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Tokyo Vs. Disney
jalford at 1:48AM, April 3, 2006
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See what the Tokyo governor has to say about the Big M!

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060402-080515-9771r
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
ozoneocean at 3:04AM, April 3, 2006
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Yeah, he's right. Micky is a joke. That's why we use “Micky Mouse” to describe anything that's done badly; “A Micky Mouse operation”, “This (thing) is Micky Mouse” :lol:

Describing Anime as featuring “Busty heroines” though is like saying “Hollywood makes good films” -It does, but That's not realy one of its main aspects….
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
isukun at 6:50AM, April 3, 2006
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I can't really say I agree with Ishihara. Mickey Mouse was designed as an animation character back in 1928. Considering the limits of the medium at the time and what other artists were doing, Mickey was a pretty original and interesting character. The Japanese at the time were still experimenting with their own comics and animation. While some animation strayed from the Western mold, most was simply cheap rip-offs of established characters in the West.

Although Mickey has gone through some changes since 1928, the basic design of a character generally stays the same over the years. To compare him to modern day anime characters is kind of like comparing Felix the Cat to Spawn.

I see the writer for the United Press who reported on this took a little offense at the comment, though. “Japanese anime, the highly detailed cartoons that feature busty girls with big blue eyes” is hardly an objective statement. Besides, why do we care what Shintaro Ishihara has to say anyway? He's not an animator, he's just a Japanese nationalist who hates America. Why should anyone expect him to say something good about an American cultural icon?

.: isukun :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
Hawk at 7:37AM, April 3, 2006
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I have all sorts of respect for Walt's accomplishments and creations. I think Ishihara's ignorant.

I heard Osamu Tezuka (Astroboy, Kimba, Black Jack) got his inspiration from Walt Disney himself, and Tezuka's regarded as the grandfather of anime.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
ozoneocean at 8:20AM, April 3, 2006
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Yeah, created back in 1928… But he still characterises a lot of what Disney has produced since then (not all cetaianly). Not only that, but they continue to use him. Besides, bigoted nationalist though he may be, he's only using Micky as an example, a representative. He has a right to his opinions on the subject.
I wouldn't call him an idiot for saying what he said there!
Now maybe if he said that anime was best described as “highly detailed cartoons that feature busty girls with big blue eyes”, I'd call him an idiot.
Or maybe if he'd been quoted as saying that all American Chartoons were just like Mickey mouse, then he'd be an ignorant fool… but he didn't.

It comes down to some cheap jounalist trying to stir up peoples feelings over something rather booring and you guys taking offense, just like you're supposed to. :P

-On a further note though, I'd say that Felix the cat as a character, (if not the animation) trounces Micky in quality and style, he even stands up to later stuff like Spawn. Just my opinion…
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
isukun at 10:05AM, April 3, 2006
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I wouldn't call him an idiot for saying what he said there!

I wasn't calling him an idiot, I just don't value the opinion of someone who is openly hostile towards anything American when it comes to offering objective observations on differences between anime and Western cartoons. This is a guy who equates Mickey Mouse with WWII planes strafing children, after all.

It comes down to some cheap jounalist trying to stir up peoples feelings over something rather booring and you guys taking offense, just like you're supposed to.

I was just pointing out how meaningless the comment was. If there was more to this to put the quote in some form of context, I might take it more seriously and actually care about what was said, but as it stands in that article, it's just Ishihara taking another jab at the Americans. That's hardly newsworthy.

.: isukun :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
isukun at 12:19PM, April 3, 2006
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Is it just me or is Isukun talking like he came home one night to find Mickey in bed with his wife.

Like I did or Ishihara did? I haven't said anything bad about Mickey.

And is it just me, or does this board need some moderation?

.: isukun :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
Eggbert at 12:24PM, April 3, 2006
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I really does.

I suggest myself. Seriously. Since HPK has left this earth or something.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:19PM
Chameloncholic at 2:42AM, April 4, 2006
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I'll second Eggbert or Isukun. Overall I think we need a mod recruitment drive. I'm getting a bit fed up with the direction this board is taking in general.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:39AM
Whiskers at 10:35AM, April 4, 2006
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>.> *slaps Poisoned and drags him back into Top Drawer* Kain never really ventured out of Top Drawer to be the troll, he stuck in there with us…

Now let's leave the nice boys to have their talk, mmkay?
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:48PM
Terminal at 5:02PM, April 5, 2006
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Meh, everyone has their opinon. Though, why knock on Mickey? There's a whole bunch of other soulless cartoons created in America. :roll:

Whatever. That's what he thinks.

.: Myxomatosis :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:09PM
isukun at 10:15PM, April 5, 2006
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Mickey is a cultural icon for a country he doesn't particularly like or want to understand. Criticising Mickey in his mind is like insulting America. His “opinion” is more an excuse to prove to the world that Japan is superior in every way including the artistic quality of their cartoon characters.

.: isukun :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
ozoneocean at 2:56AM, April 6, 2006
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Blah :P
You could say that in this context he's using Micky Mouse as an example of popcultre animation that is outdated, boring, twee, kitsch, and unimaginative, and contrasting it with what is on offer at the fair.

That's a perfectly sound interpretation. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and little pet peeves, especially when they are not expressed in a nasty prejudiced, bigoted, or inflammatory way, as they are in the quoted extracts of the speech.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:23PM
Thevampire_kain01 at 8:40AM, April 6, 2006
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hmmmm this would be a good fight…….
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:29PM
ccs1989 at 12:18PM, April 6, 2006
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"Tokyo's governor has condemned Mickey Mouse as inferior to Japanese anime, the highly detailed cartoons that feature busty girls with big blue eyes. "

Oh yeah, that's not a generalization at ALL. Hey, guess what everybody! Japanese anime, and EVERY SINGLE SERIES EVER MADE that can be classified as ‘japanese anime’ are all about BUSTY GIRLS WITH BIG BLUE EYES! WOW! That means like…a great portion of anime is not actually anime! Thanks United Press International!

As for what I actually have to say on this topic…whatever. I think Ishihara should realize Walt's contributions to animation in general.
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com

“If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.”
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
marine at 1:58PM, April 6, 2006
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I add the words Mc (as in McDonalds) to everything that sucks. Like McMyspace.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:51PM
hpkomic at 6:13PM, April 6, 2006
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Offending post deleted.

Sorry folks, the job has gotta come first. Eggbert's a mod though now. Likely more capable than myself, I seem to be entirely useless these days.

Aside from that, keep on topic and behave or posts will be deleted.

edit: Is it me or has this Poisoned person been a thorn in many a side as of late? PM me if you have any examples of things that need moderating in this forum, because looking through every topic with my 40k dial-up connection isn't very efficient right now. I wish Verizon would get the DSL lines installed. /end rant
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:50PM
Terminal at 7:57PM, April 6, 2006
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hpkomic
edit: Is it me or has this Poisoned person been a thorn in many a side as of late?

This thread explains all. :-)

.: Myxomatosis :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:09PM
isukun at 7:39AM, April 7, 2006
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You could say that in this context he's using Micky Mouse as an example of popcultre animation that is outdated, boring, twee, kitsch, and unimaginative, and contrasting it with what is on offer at the fair.

You could say that, but Ishihara isn't talking about what is on offer at the fair. He is talking of Japan as a whole. And as he does so, he excludes other nations from having the same level of quality seen in Japanese art. He carefully chooses his words, even in this out of context quote he is talking about the “unique sensibility that Japan has” and how “the Japanese are inherently skilled at visual expression and detailed work.” These are things he believes other cultures are not capable of. It is something unique to Japan that they just do naturally.

.: isukun :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
Whiskers at 11:00AM, April 7, 2006
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Myxomatosis
hpkomic
edit: Is it me or has this Poisoned person been a thorn in many a side as of late?

This thread explains all. :-)

Shhh!!! *hides the thread*
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:48PM
Eggbert at 12:50PM, April 7, 2006
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NOTICE: You people might as well quit posting off topic posts, cuz I'm just gonna keep deleting them.

Back on topic here, that whole article is pretty damn silly. it's extremely short and provides little to no context for what it's reporting on, as well as defining anime in a ridculously uninformed way. This Tokyo governor person seems a bit high and mighty, but without any context I don't feel like judging him based on the fact that he hates Mickey and perfers anime.

The one thing I do like about this article is that Eureka seveN won an award for being awesome! Have you people seen Eureka seveN yet? You really should! Thought you may want to avoid the dub that premeries on Adult Swim next saturday, because the voices seem to be awful, as well as contradictory to the character's intended personalities.

Aside from that, it's awesome!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:19PM
Eggbert at 12:22AM, April 8, 2006
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Do we not have attractive actresses starring in our american movies? It's silly to generalize any genre with such a narrow statement.

Also, most of those girls weren't even blond.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:19PM
isukun at 1:31AM, April 8, 2006
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Plus I can think of several series without particularly busty women in them. Bincho-tan, Samurai 7, Tokyo Godfathers, Narue no Sekai, and Now and Then, Here and There come to mind. Looking over at the shoujo side of things, there are quite a few which focus more on masculine sexuality than feminine.

Also, every series mentioned by Tater Salad targets a male audience. Go figure a series aimed at teen or adult males would feature well endowed women.

.: isukun :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
Gibbo at 3:10AM, April 8, 2006
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You could also take the more realistic anime movies into consideration… stuff like Perfect Blue, where they certainly don't try to have disproportioned females everywhere.

Come to think of it, what about all the Miyazaki films?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM
isukun at 9:21AM, April 8, 2006
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He directed a movie and a few episodes in the second series, but the characters are not his. And even in the small portion of the series he did work on, the caracters were pretty conservative. Fujiko wasn't really turning on the heat in Castle of Cagliostro and the only original female character looked much younger.

Miyazaki tends to focus on younger characters. Although he often has characters who are more busty, they are usually a symbol of maternity and not sexuality.

.: isukun :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:03PM
Jillers at 10:25AM, April 8, 2006
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Seems to me a lot of people are taking offense that the reporter generalized anime visuals, and very little offense the Ishihara generalizing all of Ameirca.
But, I want to point out - how many anime series that come over to America and get dubbed are not aimed at a teenage make audience (besides the ones not aimed at a general young audience, such as Pokemon)?
They're both guilty of generalization, though I prefer the reporter's generalization, as I don't think he had anything more to go on than what the anime that has become americanized.

I mean, the other generalization that oculd be made is that anime features overly effeminate men - and that would be the anime aimed at girls.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:08PM
Eggbert at 10:49AM, April 8, 2006
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Honestly I think the reporter could have just written ‘japanese anime“ or ”anime“ or ”japanese animation". He didn’t have to make a generalization at all. Just saying that it was japanese would have been enough to differentiate it from american cartoons and by association, Mickey Mouse. Mentioning that anime contains some busty blue eyed women was unnecessary.

But yes, the generalization made by the reporter and the one made by Isihara are both pretty ignorant/insulting/uniformed.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:19PM
Gibbo at 3:06PM, April 8, 2006
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Hehe, quite religious aren't yeh XD
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:35PM
Terminal at 4:01PM, April 8, 2006
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Everything has generalizations, the xbox is big, rap is crap, nintendo makes kiddy games, windows sucks, iMacs make you gay, hackers are the same as crackers, and anime has that.

Everyone goes on what another says like sheep. Only without a soul.

All reporters do that, they are people. Not some machine. er..Wait, more like a machine, sorry about the mix up.

.: Myxomatosis :.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:09PM
Whiskers at 4:09PM, April 8, 2006
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Tater Salad
Jesus guys, it was a joke, lighten up.

Christ.

XD I don't understand why you and Poisoned like to post here when Isukun ‘n them start up. It’s like the ‘grown up’ and the ‘kid’ tables at Thanksgiving.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:48PM

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