Debate and Discussion

Today's Education of Our Youth
reconjsh at 9:44PM, March 3, 2007
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Is American education working?
Are today's youth prepared, in your opinion?
… and are we creating a generation of amoral, unethical, ignorant stumps? Or not?


Or… if you ARE “today's youth”:
Has the American education system failed you?
Are you prepared?
… and are you a generation of amoral, unethical, ignorant stumps?


If it has failed, what could/should be done?
What's wrong with it as it currently exists?
… and what can we expect from this generation?




* I'll jump in after a few posts =)
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
KomradeDave at 10:03PM, March 3, 2007
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Not working, not prepared, and yes.

I'm young, only 22, and Ive taught high schoolers who are around age 15. They grew up in the same location as me and under similar economic conditions. I believe I had a good education, I was given the foundation for science and debate, plus I can spell and use English without sounding like a six year old. In the seven years that seperate some of my students from myself I have noticed that they are less literate and less well-mannered than my class was (and we were no angels). I can see it even more, looking back at some of my Dad's papers from high school (he was in the same school system). His high school B grades were like the papers I wrote in college. I look in his yearbook and see that the majority of the students pictured are at least well kept.
I saw a teenager in church just tonight wearing ripped jeans with a wallet chain hanging down to his knees. I would've been whupped for going to school like that, let alone to church.

Of course you never really know. It's been said that every generation looks to the next with disgrace at what “kids these days” have become. In 20 years people in their 30s will be complaining that kids don't myspace enough.
Handshakes and mustaches are the only ways to know how much you can truly trust a man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:20PM
Aurora Moon at 6:29AM, March 4, 2007
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I will agree that the school system has gotten ridiclous, although for the different reasons.

I'm not one of those people who goes “what is up with those kids! I was never like that as an kid! blah blah blah.”

because I know better than to go there! because people who usually says “we never had such things happening back then!” are WRONG!

like how some people say we never had school shootings “back then”… uh, wrong.
around the 50's to the 60's if I recall on reading though the old news articles, there was an school shooting in an town, don't remember which state it was. Anyway some teenager girl came into an school full of elememary school kids, shot them all….
and she said it was because she “wanted to liven things up.”

Things were just as troublesome and just as violent. of course people fail to regonize this fact because back then, those things wasn't as reported as much in the national news, and those kind of reports were more localized…which leads to the ingorance that it “didn't just happen as much as now.”
and also the fact that people like to remember all the postive stuff over the negative stuff.
like how some adults like to ramble about how wonderful their high school years were when in reality they had an stressful time in high school… trying to find out where they fit in life, trying hard to be popular, bending in to peer pressure and having sex, etc.
that's called denial.

Moving on to the main topic….

The reason why the school system has gotten ridiclous is because of the PC-ness going on.. poltically correct, that is.
Teachers can't really fully disclpine kids as they used to, because otherwise they could get sued by “Sue-happy parents”.
The kids just say “if you do that, then I could get my parents to sue you.” and it's an very effective way to keep from getting disclpined by thier teachers.
So as an result, kids have lost respect for the school staff.
Also, it's very much harder for Teachers to just be human, and do thier job effectively because of PC adults.
nowdays the teachers now have to holdup an “stantard” which at first makes sense until you realize the ridiclous lengths that it can be taken to.

Teachers can't even have one cup of gin alone at home, because somehow that'd be sending a message to kids to drink because somehow the kids knows what the teachers do at home alone. So they can't drink, they can't smoke, etc…
Teachers can't have any kinky fetishes with thier loved ones or by themselves in thier own lives seperate from school. because… somehow the kids will find out at school, and that would be sending a message to them to be immoral, kinky fetists!
that's the kind of thing that cuts into an teacher's personal life, telling them what to do in thier off time…

and as an result, there's less teachers joining the workforce and more teachers fired.

So the end result is that you get a lot of overworked teachers who has to teach more than one different type of class… and a lot of kids in different grades too.

poltical correctness and overzealous parents combined also can ruin the quality of any classes out there.
parents can take thier kids out of any class that they disagree with, because they don't believe in thier kids learning about certain things until they're at least 17!
and so on forth…

you get the picture.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
reconjsh at 9:10AM, March 4, 2007
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Someone
Teachers can't even have one cup of gin alone at home, because somehow that'd be sending a message to kids to drink because somehow the kids knows what the teachers do at home alone. So they can't drink, they can't smoke, etc…
Teachers can't have any kinky fetishes with thier loved ones or by themselves in thier own lives seperate from school. because… somehow the kids will find out at school, and that would be sending a message to them to be immoral, kinky fetists!
that's the kind of thing that cuts into an teacher's personal life, telling them what to do in thier off time…

Remember that teacher “Tamara Hoover” who got fired (then sued and I didn't follow the story since so I don't know the outcome) because she posed in nude ART photography? I saw them… they were very tasteful and definitely art! She didn't encourage her kids to view them or even suggest that they existed (and so what if she had)… but when her kids discovered them on an art photography website, she stated that nude art was acceptable and nothing she or anyone should be embarrassed by. Well, apparently the parents/administration didn't agree. When did the human figure go from something beautiful like “Venus de Milo” or Reinhard's ‘The Bath“ to something trashy and grotesque?

This is off topic though.

Now, I admit I can’t really think of an American generation that WOULDN'T react negatively to a teacher doing even tasteful nude art… but come on! How upsurd is that?

I can tell you… my wife is a teacher. I've substitute taught as well when money got tight in my graphic design business (I'd NEVER become a full teacher though, ever!). We both interact with our local youth regularly in a variety of ways. They're the same narrow-minded, uncultured, wreckless, selfish beings that I went to high school with (and might have been myself). So at the very least, the education system has been failing for longer than ”this generation“… but it's still failing.

Now, while I agree that the past and ”our generation“ is remembered through rose colored glasses, I think that each generation is getting progressively worse because each generation raises the next.

But back on topic, I think the education system has failed long before ”teachers can't discipline anymore“. It started failing when parents stopped parenting. Teachers are there to educate… sculpt minds… embolden dreams… and not to teach children the basics of ”right and wrong" or lessons of consideration to others… which is sadly what teachers spend most of time attempting to do.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
Black_Kitty at 9:30AM, March 4, 2007
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Aurora Moon
Teachers can't even have one cup of gin alone at home, because somehow that'd be sending a message to kids to drink because somehow the kids knows what the teachers do at home alone. So they can't drink, they can't smoke, etc…
Teachers can't have any kinky fetishes with thier loved ones or by themselves in thier own lives seperate from school. because… somehow the kids will find out at school, and that would be sending a message to them to be immoral, kinky fetists!
that's the kind of thing that cuts into an teacher's personal life, telling them what to do in thier off time…

and as an result, there's less teachers joining the workforce and more teachers fired.

There are some places that require their teachers to sign contracts before being employed. Those contracts can have what is called “lifestyle clauses” and they're basically things that pertains to their lifestyle. So a teacher may be forbidden to drink or smoke and the clause would get into more details about that.

If a teacher signs a contract and does something that goes against the lifestyle clause, then they're taking a risk. I don't know how a student could possibly find out you're drinking a cup of gin alone at home. I know kids can be tricky but I've never known them to see through walls. Either that teacher is working in a very small town or those kids are abnormally talented at finding out people's personal lives. (The third option is being an idiot and advertising that you smoke/drink despite signing a contract that forbids you from doing so.)

I'm speaking of this through a Canadian perspective so things could be different in the US. But if the teacher didn't sign a contract with a lifestyle clause and they're fired for smoking or drinking (and not to excess) then the teacher can technically take them to court. Where I live, a teacher is part of a union and they're provided with legal representation should they be unfairly terminated from employment.

I think when it comes down to it, it all depends on what people see school as and what function does it serve. Is it a knowledge factory and teachers are there to cram as much knowledge as they can into students' brains so they can pass their provincial test/SATs/etc? Or is the purpose of school to prepare students to become working, functioning members of society? If so, then in what way?

Which is why I found the original post interesting. Preparation seems linked more to morality and ethics and less with experience and knowledge. Again I speak from a Canadian perspective but none of the ministry documents suggest any of this. We're not allowed to give late marks for example because that's not a measure of a student's level of understanding and knowledge of the material covered. That's a measure of their time management skills and work ethics. I know I myself was baffled by this when I first found out. How is it beneficial to my students for them to disregard a deadline anytime they want? What really threw me in a loop was the idea that a teacher is also expected to act “in loco parentis,” in place of a parent.

We're teachers, not social workers. But the job often does require teachers to play social workers. With schools that have a lot of students at-risk, that's even more prevalent. Sure you're worried about your students passing but you're also worried about whether or not they've eaten breakfast.

Anyhow, that's my little rant of the day. ^^;;;
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:24AM
ozoneocean at 9:54AM, March 4, 2007
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Black_Kitty
There are some places that require their teachers to sign contracts before being employed. Those contracts can have what is called “lifestyle clauses” and they're basically things that pertains to their lifestyle. So a teacher may be forbidden to drink or smoke and the clause would get into more details about that.
I believe that would constitute an abuse of their human rights to demand that as a condition of their employment. They could very likely take up that case with the UN court of human rights and win, (people do do that sort of thing in such situations). I'm shocked to hear that institutions feel they can be so brazen and public with such unfair labour conditions. Disgusting!
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
reconjsh at 9:56AM, March 4, 2007
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I've never heard of a lifestyle clause over here. Neither my wife or I had to sign one.

Someone
Which is why I found the original post interesting. Preparation seems linked more to morality and ethics and less with experience and knowledge.

What good is knowledge is you can't properly function within society.

I think the morality point in preparedness is here because it'd seem kids should be taught that at home but aren't. And as you pointed out: missed deadlines/tardiness, ignoring teachers, and negatively affecting other students are all by-products of poor morals and ethics. So experience and knowledge are difficult to teach/obtain without first addressing the basics of being a well-adjusted human being… which is the role of the parent.

Parents don't parent.
Teachers need to parent then.
Teachers aren't allowed to parent.
So teachers can't teach.
Administrators side with parents/students and against teachers/their peers.
We don't pay educators enough so we're not getting the most capable teacher possible. The most intelligent and capable of us go directly into our degree field and rarely teach. Why start off at 30k per year when I can make 50k starting off? Student loans, you know.

It's all messed up.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
Black_Kitty at 10:33AM, March 4, 2007
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ozoneocean
I believe that would constitute an abuse of their human rights to demand that as a condition of their employment. They could very likely take up that case with the UN court of human rights and win, (people do do that sort of thing in such situations). I'm shocked to hear that institutions feel they can be so brazen and public with such unfair labour conditions. Disgusting!

I personally doubt they would win for the simple fact that it's a contract that was signed voluntarily. Nobody forced the teacher to sign it. They could seek employment elsewhere.

Public school boards don't usually have lifestyle clauses (although I remember my associate teacher pointing out that there are certain expectations so it's not a free-for-all.) Catholic schools may but I'm not 100% certain and I've never heard of it specifically. You would be expected to be a practicing Catholic though to teach in the Catholic school boards however and that in itself comes with certain lifestyle expectations.

reconjsh: I do agree with the majority of the things you've said…but in what way would that be the failure of the education system?

I don't think everything is right mind you…but I think that there's a dual expectation at work. There is the official expectation that only works out if everyone else (students, parents, administration, even the government) does their job. Then there's the expectation that applies to real life. But I think that's just the nature of the beast.

Do we want the education system to teach students about morality? If so, whose morality should we be teaching? Whose ethics? If my purpose in the future is to teach kids morality and ethics but the ministry and administration doesn't officially support that, then what am I really expected to do?

(And I don't know if it's relevant but I'm Catholic but I'm hoping to teach at a public school this fall.)
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:24AM
reconjsh at 10:37AM, March 4, 2007
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We're not allowed to give late marks for example because that's not a measure of a student's level of understanding and knowledge of the material covered. That's a measure of their time management skills and work ethics.

You give marks for completeness, right? So you're not allowed to assign deadlines for measure of completeness?

Seems like a system for failure.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
reconjsh at 10:40AM, March 4, 2007
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I guess you're right. The “school system” hasn't failed kids. Rather, society has failed kids and thus the school has no choice but to fail.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
Aurora Moon at 10:40AM, March 4, 2007
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Black_Kitty
There are some places that require their teachers to sign contracts before being employed. Those contracts can have what is called “lifestyle clauses” and they're basically things that pertains to their lifestyle. So a teacher may be forbidden to drink or smoke and the clause would get into more details about that.
I believe that would constitute an abuse of their human rights to demand that as a condition of their employment. They could very likely take up that case with the UN court of human rights and win, (people do do that sort of thing in such situations). I'm shocked to hear that institutions feel they can be so brazen and public with such unfair labour conditions. Disgusting!

my thoughts exactly.

and Black kitty, I was mostly joking about the kids finding out. you know, I was pretty much mocking the school staff/other adults such as parents who actually thinks that what an teacher does in his/her alone time such as having an glass of gin would somehow affect the kids in an super dramatic way. and those same people also seems to think that kids can seem to see though walls and so on forth.

did you hear about the male teacher who got tired just because he liked to wear female silk underwear? it wasn't like he made it public or exposed that underwear habit to his students… he'd just wear that under his normal clothes on his days off and nobody would had been the wiser for it if it wasn't for the fact that the teacher went though an breakup and his ex-girlfriend humiliated him by making that public.

Somehow the school staff took wind of that, and fired him… and the kids didn't even know he was into that kind of thing until after the court hearings when the now ex-teacher took the school to court. by then it was in the local newspaper. this was a couple of years back, I think.

I remember thinking that I found the whole thing stupid. who cares what kind of underwear he likes to wear on HIS DAYS OFF? he didn't involve any students in his little fetish at all, and he did his job rather effectively from what I hear.
firing him over a little thing like that?

there's schools out there that'll fire any teacher for the smallest things like that even if they didn't make the teachers sign ANY contract on lifestyles or whatever. in fact, majority of schools here does not have any “lifestyle contract” at all for teachers to sign, yet they will fire teachers regardless.

So if I was to become an teacher, but on my days off I liked to do some kinky bondage with my boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever… if the school staff finds out, I'm fired… just like that? even though I had not involved any students in that private part of my life at all, or much less encouraged them to engage into that kind of thing. and I did my job well as an teacher, etc.. kept my private life and my job seperate….

then how is that my fault? it's the damn school's fault for making the private life and the job become one and the same! butting their business into teachers' private lives when it's none of their business.

and thier reasoning is that somehow the kids will find out! oh no, if the kids finds out what thier teachers does behind closed doors it's the end of the world!!!!

and I agree, there's a lot of “parents” that shouldn't be parents, conidsering how competely stupid they act.
sometimes I wish there was some kind of test people had to take before they could become parents.
like this:
TEST
Parents to be, when you need some time to yourself, what do you do?
——————-
A. I put the kids in front of the TV or comptuer and let them do whatever they want or whatever they want to watch. it keeps them occupied for long periods of time giving me some time off to have some relaxation! Then later on I'll complain to the TV stations and to the website adimns if I find out they've been viewing/doing anything inapporate. And maybe if I feel that isn't enough, I'll even make an oragnization that's against TV/Videogames/Comptuers! it's never my fault at all. I'm always a good parent.

B.Just let them run around without surpservion at all, while I sit at home relaxing watching TV or being on the comptuer. or something else that I find relaxing. being an parent is SOOO tough!

C. Call for an babysitter. But not just an babysitter. I'll check his/her background and refferences throughly to make sure that they wouldn't do anything inapporate.

D. Call in favor to an relative such as your mother to watch after your kids for a while.
—————————
Answer:
If you picked A, your heart's in the right place, but you went about it in the competely wrong way, and what's worse, you competely deny your own responsblity as an parent, and put the blame on something else if something is to go wrong at all! the fact that you can be called an parent is highly questionable.

If you picked B… what the fuck is wrong with you?! you shouldn't ever be an parent at all! you should have your tubes tied or have an vamesctomy! you don't even care at all, do you? at least people who went for “A” at least pretends like they care and is trying.
people who picks C and D is at least trying thier best to be parents.

something like that. (just see that whole test thing I typed up as an kind of joke, my way of mocking the people who would actually go for A and B )
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last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
ozoneocean at 10:41AM, March 4, 2007
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Simply the fact that they have to give up personal freedoms totally unrelated to their job as a condition of employment would be enough to win it for them, voluntary or not. Much lessor cases than this hypothetical one have been won.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
Black_Kitty at 10:51AM, March 4, 2007
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reconjsh
You give marks for completeness, right? So you're not allowed to assign deadlines for measure of completeness?

Seems like a system for failure.

Oh we can give deadlines.

I'm slightly simplifying things for the sake of keeping this from being a rambling post but there's three things worth keeping in mind:

1. I am allowed to set deadlines. An incomplete work though would not be assigned a mark of zero though but a N/A or something equivalent. A mark of zero suggest that the student demonstrated zero understanding of the material which isn't true since all the student really demonstrated was a lack of work ethics.

2. I am suppose to offer them plenty of feedback and chances to act upon those feedback.

3. Some school boards do have a policy of late marks. If I happen to work for one of those school boards and a parent comes up to me complaining about late marks, I can say it's school policy. So that will be something they take up with the school board. In the meantime, Billy gets 10% off because his assignment is late.

Keep in mind that I'm just a student teacher. So what I say may not reflect the actual practice of a practicing teacher. But just because I'm not allowed to give late marks doesn't mean I can't work my way around things.
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:24AM
reconjsh at 10:58AM, March 4, 2007
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So kids can just blow off an assignment and accept a NA instead of a 0? Are you allowed to set up course requirements? If they don't do the assigned requirements, do they become 0s? Or would the student simply get a incomplete for the course instead of a failing grade? What if a student did only one assignment and showed 100% understanding? Probably not, but could they get a 100% for the course then on the one graded things?


I think understanding shouldn't be the only thing graded unless that's the only thing teachers are expected to teach kids. We both know that's not the case, but if it is, then the kids that refuse to understand by not doing homework, assignments, or acting poorly in class should just be sent home.

I kind of like that system. Choose success or choose not to be at school and be a bum the rest of your life. We'd have ALOT of bums then though, huh?
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
Black_Kitty at 11:41AM, March 4, 2007
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reconjsh
So kids can just blow off an assignment and accept a NA instead of a 0? Are you allowed to set up course requirements? If they don't do the assigned requirements, do they become 0s? Or would the student simply get a incomplete for the course instead of a failing grade? What if a student did only one assignment and showed 100% understanding? Probably not, but could they get a 100% for the course then on the one graded things?

I think I am allowed to set up course requirements. It would really depend on the school and what the head of department does.

What my AT did in my last practicum was turn all the N/As into marks of zeros for the mid-term report cards. That usually scares the stuffings out of the kids. The zeros in the end are N/As though but she (and another teacher I've talked to during a workshop on assessment) felt that it's not beneficial for students to get N/A marks so early in the term. They hand in one assignment out of six, get 90%, and then think they're doing very well come mid-term report cards because they got 90%. But the reality is that they didn't do the majority of the work and there's simply no way you can pass a course by doing one assignment out of ten (or whatever number.)

But for sure they cannot pass a course on one 100% assignment alone. But I suspect different teachers/schools have different ways of handling it. The guy who did the workshop I was in told us that his way was to structure the course so that students had to demonstrate a level of understanding for all the materials covered in the course. So if they did say, 5/10 of the assigned work but got 100%, then they've only demonstrated a level of understanding for half of the materials covered in the course. Therefore, the maximum they could get is 100% of 50%.

There are also little things like students not being allowed to contact their teacher in August about work that they finally completed in September. There is a deadline at some point. After all, I do plan on retiring one day.

I should ask someone about the “incomplete for the course instead of a failing grade” question. My gut instinct says yes but I want to make sure.

I think understanding shouldn't be the only thing graded unless that's the only thing teachers are expected to teach kids. We both know that's not the case, but if it is, then the kids that refuse to understand by not doing homework, assignments, or acting poorly in class should just be sent home.

I kind of like that system. Choose success or choose not to be at school and be a bum the rest of your life. We'd have ALOT of bums then though, huh?

There's actually four requirements that the ministry set up but I put in understanding because I didn't want to get into ministry documents on a Sunday afternoon. Also my understanding is that the documents are being updated so next year it could be different. But the four categories in the achievement chart are: knowledge/understanding, thinking/inquiry, communication, and application.

And yeah, we would have a lot of “bums.” :S

ozoneocean
Simply the fact that they have to give up personal freedoms totally unrelated to their job as a condition of employment would be enough to win it for them, voluntary or not. Much lessor cases than this hypothetical one have been won.

I wish, I wish, I wish I took notes during that time I learned about the lifestyle clause. But by then I was tired and I just went through a whole day of workshops.

People have lost court cases because of contracts like that. It's a contract. A person has set up a condition for employment and you've agreed to it through a contract. To be honest, I don't know why anyone would sign a contract they disagree with. It seems like such a bad idea to sign something thinking you can later argue that it's against your personal freedom so therefore it doesn't count. This would be especially true if that contract existed for a private school who have their own set of values and have therefore put in that clause so as to employ similar minded individuals to teach at that school.

Aurora Moon: All I can say is that if you're working in an Ontario school board in Canada, you cannot be fired for things you do in your own personal time that is legal. So wearing women's underwear? That's fine. Having a previous career as a legal porn star? Fine. Writing anti-semitic slogans and talking about how the Holocaust is a staged event designed to be a major guilt trip? Not fine since that's against the law.

Mind you it doesn't stop people from making certain decisions and it's not right to be fired for something that's perfectly harmless and does not interfere with the quality of your job…but people make poor decisions all the time.

I know it's not a satisfactory answer but really, what else is there to say?
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:24AM
reconjsh at 12:03PM, March 4, 2007
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The real failure here is motivation. Our society doesn't value education and intelligence… it values entertainment. And until we instill within children the value of education, we're never going to be motivated to succeed. No amount of funding, doctrinal shift, standards, etc is going to be a complete or effective remedy. Parents have the cure though: be a f-ing parent, not just a passive participant in a young person's life. Good parents can be a kids friends… but good parents don't have to be.

Why is this not an important value? I don't know for sure. You get rich for being entertaining… rarely for being smart and in this unbalanced captiolism, money is the only real important commodity? Parents don't bother to educate/guide their children, and teachers can't be expected to burdon the entire load of parenting/role-modeling. Since we value entertainment so highly, children seem to expect all of their lives to be entertaining or it's not important.

You mentioned what standard of “ethics” and whose ethics would we teach? Good question. Not sure. We could start by “respect other people enough to allow them room to learn”. If you value other peoples' need to learn, then you won't act up in class and disrespect educators because doing so would be contrary to that value. So at the very least, we could educate the kids who valued education and the others wouldn't be in the way. If only this, at a minimum, was the case.

And how about the ethic: “It's unethical to remain ignorant and uneducated.” Your ignorance, lack of knowledge, selfishness and lack of will to act kills people.

Or what about: “simple, universal right and wrong”? Surely we can agree there's at least a few universal right and wrongs?

I guess I'm have a difficult time accentuating my general frustration with society as a whole. Seriously, we suck.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 1:36PM, March 4, 2007
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reconjsh
Or… if you ARE “today's youth”:
Has the American education system failed you?
Are you prepared?
… and are you a generation of amoral, unethical, ignorant stumps?

No.
Yes.
Yes, but I'm not one of them.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Priest_Revan at 1:50PM, March 4, 2007
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Compared to other countries, yes, America's school system has failed pretty badly. America already has some of the highest drop-out rates in the world. Honestly, I think school kids have it too easy these days. We need to up our school system to that of better school systems… like Japan's school system.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:48PM
Aurora Moon at 2:00PM, March 5, 2007
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ian_feverdream
No longer being a youth, I cannot directly answer. But when I was in High School back in the early 80s, in the “fine” rural Oregon school system, I found out that my freshman English teacher had been dumbing down her curriculum for the last 20 years. She said that we couldn't handle, do work at the same level as kids from 20 years back. Maybe we would have fallen on our face, but maybe we would have risen to the challenge. But she didn't even give us the opportunity to try. So if that trend has continued, and I don't see a reason why it wouldn't, I can imagine the school system is in shambles.

yeah, I had the same thing happening to me when I went to this boarding school like 13 years ago…

and sometimes I'd notice that the teachers were giving us quizzes and what not that was way TOO easy…. stuff that would had been done by 4th graders they were giving us in 7th grade.
and when I asked some of the teachers about it, they were like: “Oh, I don't think you could handle the harder stuff!!”

Made me so mad. but that was why I hated school as an result. they made everything too easy, so there was no moviation and plus it made everything SO BORING.

it seems that teachers seems to be treating the students like dumb little animals that couldn't handle anything complicated and harder than the easy stuff.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
LIZARD_B1TE at 4:30PM, March 5, 2007
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reconjsh
… and are you a generation of amoral, unethical, ignorant stumps?

Yes
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:36PM
Priest_Revan at 5:08PM, March 5, 2007
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LIZARD_B1TE
reconjsh
… and are you a generation of amoral, unethical, ignorant stumps?

Yes

^What he said.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:48PM
Kristen Gudsnuk at 6:07PM, March 5, 2007
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hm… I think I got a really good education! And all of my high school friends except for one are going to college and doing well. Maybe it's because I'm from Connecticut? I think our school systems are better than a lot of the ones in the country. Also, maybe it's because my friends were all in honors and AP classes with me, so of course none of us dropped out.
I've had some terrible teachers, to be sure, but they were all in unimportant subjects like Math and Science (heh! that's mild sarcasm!). But I've also had some great teachers that helped foster my abilities.
Actually, I found high school to be a lot harder than college. And I'm going to a slightly fancypants university. Grade inflation is even more aggravated in college than it is in high school.
The thing is, public education is what you make of it. I find it kind of preposterous to suggest that generations before us were smarter, or more motivated. A teacher who dumbs down his or her material is only doing a disservice to students, and propagating the illiteracy and poor education that he or she is bemoaning in the first place.
I may be biased because my mother is a teacher (and an excellent one at that!) But still, it's not like humanity is suddenly getting dumber. I think in psychology we learned that people's IQ scores have been getting higher? Something about a bell curve..?
But the thing is, as time goes on, knowledge is becoming a lot more niche-like; people are becoming well-learned in specific subjects, rather than 3 r's. (reading, ‘riting, and ’rithmatic! heeh!) I guess the question is: is knowing a lot about one subject in particular better than having a vague understanding of lots of different subjects?

I think that for things to advance, such specialization is necessary; it's a sign of societal prosperity!
(did that make any sense?)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 1:45PM, March 6, 2007
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The school system seems fine to me. You know, the one who actually goes there and has it fresh in his mind. The unmotivated students is the real issue.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Vagabond at 9:59PM, March 6, 2007
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Priest_Revan
We need to up our school system to that of better school systems… like Japan's school system.

Yes, because saying that a student doesn't need to learn/attend, that the teacher cannot discipline them, and that they get to go to high school no matter how little work they do really sets a good example. : P

It's a matter of motivation, I think. That, and maybe the “No Child Left Behind.” I've heard that's pretty bad when it actually comes down to it. Then again, I don't know enough about it to have a real definitive opinion.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:38PM
reconjsh at 11:06PM, March 6, 2007
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Vagabond
Priest_Revan
We need to up our school system to that of better school systems… like Japan's school system.

Yes, because saying that a student doesn't need to learn/attend, that the teacher cannot discipline them, and that they get to go to high school no matter how little work they do really sets a good example. : P

It's a matter of motivation, I think. That, and maybe the “No Child Left Behind.” I've heard that's pretty bad when it actually comes down to it. Then again, I don't know enough about it to have a real definitive opinion.

No Child Left Behind was actually really great conceptually. Most teachers, administrators, and politicians will agree with that. It demanded that schools have highly qualified professionals and that the schools show improvement and results in education.

One problem with it was that the Federal Gov put all these new rules and expectations on education and schools, but didn't provide any means of funding it. They left this up to the states who then left it up to the districts who then left it up to the individual schools. So the fed gov started dishing out funding penalities for non compliance when really the schools couldn't possibly comply without robbing a bank. So it made matters worse.

It basically said: “Here is what's wrong with the American schools. Fix it. Oh, and make all these changes now without any additional money.”

Since the new policy rewarded results and penalized failures, it motivated schools to manipulate results. It also created a snow ball effect. Schools that don't perform get less money leading them to perform even lower and then the get even less money, etc… With initial proper funding, this probably would all have been avoided.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:02PM
7384395948urhfdjfrueruieieueue at 4:59PM, March 7, 2007
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The No Child Left Behind plan is more retarded than the students it's aimed at. However, I think I finally figured it out. Republicans know that it's impossible to have mentally retarded children preform at the same level as functioning children. They also know that private schools don't normally accept these children. This improves private school ratings which makes more children go there which makes more religiously educated children which results in more Republican voters.
i will also like to know you the more
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:03AM
Black_Kitty at 10:20PM, March 8, 2007
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This is a question directed to people who felt that their classes was too easy because their teacher dumbed everything down…

Out of curiosity, were you the only student that found it easy or was everyone finding the material easy?

I've been trying to figure out how to handle this English class for my practicum lately and it's a bit challenging. On one hand, I want to give materials that I feel would fit into a senior English class. On the other hand, I've just finished marking the grammar handout I gave them and some of them corrected “possible!!!1” as “possible!!!one”

And I just want to say that for the record, these are not stupid students. There could be a variety of reasons why they wrote what they wrote for their handout. There could be learning disabilities. I could be unclear in my instruction. Or they could be a bunch of smartasses.

But yeah, was it easy for everyone too?
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:24AM
Aurora Moon at 1:52AM, March 9, 2007
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Black_Kitty
This is a question directed to people who felt that their classes was too easy because their teacher dumbed everything down…

Out of curiosity, were you the only student that found it easy or was everyone finding the material easy?

well, it was a long time ago…

but yeah, everyone else found it easy too. you see, there was only like 4 people in my class, all girls counting myself.
two of them were my best friends, and the other one.. well.. she was an class associate that's all I can say about her.

they didn't complain about it though, because apparently it just meant less effort and stress for them to have easy homework and easy classes. they didn't really take it seriously at all.
it bored the hell out of me though.
I'm on hitatus while I redo one of my webcomics. Be sure to check it out when I'n done! :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:09AM
subcultured at 3:05PM, March 9, 2007
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it would be kinda funny if your students happen to stumble on this thread
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:01PM
Black_Kitty at 6:18PM, March 9, 2007
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Well they'll have to figure out who I am first. ^^;;;

Although to be honest, if I suspect at all that my students would see this I wouldn't have said a word. But I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't stumble onto DD and figure out who I am.

And thanks for answering Aurora Moon. :)
  
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:24AM

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