may have a concern with or attempting a dialogue on a thread intended to discuss these criticisms.

According to the NY times article DD was something that Volte was doing in his “spare time” and not as full time work. I believe that partcipants had no problem with ad revenue going to him or being used to pay for the site. It is the leveraging of their content for sale to a corporation for full commercialization that they had a problem with.

And yes, I did go ahead and buy some private hosting for myself. But thanks for the tip.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:19PM
Ronson at 8:17AM, Sept. 29, 2006
(online)
posts: 837
joined: 1-1-2006
According to the NY times article DD was something that Volte was doing in his “spare time” and not as full time work. I believe that partcipants had no problem with ad revenue going to him or being used to pay for the site. It is the leveraging of their content for sale to a corporation for full commercialization that they had a problem with.

I understand that, and I think that's the only valid difference between the way it was a few months ago and today. But it isn't their content that was for sale. It was the system they used. If that weren't the case, people wouldn't have the option to leave and they do.

I think it's somewhat disengenous to pretend that other sites aren't thinking toward profit and aren't giving money to a corporation at some point. Hosting is mostly done by corporations, the only difference is that you give the money to them instead of them running ads on your site. That is, you pay directly for the service.

But the full control and ownership an artist has to do what they please with their art is something I strongly believe in. For me, DD hasn't changed in a significant enough way - or in an even slightly negative way - for me to consider leaving.

But it is all perception. Anyone uncomfortable should weight the issues before you and make your choices. And there is no wrong answer. I am sure the majority will stay with DD, and that some will leave. But the door is always open for them to return.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:10PM
kingofsnake at 8:34AM, Sept. 29, 2006
(online)
posts: 1,374
joined: 9-27-2006
Kline
It is hypocritical to accuse me of not bothering to look at the all the information and then insult me when I speak out about something I may have a concern with or attempting a dialogue on a thread intended to discuss these criticisms.

I'm sorry if my newspost came off as aggressive, I didn't mean for it to be insulting. Perhaps I simply misinterpreted your newspost. Drunk duck is both a business and a community, in fact it's in the business of being a community, So really both positions have strong arguments for their sides. But just because DD is a business doesn't make it anyless a community and visa versa. In fact the community is the reason I started to post my comic on DD.

In reality it is unlikely that PS will see a lot of direct profits from DD, the benifit they'll have from DD is as a forum to drum up interest in their comic projects, and as a bridge for taleted writers and artists to connect with the professional comic world, that otherwise would have no idea how to get themselves noticed.

But the thought that the reason someone might leave, is “I helped make this community great, now the community is making money, wheres my cut?” is fundamentally flawed. It'd be like telling your friend about this awesome band, your friend going out and buying the CD and then you writing a letter to the band looking for a finders fee.

The only difference in policy thus far is that any profit is going into PS now insted of Dylan, and they just shelled out bucks for this massive upgrade, so I'm betting they're going to have a little while to go before they're in the black
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:15PM
Kline at 9:03AM, Sept. 29, 2006
(offline)
posts: 26
joined: 9-28-2006
I think you both make good points here. I suppose the difference in hosting options is transparancy really.

With the band anology, I think the difference is that if a band were to bring performers into a bar wouldn't they expect compensation? Sure they are given a platform for self-promotion but they are also providing an asset to the bar owner. That doesn't mean the owner needs to consult them in his business dealings, of course. Maybe that's a terrible example..Have fun poking holes in that one ;). Speaking for my own self-interest it does bother me when I see fellow creators seemingly under-valuing what they bring to the table even if this does turn out to be a fair deal.

And just to make things clear, I do not wish to shortchange the hard work that Dylan put into this site or not give credit for the improvements that have been made. As I said before, I do hope things work out to the satisfaction of everyone whether they are staying or leaving.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:19PM

Forgot Password
©2011 WOWIO, Inc. All Rights Reserved